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Leaping the Uncanny Valley

reachums submits this glance at "the newest level of computer animation," intended to get past the paradoxical "uncanny valley" — that is, the way animated humans actually can appear jarring as the animation gets hyper-realistic. "This short video gives us a glimpse of what we can hope to see in the future of computer games and movies. Emily is not a real actress, but she looks like a real person, something we haven't truly seen before in computer animation."

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  1. We've heard this before by CRCulver · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There was much talk about the uncanny value when Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within came out after Square had promised for years that it would have realistic humans. A common criticism was that the human beings were real enough to inspire comfort for long enough that one would be then shaken by their lack of certain flexibility and the bloodlessness of their faces. Dr Aki was more creepy than sexy.

    1. Re:We've heard this before by Narpak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well I guess it can be credited with pushing the limit a bit. Realism has always been a very subjective concept within the computer game industry. Without offering any examples I feel certain I have read advertisement and reviews talking about "level of realism" since games began offering Jumping.

    2. Re:We've heard this before by PunditGuy · · Score: 5, Funny

      Dr Aki was more creepy than sexy.

      "More creepy than sexy" -- four words that sum up most of the anime I've been subjected to. But if that's going to be the criteria under which we judge the depth of the uncanny valley, some people are going to navigate it a lot faster than others.

    3. Re:We've heard this before by gabec · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not to distract from the point but... What's wrong with her nose, and why doesn't it move with the rest of her face?

    4. Re:We've heard this before by Darundal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, for me the lips were off. Most of the time they were fine, but sometimes they would get a little too wide, or their shape would be slightly off.

    5. Re:We've heard this before by Americium · · Score: 5, Funny

      Just go to L.A. , there are much more fake looking lips on the women there

    6. Re:We've heard this before by AbsoluteXyro · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They did seem to float around a bit... also, if only her face is computer animated, then I am not impressed. "Uncanny Valley" is not all about facial animation.

    7. Re:We've heard this before by ndrw · · Score: 5, Funny

      "More creepy than sexy" -- four words that sum up most of the women I've been subjected to.

      Actually, it's probably: "More creepy than sexy" -- four words that sum up most of the reactions of the women who've been subjected to me.

    8. Re:We've heard this before by The+Angry+Mick · · Score: 4, Funny

      "More creepy than sexy" -- four words that sum up most of the anime I've been subjected to.

      Yes, but you are talking about anime - the same animation style that introduced the world to tentacle porn.

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    9. Re:We've heard this before by fireboy1919 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're just imagining things. The real Emily undoubtedly sometimes opens her mouth a little too wide...probably moves centered around her nose.

      If you pay attention to the video, you'll notice that they flat-out said that it isn't computer generated imagery. They're just doing face tracking without using markers and mapping that to a mesh.

      Big deal. People do that now and get extremely realistic (perfect) results. All you need is two cameras.

      It would be interesting if they were actually generating models from this that could work independently (i.e., get CGI-Emily to move in a way that real Emily hasn't been recorded as moving), but they aren't claiming that they can do that...so they probably aren't.

      Would it be easy to film somebody with a 3d camera setup and shove them into a video game? Well, I suppose there are a few technical challenges in the sense that there aren't any 3d-movie inside-videogame codecs, but its nowhere near as impressive as the headline makes it out to be.

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    10. Re:We've heard this before by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dr Aki was more creepy than sexy.

      "More creepy than sexy" -- four words that sum up most of the anime I've been subjected to.

      Aw man, they forced you to watch Haruhi? :(

  2. Not really animation by neverutterwhen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From what i understood, this is simply an easier kind of motion capture that works straight from video without the need for sensors etc. That's not the same as creative animation, you still need a real person talking and moving.

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    1. Re:Not really animation by Gotung · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yea all this does is invalidate video as proof of anything. Now you create a clip of Barack Obama planting a UED in Iraq, or John McCain visiting a gay dance club.

      All you need is video of somebody of similar build and you can put anybodies face on it.

    2. Re:Not really animation by argStyopa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly. This isn't precisely computer animation, it's motion capture minus a lot of steps.

      --
      -Styopa
    3. Re:Not really animation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      At least it wasn't an IUD.

    4. Re:Not really animation by Alzheimers · · Score: 2, Funny

      Want controversy?

      IUD.

    5. Re:Not really animation by niceone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And am I right in thinking that on that video they only animated the face? The rest is real video?

    6. Re:Not really animation by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      From what i understood, this is simply an easier kind of motion capture that works straight from video without the need for sensors etc. That's not the same as creative animation, you still need a real person talking and moving.

      I haven't seen motion capture look this good. But anyway, the point of this is that you could, for example, use a cheap (read: plain) actress for the recording of scenes, and then animate the perfect, beautiful princess character using her mannerisms. Let's face it -- actors get paid the big bucks for their looks, and not so much their talent. There is a hell of lot of acting talent out there that doesn't necessarily have the right "look".

