Slashdot Mirror
BBC Profiles Extradited Cracker Gary McKinnon
An anonymous reader writes "The BBC has published a very good profile of Gary McKinnon. It discusses his motives and methods as well as raising the question as to whether he is a malicious 'hacker' or whether he was simply obsessed with finding info about UFOs and should be praised for finding security faults in what should be extremely secure systems. This should provided stimulus for some interesting discussion on Slashdot especially between us Brits and our American friends following the confirmation of his extradition to the USA."
There is a very big difference between finding security faults, and exploiting them!
He stole brains of the military, FBI staff and even of the President of the US? Over the interweb? By deleting files?
Prosecutors say he altered and deleted files at a naval air station not long after the 11 September attacks in 2001, rendering critical systems inoperable.
My,my. Isn't that something?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
His extradition is typical of people trying to dispose of what they do not understand or feel threatened by similar to the witch burning of ages ago. I wouldn't call him out as having been "sloppy leaving clues" as this is typically what happens when you feel like you are justified in what you are doing. It's sad you should get guilted by friends to stop something you clearly enjoy and are good at because of silly society rules :/
Anybody else ever wonder if this is the same guy repeating this over and over again, or if there are really that many assholes that read /. ?
Nobody really gives a shit (I didn't really even read the above post), I just find it kind of curious.
Are you the same dude that posts to EVERY article, or is there a whole "underground movement"?
If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
The UK, as a seperate entity from the US, no longer exists.
If US laws can be enforced on British soil, but not vice-versa, then the UK is a defacto part of the US. But here's the clinching shit in your mouth: with no representation. What's the point of a government, if the laws they pass mean nothing?
Gary McKinnon was foolish. Yet he now faces up to 70 years in jail.
What angers me even more than the absurd penalties threatened by the US courts? The supine, wimpering acquiesence of the UK governmnt who will extradite one of its own citizens without evidence being required, yet demands no such reciprocal agreement with the US.
Mr McKinnon should burn his British passport and go away from the UK to some country which still cares for its citizens.
That the term "hacker" be henceforth replaced by the term "fucker".
Yes, it may still lead to unforeseen consequences for the fucker when laymen (and women) star using the term without proper understanding of it, but isn't that exactly what the fucker community really needs?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Nobody intimidates the US government..
Our TWO main powers are extradition, rendition and prohibition.
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
UK should rather become a state of the US and should leave the EU for good. It seems to me that the UK takes '1984' as a guidebook for their plans.
``or [...] should be praised for finding security faults in what should be extremely secure systems.''
That one is really easy. Finding said security flaws is an accomplishment, but that isn't the issue here. The issue is what you do once you find them. You get praise for actions that lead to improved security (reporting them to the vendor, fixing them, reporting them to users, etc.). You get condemnation for exploiting them for selfish goals. Same as always: do something for the common good? Praise on you. Screw someone over for your own advantage? Damnation on you.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
"It wasn't just an interest in little green men and flying saucers," said Mr McKinnon. "I believe that there are spacecraft, or there have been craft, flying around that the public doesn't know about." Mr McKinnon further explained that he believes the US military has reverse engineered an anti-gravity propulsion system from recovered alien spacecraft, and that this propulsion system is being kept a secret. In that sense, Mr McKinnon said he sees his own hacking as "humanitarian." He said he only wanted to find evidence of a UFO cover-up and expose it. He called the alleged anti-gravity propulsion system "extra-terrestrial technology we should have access to".
With that type of excuse, one could get away with almost anything short of violently assaulting people in public, don't you think?
From TFA:
As for his quest to find evidence of a UFO cover-up, Mr McKinnon has said that he found some circumstantial evidence online to back his claims, including what he said are photos with what he speculated were alien spacecraft airbrushed out of the picture. He said the photos in question were too large to download to his own computer.
So he somehow managed to SEE the photos (without any alien spacecraft on them, BTW), but wasn't able to download them? Am I the only one to whom this doesn't make sense?
...is something you don't have.
1. Saying he was "just" obsessed with finding about UFOs is a thinly veiled attempt at making an unnecessary end justify the means. If you or your buddies have found a UFO, good for you, but information does not "want" to be anthropomorphised, and you can't just raid other people's stuff to satisfy your curiosity.
2. It's unlikely anyway. I've mixed in UFO/remote viewing circles thanks to a few obsessive buddies, and while "the government's hiding something" seems to be standard rhetoric, the hobby is empty of people carefully planning cracking raids to get it. It would be counter-productive to make enemies of the people you want to be more open.
The at-all-costs nutjob does not have the clarity of thought to do what McKinnon did, though congratulations for building the foundations for a failed insanity/naivete defence. Why don't you just give him blonde pigtails and a lollypop and tell him to say "oh wittle me, no Sir I had no idea that sweetie wasn't mine".
3. It's probable that he did something that neither side want to put out in the open.
4. But there's more than enough evidence for an extradition among merely what both sides agree happened.
5. No, "hackers", finding breakable security and breaking it is not a pastime that justifies itself. When you're happy not reacting to my regularly cutting the windows and defeating the locks of you and your most vulnerable family member so I can leaving a note saying "I just wanted to see what you look like - and show you how easy it is so you can stop me from doing it again" then at least you'll be consistent.
