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Home Science Under Attack In Massachusetts
An anonymous reader tips a guest posting up on the MAKE Magazine blog by the author of the Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments. It seems that authorities in Massachusetts have raided a home chemistry lab, apparently without a warrant, and made off with all of its contents. Here's the local article from the Worcester Telegram & Gazette. "Victor Deeb, a retired chemist who lives in Marlboro, has finally been allowed to return to his Fremont Street home, after Massachusetts authorities spent three days ransacking his basement lab and making off with its contents. Deeb is not accused of making methamphetamine or other illegal drugs. He's not accused of aiding terrorists, synthesizing explosives, nor even of making illegal fireworks. Deeb fell afoul of the Massachusetts authorities for... doing experiments... Pamela Wilderman, the code enforcement officer for [the Massachusetts town of] Marlboro stated, 'I think Mr. Deeb has crossed a line somewhere. This is not what we would consider to be a customary home occupation.' Allow me to translate Ms. Wilderman's words into plain English: 'Mr. Deeb hasn't actually violated any law or regulation that I can find, but I don't like what he's doing because I'm ignorant and irrationally afraid of chemicals, so I'll abuse my power to steal his property and shut him down.'"
Chemistry for chemistry's sake has been banned all along. Check out this article on how to get your banned pdf copy of one cool 1960s chemistry book with some not-so-cool experiments...
For what it's worth, the comments in the linked article say, "What Victor Deeb was working on is the elimination of Bisphenol A, Bisphenol F, (used in container closure coatings) PVC, pthalates (used in food container sealants) BisPhenol A, Bisphenol F and pthalates ( carcinogens) have been detected in baby food, and Dioxin( a very powerful carcinogen the product of incinerating food container closure to recover the metal) from the environment"
Indeed. Massachusetts, allow me to introduce you to the fourth amendment:
This fellow needs to make sure that the local authorities are smacked down. HARD.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
and also if the original article was actually read before making a sensationalist headline and summary, this isn't as bad as it's made out to be:
1. there was a fire in an air conditioning unit in the home.
2. the fire department responded, and in the course of responding, found hundreds of vials of chemicals.
It's illegal to enter a private residence w/o a warrant, but in this case, the home owner invited the cops in when he called the fire department.
only lesson to be taken home here: hide your stash before calling the cops
The following link is to the "inspections" division of the city where the zealot works. Phone numbers and emails are listed. Just an FYI http://www.marlborough-ma.gov/Gen/MarlboroughMA_Inspection/index
"Allow me to translate Ms. Wilderman's words into plain English: 'Mr. Deeb hasn't actually violated any law or regulation that I can find, but I don't like what he's doing because I'm ignorant and irrationally afraid of chemicals, so I'll abuse my power to steal his property and shut him down."
appears nowhere in the linked article, yet kdawson has chosen to sensationalize by adding his own words and making it look as if they were part of the article.
In fact the article actually states:
"Mr. Deebâ(TM)s home lab likely violated the regulations of many state and local departments, although officials have not yet announced any penalties. "
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
From the article: "Mr. Deeb was doing scientific research and development in a residential area, which is a violation of zoning laws."
After reading the article, I'm pretty unimpressed with the selective quoting in the blurb. Not only were laws broken, but from the description of the house, it sounds like there was at least a little reason to want to investigate, if perhaps not launch a cleanup. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
Joseph Ferson / Department of Environmental Protection / Joseph.Ferson@state.ma.us / 617-654-6523
Read TFA (the original article, not the sensationalist link):
Firefighters found more than 1,500 vials, jars, cans, bottles and boxes in the basement Tuesday afternoon, after they responded to an unrelated fire in an air conditioner on the second floor of the home.
(emphasis mine)
The discovery wasn't a random home invasion, simply the result of doing their job. Much like police can bust you for murder if they see a dead body in your back seat after pulling you over for speeding, the firefighters reported a potentially unsafe violation of zoning and other laws.
Now if it turns out no laws were broken and they still destroy his property, that's screwed up.
$_ = "wftedskaebjgdpjgidbsmnjgcdwatb"; tr/a-z/oh, turtleneck Phrase Jar!/; print
Liked blog is crap. Here is the real story:
http://www.telegram.com/article/20080809/NEWS/808090323/1007/NEWS05
"Firefighters found more than 1,500 vials, jars, cans, bottles and boxes in the basement Tuesday afternoon, after they responded to an unrelated fire in an air conditioner on the second floor of the home.