      --
      Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
  3. It's very close. by BJH · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not quite 100%, though. It still has the same problem as almost all previous attempts - the eyeblinks don't look right.
    I don't know quite what it is - too slow? The eyelids always meet in the same place? - but it's the one thing that screams "fake" to me.

    1. Re:It's very close. by philspear · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The eyes look strange on their own. I can't quite put my finger on it, which I guess is part of why the uncanny valley is disturbing. But you're right, the blinks aren't quite right either.

    2. Re:It's very close. by gnarlyhotep · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Add to that: the smiles are all just the mouth smiling. If you watch someone smile, it's a complete facial expression, not just the lips changing orientation to the horizontal axis. The eyes narrow and cant upward at the outside, cheeks change shape slightly due to muscle tensions, hell the hairline and ears even move slightly. This is all lacking.

      Add to that, it's really hard to tell just how good the animation is on some crappy low-res youtube clip of 5 second sections of her. Give me a good 5 minute, high rez, large clip and it'll be much easier to tell just how good it is.

    3. Re:It's very close. by religious+freak · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Agreed. At first glance, she looks attractive, but then you notice something off. I can't figure it out either. Maybe the skin is just too perfect - or too much makeup?

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    4. Re:It's very close. by ShadeARG · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's what I thought as well until I saw it in higher quality.

      A higher quality version of the video can be found here.

      It's not perfect, but it certainly is climbing high up out of the uncanny valley to say the least.

    5. Re:It's very close. by ggvaidya · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I noticed the same thing, but I really don't think it would have "jumped out" at me if I hadn't been looking out for something fake - I'd just have assumed that "Emily" had strange expressions.

      I think Small Furry Creature is on the right track - the uncannyness of the valley isn't "people" looking almost-but-not-quite-right, it's our physics assumptions failing - when fat on someone's face doesn't move the right way, hair doesn't fall the way we expect it to, and so on. They got around that in this video by using real background video everywhere except for the face, so there are fewer cues for us to notice physics going wrong - except, as you point out, the eyelids. That's how they got around the uncanny valley, imnsho.

    6. Re:It's very close. by orb_fan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No it's not - the technique uses image processing to capture motion, not for generating photo-realistic images. The video shows Emily (a real person) talking, only at the end of the video do they show the results of their capture software by overlaying the generated images over Emily's face. This is Motion Capture not CGI.

    7. Re:It's very close. by UncleTogie · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Where's her tongue?

      Maybe it's the grainy movie, but as a lip-reader, it caught my eye... that, and many face "wrinkles" that usually appear when smiling, frowning, or even raising your eyebrows seems to be missing as well...

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    8. Re:It's very close. by DriedClexler · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, I would say the eyes are what throw it off, and as they admit, the eyes are the hard part. But you really have to hand it to them: as "off" as the eyes were, I don't think they were so far off as to be a give-away. They simply made the girl look kind of "disconnected", like she's distracted by something on her mind. She actually wasn't that different from real people I've seen. In a fair test, I don't think I'd be able to pick her out. Say, give me five videos, any number of which could be fake and I have to spot the real ones. (Unless of course the real ones deliberately exaggerate their facial expressions.)

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    9. Re:It's very close. by riceboy50 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You sir are totally correct. Everyone wants to prove that they'll always know what's fake and what's real but, as you said, they're full of it.

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    10. Re:It's very close. by smaddox · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I just think the CG face is to flat. Her teeth, lips and eyelids have no volume.

      For instance, her eyelids seem to be in the same plane as her eyes, which is not at all realistic.

      On the other hand, her eyebrows and nose were perfect.

  4. Re:Wow by mingot · · Score: 2, Funny

    Sammy Davis Jr?

  5. It's more convincing than... by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...many flesh-and-blood actors I've seen.

    In a discussion elsewhere, someone stated that the facial animation was good, but the body movement was unrealistic. Since the body movement was actually a live actor, I'd say that this was analogous to a passed Turing test -- an observer couldn't tell which parts were animated and which parts were human. (It's a weak analogy, of course, since there was no interaction.)

    1. Re:It's more convincing than... by ivan256 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Is a Turing test valid if the human is an idiot?

      It's ridiculously clear from the video that the face was the "animated" bit.

    2. Re:It's more convincing than... by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In a discussion elsewhere, someone stated that the facial animation was good, but the body movement was unrealistic. Since the body movement was actually a live actor,[...]

      I noticed, too, that there seemed to be too much weird movement. I actually suspect that's due to the real actress hamming it up too much for the capturing process, trying too hard to make it natural. I bet if they used someone who didn't know what it was for, it would've come out better.

      --
      Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
  6. End of blah blah by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just as synthesizers were the end of "real" musicians, photography was the end of "real" paintings, etc.

    1. Re:End of blah blah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Does that mean this is the end of real people?

