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Blizzard Tries To Forbid Open Sourcing Glider
ruphus13 notes a new development in Blizzard's case against MDY, which we discussed last week. Blizzard, the maker of World of Warcraft, has now requested another injunction — to prevent the open sourcing of Glider code. Quoting: "Blizzard has asked the court for a relatively unconventional order prohibiting MDY from making the source code for its MMO Glider software available to the public, and prohibiting MDY from helping people develop other World of Warcraft automation software. Blizzard had previously asked the court to shut down MDY's WoW operations in its motion for summary judgment, but the court's summary judgment order did not address Blizzard's request. Blizzard's requests to prohibit open-source release of MDY's software and prohibit MDY's assistance in development of independent WoW bots are new to this motion — and seem likely to raise eyebrows in the open source and digital rights advocacy camps."
Blizzard doesn't really doesn't really want th EFF to get involved in this fight. Ok, the EFF may not actively take part in such a fight, but the OpenSource community will. The enemy of my enemy...
OOPS! we were hacked! our source code was stolen!
OMG!! It's all over pirate bay! sorry!
In other words, legally say "Blizzard.... Go To Hell."
Except, it's not legal if MDY claims this happens in court, when in reality the story is a bit fabricated.
Also, doing so before the court has a chance to accept or deny Blizzard's request may not help MDY's case at all, and end up costing them.
Those who believe the Internet is private,
find their privates are on the Internet.
its not a gaming company anymore eh ?
lets see, they want to BAN an automation software. on grounds that they may be used to automate their game.
im sure they are aware that normal windows macroing programs can also be used to automatize wow. but for some *obscure* reason, they are not disclosing that information to court, and ask the court to ban macro programs worldwide.
Read radical news here
it doesnt infringe on anyone's copyrights.
the STUPID, the OVERLY MORONIC argument blizzard is using is that the program 'modifies the wow software running in THE MEMORY'.
of course, that is trying to fool the old, senile court judges. everyone who has used computers a bit knows that when a program runs in memory, MANY aspects of it are modified on constant basis, and a few million times a second or more. windows kernel code modifies the wow software running in the memory, wow software ITSELF modifies itself in the memory, its memory footprint changes, it reads and writes data from disk, and to network and modifies itself accordingly.
a computer's memory is something too complicated for a lawyer to fathom. they shouldnt sweat it.
Read radical news here
This can not help Blizzard in any way what so ever.
A) Glider isn't exactly hard to create.
B) Makes Blizzard look like bullies..again.
C) Now there are several people who are going to create a clone.
D) It's impact on the game, emotional views aside, isn't really that great.
Stopping Glider is a bandage on a bigger issue they refuse to actually address, farming.
Now, farming isn't nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. In MMO's that allowed groups to control areas, it was horrible, but you can't really do that in WoW.
Here are some thing they could do:
1) Don't let anyone mine/pick anything that there skill level makes gray to them.
2) put some random drift into movement.
3) limit the price you can sell something for on the AH to 10 times what a vendor would pay
4) don't allow the transfer of more then 100GP a time. Maybe a one time unlimited amount per month.
All of these would be pretty trivial to implement.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
That's like saying everything at Miliw0rm is illegal. No, the software there can be used for illegal purposes, but in no way is the code it self illegal.
They can do whatever they can trick a judge to go along with.
Because they want to stop someone from publishing a way to fuck over most players of their games?
Yup, how evil of them.
Sure, you can ban bots and you can void licenses when you catch someone, but bottom line: People won't stop as long as two criterions are not matched
1. The game is interesting enough to be played instead of botted.
2. The game is complicated enough to make botting pointless.
Why do people bot? Two reasons. First, they're goldfarmers and want to make as much gold as possible without having to do it themselves. And second, some parts of the game are just boring tedium nobody wants to do but has to.
So what all comes down is time sinks. People want to avoid time sinks. They don't want to sit in one spot and farm the same crapmobs for hours to get their $number $item for $quest. That's boring and tedious. They don't want to farm $mob for gold to buy their mount, that's boring and tedious.
