Slashdot Mirror
KDE 4.1 Released, Reviewed
StoneLion writes "After months of development and controversy, the KDE project announced the release of KDE 4.1 today. Linux.com (a Slashdot sister site) took a hands-on look at the new code, and reviewer Jeremy LaCroix says, 'KDE 4.1 simply rocks.'" Bruce Byfield's review is quite positive, as well.
Do we really need notification of a (dot)1 release?
You must be new here.
It's a pretty significant feature release and is probably a better example going forward of KDE4 can become than the .0 release was
When it's a vast improvement over the (dot)0? Yes.
Not normally, but in this case the 4.0 release was mostly to let people know they could work from that - 4.1 is supposedly the usable version :-)
Does anyone know where one can obtain Fedora 9 packages? I've been suffering through 4.0 for a while and I'd love to be able to upgrade, but I'd prefer to use fedora's package management rather than compiling it myself. It's just simpler.
KDE doesn't need you and has no obligation to do anything for you.
http://www.kde.org/download/#v4.1
Here is a picture of the recommended minimum system requirements for Vista:
http://blogs.technet.com/blogfiles/markrussinovich/WindowsLiveWriter/PushingtheLimitsofWindowsPhysicalMemory_878B/image_4.png
Not that I'm defending Vista, but KDE isn't an operating system.
Using a KDE release to rag on Vista's stability is like using a new product line from BF Goodwrench to rag on Ford Explorers.
I would say though, that KDE appears to kick GDI+'s ass. I haven't played around with KDE 4 or Aero enough to make such a comparison though.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Is Firefox 3 still looking like ass on KDE, and when you attempt to make it use KDE themes, the scrollbars disappear?
Does KDE still ignore any preferences about what you set your resolution to, then suddenly switch your resolution only when you open the resolution changer program?
From TFA (because I know some of you may not read it or at least not all of it:
"...users with Nvidia graphics cards and proprietary drivers may notice slowdown when resizing windows or moving plasma widgets, although I did not experienced this during tests with my Nvidia hardware."
Closer, but not quite there yet. Small problems like this are what is holding it back. However, with that said, I, for one, can't wait to get my hands on this.
I will bend like a reed in the wind.
I've been waiting for the 4.1 release before trying 4.x. I didn't care for 3.x and while I'm not a huge fan of GNOME, I like it well enough for daily use. So, good news for be because it looks like Kubuntu has deb packages ready to install with a few easy steps ... thinkin' I'll give it a whirl tonight.
Hopefully they've gotten rid of that freakin' kidney shaped thing in the upper right corner. Talk about a useless static "feature". ugh!
"Klaatu, verada, necktie!" -Ash
Sorry but Linux.com and Bruce Byfield praising KDE is like PC Magazine praising Vista.
I would like to some more critical reviews.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Since KDE 4.0 was never meant for users (I've read multiple articles about how it was only supposed to be for developers to get their KDE software ported) and 4.1 was supposed to be for "general use", I'd say this *did* warrant mention on slashdot.
bork bork bork!
Windows 2000 was NT 5.0. XP was NT 5.1. Wouldn't the release of XP warrant a notification? Version numbers don't actually mean anything. Some vendors create a new major version every 3 months, with no modifications, while others only go from x.1 to x.11 every 3 years, yet add tons of functionality along the way.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
I'm a lot more concerned about the substance of the release than what number they throw on it.
For instance, MacOS has only had point releases for going on a decade now. In this case, the release is a huge improvement over the point-oh-no.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Here and here there are some screencasts showing off some Plasma features.
A CC-licensed illustrated horror novel
What I would like to see includes better fonts and more useful and complete help files. I also miss Amarok.
I have had my disappointments too. My college website will not allow Konqueror. Plug-in installation still needs work so that it is as smooth as that on Windows XP.
I have nothing but praise for KDE developers who insisted that we needed a new way of doing things in KDE and therefore started developing KDE 4.0. At that time, I did not see any reason why we needed a new paradigm. Now I see the reason. Thank you so much.
For the adventurous that have been using KDE 4, which distros do you think have done the best job at packaging it? Also will they be releasing packages for KDE 4.1 shortly, or are they waiting for their next normal release cycle?
I've been having all sorts of kernel/Xorg headaches with Hardy Heron, and am looking to dump it. I'm planning on moving all my must-have software to another box running Debian stable which will free up my desktop to experiment with a new distro.