    2. Re:End of blah blah by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just as synthesizers were the end of "real" musicians, photography was the end of "real" paintings, etc.

      It could easily be argued that pitch correction and sampling ruined popular music, and things like photoshop and other image modifications have ruined the visual arts.

  7. They failed, and they're lying. by ivan256 · · Score: 4, Informative

    First off, they failed at getting passed the "uncanny valley". That video is still creepy looking.

    Second, this isn't computer animation. It's just video processing. If you still need to do high resolution motion capture to produce your images, you haven't replaced the actor. You've merely edited their appearance in the performance. They didn't even bother to go so far as to take the captured motion and paste key bits of it together into the speech. They just had her sit there and say the whole thing, then "rendered" it.

    Lame.

  8. Not a good test by SIGFPE · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Motion capture a face and rerender it from the same viewpoint as a camera used to capture the texture and you'll trivially get something almost indistinguishable from the original. It's only a valid test if you change something significant: move the camera, change the lighting, change the facial features or change the performance.

    --
    -- SIGFPE
    1. Re:Not a good test by verbamour · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think the measure of the technique is, "how different does Emily look than the actor who supplied the base footage?"

      For example, could they make me look like a sixteen year old boy like I portray when I'm chatting?

      Oh, wait, I meant to post that anonymously...

      Undo, undo, undo!!!

  9. Wow, quite amazing. by anomnomnomymous · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am amazed at the quality of this animation: Still, I could see there was -something- wrong with her, but could not put my finger on it. (this was of course also influenced since I -knew- she was fake before watching the vid).

    Btw, here's a direct link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLiX5d3rC6o
    Be sure to tick the 'Watch in high quality' when the video opens (anyone knows a way to do that automatically in a link?)

    --
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    1. Re:Wow, quite amazing. by cheesecake23 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Be sure to tick the 'Watch in high quality' when the video opens (anyone knows a way to do that automatically in a link?)

      Add '&fmt=6' after the link. Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLiX5d3rC6o&fmt=6

    2. Re:Wow, quite amazing. by hey! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think the question is exactly what are they faking?

      It seems they're building the face images out of a data model. They've done a good job on things like skin (a very complex biological structure). But where did they get the model? From an actress. So it's something like turning Andy Serkis in to Gollum, only more streamlined from a workflow standpoint.

      When they can build the model from general instructions ("OK, 'Emily' should look angry here.") then they've got something which is, in a sense, scientifically impressive. But for now, they have something which is technologically impressive.

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  10. Re:Uncanny mask by vertinox · · Score: 3, Funny

    So gluing an weird uncanny mask on an actors face will be the future of animation?

    Considering the quality of acting these days by Hollywood, anything that obstructs their faces would be an improvement.

    --
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  11. Yup by nine-times · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'd say it's past the uncanny valley. That's not to say that I can't tell it's fake. She looks a little fake. Something is wrong-- her face is too still or something. But she doesn't look like a zombie. She's not distractingly creepy. That's all they're really shooting for at the moment, right?

  12. Different types of faces? by JakeD409 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wonder if certain faces work better with this technology than others. Perhaps younger, smoother faces (like "Emily") work better than old, wrinkly faces, since they can get an accurate representation of skin texture without as much complexity.

  13. How true was this? by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I got the feeling it was just a few people who complained but the meme got picked up and then it became 'cool' to say that.

    Do stuffed animals instantly create a sense of revulsion? Not really else they wouldn't have been around for so long yet this is the ultimate uncanny valley item. As close to the living thing as you can get, fully posed as if it is alive, yet a rotting corpse nonethless.

    If you ever dealt with real corpses you would know that they really ain't all this disgusting, it is so easy to get used to it that you might be temped to think that the so called natural revulsion is just media installed reaction.

    If the uncanny valley really exist, then please explain realistic paintings that have been around for ages, artisit have tried for hundred of years to create realistic images of human beings and we admire their efforts without any sense of revulsion. Same with statues. Do we feel uneasy at madam Thussauds?

    Yes we do NOTICE it when a seemingly realistic thing behaves unrealistic but I have the same sense when I see a car in a computer cut scene that doesn't obey the laws of physics and for instance slides.

    It has nothing to do with the uncanny valley, if a real human being was holding a glass of water that didn't spill when tipped over you would get the same feeling.

    We know how things work and when they don't we get upset. The trick that cartoons and such pull is that they say right up front by their looks that they are not real and therefor things don't have to work as we expect it.

    That was the problem with Final Fantasy, it tried to be a human drama and then didn't use human emotions on the faces of the actors. IF it had been a pure action flick with no close-ups there wouldn't have been a problem. It wasn't the uncanny valley, it was just bad acting, if it had been done by humans who could act we would have felt the same.