Give people what they want to play and you have no problem with bots. Simple as that. When you have a problem with people botting through your game, all it says is that you installed something in the game that should keep the people occupied but they generally hate to do it (aka time sink).
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
It's not what they did, it's how they did it. It's a damn shame that they chose to use the insane 'copyright on RAM contents' argument. They did have a reasonably legitimate complaint, since (as I understand it, at least) glider causes problems on their servers which they have authority over. Trying to tell people what they can and can't do with their own game installations on their own machines is an absolute joke, but trying to set terms for what people are allowed to do on a communal service with its own rules is fair enough.
To fulfil Slashdot tradition and make a somewhat clunky and inappropriate car analogy: I can attach rockets to my car and blast along at 300mph on my own land and it's none of the manufacturer's damn business. If I then paid them to take it on their test track which had a rule saying "No rocket cars" they'd be well within their rights to kick me out.
OOPS! we were hacked! our source code was stolen!
OMG!! It's all over pirate bay! sorry!
In other words, legally say "Blizzard.... Go To Hell."
Well are you not a swell guy or what??? So what do you say to the guy that is NOT cheating? "Hey that is your problem, you oughta cheat too" This code sucks and people that develop it suck as well. They are people that do not believe rules are for them. Why don't they just go write ther own Open source versions of WoW and play with themselves. I want to play the game WITHOUT having to resort to cheat.
Infact, such an act would probably end up with them being held in contempt of court of the original ruling, let alone this case.
I'm the ideal customer. Rarely play, but every 30 days my account is debited.
Blizzard has crossed an ethical line. Maybe they don't like the guy's software, but asking a court to restrict his freedom of speech is simply wrong.
Yes, publication of source code is a free speech right:
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1023-225508.html&st.ne.fd.tohhed.ni?hhTest=1
No, my rights and yours are universal. The government is involved because we create a government to protect our rights.
This "Conservative" ideology that "our rights apply only to protection from the government" is just wrong. The Constitution specifies, among other protected rights, that we cannot be slaves - prohibiting not just the government from owning slaves. The Constitution of course instructs the government to protect us from robbery, murder and all kinds of other deprivations of our rights.
Our rights are inalienable. Not just inalienable by the government, but by anyone. We create governments to protect us from that alienation, even while the governments we create are themselves not empowered, and often explicitly prohibited to be sure there's no confusion, to deprive us of those rights. But are created with the power to protect our rights.
--
make install -not war
How about Blizzard just fixes their software not not allow cheating?
http://www.mhall119.com
I will buy more things, I like that they try to get rid of cheaters and people abusing the game for profit. Those people just destroy the game for all others.
I doubt blizzard do this for themself as much as for their costumers (which if there was lots of cheaters and people grinding for profit would not have been future costumers and therefor would affect Blizzard themself to.)
It's the people who run patched games which suck.
WoW isn't a first person shooter or something, its not like people are using aimbots. This program basically boils down to a computerized game playing monkey.
Yes.
Glider was based off of private code.
Glider could not have been developed with access to that code.
A new, "copyright infringement-free" Glider would be the fruits of copyright infringement.
They could also get them under the DMCA for reverse engineering if they do try to "clean up" the code like a CS student before turning in a copied assignment.
Only because the rockets are designed specifically for use with (only function on?) cars that will only ever be used in the No Rocket Cars Allowed Test Track.
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
Curiosity... can you justify your argument in any practical way? If a bot plays 10 hours while I'm at work, and a college kid on break plays 10 hours while I'm at work, we both wind up in the same place at the same time. Neither of us has an advantage.
WoW leveling requires exactly zero skill, same with resource acquisition. Since leveling and resource acquisition in WoW is a matter of time expenditure - by design, mind you - why does it matter whether or not a player puts in that time, or a bot does?
Weird slashbug #455
The problem lies beyond your issue of cheating in an online game, which on the concern-o-meter is a lot less important than a company like blizzard getting to control someone else's source code. This sort of precedent could be very scary. Any company that can find a judge who would believe their IP is somehow infringed by other software that is or is not open source could then get control over how that code is handled? no, that cannot fly at all.