After months of development and controversy
I've never been sure why there was much controversy. The various announcements around the time of the 4.0 release and in advance made it clear that KDE 4 was the entire new desktop (in all its future versions) with new core technologies like Phonon and Plasma, whereas KDE 4.0 was the very first release of said desktop, wherein the underlying technologies were frozen so that developers could start using them, but the apps and desktop were incomplete.
I tried it as a LiveCD and the desktop experience was lukewarm, so I went back to 3.5. But I never wrote off KDE 4. No one should have, and there never should have been any controversy, considering what 4.0 was. The 4.1 release is the one people have actually been waiting for, since the apps and desktop components have had time to adjust to the new libaries, so if you adopted 4.0 thinking it would be your new desktop and you hated it, you probably jumped the gun. Have another look.
I'm bugged by something he says in this review and I see reviewers doing it all the time: "everything ran fast and smooth, even when I had six plasmoids in use and desktop effects turned on, even on a modest 1.6GHz laptop." He's using the old megahertz myth. If he's using a 1.6GHz Centrino 2, I doubt that I'll see the same performance on my 1.8GHz Sempron that's four years old.
but does it run on windows?
actually... somewhat. Not the desktop environment itself, I dont think, but KDE applications. I wasnt able to get it to work when i tried it a few months ago. it might be working better now.
And, taking previous releases of KDE as example, 4.5 will be the full-fledged, stable version, so it will also worth a note ;-)
(no flames, please, I'm a KDE user, too)
The article lines up pros and cons, though it is names "KDE4.1 Rocks!" actually appears rather fair and objectiveish. It claims the significant problems with 4.0 has been addressed. The earlier discussions here on /. have more or less focused on KDE4.0 being incomplete, which was taken to mean either incomplete as a desktop platform (insufficient basic functionality, such as icons, menus, expected behaviour etc) or desktop environment (complete set of application), and it is in this light that the article should be taken.
... is a container you can place on the desktop that can show the contents of any directory. Most distributions set one up in the default configuration to show the contents of the desktop folder, but you are no longer limited to having the contents of just the desktop folder displayed on your desktop -- you can add several instances of Folder View, each showing a different directory." This addresses the popular misconception and marketing catastrophe of KDE4 now having desktop icons.
... may notice slowdown when resizing windows or moving plasma widgets"
* KDE 4.1 Plasma panels are now resizable and you can have multiple , and they can be repositioned by dragging them by mouse.
* "The Folder View plasmoid
* The article raves about the beauty of KDE4.1.
* Application support has grown and out-of-the-download contains Konqueror, Dolphin, Gwenview, Kopete, JuK, Kontact, the KDE CD Player, and the minimalistic Dragon Player for videos
* Dolphin has been improved with tree view and tabbed browsing features.
* Is is faster than KDE4.0, "everything ran fast and smooth, even when I had six plasmoids in use and desktop effects turned on, even on a modest 1.6GHz laptop".
* "The new interfaces may take some getting used to by those accustomed to KDE 3. "
* "Nvidia graphics cards
* Amarok 2.0 is still not complete
The article is finished by saying that the author has finally replaced KDE3 as his production DE with KDE4.1.
In short, whether by design or by listening to the criticism, KDE4.1 seems to have addressed if not all then at least the most important warts of the unfortunate 4.0 release. I'll probably still wait for 4.2, but as a KDE fan I'm certainly excited!
I've got to say, Kubuntu Hardy with KDE4 was extremely disappointing. Neither Ubuntu nor KDE provided a functional wifi manager - The Network Settings application shared by many Ubuntu desktops couldn't write a interfaces file that preserved WEP keys, and was insanely cludgy. Steal some code from Maemo, people.
More KDE4 specific, using it stripped me of any sort of effective GUI-based power management. Hibernation, sleeping, and battery usage controls were completely absent. All it brought to the table was a (commonplace and unimpressive) battery monitor.
I enjoy using KDE4, but I really hope they're getting their acts together with this release, so far as laptops go.
People with openSUSE 11.0 can just click here to run the one click installer or go to http://news.opensuse.org/2008/07/29/kde-41-released-with-opensuse-packages-and-live-cd/ (or KDE developers)
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
So far I've had the following issues/nags/etc:
* Using the resize on the upper right of the new menu instantly made the default size *bigger*, which isn't what I wanted, and there was no way to resize back to even its default size.
