First Public QuakeLive Footage In HD

QuakeMaster33 writes "The first public footage of id Software's upcoming Quake Live title comes in the form of a collection of high definition videos from tournament matches held at QuakeCon 2008. The event held a 1v1 and CTF tournament with prize money totaling $25,000. Included in the video set is the finals match between the 17-year-old Belarusian Alexey "cypher" Yushanevsky and the American John "ZeRo4" Hill. All of the videos are available for download or streaming via Flash video. QuakeLive, which is currently in the public beta testing phase, is a free, web-based version of Quake III Arena which includes updated graphics and gameplay. On the developer front for QuakeLive, id has plans for custom maps, but mod support is far behind. On the Linux front, id Software's resident Linux guru Timothee Bisset is working on the project, so we can only hope that if the game becomes popular, a Linux client is also made available."

Comments

Web based or client/server?

[Anonymous Coward]

If it's web based then why do you need a specific Linux client?

Can't be "web-based"...

[SanityInAnarchy]

"Web-based" would kind of imply that it was all done in HTML/SVG and Javascript -- probably with a dozen audio tags for the effects.

And while that would be really cool to attempt, I don't think you could really match Quake 3 visuals, not to mention the difficulty (impossibility!) of porting a C/OpenGL rendering engine to SVG/JavaScript.

No, this would need to be supported by some sort of plugin -- if it was to be cross-platform, my first guess would be Flash 10, and my second guess would be Java. But both of these would, again, imply a full rewrite.

So it's probably an ActiveX control, which certainly would explain why it's Windows-only.

That or it's a client which embeds a browser, in which case, it can hardly be called "web-based".

Re:Can't be "web-based"...

[Anonymous Coward]

Or it's just a browser plugin, like InstantAction.com.

If it's not Flash, and not Java, why then ActiveX?

Re:Can't be "web-based"...

[neochubbz]

It's a browser plugin, similar to flash or java. If invited you can beta @ www.quakelive.com.

Re:Can't be "web-based"...

[Hadlock]

There is a java port of Quake 2 - called Jake, i believe. Very little is shared between 2 and 3 in the code, but interesting factoid. Runs well on a 1ghz computer.

Re:Can't be "web-based"...

[Anonymous Coward]

I can also say it runs really well even on one of my workstations at work with a generic intel chipset video card (aka the bane of good gaming) at over HD resolutions (24inch 1920 x 1200) at well over 60 frames. It appears to be a small browser plugin you download and then all the maps+art files are downloaded on the fly. From a old school quake 3 player i can say it's just as fast and just as fun.

Something smaller!

[dintech]

Any chance of linking to something that we can actually finish downloading before this story drops off the bottom of the main page?

In HD?

[Red Samurai]

Was this worth mentioning? I mean, most computers already do support HD resolutions, and have for a while now, so HD games on the PC platform are the standard nowadays. I can't help but think this was slapped on as marketing babble to cash in on the current HD craze.

Re:In HD?

[Anonymous Coward]

The "footage" is in HD quality.

Therefore, it's easier to assess the quality vs. the regular Quake III.

Re:In HD?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it's the footage that's in HD. That's remarkable more so than the game being in HD.

Speed

[JoshJ]

Watching that match between the top players was utterly ridiculous. If the game is that fast, there just seems like no way I could get into it. I prefer more strategy-oriented FPSes to ones that are utter twitch gaming like that was.

Re:Speed

[Renderer of Evil]

Yeah, it's too fast and there aren't enough dark corners to set up a camp. I enjoy games where you can outfox your enemies by picking really random places from which you can hit them, especially enemy bases in CTF.

As a sidenote, I don't really like Q3 because the graphics are so childish and dated. The guns look like toys and the characters aren't fleshed out with detail. Unreal Tournament 3 is so much easier on the eyes and the level detail is gorgeous.

Re:Speed

[mobby_6kl]

Well it does seem to be about as fast as the original Q3, thankfully. I like the slower paced tactical FPS about as much as the fast twitchy ones, but the recent FPS trends seriously piss me off. The tactical games are dumbed down (see all Tom Clancy games) while the others are slowed down and overloaded with unnecessary "experience" and "ranks" bullshit. Why yes I'd love to grind XP points for a month just to be able to use the AK-47! It's nice to see that they didn't fuck around with what worked (and actually still works) so well.

What I don't get is why they don't just update Q3 and release it for free, like it's done with some multiplayer-only games. In any case, hopefully the netcode is compatible with the normal Q3:A so I could play the regular version against more opponents.

