Spelunkers Explore Crystalline Cave In New Mexico

onehitwonder writes "New Mexico cavers have set foot — for the first time ever — on a 'river' of tiny, white calcite crystals covering a four-mile stretch of the floor of the Fort Stanton Cave in New Mexico. The privileged few spelunkers who have explored the 'Snowy River' formation say they've seen nothing like it. Not only is Snowy River exquisite, it is also home to some three dozen species of microbes previously unknown to man."

Comments

Judging by the picture...

[Adreno]

... this isn't a cave at all, but a well-crafted hoax by some cauliflower farmers!

Protect the cave system

[Red Flayer]

Areas of Fort Stant on Cave are open to those who get permits from the BLM, but Snowy River -- deep in the cave behind locked metal gates -- is off-limits. It's unlikely Snowy River ever will be open to anything but research because of the fragility of the tiny calcite crystals and microbes on the cave walls.

Ahh, I love the irony in the last paragraph of the article. Most of the article seems to be dedicated to lauding those who have walked on the Magical Mystery Floor of iCalcite Crystals... those who have obviously brought their foreign microbes to the fragile ecosystem...

My question is, why is the Bureau of Land Management allowing *anyone* to disturb the system if it's so fragile? Why not send light-weight robots that have been disinfected? It's not like we don't have the technology.

Oh yeah... something in the article about practicing for Europa and Mars exploration. Puh-leeze. Robotic exploration is how we'll explore Mars, even if we put people there. Ditto for Europa. Human life, sent millions and millions of miles, is too precious to risk on non-Earth spelunking.

Re:Protect the cave system

[plasmacutter]

Human life, sent millions and millions of miles, is too precious to risk on non-Earth spelunking.

And this mentality is why we will not leave this planet until the second age of man, after the over-protective ninnies have been killed off in pillars of nuclear fire.

Human life is precious, but the reason we have tamed frontiers right now is because before the mid 20'th century, it was also considered expendable for the greater good and survival of the species.

If there are people willing and eager to go to these places, our society should enable them. They could die, sure, and relieve some of our population, and they could also do great things, expanding our horizons, resources, and habitable areas.

Re:Protect the cave system

[DerekLyons]

Robotic exploration is how we'll explore Mars, even if we put people there.

 
Given that a human geologist can accomplish in a month what it has take both Spirit and Opportunity years to do... Why would use robots when we send people?
 
 

Human life, sent millions and millions of miles, is too precious to risk on non-Earth spelunking.

What codswallop. Human life precious? There's billions of us, and many more each day, 99.99% of which accomplish little more than 'birth, school, work, death'. A single life risked in remote exploration accomplishes more than all those 99.99% combined.
 
 

My question is, why is the Bureau of Land Management allowing *anyone* to disturb the system if it's so fragile? Why not send light-weight robots that have been disinfected? It's not like we don't have the technology.

Actually, we don't have the technology - robots capable of exploration are heavy and have short operating times (think tens of yards) without being even larger and heavier to carry sufficient batteries or dragging an umbilical cable behind to provide power.

The common sense questions:

[Fluffeh]

From the article

It took several months for Snowy River to dry out, leaving scientists with another set of questions about where the water came from and where it went.

Well, it came in at one end of the cave, likely uphill from the other end. It then made it's way through the cave that is at the center of this puzzlement. Amazingly, and rather surprisingly it went out the other end of the cave, downhill from the aforementioned uphill part of the cave. That's also the opposite direction of where it came from. Next question please.

Re:Not spelunkers but cavers

[Hairy Heron]

No, the word is of Greek origin. It's not the fault of the USA if your country uses the word contrary to it's origin meaning.

Main Entry: spelunker Listen to the pronunciation of spelunker Pronunciation: \spi-l-kr, sp-\ Function: noun Etymology: Latin spelunca cave, from Greek splynx; akin to Greek splaion cave Date: 1942 : one who makes a hobby of exploring and studying caves

Real Full Headline

[mdm42]

"Spelunkers Explore Crystalline Cave in New Mexico; A Hollow Voice Says 'plugh'."

Re: Why not send light-weight robots?

[Talkischeap]

"Why not send light-weight robots that have been disinfected? It's not like we don't have the technology.

You obviously aren't a caver, and have never been deep in a "wild" cave.

Perhaps you think that caves have BIG "Hollywood" entrances, and have floors that are boulevard flat, and perhaps there is a little "ambient" light like in caves in the movies.

I can safely say that there is currently no robot in existence that can fully navigate most caves (worth exploring) on the planet.

Perhaps small portions of a few, but not deep into them.

I've been exploring in caves where I'm literally two hours from the entrance, and a 150 foot climb up a rope to exit the cave, yet I'll squeeze through a body tight hole just to see where it "goes".

So I'll exhale and push forward an inch, and then do it again, and repeat until I'm through.

And then after exploring around I have to come back through, but a robot would have been stopped by this "tight spot".

Cavers sometimes need to "move rocks" to progress down the (hopefully virgin) cave passage, and I can't see any cave navigable robot being able to move a 100 pound rock, let alone the hundreds of pounds of rock like I've moved many times in less sensitive caves.

Many "serious" caves require a rope drop of a hundred feet or more to enter, and a climb to exit, and how many robots can do that?

Oh, none.

Now lets talk energy... it takes a great deal of energy to navigate a cave environment, and unless you have a looong extension cord no robot is going very far into any wild cave.

And nobody is going to carry a heavy robot deep into a cave so it can "scoop booty"... no way.

It may be decades before humans are replaced as cave explorers on Earth.

Mars is a different story, and all the caves targeted have huge Hollywood entrances, and the "robots" likely won't be entering very far into them at all.

And "big up" to Jim Goodbar, he took us deeeep into Cottonwood 20 years ago.