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    1. Re:How true was this? by Travis+Mansbridge · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Many of the examples you've given don't cross over into "uncanny valley" territory - nobody would get stuffed animals confused with real animals, or people. The things considered to be in the "uncanny valley" are generally attempts at photorealistic humans that get close enough to confuse the observer, and then turn disturbing when they act in an unnatural way. It is similar to your glass of water example, however this is cognitive dissonance on a higher level, because it's dealing with "real" people and sometimes "real" emotions.

    2. Re:How true was this? by ReverendLoki · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, stuffed animals are a good example outside the uncanny valley. Remember, we are talking just about human appearance and action, not animal.

      Regarding realistic paintings and statues - yes, they do look like humans, and I would say they reach past the valley on that point, but they don't act like humans. I would also suggest that it is easier for us right now to transcend the valley in appearance than it is to do so in action, if for no other reason because we've had more practice.

      Wax figures are another good example. Madame Tussaud's wax figures are excellent representations of the human form - but again, they don't act human, which makes the valley easier to surpass. However, have you ever been to a bad wax museum? I have seen some pretty bad wax figures as well, and they trigger the uneasiness that this theory suggest an inanimate object in this valley would.

      As far as cartoons, the physics-defying glass of water - these are all non-human representations, and thus not covered by this theory.

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    3. Re:How true was this? by Chyeld · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think you misunderstand the uncanny valley concept. In fact, your entire rebuttal is mostly a restatement of the concept itself.

      The point is the more realistic something is, the more disturbing any 'defects' in it's simulation are. Stuffed animals don't breath, they don't move, they don't growl. Neither do paintings. These things may be realistic in the sense that they portray a snapshot of the thing they are based on, but they don't come anywhere close actually convincing you that they ARE the thing they were based on. I don't know of anyone who would mistake a stuffed bob cat sitting in someone's den or a museum as the real thing for more than a few seconds. Likewise, people pretty much know when they are looking at a painting or even a photo.

      All of those things are on the 'safe' side of the valley. The problem comes when you start getting things that move, sound, and mostly act as if they are alive but clearly aren't. Your actor with the no-spill glass would be in the valley, so to would be photorealistic computer models that didn't have facial expressions when they spoke (ala FF).

      And for the record, while the uncanny valley was popularized by talking about computer generated graphics, it was actually coined by a roboticst back in the 70's, and was based on an idea first presented by Freud in the 1910's.

    4. Re:How true was this? by sam0737 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      To back up what you said...

      I have a friend who is proficient in performing table magic. One time he was performing that to a more traditional-thinking Chinese Woman in 40's and she was VERY SCARED and linking that to superstition and seriously advise my friend not playing "that thing" because it's "ghost-involving" etc.

    5. Re:How true was this? by StewartBell · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Important to note that the only part of the video that looks completely normal is the behavior of the head, the arms, the breathing of the torso-essentially everything done by the actual human. I'd be surprised if you felt absolutely no (at least confusion if not revulsion) watching the video. The face was interesting to me, but I was blown away by how realistic the hair looked, how realistic the arm movements--until I realized that that was all still a regular human being. Then, when I focused in on the face alone, it simply looked animated, and if not disgusting, at least completely out of place.

      I think the general feeling, even if it isn't an all-out feeling of disgust, is one that things are...not...right. Ultimately, I think this is a pretty bad example, though, since Emily is touted as being "not real" but in fact the majority of the body language--the stuff we are tuned into almost subconsciously--is still human. I think if this video skips by any general feeling of revulsion, disgust, or out of place-ness, it is specifically because there are still physical human elements in it.

    6. Re:How true was this? by Steauengeglase · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd say it is pretty hard to dispute. We need mechanisms for identifying someone with say, the early stages of leprosy or birth defects (finding the right mate, etc.).

    7. Re:How true was this? by Tekfactory · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Um, he's talking stuffed animals as in Taxidermy, not Beany babies. Actually the comment on painters is they approximate skin color and lighting values and even very realistic masters aren't mistaken for photographs. Photo realistic 3D is close enough that you are looking for human ticks, and body language that is missing and therefore appears odd. Also until 3D rendering could do subsurface lighting, light passing through your skin, and reflecting the blood and layers underneath, the blush response, etc. You get Zombies like Tom Hanks in Polar Express.

    8. Re:How true was this? by Thelasko · · Score: 3, Funny

      Of course, Boy George also gives me the creeps.

      Note: I didn't post a link to Wikipedia out of fear of a picture. [shudder]

      --
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    9. Re:How true was this? by just_another_sean · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Many of the examples you've given don't cross over into "uncanny valley" territory - nobody would get stuffed animals confused with real animals...

      I thought this too at first but after reading further I realized (at least I think I did) that the PP is talking about real animals that are stuffed after death. So not your cute, cuddly stuffed toy you give to your kid - no one is generally going to be fooled by that.

      A dead but stuffed and preserved animal can be difficult to tell apart from its live counterpart, at least until you look long enough and realize it isn't moving.