Re:Speed

[neostorm]

Just thought I'd chime in here to provide a voice for the alternative view: I *love* the speed which they chose to pace the game at. If you go back to Quake 1 or 2 (or even 3, though it's slower), the speed is right on that mark. Rapid, fast-paced twitch action. I can appreciate slower paced FPS titles too, but it's been a long time since we've had an FPS that got back to its roots in those terms. Seriously, when was the last time you saw an FPS at this speed? It's been years, so I was quite happy when I saw the video. FPS's are the fighting games of the PC arena... You've got your super-strategic Street Fighter Alpha, and your hyper-ridiculous-pace of the Versus series. This entry just seems to be the latter.

Re:Speed

[slux]

It may be fast-paced but Quake 3 1v1 (and by extension Quake Live) is very strategy-oriented. The main concern is about controlling the map by denying the powerups from your opponent which can be done by carefully timing the item spawns so the enemy never gets to see them.

Besides that, there are a number of ways you can play the game of course. Hastily engaging or staying back and avoiding confrontations etc.

Re:Speed

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize you're comparing a NINE year old game versus a game released at the tail end of last year, yes? If you were to look back at all the press articles and cover stories when 1999 was breaking news you'd find one superlative after another about how wildly detailed and fantastic the Q3 visuals were at time of their release. Also, Q3 rooted its gameplay in lightning paced deathmatch and CTF action, whereas the Unreal Tournament series has always aimed for a more tactical approach (instagib matches notwithstanding). Both are great fun in their own way. And regarding these championship matches, of *course* you're going to see the extreme use of that twitch sensitive gameplay. Public servers, particularly as the QuakeLive beta grows and becomes more widespread, will certainly create a new playing field where proficiency with a 1600dpi laser mouse isn't necessarily required.

Re:Speed

[ThisNukes4u]

You might want to check out Enemy Territory: Quake Wars(if you're looking for a tactical shooter done right). Its gameplay style is similar to rtcw/original et but with vehicles and huge maps. It does have an experience system but upgrades you earn are only persistent throughout the current campaign(3 maps), and your persistant stats are only for show and record keeping. Saddly its was released around the same time as CoD4 so it never really took off commercially but it has a thriving online playerbase and the metagame is still evolving rapidly. It also runs perfectly in linux(native client and server) with the ati and nvidia proprietary drivers, as well as on freebsd with a bit of tweaking. And you can find it in the bargain bin nowdays for $15-$20

Re:Speed

[imbaczek]

Hey, it's called quake for a reason. It isn't that this game doesn't have tactics, it may be your lack of skill and experience making you fail to notice them. Of course, reflexes and muscle memory is more important, but so is knowledge of the map and ability to time weapons and predict respawns.

Re:Speed

[Daimanta]

Yeah, the XP system was seriously screwed up in CoD4. Starting off with a extremely lame weapon facing people who had the best of the best gear.

That only resulted in people modifying their multiplayer file so everything was unlocked(or playing search and destroy with an infinite timer giving you inf XP)

Re:Speed

[morari]

Id did release the Quake III Arena source code some time ago, so there are at least plenty of free games based on it floating around. You're right though, I would have much preferred an updated and free Q3A over this stuff. Oh well, I'll just continue to play Generations Arena... it's easily the best Q3A mod ever, and it's only getting better!

Re:Speed

[Das Modell]

I'd love to see how TF2 players would react to seeing a game of Quake or Q3A. They'd probably shit their pants and start crying.

Re:Speed

[AlmondMan]

It's Quake. What on earth did you expect? Strategy oriented FPS games are pretty much all crap. Noone knows how to really play them, and the ones that do get TK'd by the rest.

Re:Speed

[LilBlackDemon]

Quake Live *is* Q3 for free, with the only modifications being some advertising (the banners on the walls, etc). Supposedly it is compatible with existing Q3 games, but since I'm not in the beta and I don't have Q3A currently installed, I can't check that personally.

If you want a free Q3 shooter, check out OpenArena or Warsow (but with a funky S symbol that I can't be bothered to look up right now). Both are based on Q3's engine, but are totally free.

Also, id typically doesn't release its games free of charge, but releases their source code once the engine isn't worth the license cost. The gameplay, albeit simple, is pretty long-lasting stuff (go replay the first DOOM game, it's el cheapo on Steam and the full WAD can be dropped into any DOOM engine mod, like ZDoom or Doomsday) so the games have a long tail, but they give back where people can still enjoy it.

PS: Some of the graphical additions made to the engines are insane. Just look at Tenebrae (http://tenebrae.sf.net/) and DarkPlaces (http://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces), both working off the Quake 1 source code.

