Russian Invasion of Georgia Might Jeopardize Space Station

mknewman writes "Sen. Bill Nelson, one of NASA's biggest proponents on the Hill, is openly questioning how Russia's military intervention in Georgia will affect our access to the space station after the Shuttle is retired in 2010. Currently, NASA is able to use Soyuz vehicles for crew access and lifeboat operations thanks to an exemption from the Iran Non-Proliferation Act. The exemption expires in 2011, only one year after the Shuttle is due to head to the museums."

Comments

What?

[Anonymous Coward]

The summary makes absolutely no sense.

Can anyone shed light on what is going on?

Re:What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Clinton signed the Iran Non Proliferation Act penalizing any country doing weapons-related business with Iran. Russia has been selling missiles and nuclear fuel which meant we couldn't do business with them. Hence the exception.

The exception was a tough sell the first time and NASA concerned it's dead in the water when time comes to renew it.

Re:What?

[mea37]

It's about a U.S. law (the Iran Nonproliferation Act), not an international non-proliferation treaty.

Congress has expressly forbidden the U.S. from making ISS-related payments to Russia unless it determines that Russia is taking steps to curb proliferation of weapons technoogy to Iran. On something of a "we have to or we're screwed" basis, they enacted a temporary exemption so we could pay Russia to carry our crewmembers to the ISS.

So when the exemption expires, Russia's authority to launch Soyuz vehicles will not fall under question. US authority to purchase passage on those vehicles will be gone, though.

So:

1) If current events create enough antipathy towards Russia in the US Congress, then they may be unwilling to extend the exemption. Essentially they'd be re-enacting an economic sanction even though we don't have an alternate vendor for the service in question.

2) Even if Congress extends the exemption, there's some question about Russia's ongoing willingness to sell us passage on their rockets (at a reasonable price, or maybe at all) if diplomatic relations worsen.

Re:What?

[martin-boundary]

How do you invade your own territory?

Be careful how you state this. If Georgia has truly invaded its own territory, then it follows that Saakashvili bombed his own people. Saddam was hanged for this.

priorities man!

[Anonymous Coward]

Shit, if germany decided to kill the jews again, CmdrTaco would be wondering how this affects his BMW's warranty.

Re:priorities man!

[eln]

To be fair he did get the extended warranty protection, and that shit ain't cheap.

Russia has ultimate weapon.

[BitterOldGUy]

...somehow since then we aren't allowed to piss them off.

Russia has the greatest weapon of our time: oil. They have more than the Saudis. Nobody is going to piss them off and disrupt their supply.

Re:Russia has ultimate weapon.

[Erwos]

This is exactly it, and it's even more true for Europe. Europe is extremely dependent on Russia for their energy needs. That's why the reaction has been relatively quiet compared to the usual shrill screams that they have when a large country runs roughshod over a smaller one (even one that might have deserved it). It's the same reason they kowtow to the Arab states, and it's the same reason they can't seem to find it in themselves to do anything serious about Iran (notice the comma - I know Iran isn't an Arab state).

You can call it pragmatic or whatever, but I laugh a little every time I hear some smug European government official tell us how he or she is "principled" when it comes to foreign relations. The principle they're practicing ain't the same one they're preaching. The principle is, of course, "advance my country by any means possible". (Which is how it's always been, really.) The Russians and Chinese, however much I dislike their governments, at least tend to be up front about it.

Re:Russia has ultimate weapon.

[steelfood]

Since the fall of the U.S.S.R, Russia's been working hard at westernizing. They're just completing the transition by invading another smaller country for oil under the pretext of national security.

Tongue-in-cheek of course.

Re:NO wonder nerds have a bad rep

[Evilest Doer]

I can't believe that a slight pertubation to the timeline of the hopeless ISS is what really troubles nerds when two countries are at war. Seriously..!

Or, you could look at it this way. Overall human progress is being delayed because two countries are involved in a pissing and "my-dick-is-bigger-than-yours" contest. Or, similar to what Ernest Rutherford said, we've got more important things to worry about than another stupid war.

Re:US manned spaceflight ends in 2010

[Free the Cowards]

The US can't afford it any more.

What bullshit! The US doesn't want to pay it any more. It can certainly afford it. Bringing NASA up to Apollo levels of funding would be a virtually unnoticeable drop in the current federal budget.

Re:American planning in action

[fahrbot-bot]

Russia thinks ahead and plans ahead.

I believe the phrase you're looking for is, "Russians don't take a dump, son, without a plan".
- Adm. Painter, The Hunt for Red October

Ahhh, Permanent UN Security Council members and their toys...

Re:Russia's ressponse was reasonable and justified

[dunkelfalke]

now please explain to me how georgia could kill only 6 people by shelling a sleeping capital city at midnight?

also of note is the fact, that georgia borders chechnya where lots of russian troops are waiting for any action.

Re:Russia's ressponse was reasonable and justified

[Atilla]

Did you get these numbers from a bubble gum machine?