      And contrary to the PP, I do find these disturbing. Just a personal feeling and I do agree that the whole "uncanny valley" thing is a bit exaggerated. But I don't think you can say for sure one way or the other because I believe it's very subjective and there probably isn't a 'one opinion for everyone' take on it.

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    10. Re:How true was this? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Then there's the opposite. I've looked at a beautiful simple lawn sculpture of a rabbit, thinking I've never seen one that detailed before in my life... then it twitched. And then it was so perfectly still again I thought I might have imagined the twitch. It would let you get within 5 feet before it decided you were too close. It wouldn't even turn its head to keep you in sight.

      Oh, and then there's those certain portraits that have depressions on the eyes so that seem to follow you everywhere. Like they're painted on the inside of spoons.

      --
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    11. Re:How true was this? by grumbel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If the uncanny valley really exist, then please explain realistic paintings that have been around for ages

      I think what people mostly call the "uncanny valley" is not the result of a work produced by an artists, but the result up motion captured data applied to a computer model (often generated by 3D scanning). The miss-detection in the data and the incorrect mapping from the animation data to the model result in uncanny results and most often you don't have an artist there to clean things up. When you on the other side have an artists to clean things up, the results most often look quite a fine.

      I consider the uncanny valley not something that you drop into the closer you get to realism, but something that you drop into when you screw up the balance between different aspects of a work. A perfectly realistic 3D human will look really uncanny if you just stitch it onto a not so realistic animation, since a lot of vital pieces in facial animation and such would simply be missing. On the other side if you take that same animation and stick it to a simpler human model things look quite fine. Its simply a matter to not move the motion and the graphics so far apart that they won't fit together any more. If you have a super realistic face with every wrinkle modeled perfectly, you better have some animation data to make those wrinkle behave realistically in motion, if you don't you better scale back your detail level, since what looks uncanny is that that is there and looks wrong, not those pieces that are simply missing.

      Over the course of the last 20 or so years I have seen a ton of stuff that I would consider uncanny and a ton of stuff that I consider to look quite fine, none of the uncanniness however had much to do with the realism, since even a cartoon creature can look quite uncanny when things are out of balance.

    12. Re:How true was this? by dirkbaztard · · Score: 2, Informative

      Watch those cartoon commercials where they've basically cartooned over real people talking and moving: THAT'S how much people move around.

      That process is called rotoscoping. It's been around for almost 100 years, although more recently the technique has been performed using computers.

    13. Re:How true was this? by DrOct · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I would point out that I in fact know a lot of people who find Madamn Thussads to be quite creepy. I don't personally but often see the same problem as I do with things in the "uncanny valley" it's not so much about them being creepy as that they just look... off. The reason that stuffed animals (and by this I assume you mean taxidermy, not things like teddy bears) don't fall into the uncanny valley is that they're so close to the real thing that they're on the other side of the valley. They also aren't humans, which people generally find more creepy than other things. That's why it's called a valley, things on one side, are stylized and/or cartoonish, things inside the valley are pretty realistic, but not quite right, so they look wrong to most people, and things on the other side of the valley are realistic enough to not bother people. As I said most of the time it's humans that just aren't quite right that bother people, so... things like cars in games, don't generally bother people as much.

    14. Re:How true was this? by DavidTC · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Corpses don't have anything to do with the uncanny valley, and neither do mounted animals.

      Those actually are the things they look like, they're just unmoving versions of them. It's not CGI fur or a computer generated face.

      Any revulsion anyone feels is due to their deadness, not the fact they look like what they actually are. (In fact, it is often remarked that dead people just look like they're sleeping.)

      Same thing with pictures. A picture of a real thing looks like...a picture of a real thing. We do not have uncanny valley issues with pictures.

      Arguable, we do have such a valley when we are born, but we lose that about 2 or 3, when we realize that pictures are not the actual thing and people do not live in the TV.

      --
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  14. Uncanny valley... by martyb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Uncanny valley in a nutshell: Is it a "Good Robot" or a "Bad Human"?

    But, there is an assumption about what is acceptable... what is the norm? At the moment, we're in a rapid transition phase. There are relatively few human-enough-like examples within our day-to-day existence. I would suggest that as these emulants (to coin a term) become more prevalent and pervasive, their familiarity will reduce the perception of their being bad.

    We've come a long ways in the 35+ years since I used an ASR-33 Teletype over a 110-baud modem to a time-shared 8KB minicomputer. That sounds like a long time, and in some respects, it is. Today's generation has seen rapid advancements in game consoles, and even now, the best still appear really good, but still unreal. My guess is that in 5-10-20 years, when the visuals become even better, AND THERE HAS BEEN AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF FAMILIARITY, there will be less of a gap to leap. Not just because the visuals got better, but because we have become more familiar with them.

    An aside: Look into the eyes of a young baby. Watch how they make eye contact, and don't let go. Watch how intently they examine you. That's setting up neurons and patterns of what is safe, good, bad, and everything else.

