How Do You Fix Education?

TaeKwonDood writes "Carl Wieman is the 2001 Nobel Prize winner in Physics but what he cares most about is fixing science education. The real issue is, can someone who went through 20 years of science education as a student, lived his life in academia since then and even got a Nobel prize get a fair shake from bureaucrats who like education the way it is — flawed and therefore always needing more money?"

Comments

Fix it at home

[teknopurge]

Get the parents more involved. For kids, school should be akin to their 9-5 job. In order to excel they need to put the time in at home, and the only people that can help instill that discipline are the parents.

Re:Fix it at home

[lgw]

"Get the parents involved" is nice, but it's also passing the buck. Plenty of parents saw no value in education in their own lives, and discourage their kids from wasting their time. That's going to take generations to fix.

Meanwhile, we can still do a better job of teaching science (mostly in making kids interested in science). Perhaps the only way to get the parents involved is to teach this generation that science isn't jsut a waste of time, so that they encourage thier kids in turn.

The simple fact is, our school system was designed originally to produce good manufacturing workers, but there's no future in manufacturing. While people have long been whining about manufacturing jobs going overseas, the truth is more jobs are lost to automation than to cheap labor pools.

We need to be training designers and engineers with the talent to compete in the world market, but our pre-college (and increasingly our undergraduate) school system still de-emphasises critical thinking and abstract problem solving. We need to recognize that these abstract skills are quite practical: they are the jobs that will exist when everything else is automated!

Re:Fix it at home

[TubeSteak]

Meanwhile, we can still do a better job of teaching science (mostly in making kids interested in science). Perhaps the only way to get the parents involved is to teach this generation that science isn't jsut a waste of time, so that they encourage thier kids in turn.

Replace science with english/history/math/social studies/foreign languages/etc etc etc and you still have the same problem.

If you don't take a holistic approach to 'fixing' education, you're just going to end up with more failure all around. To make a car analogy: you can upgrade a part (science) but when the whole car (the public education system) is beat up, you're just going to have some other part fail you.

Re:Fix it at home

[Sloppy]

"Get the parents involved" is nice, but it's also passing the buck.

No, anything other than "get the parents involved" is passing the buck.

Re:Fix it at home

[Anonymous Coward]

>Finish kids are not treated like babies as to why they can do so
>well. Most have to get to school themselves

Letting kids walk to school in the US would be cruel. Most US communities are so badly laid out that it simply is not possible to walk anywhere. It is not unusual for schools to be isolated on the wrong side of major highways, with no means for people to cross them. Until we start laying out our communities sensibly kids are going to need to be bussed (or driven) to school. It simple would not be safe to let them walk. The really scary thing is that a lot of people here think that this is a good thing

Re:Fix it at home

[AySz88]

Seems to me that "parents need to take responsibility" is all to easy to use as an excuse for the flaws in the system. At least, easier than actually trying to fix the flaws.

On the contrary, it seems to me that it's arguing that parents not being part of the system is itself a flaw of the system.

Re:Fix it at home

[Ucklak]

A generation ago, a paper route was the responsibility of the carrier (the 12 year old kid).
You made sure your subscriptions were paid and you kept track of your own money.

It seems that responsibility isn't required for anything anymore.
Look at the recent mortgage fiasco.

Re:Fix it at home

[ThousandStars]

And the usually unstated observation is that Finnish and most other European school systems have a much stronger tracking mechanism than U.S. schools--not in the sense of "knowing where the kids are," but in the sense of putting them into classes oriented towards universities or not, trade school or not, and such. As a result, kids at the lowest rungs aren't necessarily taking the tests if they've already left or enter vocational education, and the ones at the bottom aren't holding back the ones at the top.

This system has drawbacks for late-bloomers and others who are mis-tracked, but it makes schools look a hell of a lot better than the U.S. approach. The problem with comparing educational systems is that one first has to establish what you're comparing. If there were a panacea like your post implies ("Finish kids are not treated like babies"), it would've already been implemented, and the battles would be over.