In the midst of all this frothing-at-the-mouth has anyone ever actually bothered reading Blizzard's response as to why the concerns of Public Knowledge really don't apply to games like WoW (Games which you must connect to centralized servers only after agreeing to a plethora of EULA and ToU agreements and cannot access any game content otherwise). This case if you examine it deep enough obviously has no ramifications beyond preventing further hijacking of entertainment service providers such as Blizzard through World of Warcraft.
Can anyone give a single example of how this narrow ruling can possibly have a chilling effect on peoples "right" to do anything other than ruin an online community by violating agreement after agreement to effectively ruin a (game) market through unchecked greed? I bet you can't.
As per the response Blizzard filed to Public Knowledge's concerns:
"We invented personal computing." - Bill Gates
I would argue that Glider is hacking a computer network. Bear with me here.
The tool manipulates a secured line of communication between a client and a server to get a desired set of results and hides the fact that it is doing so. You could call it SQL injection, replay-attack, man in the middle, etc. It is the same thing as hacking a shared network.
A different example. Do you mind if I write software to run on my ATM that when it connects to a bank just manipulates a little data. Maybe transfers some additional money into my account? That is what a Botting-program does to an online game. It takes cpu and resources from the common pool and transfers it to the hacker allowing them to accomplish goals while the user is working or sleeping.
Now you could counter argue that Glider is only interacting with the Wow client in the same way that a user would. But that only works if they were actually interacting with the client and not disabling security and doing things not allowed by the client.
Oh I agree.
But lawsuits and the government shouldn't be the ones to give you a cheater free experience on a WoW Server hosted by Blizzard.
Blizzard should be the one to police it's virtual world. Blizzard runs the servers, Blizzard wrote the code, Blizzard collects money from paying customers like yourself who want to play WoW without worrying about other people botting or hacking.
Blizzard should take an active role in preventing/eliminating things they don't want in their world. If botting is going be against BLIZZARD'S RULES the punishment for botting should be ENFORCED BY BLIZZARD.
I have zero problem with Blizzard banning me/terminating my account/flagging my CD-Key as invalid if I'm caught violating their rules. Should it be *ILLEGAL* to break the rules Blizzard makes up for their virtual world? HELL NO.
That's like me making a web forum and telling everyone it's against the rules to post images...then taking to court anyone who writes an HTML book that includes the IMG tag. My rules that I've arbitrarily decided are NOT the law.
If some guy wants to publish the source to something he wrote, why shouldn't he be able to? Because some company somewhere doesn't like it? That seems a bit unfair to me. I'm sure Microsoft wasn't happy about Linux and the Open Source alternative OSes that exist. I'm sure you could argue that Microsoft's bottom line has been hurt from the OS community *AND* that much of the functionality of the OS communities products are based off of MS Software (Open Office can open .xls files - if not for Excel they wouldn't be able to do that, right?).
Because the rules of the game say you must be the one playing not some automated system.
The 9million people who subscribed to the game agreed to such rules and the majority of them play the game fairly.
So what makes you so special or gives you the right to be above the rules that you agreed to?
If you don't like the game or its rules dont play, don't be a self centered asshole who thinks hes above everyone else.
The real problem is the fact that World of Warcraft (and every MMO released to date) is designed with such shoddy gameplay mechanics that people would rather have a computer play most of the game for them. The problem isn't that some people automate their characters, the problem is that a large percentage of the game is so mind-numbingly boring and repetitive that people would go to any length to avoid it and just play the good stuff. Is there anything wrong with this? Absolutely not, these developers (again, this applies to ALL MMOs) need to learn to design games that are fun the entire time you're playing them.
Put it another way, consider what would be the case if WoW were a single player game. The immediate conclusion everybody would draw was that the gameplay is substandard, because they are so tempted to automate it. Make it multiplayer and all of a sudden this is different? No. What's really going on here? Blizzard puts as many artificual, tedious roadblocks as they can get away with into the game, and the reason they do so is to extend the duration of their subscriptions as long as possible. When somebody decides to automate the process, Blizzard isn't protecting their player base, they're protecting their profit margins. They're saying, "You'll play this game OUR way so we can milk you for as much money as possible." So I say to Blizzard, cure the disease, not the symptom. Make a game that people don't want to have a computer play most of it for them and you won't have these problems.
