Spelunkers Explore Crystalline Cave In New Mexico

onehitwonder writes "New Mexico cavers have set foot — for the first time ever — on a 'river' of tiny, white calcite crystals covering a four-mile stretch of the floor of the Fort Stanton Cave in New Mexico. The privileged few spelunkers who have explored the 'Snowy River' formation say they've seen nothing like it. Not only is Snowy River exquisite, it is also home to some three dozen species of microbes previously unknown to man."

Comments

Judging by the picture...

[Adreno]

... this isn't a cave at all, but a well-crafted hoax by some cauliflower farmers!

Beware

[mazarin5]

Beware of the Vril

Not spelunkers but cavers

[Anonymous Coward]

(USA-specific?) Cavers are low impact and responsible. "Spelunker" is considered derogatory, reserved for yahoos.

Re:Not spelunkers but cavers

[Spy der Mann]

(USA-specific?)

Cavers are low impact and responsible. "Spelunker" is considered derogatory, reserved for yahoos.

Did you notice where TFA was?

Re:Not spelunkers but cavers

[Hairy Heron]

No, the word is of Greek origin. It's not the fault of the USA if your country uses the word contrary to it's origin meaning.

Main Entry: spelunker Listen to the pronunciation of spelunker Pronunciation: \spi-l-kr, sp-\ Function: noun Etymology: Latin spelunca cave, from Greek splynx; akin to Greek splaion cave Date: 1942 : one who makes a hobby of exploring and studying caves

Damaging a new find

[Walking The Walk]

The real attraction, though, is under their shoes.

If these crystals have never been observed before, shouldn't they be observing instead of walking on them?

Protect the cave system

[Red Flayer]

Areas of Fort Stant on Cave are open to those who get permits from the BLM, but Snowy River -- deep in the cave behind locked metal gates -- is off-limits. It's unlikely Snowy River ever will be open to anything but research because of the fragility of the tiny calcite crystals and microbes on the cave walls.

Ahh, I love the irony in the last paragraph of the article. Most of the article seems to be dedicated to lauding those who have walked on the Magical Mystery Floor of iCalcite Crystals... those who have obviously brought their foreign microbes to the fragile ecosystem...

My question is, why is the Bureau of Land Management allowing *anyone* to disturb the system if it's so fragile? Why not send light-weight robots that have been disinfected? It's not like we don't have the technology.

Oh yeah... something in the article about practicing for Europa and Mars exploration. Puh-leeze. Robotic exploration is how we'll explore Mars, even if we put people there. Ditto for Europa. Human life, sent millions and millions of miles, is too precious to risk on non-Earth spelunking.

Re:Protect the cave system

[vux984]

Human life, sent millions and millions of miles, is too precious to risk on non-Earth spelunking.

As a representative of human life, I hereby volunteer to take that chance. I thin if you put the word out, people would be lined up around the block.

Re:Protect the cave system

[AllIGotWasThisNick]

too precious

Ok, more like too fragile/needy.

Re:Protect the cave system

[belmolis]

It is likely that they have considered what is likely to disturb the ecology of the cave and what is not. The area has apparently never been completely isolated, and more recently people have been allowed to visit the main portion of the cave. It is therefore likely that the relatively minor bacterial contamination from the exposed faces and breath of the explorers is not considered dangerous. What is probably more important is not allowing large numbers of people to stomp around, break things, leave trash, and change the temperature, humidity, and gas composition by their body heat and exhalations.

Re:Protect the cave system

[plasmacutter]

Human life, sent millions and millions of miles, is too precious to risk on non-Earth spelunking.

And this mentality is why we will not leave this planet until the second age of man, after the over-protective ninnies have been killed off in pillars of nuclear fire.

Human life is precious, but the reason we have tamed frontiers right now is because before the mid 20'th century, it was also considered expendable for the greater good and survival of the species.

If there are people willing and eager to go to these places, our society should enable them. They could die, sure, and relieve some of our population, and they could also do great things, expanding our horizons, resources, and habitable areas.

Re:Protect the cave system

[DerekLyons]

Robotic exploration is how we'll explore Mars, even if we put people there.

 
Given that a human geologist can accomplish in a month what it has take both Spirit and Opportunity years to do... Why would use robots when we send people?
 
 

Human life, sent millions and millions of miles, is too precious to risk on non-Earth spelunking.

What codswallop. Human life precious? There's billions of us, and many more each day, 99.99% of which accomplish little more than 'birth, school, work, death'. A single life risked in remote exploration accomplishes more than all those 99.99% combined.
 