We discuss some of the issues around education in Grant Writing Confidential, though the top posts are about other things at the moment.

Re:Fix it at home

[dgatwood]

Absolutely. IMHO, the biggest problem with schools is that students are assumed to be incapable of making decisions on their own, and thus, the schools treat everyone identically as though they were all of median intelligence, all had identical interests, etc. Among other things, this means that people below the median intelligence can't keep up, fall behind, and are unable to get the extra help they need, while people above the median get bored out of their minds as they have their time wasted with ten times as much homework as the other students (but always more of the same crap) just to keep them busy.

A real approach to education reform starts by recognizing that every child is different, every child has different needs, different motivating forces operating on him/her, different interests in different areas, etc., then tailoring the educational program in such a way that children of similar levels of ability and interests are grouped together. You then take it one step further and have teacher-student conferences with each student at the end of the year to find out what things the student liked and didn't like. By late elementary school, students should be helping plan their own curriculum, with core classes plus a range of optional classes that they can choose from. And so on.

It drove me nuts throughout school that I had to waste time learning the same things over and over again. I took a test and got out of U.S. history in college. It covered pretty much the same thing that we covered in U.S. history in high school, which in turn pretty much covered the same thing as U.S. history in junior high. Mindlessly repeating the same content over and over does not promote learning except for people who have trouble learning. For the rest of us, the high school class was a colossal waste of about 200 hours of my life that could have been spent learning something we hadn't already learned but for the fact that taking it was required to attend the universities.

As for choosing our curriculum, that really didn't happen until college. In high school, our choices were basically whether we took French or Spanish, whether we took an AP version of a couple of classes or not, and which science we took. To a large extent, the math curriculum was dictated by whether you took algebra in junior high or not, though there was the option of taking a year off. Not much choice, in any case---the sequence was pretty much planned out in strict order in spite of the fact that none of the higher level math courses really depended on each other beyond requiring an understanding of basic algebra. Everything else was pretty much nailed down ahead of time. You could choose which year you took the classes, but you still had a very fixed list of classes that very nearly added up to a full four years without giving you much choice in what you took. That just plain sucks.

Give students the option to be an active participant in the education process---from choosing the curriculum to leading discussions---and you will find that they are more involved, more attentive, more interested, and more capable of learning efficiently---far more so than the passive participants that today's students are forced to be.

Re:Fix it at home

[jmorris42]

> Opps we find out that we can really get by with less than
> a junior high education.

For sure. If you think making shift manager at Burger King is a career goal instead of just a waystation on a longer path..... that you achieved at 20 putting yourself through college. And I really wish we could stop the people who think a junior high education makes them ready to vote from getting near a voting booth.

In the post industrial world we are now transitioning into it is all about having a clue and being able to reason. That means you need to know things, and unless you are one of the few who can self teach themselves it means an education. Unskilled labor is just people we are keeping around because a) we haven't quite got the robots perfected yet to take over your job and b) even after the robots we will be too squemish to put 'yall down so we will give you a welfare check until you die of natural causes, which will probably be pretty early with your tendencies to unhealthy habits.

[Yes this post is borderline flamebait. But it also has some painful truth in it that will hopefully get some arguiments going.]

Re:Fix it at home

[edumacator]

I'm a public school teacher like your friend. I tend to agree. I've recently been promoted to department chair and get to see even more of the stubbornness he's feeling. Part of the problem though is the schools of education at Universities are just as flawed as the schools themselves. Many of the new methods are simply reworking of old ones that justify a PhD's dissertation.

I was (un)fortunate enough to have someone study my class for a book, because many of the things I was doing were similar to the concept she was putting forth in her book. Well, I finally got a copy of it, with the chapter marked that focused on my classroom. I'm glad she marked it because I wouldn't have recognized it if she hadn't.

She blatantly manipulated the situations in the classroom to justify her own ideas. After speaking with some professors that I trust, and to other older colleagues, I found this behavior to be rampant in educational schools.

