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Hot Water, Hot Earth
Calopteryx notes a New Scientist article on the discovery of "supercritical" water emerging from a vent in the Atlantic Ocean at 407 deg. C (765 deg. F). One of its discoverers actually said, "It's water, but not as we know it"; it's the hottest water ever found on earth. The cause seems to be a huge bubble of magma beneath the ocean floor, 3 km below the sea surface. Meanwhile Nymz shares a journal entry on a hot spot on land: a 2-acre patch in Ventura county, in California, that has heated up to 433 deg. C (812 deg. F). Here geologists blame buried hydrocarbons burning as they get access to air through cracks in the ground. That high temperature was measured a foot below the ground surface.
Burning hydrocarbons?! Sounds like a good place to put a combo drill/refinery/gas station!
ON DELETE CASCADE
Pfffft. Sounds like a bunch of hot air to me.
I think I saw a special about black smokers on TV, I believe they were discovered in 1977 and I remember watching an interview of miniature sub (Alvin) pilot explaining that his temperature sensor melted when they came upon one of them and he decided to get a reading. If I recall the anecdote correctly, they were slowly drifting toward it as his friend explained to him that the hull of their craft was made of the same metal as the thermometer. He then very carefully began to operate the propellers in reverse.
I think it was even back then that speculation began of life starting around this geothermal energy. That these minerals only populated the sea and made for nutrient rich sea water in which life could propagate.
The only news here is that the 400 ÂC has been passed on record. I think everyone knew these could get insanely hot.
My work here is dung.
Buy an electric car TODAY people! That petrol is causing the ocean to heat up... Wait, what? Magma? Really? Wasn't that around before we invented cars?
Hang on folks, I'll have to get back to you...
"It's water JIM, but not as we know it". Yeash. If you're going to make pop culture references, at least get them right!
In other news, I vote we go to war against California. They are obviously attempting a scorched earth policy against the world's oil supply. Once we've secured the area, we can bring John Wayne in to take care of the problem.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
an awful lot of effort to go through for some parboiled prawns. The Ventura county site sounds like a great spot for a barbecue, though. Don't even have to bring any charcoal.
We are the 198 proof..
As pressure increases, boiling point rises for (almost?) any substance.
As heat increases, density decreases due to increased movement of the particles.
Therefore, shouldn't water at the bottom of the ocean have an unusually high boiling point - and water which is heated to near that boiling point be much less dense?
To me it seems like they're backing up existing thermodynamic properties with evidence
Well, back to rejecting software patent applications.
Once you put water under enough pressure (think 4000 PSI), you can pump almost an infite amount of heat into it without it undergoing a phase change. Useful for all sorts things, like breaking down any organic compound into constituant atoms. So the water in the story isn't the hottest on earth, only the hottest naturally occuring.
It happens that I'm not far from Fillmore, so I went to see the spot. It was intensely hot, and the smoke emanated from a particular bush. I left a mashed up recording of Jeremy Irons playing on a loop. The recording says "You must lead my people out of captivity and into the promised land."
>Could this conceivably be used to power locomotivators (more commonly known as "iron horses") across large distances on metal rails? This could help solve that whole oil problem!
This could help solve that whale oil problem!
There. Fixed it for you.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
"""
Seriously, though, wouldn't the water just convert to steam at that point, even if it WAS under that much water?
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Not under that amount of pressure.
Plant baked potatos in California?
alias possession='chmod 666 satan && ls
Seriously, though, wouldn't the water just convert to steam at that point, even if it WAS under that much water?
The term "supercritical" doesn't just make a nice-sounding buzzword to toss into the article.
It literally means that you can make no meaningful distinction between the liquid and gaseous phases of the water at that pressure and temperature - You have something between the two phases with no phase-change energy transition separating them.
As an aside, humans use supercritical water all the time, in power plants. This only counts as interesting because we've never seen it occur naturally before (most likely because we don't tend to hang out a lot in places at pressures above 22MPa).
global warming is a myth. hot water from magma is causing the earth to warm.
go back to your long hair and pot, you anti-american pro-global warming hoax hippies!
So can we conclude from this that Ventura==hot air?
Of course, many Minnesotans already knew that... (and others learned it the hard way)
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
I'd say DeBeers might have something to gain by investing in underground carbon storage, though :)
Toss another whale on the barbie!
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Don't buck trend buddy! These days it's called "Global Warming!"
You don't want to piss off the Gore groupies!
Actually there is a reason: it's "supercritical".
