Citizens Spy On Big Brother

An anonymous reader writes "Citizens of the world are striking back at 24/7 state surveillance by pulling out their cameraphones and filming inept officials, deadly healthcare lapses and thuggish cops. So-called Sous-veillance is seeing more and more people posting damning footage of official misdemenours to sites such as YouTube to shame them into action." I wonder what happens if you inform a cop that you are recording him when he pulls you over.

Comments

You wonder?

[cayenne8]

"I wonder what happens if you inform a cop that you are recording him when he pulls you over."

Oh..that's simple...camera mysteriously gets dropped and smashed on the ground (probably while you are being slammed against the car), and you get charged first with obstructing justice...with more charges to follow later as they have time to think them up.

Re:You wonder?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, like the guy who refused to give the cops the video footage of them coming to his door when he informed them that he had a camera and a tape and they arrested him and beat him? I mean, theres not much left to wonder about, welcome to Amerika.

Posted anonymous for obvious reasons.

Re:You wonder?

[betterunixthanunix]

Pretty much. Cops have a lot of leeway when it comes to knocking over your camera in the course of an arrest or ticket, especially at an event where there is already some misbehavior from the police. Try filming a protest where the cops start throwing tear gas; unless you have your camera affixed to a telescope and you're on a hill far away, chances are that a cop is gonna "firmly grasp" the arm holding the camera, and the camera will end up on the ground waiting to be destroyed. We had a protest a few months ago at my university that ended up like that; only one fragmented video escaped.

Re:You wonder?

[montyzooooma]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXzRczBk06M

Re:You wonder?

[wiggles]

Then you hear stories like the one about the 16 year old kid with the broken back who was tasered 19 times by the police for failing to stand up when ordered

Re:You wonder?

[cayenne8]

"Yeah, like the guy who refused to give the cops the video footage of them coming to his door when he informed them that he had a camera and a tape and they arrested him and beat him?"

Yeah, I'm not sure why this was modded troll either...I mean, this story was published on Slashdot awhile back. Actually, there are two of them on that subject here at a home and here filming a car pullover.

Re:You wonder?

[mi]

Oh..that's simple...camera mysteriously gets dropped and smashed on the ground

No. What's more likely is that the officer starts acting with utmost professionalism, smiles, and fines you for various things, with which he would not have bothered otherwise. He is also going to take his sweet time issuing the ticket(s) — especially if you commit another folly by indicating, that you are in a hurry. (12 years ago I did that, and the pig took 40 minutes to issue the citation.)

If it is illegal in your locale to record people without warning, put a notice about recording on your window — he is not going to notice it, but you'll be covered — do not bring it to his attention. In general, do not argue with the policemen. All arguments should happen in court.

Re:You wonder?

[Jesrad]

"Dismissal from the department" is a heck of a way to mispell "getting a medal and commendations for his bravery".

Re:You wonder?

[WillAdams]

In a local case, the person who made the tape was accused of illegal wiretapping. Previous discussion of it here:

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/12/2050212&tid=123

Charges were eventually dropped though.

William

Re:You wonder?

[doas777]

well that would be non-violent drug offenders, the fastest growing majority in our prison systems.

Re:You wonder?

[Toonol]

That case was not really related to this. He was withholding evidence he had been subpoenaed for in a criminal case, video footage of criminals caught in the act of vandalism. Maybe you disagree, but it's not like he was being beaten up by corrupt cops on the down low. The proper legal niceties were observed.

Re:You wonder?

[xappax]

Video recording cops isn't that dangerous. Me and people I know have done it as a policy, in a fairly confrontational way for years now.

Sure, the cops get pissed off, sure they threaten to arrest you, but if you stand your ground, don't interfere with their "crime scene", and make it clear you know your rights, they don't do anything serious.

You can learn about smart/effective ways to record the police here: http://www.copwatch.net/forums/

There's a lot of advice, but the main thing is to make sure you have someone else with you, preferably with another camera, to hang back and record any interaction the cops have with you, the copwatcher.

Depends on the cop

[TubeSteak]

I wonder what happens if you inform a cop that you are recording him when he pulls you over.