The result, a system that doesn't trust itself. Higher learning scoffs at what is going on in the classrooms, and classroom teachers scoff at professors of education, because they are only trying to justify their own existence.

But overall your friend is right. The systems are too entrenched. Really most teachers need to learn to be reflective. If something works, keep doing it. If it doesn't, try something else, and repeat.

My favorite was when a professor taught a class on innovative teaching techniques at my grad school. He used an overhead projector and talked at us for two and a half hours...Yikes.

Re:Fix it at home

[paulgrant]

Your part of the problem. I walked to school 30 minutes each way for years. I spent 2 hours (round trip) walking to my friends house. I spent six months walking (sans car) in cali, to and from work. whats your point wanker?

it's these two funny little things at the end, called feet - they're made for walking. an no offense, but really, "It is not unusual for schools to be isolated on the wrong side of major highways" would suggest you *BUILD A BRIDGE ACROSS IT* rather than buying (and maintaining) a fleet of buses to pick up kids *twice a day*.

wake up, your part of the problem.

kids are not dolls. they never were. parents are idiots. they weren't, but now they are. Welcome to your version of education.

Re:Fix it at home

[Free the Cowards]

I'll knock it, in the sense that the grandparent is using it.

Let's say you're 18, on the vocational track of your high school, and suddenly you decide that you're actually pretty smart and you want a white-collar job and you want to go to university. Guess what? You are screwed! Forget about it. You already made that choice back when you were 16. There is no mind-changing!

Let's take France as an example, since I'm most familiar with it. If you're starting your third year of university and you decide that math is not for you and you'd rather go into engineering, guess what? Back to the end of the line! You get to start over from freshman year. Never mind that 90% of your courses would still apply. Never mind that you already know calculus backwards and forwards; take it again! You've just wasted two years of your life?

Let's say you're now 24, finished with your Master's degree and thinking about a Ph.D. You decide that it's not for you, you'd rather work. A few months later you change your mind; a professorship sounds really good! Not to worry, just apply for the Ph.D. next year, right? Wrong! You gave up your one chance, now you are screwed!

The American system is vastly better in this respect, and as a result I think it works a lot better at teaching creativity and free thinking, as well as adapting to each person's individual needs.

Re:Fix it at home

[Chandon Seldon]

To a first approximation, kidnapping child molesters don't exist. To a second approximation, every single person who might kidnap your child is a friend or family member - you and your child trust them, they won't need a net.

Remember: News is "something that almost never happens". Otherwise it wouldn't be news. If you see it on TV, you don't need to worry about it.

Re:Fix it at home

[Eivind]

The world would be a better place if people grokked this.

They worry about terrorists -- but ignore the risk of diabetes. (the latter is 1000 times more likely to hurt or kill you)

They worry about abduction by unknown pedos -- but ignore traffic. (the latter is 1000 times more likely to hurt or kill your child)

They worry about the "radiation" from a cellphone-tower 50 meters from their house -- but pay good money to lie down near-nude in the strongest uv-radiation they are able to find. (the former is very likely completely harmless, the latter is KNOWN to cause premature aging of skin and increase the risk of skin-cancer)

They protest that the LHC will produce black holes that swallow the earth, but don't care if their car uses 5l/100km or 12l/100km. (the former is unphysical plainly impossible, the latter contributes to increased global warming with a very high probability (i.e. basically a certanity))

Violent death, to a first aproximation, is equal to traffic-death plus suicide. To a first aproximation, if you are killed, it will be because you kill yourself.

To a first aproximation, if you live in the modern west, accidents don't kill; disease do. ELIMINATING *ALL* accidents and *all* murders would only reduce deaths by 5% or thereabouts.

In short, the most dangerous things you and your children do are:

1) Getting too little physical activity, 2) Having unhealthy eating-habits and 3) Participating in traffic. (for those who smoke or have a high drug-consumption (including alcohol) that is one too.

War on science

[backslashdot]

How can education be fixed when their is a war on critical thinking? Its better for those in power to rule by sound bites, innuendos, and accusations that appear credible enough to be believed.