Vessels of chemicals were all over the furniture and the floor, authorities said. The ensuing investigation involved a state hazardous materials team, fire and police officials, health officials, environmental officials and code enforcement officials. The Deebs were told to stay in a hotel while the slew of officials investigated and emptied the basement. "
They don't need a warrant if they are called in to respond to a fire.
"Firefighters found more than 1,500 vials, jars, cans, bottles and boxes in the basement Tuesday afternoon, after they responded to an unrelated fire in an air conditioner on the second floor of the home."
http://www.telegram.com/article/20080809/NEWS/808090323/1008/
In 30+ years of life, the only people who have directly terrorized me are police officers.
I live in the United States of America.
First I want to make it clear that I am not "taking the city's side" but how can a post be insightful when it makes it abundantly clear that the poster never read the linked article. (Yes, I know this is /.) His home was originally entered by firefighters because of an air conditioner fire, they don't need a warrant when you ask them in to please keep your home from burning down. In the normal course of their duties the firefighters observed, in plain sight, what they reasonably believed could be hazardous materials. They contacted the appropriate authorities.
Second, Mr. Deeb was NEVER placed under arrest or even taken into police custody. He and his wife were asked to stay at a hotel (or some other location) while DEP and hazardous material crews cleared the home.
Except the book is not from the man in the article, it's from the blog author that's stirring up the mess by acting as if this was a big deal while plugging his book.
Usually I would agree that a warrant would be needed, except in this case, the fire department showed up due to a fire at the residence.
According to the Telegram article, the house had a fire in a second floor air conditioning unit, which was responded to by the fire department. It was then that the fire department found the lab in the basement.
Pamela Wilderman, Secretary
Phone: (508) 460-3769
Fax: (508) 624-6504
Pretty much what you'd expect. Looks to be your garden variety petty bureaucrat, overly impressed by her little bit of power.
They didn't bust into the house - they were firefighters responding to a fire; Mr Deeb had called them for assistance. Furthermore, the stuff was lying around in plain sight. So no warrant was needed.
He didn't call the fire department to invite them to his house. He most likely called the local emergency dispatch center (911) and requested help. it is well established that the emergency dispatcher can send whatever help she feels is necessary (car accidents usually get police, fire, and medical, for example). Having a nearby cop without a current call respond to a nearby fire call is not unusual at all. I have worked heavily with emergency dispatch software in the past, and I have talked to lots of dispatch operators-
Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
When the officer says, "This is not what we would consider to be a customary home occupation," he's implying a zoning violation. It can be answered with, "This is not what we consider to be a customary neighborhood nuisance." Zoning laws should protect people from things like junk yards, car dealerships and noisy manufacturing. Going after this man is a stretch of those intentions.
It's like anti FUD with you people. He broke a zoning law. If you read the article, particularly the part where it says...
Pamela A. Wilderman, Marlboro's code enforcement officer, said Mr. Deeb was doing scientific research and development in a residential area, which is a violation of zoning laws. "It is a residential home in a residential neighborhood," she said. "This is Mr. Deeb's hobby. He's still got bunches of ideas. I think Mr. Deeb has crossed a line somewhere. This is not what we would consider to be a customary home occupation. ⦠There are regulations about how much you're supposed to have, how it's detained, how it's disposed of."
...you'd see that he had *WAY* too much stuff in his home AND was breaking the zoning laws by conducting scientific research in a residential neighborhood. I hate the government too, but what I hate more is idiots that spread half-truths. This is one of the latter cases. Print the whole story and it seems like a no brainer, but print half a story, and it feeds the no-brainers.
You'll have that sometimes...
You had to make me look, as I was quite surprised about that law. But here it is: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/criminal_law_enforcement/narcotics/narcprecursor.htm
Not all zoning is dumb. In this case, with as large as chemical fuel load he had in the home, if his house went up it would likely take out the other houses nearby. Zoning helps ensure that when you work on work that is potentially flammable/explosive you minimize the risk to nearby objects.
I AM a fire safety researcher, and I know just how flammable most chemicals can be, especially since it looks like he was doing organic chemistry, which is what I have my doctorate in. I assure you his house (and no one's is) is rated to address the fire risk that would have eventually happened. The fact that he had a fire in his AC tells me that all the fumes from his operation were starting to condense in there and then got activated by a spark in the fan motor.
Since I'm a chemist I'm not happy with how he got treated, but still, he should have known better. While I greatly admire the older chemists for their ability to just tinker, research and work non-stop in the lab, there's a reason why the death rate among chemists has dropped, and its because we don't work like this guy does.
-When going for broke, go for Ithaca!