Almost all of them will ask you to stop recording.
Some will physically block the camera.
Very few will try to take your camera from you.

Police (and security guards) will do this with varying levels of anger and threats.

The only two things that matter are:
1. You are on public property
2. You are not filming/photographing something you legally cannot (like a port or inside a mall)

Re:Depends on the cop

[Tim C]

Exactly. Here in the UK there are a couple of reality TV shows that follow a team of police around, filming them as they go about their duties.

From time to time someone they're dealing with will demand that the cameraman stop filming, and the response is always along the following lines:

"He can film what he likes, we're in public"

Well, then that surely applies both ways, no?

Re:Depends on the cop

[Jason Levine]

I'd agree with everything you said and would only add the following link for a PDF outlining Photographer's Rights:

http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

I keep a printed copy in my camera bag in case I ever encounter an overzealous police officer or security guard. (I wouldn't be rude about it, but would politely refer to the sheet detailing what my rights are.)

don't inform the cop you're recording him.

[jgaynor]

"I wonder what happens if you inform a cop that you are recording him when he pulls you over."

Beats me, but apparently it's more fun (and career-lethal) to film him without notification.

illegal in some states to do that

[sckeener]

In some states it is illegal to film a government official.

Not that it will help them once it gets on youtube, but first you have to get it on youtube and not confiscated by the police.

What would you do if you filmed a cop beating someone and they asked for the video camera? If you answered anything but give the camera over, expect to be in pain and most likely jail.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[SatanicPuppy]

The original idea was Plato; he posited a social class of people in his ideal Republic who would guard over the regular citizens. He had ideas of trying to inculcate in them a sort of high-minded ideal of service which would keep them from being corrupt; even at the time it was considered to be a bit naive.

The latin quote is from Juvenal; a character in one of his satires was talking about hiring people to guard the chastity of his wife (daughter? can't remember), and stressing out because he was sure that she would put out for her guards first, so he'd need a second set of guards to watch the first guards, and so forth.

The problem is always the same; we rely on the guardians to be self-policing, and it doesn't always work. But when you open up the possibility of everyone stepping up and taking some of the burden of watching the watchers, it becomes possible to sidestep the problem. The watchers are being watched by the watched, in effect being policed by the people they are policing.

Re:It so rare...

[hal9000(jr)]

Don't confuse using force to subdue a violent person at a public venue with using undue force. I have been to clubs, raves, concerts, protest rallies, ball games, and other public gatherings. I have not seen the police use undue force. Meaning, when someone gets out of hand, the police/security subdued the person by immobilizing them, usually with a pile, cuffing, and moving the person out of the way.

In the cases where I have seen police use batons or tasers, the person was striking out violently. That seems justified (or more justifiable).

Of course abuse happens, maybe more often then we see on the news because victims don't report it (fear of reprisal), but it is not, I believe, a common occurrence.

And people in authority who abuse their authority, should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

The Case of Brett Darrow

[not_hylas( )]

Q. I wonder what happens if you inform a cop that you are recording him when he pulls you over.

A. The case of Brett Darrow, Missouri:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2715792117793977759&

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5591813350444656353&q=source:010563705515560372049&hl=en

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2007/100907Motorist.htm

Any other questions?, I got a whole folder dedicated to "official" ABUSE.

Related:

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/174096756/m/128000201931?r=261000401931#261000401931

EyeFi to the Rescue (product plug)

[scorp1us]

The Eye-Fi products will help anyone in a situation where pictures are attempted to be deleted from a camera. By buffering images then transmitting pictures to the internet via WiFi, you can effectively remove the ability for people to confiscate film or memory cards.

All you need is a near-by wifi station... Which isn't too hard, but it would be awesome if WiFi devices (phones) had client that could receive as well. You and your friend could embed in a crowd and if the photographer is discovered, your friend's cell phone could be the backup. With the iphone, and other phones you could then automatically email images to others in near-real time...

The eyefi also somewhat supports GPS tagging too, which may help with authenticity.

(I am not affiliated with Eye-fi in anyway, other than having one on my wish-list)