No, you can't fix it

[Anonymous Coward]

Becuase to fix education is to admit that some kids are either smarter or work harder than others. Some are going to be left behind, and others will go on and learn to their full potential, but law makers can't tell that to parents. My mother has taught for about 30 years, and in her words, the problem is almost never the students, it's the parents.

Re:No, you can't fix it

[zymurgyboy]

Yes there is: merit-based-admissions charter schools. Take the path of least resistance (in other words, avoid the unfixable).

And it begins with throwing out the blood sucking administrators and unions.

Not everyone will succeed in this paradigm, but at least the reasonably disciplined and intelligent will have a real learning environment to report to and foster, rather than the publicly funded babysitting operation they have to endure today.

Vouchers

[footNipple]

A US$3,000.00 per student/per year federal voucher will fix education very quickly.

How can a culture that celebrates ignorance

[Shadow Wrought]

ever truly fix education?

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

hmm

[nomadic]

get a fair shake from bureaucrats who like education the way it is -- flawed and therefore always needing more money?

I know I'll be in the minority here on slashdot for saying this, but society isn't divided into us (virtuous, intelligent, benevolent, and wise) and them (stupid, malicious, dishonest, and greedy). I think there are very few bureaucrats twirling their moustaches and gleefully chortling over the failures of the modern educational system. One of the symptoms of the failure of education is lack of critical thinking and objective reasoning, and one of the hallmarks of that is the kneejerk reaction that every bureaucrat is by nature evil and dishonest.

3 things to fix education

[LaminatorX]

1:Smaller class sizes!

2:Less memorization, more critical thinking and analysis.

3:Less passive listening and watching, more discussion and experiment (think Socarates).

None of these need tons of computers or facilities or whatever. What they do need are more teachers, and less burnout.

Impossible.

[maillemaker]

>Do things right at school, and perhaps there won't be any need to get the parents involved.

This simply is not possible.

I used to be a huge proponent of "teacher accountability" until I shared a 7 hour plane ride with a teacher friend of mine.

She explained the obvious to me.

All students require motivation to learn. Most students are not self-motivated. Teachers lack the authority to instill motivation in their students through punitive means, and there are very few inspirational teachers. Thus for most students, their primary motivator is their parents.

You can have the most intelligent teacher on the planet combined with the most patient, compassionate teacher on the planet - Albert Einstein crossed with Mother Theresa - and it won't matter a whit if the student is not motivated to learn.

Some very few students are self-motivated. But by and large students require external motivation, and the only people with the authority to do that are parents. The days of teachers beating students into their studies are long gone. But not so for Mom and Dad.

The single-most important thing to "Fix Education" is to increase parental involvement and stop the mentality that school is a place where you "send" your kids "to be educated". Too many people have come to view the educational system as a "service" - a place where you pay your taxes and then send your kids to be educated, with the whole burden of the process on the system. In fact, the system is merely the water - they can't force the kids to drink it. Only Mom and Dad have that power.

Unless you are extremely lucky and find the rare self-motivated student you simply cannot remove parents from a successful edcuation.

Re:Impossible.

[wikinerd]

Most students are not self-motivated

All children ask many "why" questions to their parents, showing evidence of curiosity. Science and scholarship begin from curiosity, and curiosity is the fuel of self-motivation. I think most if not all children have curiosity as a natural instinct, but something in our society destroys their curiosity and they cease to be self-motivated.

The problem is not in the children's brains, but rather in our societies, our schools, our families, and how we treat our children. Something in our society kills the natural curiosity that all children have.

Next time your child asks why the sky is blue or why GNU/Linux is cool, don't say "I have no time to tell you".

Re:Impossible.

[10101001 10101001]

Most students are not self-motivated.