There were about a dozen of Russian peace keeper troops dead, along with over 1500 civilians, all of which died either during the "hailstorm" barrage from Georgia side, or directly by Georgian troops... But who cares about civilians, right?

Re:When push comes to shove

[Bemopolis]

Yeah, US foreign policy has been pretty much spineless when dealing with Russia since Reagans day...

Yeah, I'm sure glad we had the foresight to arm and fund the muhajadin in Afghanistan. I mean, that went great and NEVER AFFECTED US EVER AGAIN...

Re:When push comes to shove

[X.25]

Why don't you ask somebody from Poland, the Baltic States, Finland or Ukraine what they think of recent Russian actions?

Why don't you ask someone from Balkans what they think about US actions in regards of bombing sovereign nation, taking part of their country and allowing it to declare independence?

Re:Russia's ressponse was reasonable and justified

[tomz16]

it should have no effect on our relations. WE should apologize for egging Georgia on./ Those cowards staged a missile attack on a city in the middle of the fucking night. After 10+ years of peace. fuck Georgia, they got what they deserved.

EXACTLY! I've been shocked by the abysmal coverage we've been getting from the major news outlets in the US! I felt sorry for the Georgians until I did some of my own research.

This is a simple story FULL of douchebaggery on all sides...

Background:
- Russia has bad bad bad history with Georgians

- The South Ossetians have wanted to split from Georgia for 10+ years now via several democratic votes, and identify themselves with the Russians (use the same currency, etc.).

- Russia is sympathetic to South Ossetia, and again, HATES GEORGIA.

- Russia has tactical incentive to stop Georgia from joining/bringing NATO into Russia's backyard. They are looking for an excuse to mess Georgia's shit up, and it's no secret.

- Russia has been flexing its war muscle for the past year or two after having run into some petro dollars.

- Georgia doesn't want to let South Ossetia break away, and there has been sporadic fighting in the region related to this fact.

- AGAIN, Russians hate hate hate the Georgians, and are kind of partial to the South Ossetians.

What happened:

- Georgia KNOWS that Russia is amassing troops on the border (big time), and is just looking for an excuse.

- Georgia KNOWS that Russian peacekeepers are in South Ossetia.

- Georgia is counting on the fact that its western ties will keep Russia out... maybe even hoping that we will intervene on their behalf if they start shit.

- Georgia sucker punches South Ossetia in the middle of the night with heavy weaponry (probably supplied by us or our allies). Kills 1500+ civilians, and about a dozen Russian Peacekeepers. (keep in mind that 1,500 civilians is a significant percentage of all South Ossetians, making this a borderline genocidal act)

- Georgia acts all surprised when Russia completely tank fucks them the next day. They act even more surprised when Russia doesn't stop at repelling their attack on South Ossetia and keeps messing their junk up.

- The USA airlifts Georgian troops from Iraq into the theater of combat to fight AGAINST the Russians (SERIOUSLY! WTF GUYS? Let's mind our own business. If you were a Russian, how would you feel about the USA right now?)

and the media reports "Russia invades Georgia"

Bullshit.

The worst part is that if Georgia had actually made it into NATO, we could have very well gotten ourselves tangled up in WWIII here.

p.S. if you need it in pictures :

here

Re:When push comes to shove

[Darinbob]

Kosovo was essentially created by Marshall Tito, as an autonomous region. The borders were drawn to limit Serbian power and domination of Yugoslavia, but it was still majority Albanian. It had never been a part of Serbia properly. Kosovo autonomy was revoked by Milosevic (giving him one extra vote in the Yugoslavian presidency). At which point Albanian was removed as an official language, Serb was taught in the schools, etc. There was a period of resistance, terrorism, crime, etc, after this.

The UN had resolutions regarding Kosovo, there were the Dayton agreements, Kosovo Verification Mission, etc. There was a long time-line here. Both sides were at fault. Things reached a climax after the massacre at Rachak, and NATO decided it had to step in and force a peace; force Serbia and Milosovic to stop acting like thugs, and threaten the KLA to behave or they'd be abandoned, and restore the pre 1990 autonomous status of Kosovo. Further peace talks were attempted. All before any bombing. The bombing was by NATO, an alliance, not a US unilateral action. The US is not the boss of NATO, and NATO was acting in the interests of Europe in this case.

The difference here from Georgia and South Ossetia is the time line and number of parties involved. Russia acted immediately after the attacks on Tskhinvali, with no negotiations, no UN consultations, no diplomacy, no formal protests, no attempted peace process, etc. Russia responded in less than one day. Russia acted unilaterally.

There are very interesting similarities though: Kosovo was never really a part of Serbia, and South Ossetia was never really Georgian, except by the drawing of borders for political reasons. Both Kosovo and South Ossetia had armed separatist/resistance movements. Both Serbia and Georgia attempted harsh crackdowns. Both Serbia and Georgia badly underestimated the backlash that they would get from NATO or Russia.