Can't figure out how to make a game that's both fun and takes a long time to get tired of? Hire some actually talented game designers. We know you can take a design somebody else came up with and polish the mechanics to to a shiny gleam (see: every Blizzard game to date). Now's the time to innovate.
I think it's more like a court telling a thief that he can't publish a book on how to pick locks, even though he might have been using his 'knowledge' to commit illegal acts, it could be usefull learning material for a locksmith doing something completely legal.
Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
> If a game had no grind, players would lose interest quickly
That is incorrect.
Guild Wars is an example of an online game that has (almost) no grind, and yet is massively popular (millions), and growing.
And GW has (almost) no bots, since there is almost no boring grinding for bots to replace. As a result, the only reason left to run bots in GW is for farming for drops, but it's very rarely done.
So no, you're wrong. WoW (and EverQuest and others) did not need to be designed as time sinks, but they were, simply because that extends the companies' monthly revenues. And now Blizzard deserves to be overrun with Glider-type bots, because the grinding problem is of their own design and making.
The need for grinding is a sign of a very badly designed game. Repetition has no redeeming aspects at all.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
Because an honest player puts actual effort into resource acquisition, while someone who uses a bot is able to beat the honest player without expending the same amount of effort.
This frustrates the honest player and rewards the bot user.
If you don't have the time to play a game by its rules, then go find a different game to play.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
I don't play WoW because I generally get bored with it after about a month, so this doesn't really affect me one way or the other. Your response, however, seems mostly based on emotion. I'm looking for pragmatic reasons to not allow botting.
Yes, the rules are a legitimate reason to reject bots, but they're not really a practical reason. I'm looking for a clear explanation of what the difference is between getting to L60/70 in 10 days with a bot, or 10 days hitting the keys yourself. Neither person person gains an advantage, and to play the instances - the meat of the game, really - they're going to have to kick the bot off and take control anyway.
So, really, what's the difference?
Weird slashbug #455
This case already had the shitty ruling that Blizzard gets to lord over what other software you're allowed to run on your own computer, just because their (bullshit, ought-to-be-unenforceable) EULA says so. That's a scary precedent too.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
"Why don't they implement a challenge-response system in-game like a CAPTCHA? Ask the player some specifically worded question about some game event."
Why don't they remove the obvious time wasting aspects of the game that turn a fun challenge into "grinding".
go kill this monster, but you are only done with X drops... wtfh?
I generally enjoy WoW but what really frustrates me are the obvious attempts to get me to play longer and therefore keep shelling out money.. like run over there and kill x monster then come back.. i come back and am given the quest to return to the same exact spot and kill y monster (that i had to kill anyway because he stands right next to X). BOOOORING!
if they spent more time developing quests (and adding to the lower level quest lines) people wouldn't want to automate their grinding (for an e.g. there is a low level crossroads quest that spawns a centaur attack on a village you have to defend against, makes you feel like you are really fighting "for the horde", lots of fun).
I'm just getting tot he high level stuff and it seems to be more along these lines.. why they don't try and improve the older work is beyond me.. that's prolly the number 1 gripe i hear about grinding. UGH WC or SFK again/ "can someone run me thru? i'll pay you gold".
If I were Blizzard and he claimed the code was leaked because he was hacked, I'd probably accuse him of negligence, at the least.
Except at that point, isn't negligence considered criminal? If so, wouldn't the burden of proof be on Blizzard? It would be just as likely for MDY to covertly hand out a login and password and say it was "hacked" as it would to say that users, desperate for the software to continue existing, cracked the server on which the code resides and took said code.