Correction. Most child are self-motivated to learn. They quickly learn that school isn't about self-motivated learning; it's about roting memorization and skill training, with proficiency measured on a seemingly arbitrary scale. The only means I can think of to resolve this problem is to start treating children like people. By that, I mean, to not only teach children the rote memorization and skills, but also to make it clear to them that (a) it's only part of a greater roadmap and (b) to actually *show* them that roadmap, with their help in making that roadmap.

In short, the best way to improve a child's future prospects is to help a child forge their own future. Sometimes that means teaching them things they'd rather not have to work to learn. But, many times it means helping them find out what they desire and to use their own motivation to help them learn how they can better themselves as their prospects of doing what they already want to do.

Re:Impossible.

[DeadChobi]

One other interesting idea that I've seen repeatedly, at least coming from good teachers, is the idea of using the education system as a practicum for methods of learning. Teaching students how to learn is the single most important thing teachers can do in the 21st century, especially considering how fast the quantity of information neccessary to get good and interesting jobs is increasing. There's a good chance that those historical anecdotes won't serve much of a purpose beyond making one sound well informed, but if those anecdotes also came with an improved ability to reflect on and integrate lessons learned, than the students who studied those anecdotes are better equipped to reflect on things that happened to them in the past.

It's not neccessarily the curriculum that needs to change, but rather our concept of what's important.

Re:Impossible.

[apoc.famine]

As a HS science teacher who likes to hear himself talk, let me give you my current viewpoint:

School in the US is hampered by a few things:

1) The entrenched educational system itself.
2) A deep seated fear of lawsuits leading to coddling and oversensitivity.
3) The students themselves.
4) The teacher education and certifications programs in the US.

The entrenchment of the US educational system is so deep that we are very unlikely to overturn it for anything short of a complete meltdown. The culture of traditional schooling is deep seated through three generations of Americans, and the vast majority of them feel that this is the "proper" way to educate students. These individuals include the administration, teachers, school board members, and, most unfortunately, the voters.

Our culture off litigation is such that our schools are now paralyzed by it. Schools run with 0 overhead. They have no savings, investments, or major assets. If they are sued, that money comes DIRECTLY from the pockets of the communities that fund them through taxes. With this threat over their heads, schools will do ANYTHING to avoid even the hint of a lawsuit. They will graduate students who haven't met the requirements, let convicted criminals come back and mingle with the rest of their classmates, avoid pressing charges against students, waive ineligibility for sports due to grades, felonies, or substance abuse, etc.

This fear of lawsuits drives our schooling today. Corporal punishment is out, due to a fear of a lawsuit. Public humiliation is out due to a fear of a lawsuit. Suspensions are limited, due to fears of lawsuits. Expulsions are rare, due to fears of a lawsuit. Discipline is lax at best, due to the fear of a lawsuit. On top of this, we continue to force the same curriculum on every student, once again, due to the fear of a lawsuit. And to make matters even worse, our ability to reward achievement and differentiate excellence is rapidly diminishing....want to guess why? LAWSUITS!!! It's the word of the decade.

The combination of lax discipline, untargeted and generic curricula, and less and less rewards for performances means that few students can really be engaged with the curriculum. Most of the students themselves do not see a major value in school. While some are curious, and view the educational system as a doorway to the universe, most see as it as an opportunity to climb some social ladder. Due to my other three reasons, we as teachers are not able to motivate students well at all.

The final issue is our teacher preparation programs. I attended a state meeting about our low standardized test scores. I was brave enough to ask all the assembled elementary school teachers (some 200 or so) how many had a minor or major in math. Out of the 200, there were four hands. It's no WONDER our math scores are low, and that we struggle to teach science.

To teach elementary school, teachers need a BA in something, and an education degree. That's it. There is no requirement for some basic math and science classes, much less basic math and science EDUCATION classes. Why is this? Because most of the Education Professors at our colleges....don't have math or science degrees. They have Education degrees. Why? Because it makes no sense to hire someone to teach Education classes who doesn't have a degree in Education. And who makes those decisions? The Education Department in each school, which is made up of people with degrees....in Education.

