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Apple's Market Cap Exceeds Google's
Lawrence Person writes "Mac Daily News was one of many Apple-followers to note that Apple Inc.'s market capitalization exceeded Google today. That means that the combined value of all Apple's outstanding shares of stock exceeded the combined value of all Google's outstanding shares of stock. Apple's stock is worth $157 billion and change vs. Google's $156 billion. Other companies Apple has surpassed in market cap include Cisco, HP, and Intel. Also, Apple is now worth 3 times the value of Dell Computer, despite Dell's founder and CEO declaring over a decade ago that if he ran Apple, he'd 'shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders.'"
How can a company with $24B in sales, $3B in profit, and $40B in cash and assets (2007 figures) have a market cap of $160B?
Just taking wild guess here, but... long-term profit projection? Some investors look beyond the next fiscal quarter, you know.
And since Apples cost only twice as much as Dells, this means Apples are cheap!
More seriously: as an Apple shareholder I would like to have some dividend. Pretty pretty please?
Apple is also larger than oracle, sap, and cisco, and nearly as large as IBM. The only tech company larger than Apple by any significant margin is Microsoft; but even then, Apple is more than 60% as large as Microsoft and is growing considerably faster.
How can a company with $24B in sales, $3B in profit, and $40B in cash and assets (2007 figures) have a market cap of $160B?
Most companies trade at a P/E much, much greater than 1. Historically, a P/E of 14 counts as "fair value", the point considered neither high nor low. For comparison, the average for the tech sector as a whole varies over time between 40 (at the height of the bubble) and 25 (currently in that range). Apple, at 35, falls a bit higher than its sector, but not so much that you'd call it extreme.
Google provides services for free?
You've got the model backwards. *You* (and I) are the products Google is selling to advertisers. The freebies are just fluff to keep the product happy.
It's a fair model, and I sound more cynical than I actually am, but it's worth remembering in any dealings with companies like Google.
How can a company with $24B in sales, $3B in profit, and $40B in cash and assets (2007 figures) have a market cap of $160B?
You used the 2007 figures of $3bn profit. The last figures are $4.6bn profit for the last year. That would be 50 percent growth, which is the key factor. Someone posted that you'd need 53 years to make $160bn if you make $3bn profit a year. Obviously we would need to subtract the $40B in cash and assets firsts, leaving $120bn. And divide by $4.6bn per year, making it 26 years which is about equivalent to 3.9% interest per year. But now we have to factor in the growth: If Apple managed the same growth for the next three years, then profit could triple and the 3.9% interest goes up to 12%. That is why Microsoft is valued so low: Because the market doesn't expect any growth anymore.
Uhm. You do realise it's 2008 and not 1998 don't you? MS sold those shares a LONG time ago. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=aapl/
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
Huh? It's right in their 10-Q under Operating Expenses.
Not true. Dividends are merely a way of extracting the value of the stock. The point of investing in equity is that you own a (very very tiny) percentage of the company. If the company becomes worth more and more, then your percentage is worth more. Its got nothing to do with realising value, because you can sell it afterwards.
/. today
If you were to buy alot of gold, and then the gold were to go up in value, would the gold be worth nothing because it didn't excreate gold dust? No, its still worth more than you bought it for so you've made a profit.
applauds himself on the least crap analogy on
Equity is NOT an income, its all about capital growth.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1600894&start=375&tstart=50
We're all trying to get the word out where ever we can. Apple has been silent and unhelpful with reguard to this issue. Many iphones have been locking up since the 2.0 software update. When the iPhone locks up, it must be unlocked by docking it with your pc that contains itunes. This means no 911, no phone calls until you get back home to fix it. You lose all of your data in the proess.
This has happened continuously. Well over 16 times for myself and many others. It is now becoming a daily practice to take an hour to restore the iphone from its "bricked" state.
Please help get this word out. Apple is getting away with murder.
With Dell it is always "devil in details."
Apple has the "attention to details" thing on their product development plan.
I understand that most geeks only look at specs.
But I also consider day to day routine important. And for many things Macs with Mac OS X are magnitude better compared to Dell with Vista. Devil in details, so to say.
Point is, newly bought Mac is ready out of box for average Joe Six-Pack. Newly bought Dell with Vista has to be brought to your geek friend to make out of it something the Joe Six-Pack can use.
You can't like Dell - because it is albeit useful but only a tool. But you can like Apple products because they are made to be liked. And they are also useful. That's why I can easily imaging that some people might get religious over stuff which "Just Works" (c).
P.S. To be frank, I have seen the Macfanboism only in US. US is in particular over-religious place. People get there religious over different things all the time. Apple is literally religious about making good stuff, so some people start following: and it is only logical.
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
I see you worship at the church of Apple.
Or, maybe he provided a well thought-out list of specific, quantifiable, verifiable reasons why Apple is a company worthy of respect. You might want to go re-examine "worship" in the dictionary. (Hint: It does not mean "someone who disagrees with me.")