* Input Actions don't work at all. Yes, the action and the group it's in are not disabled, and KHotKeys daemon is activated from Global Settings. No key combos work.
* The main panel glitched out and everything was horribly spaced out when I tried to add and remove widgets from it; I had to completely recreate a new panel to fix it.
* While it's not exactly slow, it does have several slow redraw issues (e.g. the classic launcher menu) and I've seen it lag at random times much more than KDE3 ever did. I know this is probably to be expected, but it's worth noting. No, I don't use desktop effects (compositing), as I've seen that slows things down much more in general (games, etc) than it helps with desktop elements.
* System Settings crashed on me on more than one occasion.
Overall, much better than the completely unusable 4.0, but they still have a long way to go to make KDE4 even remotely stable.
I don't get it. Why all the fuss about the desktop background? It is just a background after all, and hidden by any windows you have open.
From observing 'ordinary users' running Windows, they use the desktop background for starting programs which have a shortcut there - because the Start menu is so congested with crap, they don't even look at it and are often incapable of running anything not on the desktop. Because of this most Windows application installers have taken to adding a desktop shortcut as well as a Start menu item. Of course in the long term this 'icon inflation' will make the background itself unusable and we'll have to think of something else. I can't help feeling that just making a usable Start menu would be a better answer.
The second use of the desktop background is because files get saved there by default from your web browser. Again, this seems to be because unsophisticated users have no idea of directories and if it doesn't go on the background, they can't find it. But on Unix everyone has a home directory and I'd expect KDE (or GNOME) to provide easy access to that directory, even for people who aren't aware that any other location exists.
The kind of technically skilled people who used to run Enlightenment probably enjoy having semitransparent widgets flip into shape in 3d on the background, but I don't see what usability advantages that brings. Would it not be simpler to make the background be a background - just blank? There is no difficulty in putting one application window _underneath_ another, so you will see it when the top window is moved or minimized out of the way.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
I look at this screenshot linked from the article however and I see a confusing mash-up of design agendas. Dolphin file manager looks drab and strangely cluttered with shallow implied 3D for tabs and other delimiters yet the OS X style scroll bars bulge out. What are those scrollbars supposed to be made of? Blown glass? Gel? The panel at the bottom caves in with greater depth than the background image.. The simulated lighting model they're using to shade elements come from all over the place. I can count about 3 contradicting implied directional lights, from the panel to the icons to the widgets themselves..
Other things confuse: What is that Logitech logo doing in the top-right corner? Those tiny minimise/maximise buttons look like they're from another universe entirely: not echoed in any other element on the desktop, lest of all the stripey title bar.
I'm not convinced much effort has been spent on making KDE look 'stunning'..
KDE was very tweakable last time I looked so I'm sure someone will come up with a unifying theme. Glad to hear stability and speed have been greatly improved.
STILL can't hide system tray icons?
This is a big problem for me. I don't have a widescreen monitor, so the system tray is taking over the panel, squeezing my task bar to a frustratingly small size.
KDE3 has an excellent system tray icon hiding mechanism. Why does KDE4 make me look at them all, all the time?
Most of the KDE apps are just about integration, but there are a lot that I'd use, Dolphin, Amarok, K3B, Konversation, Dragon Player (Just in that it's very light and quick to use, not claiming it's "better" in any technical sense) and possibly KTorrent I would use a lot on Windows if I could.
:P).
Not to mention the KDE games are generally better than any other desktop games (although desktop games in general are only good for time-wasting
However I think the DE itself WILL be able to run on Windows, I've seen some screenshots ages ago and vaguely recall hearing about how it will change your startup screen to allow you to choose between KDE4 and Explorer.
Can someone please clue me in as to what a plasmoid is? What are the differences between a plasmoid and a regular application? Why would I want to use, say, a folder view plasmoid rather than a regular file browsing app?
I'd mod AC down, but poisonous propaganda like this deserves a rebuttal.
From the link provided So if you are one of these poisonous users who offer no thanks for the time, energy and skill that goes into creating KDE, please go away. Find another project to harass (preferably closed source) as we've had enough of it. That is a totally appropriate response to toxic personalities.
Furthermore, entities that exchange software for money need licensees, better known as users up to a certain point. Entities that write software for their own pleasure have no such need. So, literally speaking, KDE doesn't "need" users.