    P.S. I wonder if the transition from the old black and white TVs to today's HDTV sets has run through a similar perception challenge?

  15. http://www.image-metrics.com/ has another demo by ChienAndalu · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They have another demo on their Front Page
    And while it's extremely impressive, sadly it's definitely in the valley for me.

    1. Re:http://www.image-metrics.com/ has another demo by eagee · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yipe, that girl looks like she's about to dine on human flesh.

  16. The demo is a streaming video ?!? by DrYak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yay ! Wonderful low-bandwidth youtube streaming video in all its glorious crap-quality !
    The best way to show technical demos about photo-realism !

    I can't wait to see the thumbnail sized 60%-quality jpeg screen caps, too !

    I feel as much informed about the quality as when watching all those wonderful ads about hiddef screens on the TV.

    ---

    Common, Image Metrics, can't you just post a descent hi-quality video file, so we can actually see what your technology looks like ?

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  17. Hasn't jumped the valley. by MMC+Monster · · Score: 5, Funny

    Heck, she doesn't even look as real as Celine Dion, let alone a real person.

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  18. Looks uncanny to ME by dpbsmith · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wish I'd somehow had a chance to view this before knowing that it was a computer animation... say, a side-by-side comparison of a real and an animated person and a challenge to guess which was animated.

    To me, "Emily" did not look real and did look uncanny. Actually, it reminded me of nothing so much as one of those videos where they replace a baby's mouth with animation so that it appears to be talking like an adult. It seemed to me that the animation's "mouth" was not stably positioned on its "face;" when the head turned, I perceived a change in the position of the mouth relative to the face. Something about the skin didn't look right, either.

    Would I have accepted it as real if I were expecting "real?" Yes. But that's not the same thing.

    Some years back I took part in an experiment to gauge something about necessary bit rates and algorithms to make synthesized speech sound real. What struck me forcibly was that, in this experiment, when you were listening to the best synthesized speech, if I'd had no standard of comparison I'd have said it was real. But when they switched to a real voice saying the same thing, there was the most amazing sensation, almost a tactile sensation of sound shaped by warmth and moisture. Only after you heard the real thing did the synthesized speech seem cold and mechanical.

  19. Uncanny in the other direction by FooAtWFU · · Score: 3, Interesting

    For a look at the "uncanny valley" in the other direction, I recall someone posted this link to something about http://inventorspot.com/articles/girls_get_anime_look_with_extrawide_contact_lenses_16872">"anime eyes" contact-lenses in a story a couple of days ago and it certainly freaked a number of people out.

    --
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    1. Re:Uncanny in the other direction by Chyeld · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There actually have been theory's put forward that there will be a second 'uncanny valley' when it comes to transhumanism.

      In other words, as 'normals' begin modifying their appearance outside of what is considered normal, they will start to slide down that valley and become socially unacceptable till they get to the point where they are back on the other side of the valley and just accepted as 'freaks'.

    2. Re:Uncanny in the other direction by riceboy50 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think you can already see this effect with heavy body modification that goes on today.

      --
      ~ I am logged on, therefore I am.
  20. Yes, but does it even exist? by Moraelin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Well, a better question is if the uncanny valley really exists. Or rather, if it's really as simple as that valley, or we're actually looking at a more complex and multi-dimensional phenomenon.

    And I'll attempt to build a framework to falsify it. It's a bit roundabout and I'll start by explaining the what and why of that framework, before all else. Bear with me, please.

    First of all, before someone jumps in with the ever popular, "OMG, you're not worthy to question the high priests!" (err... "scientists"), the uncanny valley is just a hypothesis. A very compelling and well argued one, no doubt, but hardly a proven fact.

    Second, before I get into the meat of the argument, the points chosen to represent it are highly debatable. E.g., is a zombie scary because of being close enough to the real thing to fall in the "uncanny valley", or because of the whole cultural meaning of death, undeath, corpses, etc?

    When you look at each point individually, you can handwave and argue it to be wherever you want it, to support your hypothesis. It's called the Texas sharpshooter fallacy, after the fable of the sharpshooter who shot first and then painted a bullseye around the hole. You can "prove" anything in (pseudo-)science if you can do just that to the data: take a fuzzy and ill defined points and argue where they belong on your curve.

    The "uncanny valley" paper does just that. We don't know the exact X coordinate on that graph for a zombie or a robot. It could be way right or way left, or whatever. So what really follows is that Mori decided a priori where they belong on that curve, and then places them at a point based on that. It's a textbook application of the Texas sharpshooter fallacy.

    So what I'm going to do is an ad absurdum reduction of his curve.

    I don't know the exact coordinates of any of my examples either, but, here's the important part: I don't need to pretend to. I'll just peg them between two other values, which, assuming the curve is correct, both fall in the valley or outside it, or some other position. Based on the reaction they caused, and, again, assuming that the curve were correct.