 

My question is, why is the Bureau of Land Management allowing *anyone* to disturb the system if it's so fragile? Why not send light-weight robots that have been disinfected? It's not like we don't have the technology.

Actually, we don't have the technology - robots capable of exploration are heavy and have short operating times (think tens of yards) without being even larger and heavier to carry sufficient batteries or dragging an umbilical cable behind to provide power.

Re:Protect the cave system

[drwho]

I wholeheartedly agree. Luckily, many of these people "don't believe in guns", and will be killed by those who do.

Re:Protect the cave system

[Eivind]

Because putting a human geologist on mars for a month would cost several orders of magnitude more than having spirit and opportunity there for years ?

A human would need water,air,food,waste-management for the duration of the entire mission. And he'd need a method of -returning- from mars (suicide-mission would be politically unfeasible), which makes the entire thing a LOT more complicated than it is sending a robot.

Yes. A geologist with adequate equipment is MUCH more effective and versatile than one of these robots. But putting one there would also be MUCH more expensive, so it would be unlikely to actually make economical sense in the near future.

Re:Protect the cave system

[jonnythan]

The "crystal" in this cave isn't super-exquisite, fragile crystal glass. It's not the Fortress of Solitude or anything. It's just white calcite. There's calcite all over caves all over the world. The stuff is essentially rock.

The distinguishing features here are that there's so much of it on the floor, as opposed to the wall and ceiling, and that it was mostly unadulterated by sediment during its formation and is therefore a snowy white instead of brown.

The stuff isn't exactly fragile. Bacteria from shoes aren't going to ruin it, but hundreds or thousands of feet walking upon it will physically erode it.

Crystal Skulls?

[AmonEzhno]

I assume the government has made the right choice and sent Indiana Jones in? You know, him having the most experience in matters of crystalline archaeological matters.

The common sense questions:

[Fluffeh]

From the article

It took several months for Snowy River to dry out, leaving scientists with another set of questions about where the water came from and where it went.

Well, it came in at one end of the cave, likely uphill from the other end. It then made it's way through the cave that is at the center of this puzzlement. Amazingly, and rather surprisingly it went out the other end of the cave, downhill from the aforementioned uphill part of the cave. That's also the opposite direction of where it came from. Next question please.

I guess nobody has noticed

[belmolis]

I guess nobody else has noticed it so I will be the first to point out that this cave is just outside of Roswell. Need we say more?

Real Full Headline

[mdm42]

"Spelunkers Explore Crystalline Cave in New Mexico; A Hollow Voice Says 'plugh'."

Re: Why not send light-weight robots?

[Talkischeap]

"Why not send light-weight robots that have been disinfected? It's not like we don't have the technology.

You obviously aren't a caver, and have never been deep in a "wild" cave.

Perhaps you think that caves have BIG "Hollywood" entrances, and have floors that are boulevard flat, and perhaps there is a little "ambient" light like in caves in the movies.

I can safely say that there is currently no robot in existence that can fully navigate most caves (worth exploring) on the planet.

Perhaps small portions of a few, but not deep into them.

I've been exploring in caves where I'm literally two hours from the entrance, and a 150 foot climb up a rope to exit the cave, yet I'll squeeze through a body tight hole just to see where it "goes".

So I'll exhale and push forward an inch, and then do it again, and repeat until I'm through.

And then after exploring around I have to come back through, but a robot would have been stopped by this "tight spot".

Cavers sometimes need to "move rocks" to progress down the (hopefully virgin) cave passage, and I can't see any cave navigable robot being able to move a 100 pound rock, let alone the hundreds of pounds of rock like I've moved many times in less sensitive caves.

Many "serious" caves require a rope drop of a hundred feet or more to enter, and a climb to exit, and how many robots can do that?

Oh, none.

Now lets talk energy... it takes a great deal of energy to navigate a cave environment, and unless you have a looong extension cord no robot is going very far into any wild cave.

And nobody is going to carry a heavy robot deep into a cave so it can "scoop booty"... no way.

It may be decades before humans are replaced as cave explorers on Earth.

Mars is a different story, and all the caves targeted have huge Hollywood entrances, and the "robots" likely won't be entering very far into them at all.

And "big up" to Jim Goodbar, he took us deeeep into Cottonwood 20 years ago.

Re: Why not send light-weight robots?

[Bender0x7D1]

You're thinking of a big robot. We have also invented many types of small, flying robots that wouldn't have to walk on the floor, climb ropes or move rocks to get into a space. Sure, they can't do as much as a human, but they could take some pictures and maybe collect some samples. Even if they only have a few minutes of battery power, they could still go a lot of places that a human can't. These could easily be carried by a human into the cave and then deployed from a "forward position".