Finally, KDE 4.1 is great. I'm running it on an old Thinkpad t21 just fine. The packages are in debian experimental, which have no dependency issues if you are running Lenny. Also worth noting, Lenny is **very** reliable for production and desktop use right now.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
"KDE 4.1 is great. I'm running it on an old Thinkpad t21 just fine"
That is great news. Whenever I see something with a long list of new features I kind of groan about what the new hardware requirements are likely to be.
Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
You must be new here.
he says as I compare UIDs ....
Put identity in the browser.
Apparently, it's a trend to go against convention and Gnome's bump to 3.0 won't add any features at all.
Put identity in the browser.
Actually, it's a (dot)(slash) release.
I keep hearing that the default fonts suck but I've never understood the claim. The screenshot you linked to looks fine.
Can you provide a screenshot for comparison for what a decent default font should look like in your opinion?
In addition to the lameness filter, we should also implement the Stupid Filter, once it is finished.
I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
Linux itself with no DE is not usable to an average person, and so is Aero without the rest of Vista.
The key difference is that Linux itself is usable to at least some people, a DE just makes it usable by a lot more people. Conversely Vista isn't usable by anyone, Aero just makes it obvious to a lot more people. ;)
"Just a fox, a whisper."
Can you provide a screenshot for comparison for what a decent default font should look like in your opinion?
(This is not a flame! I do use KDE mind you!)
I am not the OP, but if you want to see what decent fonts look like google for a Ubuntu (Gnome) screen shoot.
Here is an anecdote for you:
As a full-time KDE user, when I bought a computer for my parents (1 year ago) I installed Kubuntu on it. Since Kubuntu has been such a mess in the last year, upon my last visit, I installed Ubuntu on that computer.
My mother (~60 years old, has no clue whatsoever about what KDE or Gnome are) upon being presented to what I called a new Linux flavor, said, spontaneously, within some 5 seconds looking at the Gnome menus:
Oh, the fonts are much beter
I'd use KDE happily & lovingly if only I could disable the damn "tap-to-click" on my trackpad!
Isn't that an X-Windows problem, rather than a KDE problem? Anyway, here are the notes that I jotted down last time I dealt with it (not sure where I got my info):
Edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf to turn off conversion of a tap on the
touchpad into a left mouse click (begs for accidents):
Option "TapButton" "0"
Option "MaxTapMove" "0"
Option "MaxTapTime" "0"
Note that some people recommend also doing:
Option "HorizScrollDelta" "0"
Option "VertScrollDelta" "0"
It all depends on settings.
I'd say, Ubuntu was first distro which actually made Gnome look good in general and fonts in particular. (Before Ubuntu kicked in, default fonts to read menus/ets in Gnome 2.x required a microscope. No font settings dialog was presentin 2.0.x releases either.)
I would also add that default Kubuntu isn't really good example of KDE setup. Many complain about it. Even I complain about it. If you like *buntus - then use default Ubuntu and do not wander around. The beauty of such easy-to-use distros is in their default settings: do not like them - do not use the distro.
But to give an example of up-to-date Debian-based KDE-centric distro ... Well, I'm still looking for it by myself ~_~
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
So let me get this straight. You can move widgets and you can resize panels? Will the madness never end?!?!
[ think ]
I've actually seen some screenshots of plasma widgets and panels on Windows. Aaron Segio said he didn't personally plan to port plasma to Windows, but someone else was doing it.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Now that KDE 4.1 is using WebKit in place of KHTML, does this mean EOL of KHTML? For anyone using Konquerer in the new KDE, how does web performance differ from the previous version?
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
KDE 4.1 top feature, which for some reason is not mentioned in any of the reviews, is its new, sleek theme. In 4.1, the default theme is so black that it has a negative RGB value (as opposed to boring old 4.0, using a simple zero). Some say the color was created using pictures of black holes, or thermal imaging of an object at absolute zero.
The number in parenthesis refers to the section of the manual where the command can be found. See man(1).
If he knew anything about Unix nomenclature, that'd be a dot(1) release.
Heck no.
(I don't, I'm still confused when people refer to man(6) or what-not. Can anyone help me out, I couldn't find a wikipedia page or FAQ on the numbers in parenthesis anywhere.)
It comes from the fact that the manpages have headings that look like e.g.:
LS(1) manual LS(1)
So ENTRYNAME(MANUALSECTION).
So essentially the thing(2) notation simply indicates in which section of the (now electronic) manual the thing is. For instance, commands are section 1, system calls section 2, library functions section 3, kernel interfaces section 4, file formats section 5, and so on.