"We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
>McDonald's food sales compare with the profits from the sale of its unwanted real estate and so on.
Ray Krog is on record as stating that McDonald's core business is PROPERTY - not burgers. As he put it: everyone I ever met can make a better hamburger than McDonalds- none of them are rich though.
What McDonalds did so well was to let you finance the cost of the franchise (with it's massive brand recognition and marketing power) by using the bond on the property where you wanted to put it. The result is that McDonalds corporation now owns many of the most valuable street corners in all the biggest cities in the world: and that lets you finance any other investment you care to make. When the franchise no longer works in the region (it became less residential and more commercial as an area) - you can rent or sell out the property you got there at massive profits over the cost of giving somebody a franchise there ones.
If the franchise never fails, you ultimately end up earning not only repetitive franchise-fees but rent on the property as well !
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
I'm right there with you. I was very happy with the entire idea of apps... and i liked my iphone despite its shortcomings but this problem has remained unfixed. Apple has released a 2.01 update but it did not solve any of these issues. These bugs are all based around the installation of apps through the iphone, crashing of apps, the app store itself on the iphone, and interrupted installs. For example while installing an app on the phone, entering the app store on the phone at the same time "bricks" the phone. I say "bricks" because you can restore it, but you must be home to do it, and its an hour to 2 hour process. Yes itunes is that slow at restoring your phone to a previous backup. That is if you bothered to let itunes back up the phone, because the back up process can take 3+ hours.
The entire iPhone 2.0 experience was really exciting but the truth is, its been a huge disaster for many of us iphone users. Our iphones are not stable anymore.
The last thing anyone wants is an unstable cell phone.
Put it this way.
If you bought Apple now, for $157billion (assuming you could buy all shares) then you would own a company that's got $40billion in cash and is raking in $4.5 billion a quarter - $18 billion a year.
That's a bit like investing $117 in a bank and getting $18 a year interest back, or a greater than 15% return. That's a pretty good return all up.
Just like money in a bank, but shinier and whiter.
Look beyond JUST the quarter.
Such as people who claim that Apple has raised any sort of bar in technology. When has Apple ever innovated anything, or raised any bar? Apple is good at two things: dressing up other people's technology so it looks like Apple made it, and selling other people's technology once it looks like Apple made it.
As for raising the bar, which bar did they raise? Aside from prices, nothing was really raised at all. Their hardware is equivalent to what I am using, and their software can only compete on looks -- for those of us trying to get real work done, Mac OS X is just another expensive proprietary Unix. Yes, proprietary, take a look at the license agreement before you take a look at whatever source code Apple has released. What real value is there in OS X that isn't in...RHEL? *BSD? Minix? I can think of something that RHEL has which OS X does not: an EAL 4 certification (to be fair, OS X 10.3.6 did receive an EAL 3 certification, but there are legitimate and meaningful differences).
Palm trees and 8
Every dollar Apple makes, whether its revenue or profit, is a dollar that doesn't go to Microsoft.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
I would be more worried about an economic recession taking away Apple's market, but if that happens then any stock you choose will be toast.
Lousiest piece of economic advice I've heard today. A recession means a great shift in consumer demand where high-margin "fashionable" products to low-margin "cost concious" goods across the line, both in terms of what products people buy and which products of a given type. If you don't see how that'd affect some stocks way more than others, you should really stay out of it.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Point is, newly bought Mac is ready out of box for average Joe Six-Pack. Newly bought Dell with Vista has to be brought to your geek friend to make out of it something the Joe Six-Pack can use.
Having set up Macs for my family, I have to say: that's a myth. Macs do not come with all the software people need, and finding and installing that software is something "Joe Six-Pack" can't do.
That's why I can easily imaging that some people might get religious over stuff which "Just Works" (c).
Macs do not "just work"; that's a marketing fiction created by Apple. They do work a little better than Windows, but that's a far cry from "just work".
But you can like Apple products because they are made to be liked.
Yes, that they are. They look nice, they have nice themes, the sound nice, and they are nicely packaged. And Apple has successfully created an association in people's minds that their machines are easy to use and are the right choice for smart people who have better things to do with their time than fiddle with computers.
Asus alone sells more Linux machines than Apple sells Macs. The Linux market share is totally overwhelming if you include embedded devices with sales of about 300 million units per year. Of course Apple sells more Macs and iPods than anyone else... ;)
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
SEK = Swedish crowns, or "kronor" in Swedish. 1 SEK is around $0.16.
/ The Arrow
"How lovely you are. So lovely in my straightjacket..." - Nny
Oh, no... Ron Paul is back.
Please take an entry level econ course, and convince Ron to as well.
The total amount of money is NOT limited. Wealth is not finite. Even if you DID hold the money supply constant, then the value of the money would simply go up as wealth was created.
Money is just a means to simplify barter. Don't get too hung up on it's "value". You shouldn't be holding on to piles of cash - especially not under the mattress.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I'm not much of a fanboi, but Apple contributed a few interesting things to OSS, used today in most Linux distributions :
- the Objective-C front-end to GCC, essential to GNUStep
- Bonjour (aka Rendez-Vous), although most distributions have switched to Avahi.