I contacted Ms. Wilderman, who actually answered her phone. http://www.marlborough-ma.gov/Gen/MarlboroughMA_Inspection/index
Pamela A. Wilderman Code Enforcement Officer 508 460-3765
She stated that the fire department was called for an apparent fire on the 2nd floor of Mr. Deeb's home. This allowed the firemen entry into the house. Upon further investigation (of the basement for a 2nd floor fire) the firemen discovered the chemicals and brought in the authorities.
Ms. Wilderman said "We have zoning laws for this purpose, the firefighters were called into what they thought was a single family residence only to discover unmarked chemicals in the basement, he had a chemistry lab down there, in an area zoned residential". I informed her that I had an electronics lab, and beer brewing equipment in mine to which she made the comment "I bet your neighbors are thrilled about that". Of course I don't think my neighbors even know because they all mind their own business.
Anyway this brings up a series of questions. Were the chemicals truly unmarked? Mr. Deebs is a retired chemist, surely he would practice some type of protocol. Second, if his activity is not illegal where is the justification of not only seizing the items, but then stating they will be disposed of. Will Mr. Deebs be reimbursed. What if they went into the basement and discovered a person to hand loads his own ammunition? It is a perfectly legal hobby practiced by shooters all over the country. Would they have seized those items?
Finally, I would love to hear Mr. Deebs story on this. His reputation is being destroyed over a simple hobby.
I read Slashdot for the headlines, because the headlines, unlike the articles, are usually original and never duplicated
No warrant needed. The firefighters were there fighting the fire, and the chemicals were "In plain sight".
The "Corporation" in the "Corporate State" is a vertical trade guild -- ie, a Syndicate. Fascism is Guild Socialism mixed with Nationalism. Mussolini started out as a Communist, as his father had been. It is NOT the same thing as a corporation in the sense which most people think.
According to the newspaper article "most likely" violated numerous state and local regulations. Nobody is tossing out specifics because the town isn't planning to issue a citation. At issue is "how much you're supposed to have, how it's detained, how it's disposed of" in a residential area. So the issue isn't "experimenting", it's storage, processing and disposal at a facility not zoned for those purposes.
Common sense will show you that the scale of experimentation makes a difference. Making a few quarts of biodiesel or a few bars of soap, that's home experimenting. Making a thousand gallons of biodiesel or a thousand pounds of soap is an industrial process. There isn't a precise line between chemistry set stuff and industrial production, but it's there. Making four gallons of beer a week is a lot for a home brewer, but making a hundred gallons a week probably means you've "crossed some line".
The story doesn't really give us enough details to know whether the raid was justified, or served any public purpose. That depends on what they expected to find, why the expected to find it, and what they actually found, none of which is at this time public knowledge. We don't even know what level of government initiated this, it appears it was the town.
One thing that's almost certain is that the search did not require a warrant. It is what is legally called an "administrative search". According to the dictionary an administrative search is "an inspection or search carried out under a regulatory or statutory scheme esp. in public or commercial premises and usu. to enforce compliance with regulations or laws pertaining to health, safety, or security. One of the fundamental principles of administrative searches is that the government may not use an administrative inspection scheme as a pretext to search for evidence of criminal violations."
So the health inspector doesn't need a warrant to check on the crazy lady who has 200 cats in her house, which is a code violation even if its perfectly permissible for her to have 2 cats, or even 20. Likewise I can have a dog or two, but I can't run a kennel in a densely populated suburban neighborhood unless I have a zoning variance (and possibly pay commercial tax rates).
You can argue that there shouldn't be such thing as zoning regulations. And its probably true that there are many places where there is little or no purpose to them. But zoning laws and administrative searches are NOT unconstitutional, at least by the interpretation of the Constitution that has held sway for a century or more.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Firefighters also have hazardous materials training, and often have to clean up what happens when hazardous materials are not handled properly. They saw something that concerned them, and they reported their concerns to someone who overreacted, but the overreaction is the sole responsibility of the State agency(s) involved, and in no way the firefighters' responsibility. There's plenty of blame to go around, let's not start flinging it indiscriminately.
[command INSERTWITTYQUIP failed: insufficient wit]
Cool book.
What other books are banned from public libraries? There must be a list somewhere.
I found this:
http://title.forbiddenlibrary.com/
and this:
http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/banned-books.html
but, dammit, I've read most of them. Where are the really bad ones?
You can join me in Hell during:
Banned Books Week
Celebrating the Freedom to Read
September 27â"October 4, 2008
http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bannedbooksweek.cfm
You can get it in the grocery store here in Virginia, USA.
Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
Mod points be damned - I'll ditch them to get in on this thread. There's nothing about this story that is intrinsically left- or right-leaning, despite the temptation to apply that often imaginary dichotomy to everything under the sun. It's also not some indication that both liberals and conservatives are out to destroy chemistry as we know it, violating our rights as they go along. I ask the Libertarians to at least tentatively withdraw your attack dogs. Let's examine what we know.
The meat of the case against Mr. Deeb is in this statement, which was not fully quoted in the summary because it comes from the MAKE article, which truncates it:
Pamela A. Wilderman, Marlboro's code enforcement officer, said Mr. Deeb was doing scientific research and development in a residential area, which is a violation of zoning laws.
That's from the source article in the Worcester Telegram & Gazette. It indicates that this wasn't just some dude with a home chemistry set and a nifty hobby; Deebs was doing "research and development." This doesn't make him dangerous, but it's entirely possible that he really was violating local zoning laws. Neither the MAKE article nor the Worcester Telegram & Gazette article specifies which zoning laws were violated, nor which chemicals were involved.
So this may be a case of law enforcement overstepping its authority (and either liberalism or conservatism run amok, depending on whose adherents you think are more likely to try to convince us that chemists in basements are scary), but it may also be a case of Marlboro's "code enforcement" officers following perfectly valid (albeit annoying) zoning laws. Whether or not the laws are overly strict, I don't see anything in this article to indicate that Deeb's fundamental rights were violated ... except the bit about a lack of warrant. The MAKE article has this to say about that alleged Fourth Amendment infraction:
In effect, the Massachusetts authorities have invaded Deeb's lab, apparently without a warrant, and stolen his property. Deeb, presumably under at least the implied threat of further action, has not objected to the warrantless search and the confiscation of his property.
However, the original Worcester Telegram & Gazette article doesn't say anything about the absence of a warrant, and the MAKE article does not cite any other source. If that allegation is true, the Marlboro authorities have some explaining to do. But these sources are too limited to know for sure. I did a search on Google News and found this article, which was the only one about these events that I cound find. While it also mentions that Deeb is cooperating with authorities, it doesn't mention warrants. Fourth Amendment violation? Who knows. Let's all get on with what we were doing before this "firestorm" erupted and reconvene when we have something solid and legitimate to complain about.
If you "consent to search", you've just thrown your Fourth Amedment rights down the toilet for now and forevermore. No more warrant required to search your place; you'ce already consented.
Any good fascist state function due to the hard work of strict compliance officers such as Pam Wilderman. Her work phone is (508) 408-4118. Give her a call and congratulate her on her good work.
http://yetanotherpoliticalrant.blogspot.com
by doing things like this the firefighters are jeopardizing this trust and placing the ability to protect the public safety in danger.
I'm a volunteer fireman and I can tell you all there have been briefings from Homeland Security and other agencies about looking for suspicious materials, not all of it terrorism related. And it's not just us. Mail carriers, delivery drivers, med techs, utility crews, anyone who might be on your property or in your house on any occasional basis.
We do have to be alert for drug labs, but most of the times the cops find them first and have their own hazmat teams.
My question would be if they were working a fire in a window unit on the second floor, what were they doing in the basement?
The rules for household chemicals aren't always real clear. Sounds like the state and local officials over-reacted. Unless there's a specific regulation that covers some compound he was using, it appears like his property was seized without due process. Unless we've taken another step down the road to a police state I don't think you can just declare something looks dangerous and confiscate it. In which case I could walk into anyones garage and start seizing lawn fertilizer, gasoline, paint thinner, ammonia, insecticides and anything else you might normally have around the house. All that stuff looks dangerous to me.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Move to Oregon, dude. The state will actually pay for your euthenasia even when it won't pay for treatment. How advanced is THAT!!
Actually, it's almost impossible for a household not to be breaking this law. If you own a glass container and a heating device (say a coffee pot) and any substance such as allergy medicine or acetone (nail polish remover, anyone) then you have three items on the list and are in violation of the law. In addition, the law states that the act of owning any combination of three items proves intent to manufacture drugs. This law is so broad that everyone has a drug lab and the intent to produce drugs in Texas.
Well when the INHERENT freedoms of the founding fathers were being tread upon by the "Lawful Authorities" they started shooting them. I'm not suggesting it as a recourse only stating that it is a traditional and patriotic American solution.
If you read TFA, you will note that the they did not "choose" to raid the home. Firemen were called to put out a fire in an air conditioning unit. While there, they noticed the lab and called the authorities. Granted, they probably over-reacted, but to the un-trained eyes of a fireman, the lab probably looked pretty scary. After the investigation, officials noted that Mr. Deeb had violated zoning laws and some other minor regulations, but that he had been very cooperative and they were not planning on citing him for any crime.
Hell is other people's code.