It is mostly used to indicate that we're talking about manpages, so e.g. "see open(2) for details" indicates "open's manpage." More verbose usages such as "see the manpage for open(2)" are also seen.
This overlaps with a second usage, which makes more sense to me but is less common: to use the manpage notation to indicate which type of thing you're talking about. For instance, there is a command 'printf' and a library function 'printf,' so saying 'use printf(1)' or 'use printf(3)' to disambiguate the two is a convenient use of the 'manpage notation.'
But mostly people mean it as a shorthand for 'the manpage.'
...from the KDE devs, read this before you install:
http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/Is_KDE_4.1_for_you%3F
(Disclaimer: I used KDE 4.0, was aware it was a developer release, and liked it for what it was despite the lack of polish. I've been using the KDE 4.1 betas and RCs for a while and really like what's been done and it's really usable for me. But YMMV and there are some parts that aren't up to par with 3.5.x yet. That's fine - I didn't use those parts. But if you are using them, then 3.5.x is still being patched and updated, so it might be worth waiting 'til 4.2 before you switch.)
Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
A good example is crontab(1) and crontab(5). Try 'man 1 crontab' and 'man 5 crontab' and you'll get the command and the config file, respectively. It normally doesn't matter, as if there's only one in the manual, you get the one if you do 'man whatever'.
How could you not understand the claim?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/KDE_4.png
Look how the "R" pushes against the "o" in Root, how the "F" is against the "r" in Fresh, and how the "T" is against the "o" in Tools. Look how the "T" is right up against the "r" in Trash.
Look how freakishly wide the "H" is in Help and the "V" is in View. Look how weirdly thin the "F" is in File and the "T" is in Tools. "W" in general just looks strange.
Some letters are properly spaced from their siblings, and others are jammed right up against each other. Some letters are cartoonishly wide while others are strangely thin. Maybe you don't notice or care about any of this, but it's a lack of professionalism and attention to detail that has lasted for years. They keep rewriting their panels and shells and file managers, but they still won't change the goddamn font!
"Sufferin' succotash."
If you knew anything about Unix nomenclature, you'd know the number in a man is just the section. And if you'd read "man man" as all good geeks should, you'd have all the sections spelled out.
1 Executable programs or shell commands /dev) /etc/passwd
2 System calls (functions provided by the kernel)
3 Library calls (functions within program libraries)
4 Special files (usually found in
5 File formats and conventions eg
6 Games
7 Miscellaneous (including macro packages and conventions), e.g. man(7), groff(7)
8 System administration commands (usually only for root)
9 Kernel routines [Non standard]
Sam ty sig.
Parent is not a troll. Parent is misled. Items of note:
1. Amarok is in a separate development cycle, it's managed by totally different people. I'm running the Amarok 2 development version and it's all right. Still lacking some of the features of the 1.x cycle, but they're trying to port it to entirely an entirely new framework. Good work so far. Check it out.
2. If it's not enough for you, there's nothing stopping you from running KDE 3 applications on KDE 4.
3. Yeah, Dolphin sucks.
Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
So does this release allow you to set the different desktop backgrounds for different virtual desktops across multiple monitors, like KDE 3 did?
Or are they still trying to dumb down the desktop experience a la GNOME, Ubuntu and KDE 4.0?
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Everyone says that about every piece of technology until they discover something better. Even if it's ultimately not successful, I find it commendable that the KDE devs are willing to try something new.
It could be stranger. TeX's version numbers tend towards pi.
Not a sentence!
Just wait 'till you see the screen savers!
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
Well, from time to time, I use the "()" notation as a subtle "RTFM" if I'm mentioning something obscure or complex. For me, it's kind of like linking to wiki when the discussion of something is well out of scope for the topic on hand.
When you see the "()"s, you know exactly where you get more info on the subject. I think this is somewhat usual for mailing lists and multiple CC'ed emails where you have people of varying degrees of experience. I think it really does help S/N ratio, IMHO.
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
There is no font "sans" -- it's a generic placeholder that will be substituted by whatever font the distribution thinks is a nice sans-serif font.
In any case, anyone who is able to discern any difference between the font rendering in Gnome and the font rendering in KDE is deluded -- both desktops use _exactly_ the same font rendering technology. If you don't like the default options, you can set your preferred kind of anti-aliasing, hinting and font size.