Re:Speed

[Provocateur]

Exactly what I was thinking. When I see someone playing other FPSes that include 'crawl' or -- dare I say it? walk ferchrissake -- that's hyper realistic, I simply want to smash that monitor. Give me the speed of Quake Classic, anytime, man.

Re:Speed

[Anonymous Coward]

Quake3 is clearly not the game of choice if you're looking for shiny graphics, it's all about the gameplay. Unreal is good too, but in a fairly different way. The Unreal vs Quake thing always reminds me of Street Fighter vs Mortal Kombat back in the day.

Quake and Street Fighter both have smooth, fluid controls, mostly based on moving in circles or arcs. I find these take longer to master, but way more fun when you do and play against other people of similar skill. Unreal and Mortal Kombat both use controls based on double-tapping in different directions. Easier to get into but they don't have the same draw as the more fluid games once you've gotten the hang of them.

Re:Speed

[Das Modell]

It's not just the speed, it's the amount of skill required. You don't get free kills because the game decided that your next rocket is a critical hit (that kills half the server), and you can't just go around flailing around randomly like a moron and still get points. If you don't know what you're doing then tough shit, you lose. Of course, this sort of philosophy does not really appeal to today's casual gamers.

Re:Speed

[Anonymous Coward]

If the game is that fast, there just seems like no way I could get into it. I prefer more strategy-oriented FPSes

LOL... n1

Re:Speed

[Scooter]

Too right - all these "hide behind a box and shoot at each other with endless variations of sniper rifles and other slug throwers" whilst shuffling around the map at the speed of an asthmatic donkey, slavishly carrying out "the mission" really put me off playing FPS.

Let's get back to running around at ludicrous speed like demented Ninjas firing weapons of biblical proportions, in shiny locations, with no plan other than to kill the other guys more than they kill you!

That's not to say there are no subtleties to that plan - Quake (1 2 or 3) is a game where the tactics and strategic objectives aren't so bloomin obvious, that they're spelt out in the manual!

Or maybe my attention span has shortened with age :P

Re:Speed

[spire3661]

Actually read an interview about this where they said they are integrating more Arena into this. Basically its the best of Q3 incl. Arena. They felt not enough people really got to see the Arena stuff the first go around.

Re:Speed

[ozphx]

TF2.

Try the free (next) weekend.

Re:Speed

[morari]

You mean "Team Arena", the Quake III Arena expansion pack? I also read that... somewhere. If so, that's good, as I do think Team Arena had many decent ideas. Ultimately, I believe that the expansion pack suffered from simply being too little, too late.

Re:Speed

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. In COD4 you are competitive from level 1 with MP5, Stopping Power, and Steady Aim.

Re:Speed

[thinsoldier]

There aren't that many people in existence who can play at the level of those in these tournaments. I've heard they're working on a decent match-making system so people of comparable skill should _always_ wind up playing together.

Re:Speed

[thinsoldier]

The double-tapping thing didn't appear until UT2003. Quake 1, 2, & 3 are very comparable to UT99. Deathmatch is deathmatch and I'd say UT99 deathmatch was even more fast-paced, random, frantic, fun, and spammy than any other game. The quake games had the element of bunny hopping that became a core element of many advanced players strategies while UT2003 added the strategic element of powerup pills that allowed you to activate a special-ability once you collected 100 of them.

Re:Speed

[thinsoldier]

I find UT3 to be overly detailed and greatly dislike the fact that it's art direction makes it feel like the neglected bastard half-brother of Gears of War instead of an actual sequel to either ut99 or ut2k4. I disagree with your opinions on the character and weapon execution but I agree that they should have considered fleshing out a bit more of the details because if you look close at the environments and characters (wearing your 1999 goggles) they really are great concepts and it would have been nice if they were updated to a ut2004 level of detail.

Re:Speed

[thinsoldier]

Q3:TA had 2 of the best CTF maps ever! And kamikaze!!!!!!

Re:Speed

[thinsoldier]

WOW! I completely forgot about Generations Arena. I thought it died or something! (...I think I now regret spending all that money on a 4870 last week)

Re:Speed

[Anonymous Coward]

>UT99

Which is the last UT which could be considered to be on the same level (or better) than Quake.

UT2004 is mostly interesting because of Onslaught.

Re:Speed

[Robmonster]

You could dodge in UT99, which was triggered by a double-tap.

It wasn't enabled by default though so lots of players missed it.

Re:Speed

[TheLink]

"speed of Quake"

Hehe. I wonder how JoshJ would have enjoyed watching doom2 deathmatches.