    And due to the shape of the curve, if two points are in the valley, then everything between them is in the valley too. If two points are, say, both to the left of the valley, then a point between them should be on the left of the valley too. That is the important part.

    So, let's build a counter-example: the FF movie was called a clear example of the Uncanny Valley. It's in the valley. Sony's Everquest 2 (particularly with the unnatural ambient bloom enabled) caused a similar reaction, and many euphemisms were used to describe just that: that that world looked disturbingly unnatural, especially if you pushed the graphics settings high enough. Classic example of entering the uncanny valley from the left, eh? So it's point 2 in that valley.

    A point between them should, obviously, also be in the valley. That curve only has one dip, right?

    Well, point #3 could be Oblivion. The graphics are better and more detailed than Sony's graphics in EQ, but don't even come close to the insane polygon counts and animations of the FF movies. It's between the two points. It should also be in the valley. It isn't. Nobody was repulsed by Oblivion's graphics. Or pick Crysis, or whatever newer high-end game, and you get the same curious behaviour. It ought to be in the valley, but it isn't.

    Let's build another counter-example: so we're told that zombies are only repulsive because they're so close to humans as to fall in the uncanny valley. So logically, if you start with a zombie and move farther and farther away from human-like with it, eventually it exits the valley. Right? In fact, past a point it becomes outright _cute_ and appealing. Or ought to. I mean, that's the shape of that curve.

    You probably realize already how absurd that statement is, but let's actually imagine it. Let's say we start with that corpse an

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  21. Photo of the real Emily by 2phar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is this her?

    If so, good but a little way to go yet :)

  22. Nothing really new by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

    The only thing new here is that the equipment required to do the motion capture has been reduced to a single video camera. The facial movements are not being generated by a computer, merely copied from an actor so it's still nowhere near a believable simulation of a human face.

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  23. It's "performance transfer technology" by Animats · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Image Metrics calls this "performance transfer technology". It's not really animation; it's more of a scheme for pasting face A onto actor B. Quite a bit of this already goes on; often, when you see a stunt performer's face on screen, the face of the principal has been transferred to the image of the stunt performer. With this new technology, that can be done without matching camera angles or going through the whole "dots on the face" makeup ordeal.

  24. Introducing Emily O'Brien the real actress by erbmjw · · Score: 3, Informative

    The person in the video is Emily O'Brien a professional actress. You can find a much better video of Image Metric's work on this page of her website

  25. Am I missing something? by Rui+del-Negro · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So they make a 3D model of Emily's face (using a 3D scanner, presumably), then they film Emily moving her face, then they deform the model to match Emily's facial expressions, then they superimpose the model on Emily's head.

    Er... what for?

    At best they'll end up with something identical to the original (but they don't - the model doesn't wrinkle properly and sometimes the tracking is slightly off - you can see her face "float" relative to the hairline and ears).

    I could understand the point if they could take expressions from one person's face and replicate them on another person's face (which is something you can do with motion capture - and some clean-up work). But obviously they can't do that automatically, or they would have done it for the demo.

    I can see this kind of technology being useful to disguise the transition between an actor's real face and a 3D face (which will later be deformed by hand, or morphed into some creature, etc.), but the demo is so limited (camera doesn't move, the 3D face is almost identical to the real face, etc.) that it seems a long way off from being an alternative to motion capture and manual tweaking. This is like showing some (supposedly) revolutionary new GPU by making it print "Hello World" on the screen. If the technology is so great, why such a limited demo?

  26. Re:Her motion is too smooth by MozeeToby · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I would be shocked if "within a generation" you couldn't do video games that are animated in real time to the live action level. You're forgetting that one generation ago (~1990), it was impossible to do even cartoon level animation (the first full length CG picture was Toy Story in 1996). Today, a dozen ametuers using free software can produce a short film with equal or better effects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephants_Dream/).

  27. Umm... by MsGeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What about that funky Replicant teddy bear from Blade Runner? That was all the way IN the Uncanny Valley.

    BTW the girl on the video in the article...FAIL. Very, very, VERY creepy.

    --
    Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
    1. Re:Umm... by tzhuge · · Score: 2, Funny

      Are you sure it's the Uncanny Valley affecting your reaction the girl in the video and not the /. effect?

      The /. effect is what I call the nature fear and discomfort all /. readers feel towards the finer sex. I'm pretty sure they have cooties.

    2. Re:Umm... by HappyEngineer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Really? I doubt I would have known she wasn't real if I hadn't know about it ahead of time. Either you have a heightened sense of revulsion for the almost human or I am totally insensitive to what humans look like.

    3. Re:Umm... by Rogerborg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      She looks like she's been filmed with one of those magic wrinkle-smoothing cameras so beloved of chat show hosts (and Cybill Shepherd). Letterman has effectively been a CGI creation for the past decade. All that's different about this is that it's pasting specific new features over the old ones, rather than just blurring them.