For it to turn to steam would require a phase change between it and the surrounding water, and a supercritical fluid by definition has no distinct phase change between the liquid and gasous phases.
You'd think that if the pressure would be high enough, a liquid would stay a liquid at any arbitrary temperature, but that's not what happens. If you have a vessel strong enough to withstand the increasing pressure, and you heat a liquid within it, that has a gasous phase above it, you first see boiling. Then, as the pressure in the gas phase rises, the boiling stops. But, if you keep heating it, an interesting thing happens: the line between liquid and gas phase disappears, and the fluid only has one phase. It is supercritical.
In this case, boiling never starts because the pressure is high to begin with.
Now, the supercritical water is much less dense than seawater (or plain water, for that matter), so it does rise, and if it cools slower than the pressure drops as it rises, yes, it might start to boil.
In Liberty, Rene
"The 812-degree temperature was measured Friday about a foot below the surface."
Buried AND cremated for the price of one.
That should even stop a troll.
hmmm toxic waste dump...
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
WTF?
That was like me saying "Hey, check out my haircut!" with you responding "Yea, my iPhone does that!"
The original article has since been updated with a picture, a map, and even a video. But the 800 degree temperature still lacks a -°-F designation IMO. Here was my original submission:
Ground temperatures exceeding 800 degrees (C? F? HOT!) are being recorded at the Los Padres Forest in Ventura County, California. Geologists are uncertain why, but a popular theory is that hydrocarbons in some form (petroleum, gas, coal) are being exposed to air through cracks formed in dry ground. (Fuel + Oxygen + Heat = Fire Triangle) The last thing California needs are forest fires from below, after so recently fighting off forest fires from lightning above, so fire fighters are closely monitoring the area.
So, what you're saying is... it actually IS water as we know it? Damn, there goes that clever sound bite.
"This thing does science so hard, you say, 'I've never seen that much science.'" -Sam
This isn't the town that had to be condemned because the coal underground was ignited?
That would be Centralia, Pennsylvania
Vent and Seep Communities on the Arctic Seafloor
http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/essay_vogt.html
Boiling Hot Water Found in Frigid Arctic Sea
http://www.livescience.com/environment/080724-black-smokers.html
"Many miles inside the Arctic Circle, scientists have found elusive vents of scalding liquid rising out of the seafloor at temperatures that are more than twice the boiling point of water."
"The cluster of five hydrothermal vents, also called black smokers, were discovered farther north than any others previously identified. The vents, one of which towers four stories high, are located on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge between Greenland and Norway, more than 120 miles farther north than other known vents."
When I first read this article I was immediately reminded of Yellowstone National Park with the phrase "huge bubble of magma". Yellowstone is a well known super volcano. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supervolcano
With over 75% of the earth being water, it seems natural to assume that there are supervolcanos underwater. My question is ... does anyone know and if so what sort of effect do such eruptions have on the marine ecosystem?
This isn't the town that had to be condemned because the coal underground was ignited?
That would be Centralia, Pennsylvania
And that's not the only underground coal fire.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
The CO2 triple point is interesting to watch. The discovery in the article is regarding water hot enough at high enough pressure to cross this point in nature.
Video of CO2 crossing this point is here;
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Carbon+Dioxide+critical&hl=en&emb=0#q=CO2%20phases&hl=en&emb=0
In a nutshell, it's the point where the vapor is just as dense as the liquid state. Watch to video to the triple point.
The truth shall set you free!
I don't know where to post in this thread to help everyone who needs it, but here is the first result from a google search for "water phase diagram".
Phase diagrams are extremely helpful. That red dot in the upper right area is the "critical point", and the dashed phase line is meant to convey that the difference between the phases in no longer meaningful.
The way that many of us were taught about the phases of matter is way too simplistic. "Solid-Liquid-Gas" isn't very helpful once you leave the realm of everyday human experience. If you aren't a physicist, you'll probably have to consult a phase diagram. Intuition is pretty useless.
Well, that post of yours could go either sarcastic or honest. Don't know you so...
At any rate, I recall that in my grade 11 Chem course we did a bit on pressure. The teacher created a "vacuum" over a bowl of water at room temperature and it boiled. That's less than an atmosphere difference and boiling. So, imagine what one more atmosphere would do to the boiling point. It'll go up quite a bit. Now try to imagine how much more pressure than that there is down at that depth i.e. at that pressure, it's really really *really* hard to make something boil.
Beyond that, I /could/ open up one of my Physics books and calculate something, but I'm not exactly that enamoured in this problem to do that. But, if you want to...