When I moved from doom to quake, the first thing that struck me was how slow you moved.

Doom is a game where you can run almost as fast as the projectile weapons without any tricks. And faster with wall hugging etc. Now that was arcade action.

Of course with some hopping and some optional rocket "boosts", you can achieve really high speeds in Quake/Quakeworld.

Anyone who wants realistic has no clue. Nobody wants to be dropped in the wrong zone - 20 km away from where you are supposed to be, and have to slash your way through the jungle for hours, only to die in the first few seconds of a battle, never to respawn ever again.

What would be nice would be another Aliens vs Predator game with Crysis-level technology, and the game should allow the predator to actually climb most stuff (predators couldn't climb up trees or walls in AVP2, only the "aliens" could).
Predators should be allowed to climb most surfaces but a lot slower than "aliens" - and even hang from ceilings - they have those special claws after all.

Re:Speed

[TheRaven64]

When Quake 3 was released, I had exactly the same comments about the visuals and the sounds. The guns in Quake looked and sounded heavier, like real weapons. The games in Q3 (and Q2 to a lesser extent) seemed lighter and more toylike. Q3 just made everything look like cheap plastic to me. Possibly this is why I still play Q1, but can't remember the last time I played any of the sequels.

Re:Speed

[TheRaven64]

Did you ever play the first Rainbow 6? We tried it in multiplayer a few times. Fifteen minutes of getting into position, followed by about twenty seconds of firefight. Probably very realistic, but certainly not fun.

The thing that really made Quake 1 was all of the mods. The game itself wasn't fun for more than half an hour to an hour at a time, but you could intersperse it with Team Fortress, Quake Rally, AirQuake, Quake Horrorshow, Pain Keep, or if you wanted Quake-like gameplay taken to extremes, Killer Quake Patch (a mod where every weapon had about a dozen alternate modes).

Re:Speed

[arkhan_jg]

After some time away 'on vacation' playing tf2, coming back to Q3A and UT3 at a lan party, it did feel like I needed to be on a high dose mix of ritalin and caffeine to keep up.

Re:Speed

[Anonymous Coward]

Warsow is built on a heavily modified version of the Quake 2 engine called Qfusion, not Quake 3.

Re:Speed

[dnaumov]

There is a truckload of strategy involved in playing a fast online FPS at professional level. Additionally, camping behind some door with a sniper rifle does not strategy make. Thank god there are still some FPS developers out there who actually make games that demand skill in order to get kills in an online game.

If Quake Live is fast for you, I'd love to see you try to wrap your head around the action that goes on in QuakeWorld.

Re:Speed

[KovaaK]

Amen to that. I don't want to say that there is absolutely no interesting strategy in realistic-ish FPS games, but it is incredibly weak compared to a deathmatch game in a 1on1, 2on2, or 4on4 setting where everyone involved has a solid understanding of what is important. People who spend the time to figure out tricks to deathmatch games always find creative ways to achieve their goals and deceive their enemies.

Re:Speed

[Ilgaz]

You know, there are like billion of drivers on planet but only handful of Formula 1 and NASCAR drivers.

I was once very lucky to play Q3A with top end players of my country, they were at some party or something and I decided to sit and watch rather than playing. Funny is, those guys can also manage not to shoot the noob (you) while killing each other in all that chaos.

Watching such top end players shouldn't make you think that the game is played that way. It is like not playing chess because you watch how Kasparov plays.

If you want pure strategy oriented FPS, World War II is the way to go but be prepared for 3-4 hour missions which you end up with a bullet in head accomplishing nothing :)
http://www.wwiionline.com/

Re:Speed

[Xamataca]

TF2.

Try the free (next) weekend.

QWTF

Open Source? PK3?

[Anonymous Coward]

Since the Q3 engine was open-sourced, do they have the right to make a new closed-source client?

After viewing these videos, it appears it's quite far from the "new, enhanced quake 3" we were told about: except for the new maps and the chaingun, I cant see any of the new things that are already included in many FOSS ports: blend mapping, bloom, blurring, dynamic lighting,...

Therefore, as the engine appears to be almost untouched, what happens if someone makes a rip-off open-source client?

Re:Open Source? PK3?

[Constantine XVI]

Yes. They still hold the copyright, they can do whatever they damn well please with the code, which they still own.

Re:Open Source? PK3?

[hr.wien]

Of course they have the right. They own the copyright. They can do whatever they damn well please.

Re:Open Source? PK3?

[Das Modell]

So... why exactly was this modded troll?

Re:Open Source? PK3?