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  28. The problem with CGI so far... by voss · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is they are trying to make a perfect looking human...humans are defined by their imperfections. When they airbrush real humans too much it winds up looking fake.

    They need to add human imperfections to the CGI models to pass the uncanny valley test.

    1. Re:The problem with CGI so far... by The-Bus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And not just in their physical makeup, but their movements too.

      The movements of Wall-E are, to Pixar's credit, more realistically "human" than almost every video game animation I've seen.

      --

      Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.

  29. Re:Uncanny in the other direction (proper link) by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Broken link in parent, try this

    "Since no amount of cosmetic surgery will make actual human eyes larger, some girls are trying another way to up their cute quotient: extra-wide contact lenses!"

    Well, there is the crazy shit known as "eye tattooing". It's still a young procedure and I don't know if they can blend a tattoo that close to the iris.

    --
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  30. Re:It's the real deal by grumbel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No, the whole problem with motion capture is that its *not* exact. The results can be pretty faulty, especially when it comes to facial animation and when you then apply those faulty animation data to an equally imperfect mesh you lend right deep down in the uncanny area, exactly *because* its motion capture. With hand animation on the other side an artists can fine tune the results till they look perfect, which however never really happens for realistic facial animation since it would just be way to much work.

  31. Wait until eye contact w/robots becomes reality by Miamicanes · · Score: 4, Interesting

    An even bigger problem will be making robots that can convincingly pass for human while physically in their presence and trying to feign one-on-one communication. Have you ever noticed that somehow, something just kind of clicks, and you *know* you've made eye contact with someone... and you know that THEY know, too? They might be far away, in a moving vehicle, looking at something else (or just generally looking around), but every now and then "it" happens... you make random, fleeting eye contact with a stranger.

    My theory is that it's due to the fact that your eyes are always moving (if your eye were perfectly still, you wouldn't be able to see, because rods and cones derive most of their information from CHANGES rather than instantaneous sampled state). I'm guessing that the pattern of movement appears random, but somehow the part of your brain responsible for background signal processing is able to recognize that movement pattern in the eyes others, and tries to synchronize itself to it. Neither person is intentionally trying to do it, or is even aware of it, but their brains -- through visible eye movement -- are actively negotiating the equivalent of a handshake... and when it happens, a metaphorical "datagram" gets sent to your conscious brain letting you know that you've "locked on" to another person. When you're intentionally talking to someone, it lets you know that you have their attention. When it unexpectedly happens at some random moment when you're just gazing out at the horizon, it can be awkward and uncomfortable.

    It's why if you're trying to hide, the worst thing you can possibly do is try to watch what's going on nearby. You might be in the dark shadows, or behind a large object with little more than a hole big enough to see through... but somehow, if someone happens to gaze in the right direction, and their eye detects the movement pattern of an eye somewhere nearby, they're going to immediately feel like something is amiss, even if they don't immediately realize what just happened. If their gaze crosses the gaze of another person who's looking at something entirely different, it might just be a feeling of unease. It's why looking for a lost person or animal is easier than looking for a lost object, at least if you're close enough to potentially make eye contact, Looking for a misplaced object, your brain has to process everything it sees, and constantly do pattern-matching. With people and animals, it's kind of like they're emitting a short-range beacon that allows you to randomly gaze around, but get "that feeling" whenever eye contact occurs, signaling that some area merits further visual inspection.

    Anyway, getting back to the Uncanny Valley, it'll be interesting to see what impact the ability to feign eye contact by robots will have. A robot with no eye contact seems creepy in a "dead" kind of way. Would a robot that "almost" managed to maintain eye contact be MORE comforting, or creepier still? Would the "comfort" factor depend upon whether the person interacting with the robot KNEW they were interacting with a robot? Or would making "almost correct" subconscious eye contact with a robot send chills down the person's spine, setting off subconscious alarms to let them know, "DANGER! Something here isn't quite right!", regardless of whether the person KNEW it was a robot?

  32. Anecdotal support here ... by beer_maker · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I was thinking this explanation sounded a bit mystical & spooky, till I realized it actually explains something I had experienced a while ago when I lived in Hawaii. I did a lot of snorkeling, often to the same beach area, and many times (dozens) while diving at that site I would be meandering along and suddenly stop to look around. If I did so I would invariably find a ~football-sized hawaiian pufferfish tucked down into the coral, not swimming but giving me the eye. Once they were spotted, they would pop out and swim away. They were big enough that if they had been swimming I would have seen them, so it seems the eye-contact WAS the alerting factor.

    It wasn't the same fish each time, it wasn't the same place each time, it wasn't even the same time(of day) each time - I would be swimming & sightseeing, stop for no apparent reason, start observing closely, and there would be a large-eyed fish watching me.

    Thanks for making me reconsider my initial position - what's that old expression? It's not the things we don't know that get us in trouble, it's the things we know that aren't so.

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