During one of our many pointless staff meetings a year or two ago I "solved" our education problems. Here's the itemized list as compiled by two science teachers:

1) Elementary teachers need to have a minor in every subject they are to teach. No more monoculture of a million English teachers teaching elementary schol.
2) Elementary school education remains largely the same. But by 9th grade we begin to organize students by trade. By "trade" I mean: College bound, military bound, trade school/certification bound, unsk

Motivation

[maillemaker]

Rewards work also, no doubt.

But there is only one thing that kept me in line academically as a kid, and that was fear of my father's foot in my ass.

See for me, I could blow off rewards. Oh yes, it would be nice to get $5 for A's on my report card, but I don't really /need/ the $5 for anything. Oh it might be nice to watch a movie, but I could just as easily watch it on the internet. Leaving class might be nice, but where would I go? The only consistent motivator for me was FEAR of PUNISHMENT.

But that is merely a personal anecdote. I readily admit that motivation can be both positive and negative. But either way, I still beleive the most motivating influence on students is usually their parents. In my experience, teachers are usually either non-empowered or un-inspired to motivate.

Make going to school non-compulsory...

[Coolhand2120]

How to fix education in 4 easy steps

1. Make going to school non-compulsory
Kids that don't want to be in school, who have parents that don't care if they are in school, do not need to go to school. They are nothing but a distraction for the kids who want to learn. Any teacher will tell you one disruptive student will ruin the class for everyone. Public schools in the U.S. force kids who have no discipline go to school, then they are surprised when they don't listen to the teachers. The kids know the teachers can nothing to discipline them, the kids know their parents will do nothing to discipline them. I fail to see the disincentive to goof off in class here, and so do the kids, so they will goof off. Schools do not need these children and in public schools, not only do they have to go, but the public schools want them to go so that make that ever important buck from the federal and state government, education be damned. I personally know more than one teacher who cannot kick a particular kid out of their class because the school administrators tell them they can't.

2. Privatize
There is a ratio of teachers to administrators in all schools, public or private. An administrator would be like a vice principal, guidance councilor, text book researcher, sensitivity director. In a private school, the ratio is about 1:7 in public schools it's almost 1:1. Meaning for every teacher there is an administrator. And every time someone says "there's something wrong with our schools" they just tac on more administrators in a blind attempt to "fix" the problem. Administrators fix nothing, ever. Which leads me to..

3. Do away with tenure and teachers unions
The idea that teachers unions somehow are for kids has got to be the biggest lie I've ever heard. Teachers unions are for, teachers. Some people didn't know this, but if you've worked in the LAUSD for more than 3 years you cannot be fired for anything short of molesting a child, it's called tenure. Tenure is for, teachers. There is no way you can argue that keeping poor teachers (tenure) or keeping teachers that have broken the rules (teachers unions) somehow helps the kids. With these two "protective" organization are in place it takes an act of god to get rid of poor teachers. There are no teacher's unions in private schools and the level of education you get in a private school by far exceeds that in a public school. Without tenure, without teacher's unions. So at the very least it's proof that excellence does not require tenure or unions. And there is a strong argument that they do more harm than good.

4. Allow parents to take their kids out of failing schools.
I think it's a travesty that the government is going to force parents to place kids into school that they know are going to be a bad influence on the child. Parents should be able to send their child to whatever school that is reasonably in their area. It's so bad that people actually buy houses in order to get their kids sent to a particular school, and I guess for those who can't afford to move or afford a private school... to bad? That's just wrong. If we are going to be forced to pay for schools we should at least be able to select which one we're going to send our kids too, or at least let us get our money back so we can send them to a private school. The only obstacle that stops this 'voucher' system is the teachers unions. I would love to hear how the lack of a voucher system helps kids, because I'm pretty sure it only helps teachers at failing schools.


I have no belief that any of these things will change, teachers unions are far to powerful. It a huge union with almost limitless money, but it's a self perpetuating bureaucracy with the honest belief that teachers should be paid more than any other profession in the world. More than doctors, lawyers etc.. no matter how much anyone else thinks teachers deserve.