[spire3661]

Someone can certainly make a rip off using the source code, they just cant call it anything close to quake.

Re:Open Source? PK3?

[ozphx]

-1 Suggestion Of Existance of IP ;)

Re:Open Source? PK3?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think this is very interesting situation. ioquake3 has been making improvements to the Quake3 engine for some time now, but since these improvements are under GPL, they can't be used in Quake Live without releasing it under GPL too (or getting permission to use the improvements from the individuals who developed them). So while id software still can do whatever they want with the Quake3 code they developed themselves, they can't use the community improvements.

I wonder if Carmack and/or id software in general ever thought of this when releasing the source code under GPL. I guess they never really expected to continue developing the Quake3 codebase themselves. Or does it not bother them at all to not be able to use all the community fixes/improvements? Maybe they are not _that_ important? But still, id probably was just sitting on the code themselves for a year or two while ioquake3 was pushing things forward, and then id suddenly got the idea for Quake Live. And what did they have at that point? The same old Quake3 code they hadn't touched for a while.

Re:Open Source? PK3?

[WWWWolf]

Since the Q3 engine was open-sourced, do they have the right to make a new closed-source client? After viewing these videos, it appears it's quite far from the "new, enhanced quake 3" we were told about: except for the new maps and the chaingun, I cant see any of the new things that are already included in many FOSS ports: blend mapping, bloom, blurring, dynamic lighting,...

As others have said, id is the copyright holder of the original Q3A code, so they can do whatever the heck they want with it. However, the big thing to remember is that, by default, you have the copyright to your code: If you contribute to a Q3A-based OSS project, you retain the copyright, it doesn't get transferred to id unless there's a specific contract. Therefore, id can't use, without permission, the stuff that has appeared in other Q3A-based projects. They'd have to either negotiate a permission from the authors to include the code in a their closed tree, or reimplement the features themselves.

Therefore, as the engine appears to be almost untouched, what happens if someone makes a rip-off open-source client?

The only thing id can do to prevent that eventuality is to use EULAs or technical measures. After all, it's their servers.

Am I missing something?

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't this just plain Quake 3 (Arena)?

cybersport angle, technology angle

[SMOKEING]

The comment by JoshJ above leaves me puzzled somewhat, by the naive expectations of the poster.

In the long course of Q3 history as a cybersport discipline, the skill range between just a casual player and a pro like Cooller or Cypher, has grown miles. Meaning, further, even though with QuakeLive id takes apparent steps to bring Q3 for the masses, don't expect the gameplay to be immediately appealing to an uninitiated spectator: it really takes nearly equal skill to appreciate a match between masters. This harks back to Q3's reputation as a game for the few chosen ones--unlike counter-strike, for example.

Perhaps exposing a competition, ie., non-technology angle of QuakeLive here at /. would garner a wild assortment of reactions, but barely anything truly "Insightful".

Re:cybersport angle, technology angle

[slux]

Takes nearly equal skill to appreciate a match between the masters? Bullshit. I've been following the competetive 1v1 scene for a long time and I sure as hell don't have that kind of skill but I can still see when someone's skill is unbeliveable just like I can when I watch a sport like hockey. I may miss some details but I can still appreciate it and see a difference between the lesser and better players.

Pussy Nazi Sez ...

[Anonymous Coward]

No pussy for YOU!

Graphics vs Gameplay

[DemonCat]

Quake3 is clearly not the game of choice if you're looking for shiny graphics, it's all about the gameplay.

Funny, when Quake 3 was new it was seen largely as a shiny engine that was *mostly* about the graphics. The gameplay was basically a rehash of Quake 1 & deathmatch. People looking for interesting gameplay at the time were holding out for Q3-engine license games like Alice.

Re:Speed=WODX

[indi0144]

I have what you need!! http://www.netdoo.com/wodx/ it has a light saber .. do I have to add something else? ok shamblers, ieds, laser mines, 6 diff air raids, and frantic action. I recommend using the r1q2 client. Has a growing community too. Who needs more than Q2 btw??

WRONG!!!!!

[Khyber]

Dodging was in the original Unreal and is a staple for the gameplay.

Re:WRONG!!!!!

[thinsoldier]

Seriously? No wonder I sucked so bad. Nah, can't be. Seriously? I've gotta check this out as soon as I get home.

Re:WRONG!!!!!

[Khyber]

Yea, the Skarrj dodge, you have the option of turning dodging on or off in the main menu (or if you're a tweaker you can bring up the GUI console and find that option plus many other options to tweak)

Unreal owns the concept of the Double-tap dodge (kinda like how ET did the double-tap forward-crouch prone)