Really now, what this is about (at least to some of us) is that what right does Blizzard's EULA give them to control what happens to the source code of SOMEONE ELSE'S IP. Yes, the code is used to "cheat" in a video game, but even if Blizzard has the best intentions of their customers at heart, those of us who know this country, and this industry are concerned of where it can lead. Precedent will be set and anyone will use the case to try and gag other peoples software on this premise. Blizzard should not be able to use their copyright claim to trample others copyright. If they do, others will most definitely follow.
Solution:
Submit the entire Glider source code as an exhibit, to prove that it does not contain copyrighted or protected property. I imagine an expert witness could be found who could analyze it reliably. (Unfortunately, PAYING such a person would be more difficult.)
If Glider was written undersource control, it would be interesting to see the lifecycle of the tool, also.
first, it's OSS scripting that interacts with blizzard's "entertainment" code.
Then, it's OSS scripting that interacts with major microsoft apps, or reads the latest "MS ONLY" format.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
That's the wrong approach.
You shouldn't focus on stopping automated game play.
You need to make changes so it's not more beneficial then non automated play.
I ahve a programmable keyboard. I don't mean those ones with software running on the machine, I mean a keyboard with memory I can program.
This is completly undetectable to the computer. I could automate all kinds of things, it's what computers do.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
A different example. Do you mind if I write software to run on my ATM that when it connects to a bank just manipulates a little data. Maybe transfers some additional money into my account?
No, actually, I don't mind at all. I do mind if you connect it to the bank network, though.
> It's only illegal if you get caught.
It's not a question of legal. Here's my take after five plus years of reading Groklaw. (Which covers the SCOundrel fiaSCO, which is still in progress.)
It is a question of if the judge will hold you in contempt. A judge can do this for almost any reason. It is suspiciously convenient that the very source code that Blizzard was asking to suppress suddenly gets "hacked" and "leaked". It doesn't help credibility any when you earlier threatened to release it as open source.
Finally, and most importantly. If Blizzard can prove that you leaked it, and lied in court, the court can not only find you in contempt, and not only sanction you (lose your case, pay fines, etc), but you could face perjury charges. We're talking jail time here. Are you so sure you could leak it in a way that it would never come back to find you?
If your lawyer is telling the court that you got hacked and the source code was stolen and leaked, then you better not let your own lawyer know that you leaked it. Your lawyer represents you, but is first and foremost an officer of the court and must tell the truth to the judge.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
The fact that the software is called "WoW Glider" and that it is marketed and designed specifically for the sole purpose cheating in WoW carries it safely over the line from "making available" to "inducement to breach the contract."
Don't bring firearms into this, it's a completely different ballpark. They have other legitimate uses.
You know, I always thought that the RIAA and MPAA would destroy
the software industry. I figured that they would push through
laws that suited them and to hell with everyone else. I figured
that they would create laws that burden everyone else that does
something with a microprocessor. I figured that million dollar
Oracle databases would eventually be burdened down with anti-piracy
nonsense to prevent pirates from using old IBMs or Suns.
I didn't think it would be the likes of Blizzard to trash the
industry with really stupid laws or heinously egregious precedents.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
So, the court has found the program can only be used for something illegal, and the company should not be allowed to sell it - but you are fine with they should be able to give it away to others who can then do illegal things with it.
Bit like they arrest a dope dealer then he should be allowed to give his stash away to someone else.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
No, I'd tell them to play the game however they want. The presence of a cheater doesn't change your character, you can just go elsewhere and find your own random monsters.
In fact, a cheater is mostly indistinguishable from a WoW-Addict in that both go up levels far faster than you. The cheater's skills probably aren't as good because they let the bot do the work, so you should probably look at cheaters as big bags of cool toys/cash that are relatively unguarded.
But honestly, getting bent out of shape because other people want to play 80th level content without wading through 20-80th level content. Oh noes! We must use the courts to make people play the game properly!
Here is the key part I recommend looking at:
The Court accordingly will grant summary judgment in favor of Blizzard with respect to liability on the contributory and vicarious copyright infringement claims in Counts II and III.
(emphasis added)
Not contributory means "helped them do it." So they are liable because they helped people violate copyright law, according to the ruling.