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Ohio Researchers Advance Heat Reclamation Technologies

Downchuck writes "Researchers at Ohio State University claim to have synthesized a new material capable of delivering electricity directly from heat, at an efficiency far better than existing thermoelectric materials. Scott at ArsTechnica has an interesting take: 'Merge this with the new MIT solar dish and you're in business!'"

15 of 124 comments (clear)

  1. Re:For those who didn't RTFA: by magus_melchior · · Score: 5, Informative

    And since I can't make hyperlinks correctly on slashdot, I'll try again: thallium.

    Nasty stuff, as its compounds are very easily absorbed through potassium uptake pathways in your body, but behave very, very differently from potassium. I seem to remember a chemist friend telling me that if you deal with thallium, you practically need an entirely separate lab for it.

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  2. Re:Technical point by cnettel · · Score: 4, Informative

    You make electricity directly from heat. You can't make electricity directly from temperature (or stored heat) though.

  3. Re:Technical point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's not possible to make electricity directly from heat. It is possible to make it from a difference in heat between two points

    heat != temperature

    But you are right that you have to have a cold reservoir to get any work from the system. But heat in thermodynamics is not the same as temperature, and it generally denotes the amount of transfered thermal energy between two systems of differing temperature.

    I'm assuming that the cold reservoir is the cooler temperature air surrounding the device.

  4. Re:So, this is a reverse peltier? by cnettel · · Score: 3, Informative
    Any Peltier element can give you power as well. The point is that even the theoretically optimal difference is totally lousy if your heat difference is somewhere like the one between water freezing and water boiling. You need a colder cold sink, or a much hotter heat source, to get some serious efficiency. RTGs tend to be quite hot in the hot end.

    This allows better RTGs, but they would only be marginally efficient for, say, reclaiming computer case waste heat. This is especially so as you can't put them on the CPU directly, where the differential is great, because they are insulating as well. You will need to put it at the radiating end, over a large surface.

  5. Re:Technical point by cool_arrow · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes that is true and I believe that the most efficient thermoelectric devices are somewhere in the range of about 5% efficiency in practical applications.

  6. Detailed Scientific Analysis Here by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Informative

    The article at the Green Car Congress site titled New Approach to Developing Thermoelectric Materials Doubles Efficiency" has a lot more scientific details than that article linked from the summary, especially on the actual formula that determines "zT", which is the thermoelectric conversion efficiency coefficient:

    The dimensionless zT for thermoelectric materials is calculated by the formula zT= T*(S2)/), where S is the thermoelectric power or Seebeck coefficient of the TE material, and are the electrical and thermal conductivities, respectively, and T is the absolute temperature.

    And also detailed nanomaterials engineering analysis of the quantum structure of the quantum chemistry's thermoelectric effects.

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  7. The comments attached to the fine article... by Horar · · Score: 4, Informative

    ... contain a link to a possibly more useful article with some more comprehensible numbers:

    http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/21125/

    e.g. The device could increase fuel efficiency of vehicles by approximately 10 percent.

  8. Re:Hot technology by sokoban · · Score: 2, Informative

    Maybe the most important point, at what cost? how rare/expensive is that new material? If is very, maybe the main use would be not for our normal lifes, but maybe for i.e. space probes.

    Lead is very cheap, Tellurium is about 20 some odd dollars per pound, but Thallium is damn expensive. In the late 90's Thallium was running about $600 per pound. That said, I'm not sure how much Thallium will be needed for this application.

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  9. Re:Technical point by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Informative

    But quadrupling them would. The old max zT these researchers were improving was about 0.87. They've now got it to about 1.5. And are targeting about 3.0 in their current research.

    Freon refrigerators have a zT of about 3.0. Which makes these new materials look directly competitive with them for cooling when they reach that efficiency. Since zT 1 materials are about 10% efficient, zT 3 will be able to reclaim about 30% of waste heat. That would be about 20 points of the ~60% of gasoline energy wasted as heat in car engines. Since car engines are about 20% efficient now, that would mean doubling their fuel efficiency.

    If these materials can be made, deployed, and recycled with close to (or less than) the energy inputs required now to make the car radiators/manifolds/exhaust systems they'd probably mostly replace, the benefits would be revolutionary.

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  10. Peltier devices work both ways by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 2, Informative

    Use power to shift heat or generate power from heat flow.

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  11. Re:Themoelectrics Already Pretty Good by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 3, Informative

    "A thermoelectric material designed to replace a conventional Freon-gas refrigerator must have a ZT of at least 3."

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  12. But how does it compare to the JTEC? by WindBourne · · Score: 2, Informative

    Johnson Thermoelectric Energy Conversion System? Seriously, this one is being developed to operate at lower temps. I wonder if this new one will work better or not? But it sure would be useful to add one (or both) of these to say power plants to absorb some of the heat and continue generating more electricity.

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  13. Re:Thallium by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 2, Informative

    my chemistry professor was trying to stick thallium atoms to a cyclopentadiene molecules for some odd reason.

    Usually when they stick goofy metals on organic compounds they intend for the metal to be replaced with some organic moiety. The metal guides the reaction so that the organic replacement attaches to the right carbon atom. Thallium cyclopentadiene is a starting material for prostaglandin synthesis. You add methoxymethyl chloride to it, and the methoxymethyl group replaces the thallium and you get methoxymethylcyclopentadiene plus thallium chloride.

    Benzoxymethylchloride works too if you want to start with benzoxymethylcyclopentadiene.

  14. Re:Technical point by Lisandro · · Score: 2, Informative

    RTGs (radioisotope thermoelectric generators) would benefit greatly from this aswell. They tend to have long life spans (in the order of the half-life of the radioactive material used), but radiation decay and thermocouple wear reduce their power output much before that.

  15. Re:Themoelectrics Already Pretty Good by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Informative

    But this new material is already projecting a zT:3 as part of their current scope of R&D.

    A Technology Review article explains that in car engines, these zT jumps deliver efficiency from the old 6%, to the new 10%, looking at 21%. So it seems that this material does quite well at that hard job.

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