- Lots of patches to konqueror's back end (the same as Safari)
- Darwin, by itself quite significant and in particular allowed the development of the hfs+ driver in Linux.
There are other examples.
I think the OP is confusing AppleCare phone service (which is 90 days) with their actual warranty which is 1-3 years depending on if you buy the AppleCare plan. And as anyone who buys a Apple product knows, you ALWAYS buy the Protection Plan contrary what is normal practice for other electronics. I have gotten 2 brand new laptops out of that extra 200 bucks you pay since they will go through hoops to fix things even if its not entirely their fault.
Which Apple are you talking about? The Apple laptops that I have seen sent to service (the extended service plan was purchased) were repaired and sent back with a bill or saying that the damage was outside the coverage of the warrantee and nothing was repaired. This has happened 6 times (6 different laptops) in the last 4 years.
Why they broke/Apples response
two were dropped/ not covered
one the power adapter broke off inside the laptop/ this laptop was abused so not covered (this was before the magnet ended chargers but still had over a year left on the warrantee)
another a DVD got stuck in the drive (have no idea how this happened but I did watch the user put the disk in it was not forced)/ Apple said the disk was forced causing it to jam in the drive not covered
the last two the hard drive died / Apple said that since we had opened the case to upgrade the RAM the warrantee was voided. These were powerbooks changing the RAM, remove battery, remove 3 screws holding little plate in place (not near hard drive) change RAM, put stuff back.
I am glad it worked for you. But Apple service record around me is not looking so good. And one more thing, I went to an apple store to pick up a replacement cord for my ipod. The ipod worked fine. The genius person there wanted to show me something on my ipod (I only use it for music he said I was under utilizing the ipod). He messes with it. He pluged it into an powerbook he had at his desk. Wiped out all my music since he synced it. Easy to get my music back but annoying. Ever since that day the ipod locks up every 3-4 days. I need to do that reset thing on it to get it to work. The thing is not new, but the timing is very odd.
Sorry for going against all that is golden with Apple but my personal experience with Apple service is not too good.
Where the iPod won it from the competition was ease of use.
Something like an iRier might have more features, and better specs, but have you ever tried to use one? I have.
I got my first Mac a year ago, but the first time I used one was in 1997 and after that I knew I would end up on a Mac eventually.
It was the time of win3.11 and win95, winNT4, (and I think Mac system7). I was at university and helped a lot of people with their computers. I was used to first having to "figure out" someone's computer before I could help them.
I also did some DTP work. At one point my computer couldn't handle what I was doing, and I ended up finishing my project at a professional DTP firm, who happened to also have QuarkXpress but on a big powerful dual head Mac. I was productive from the get go, and if I needed something, it would just be where I'd expect it to be and work intuitively, even outside the software I had experience with on Windows. At that point I understood that Apple is just miles ahead of the competition in UI design.
They are just very good in removing all things from an UI that you don't really need. Some rarely used options and a reduction in choice comes with that, but I'll do without an optic output for my digital music player if it means I have an interface that is easy to use.
RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
Can't resist a challenge!
Mac Book Pro 15":
Black Case
2.5 GHz C2D
2GB RAM
250GB 5400RPM SATA HDD
15.4" Screen, 1440x900, LED backlight
8x DVDR/CDR
Wireless-N
Bluetooth
Dimensions: 1"x14"x10", 5.4 lbs
Price - $2500
Dell Studio 15:
Black Case
2.5 GHz C2D
2GB RAM
250GB 5400RPM SATA HDD
15.4" Screen, 1440x900, LED backlight
8x DVDR/CDR
Wireless-N
Bluetooth
Dimensions: 1"-1.3"x14"x10", 6.1 lbs
Price - $1269
So the Dell is slightly heavier, and slightly thicker at one end, but costs basically half the price. Every other spec I could find is equivalent.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
Adobe and Microsoft apps are fairly renowned for being abominations on the Mac, though if you don't pay attention to Mac nerd circles you'd probably find that out the hard way. When Adobe's stuff works, it works better than it does on Windows (IME). Office, on the other hand, is such complete tripe that I'd rather use a Windows machine, or Parallels/VMware Fusion for those rare situations where only the real Microsoft deal will do.
The developer tools ship on the Leopard DVD (same with Tiger, incidentally).
I've done just fine without a font manager, though colleagues of mine use Linotype FontExplorer X, which is free (and highly-regarded).
And, uh, PuTTY over Terminal.app? Are you serious?
More to the point, Leopard is a UNIX08-certified OSâ"it doesn't get much more standard than that.
Listen⦠if you want Windows, or Linux, then that's what you should use. If you want an actual UNIX OS with a decent GUI, the ability to run Photoshop and Illustrator and some of the best third-party software on _any_ plaform, run Mac OS X.
BSD based operating systems, like OS X and Darwin are not Linux.
Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.