Everyone's personal security and privacy can be defeated eventually, including yours, and there's always someone smarter than you who can defeat it. If it hasn't happened to you already, it's not because you're an impenetrable leet haxor, it's because you're inconsequential. And if you ever become otherwise, good luck on that "Thanks for the help and implicit security advice! Look forward to more of your work" note you'll have to write to your intruder.
How about we give it up already and just forego the use of the term hacker meaning good computer nerd?
I've been arguing that for years, especially as in my experience in the UK, a hack most certainly is not a clever piece of code; the image presented is of someone making a mess of it, much like hacking through the undergrowth with a machete.
Besides which, you should attempt to target your language at the intended audience, and on a site like BBC News that most certainly is not the 5% of the population who know about the other use of the word.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
What's wrong with calling him a cracker? He's white.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Unfortunately, our former PM, the worlds worst negotiator, Tony Blair went and signed a bilateral extradition treaty with the US (the one which removes the burden of providing any evidence before extraditing) When the US refused to sign their copy of the treaty he just let it ride.
Thanks Tony, bang up job.
Nobody intimidates the US government.
Our main power is extradition. Extradition and rendition..
Our two main powers are extradition, rendition and prohibition..
Our three main powers are extradition, rendition and prohibition.. and an almost fanatical loyalty to 'the flag'..
Among our many powers are such diverse elements as extradition, rendition, prohibition and an almost fanatical loyalty to 'the flag' and bombing people who try to stop us... ...I'll come in again
I think his best chance of defense rests on whether or not this claim is true...
Only he knows if this is fact or fiction. If true (and they can prove it) then he's sunk and deserves everything he gets. But if it's not true then the chances are the US Govt are trying to blame him for the (supposed) $700,000 cost of securing systems that should have been tighter than a duck's back-side in the first place.
How much of this is truth, and how much is it a "cover your ass" exercise by the US Military to distract from their own incompetance?
I propose either the deletion of /., or the replacement of us all with bots endlessly spouting memes.
I'm a meme spouting bot, you insensitive clod!
Probably some kid that tries to get some attention, and thinks that he will get it, but by posting as an AC he won't ever get the infamous OMG Ponies styling of /. which I think is rather cute!
Just ignore him - he'll get tired of it or end up as cannon fodder somewhere.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
.... the 800-pound gorilla in the room. i.e.: the types of intrusions and attacks that seem to be committed on a daily basis by what appears to be government-sanctioned Chinese hacker groups.
But in truth, I find it remarkable that the US government is not owning up to the fact that it also seems to be running what amounts to basically insecure systems on much of its IT infrastructure.
This dude may have been a crackpot, but somehow these antics are only performed for the sake of overreaction, when the blame should also be squarely shared by those who administer these networks.
As a US taxpayer, I find this last part infinitely scarier... especially because all of this saber-rattling is not likely to remedy the conditions that made it possible to do this in the first place. A recent security audit of US Gov networks gave them an 'F' if I remember (could be wrong)
Z.
England? That's from where Mr McKinnon is about to be deported. Great choice.
Whatever else he did, he knowingly accessed restricted computers whilst America was in a state of war.
Against who, again?
Oh yeah, yeah... war against a concept. Forgot. Tell me when you "win".
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
In a post criticizing language use, you should really forgo using the word "forego". It means "precede".
Actually 'forego' is an acceptable alternate spelling of 'forgo' (though you're right that forego also can be used to mean 'precede').
I guess, that what we can learn from this is that if you are going to write a post criticising a post criticising language you should check a dictionary first.
Should he have been prosecuted? Yes.
Should he have been extradited? No.
He should have been prosecuted in Britain. It's not like what he did *isn't* illegal there.
If you had super powers, would you use them for good, or for awesome?
Well, that site appears to be owned by michaelmiller@gmail.com . Wonder if that's his real name, and if he ever gets unwelcome visitors round at his place.. I hope so!
I read it, and I have to admit that I don't see anything particularly funny about the incessant racist, antisemitic and homophobic jokes! In certain sarcastic contexts that can be funny, but when people mean it, it's just sad.
which is totally what she said
Whatever else he did, he knowingly accessed restricted computers whilst America was in a state of war.
isn't america always in a state of war?
Instances of Use of United States Armed Forces Abroad, 1798 - 2007, Congressional Research Service. (google html cache of a pdf)
And one thing that never gets discussed is what he claims he found. Which is modest enough (despite all the hours he put into the search) to sound almost plausible, and weird enough to be interesting: two folders of identically titled satellite photos, one folder of which was titled "unretouched". And a spreadsheet of names and ranks titled "non-terrestrial officers."
interview is long and the interviewer is an annoying UFO over-enthusiast, but Gary is actually pretty articulate and compelling. It's
here if you're interested.
"an excuse for doing something"
Not so much an excuse, its more like the way people in power need to think to maintain power. Unfortunately people who seek power over others, don't want people to stand against their point of view. Almost by definition, the ones in power (in every country) seek to have the power to dictate terms and control everyone they rule over. So any attempt to oppose their point of view, can be interpreted as wrong by them, but now they have this fear filled terror label under which they can label anything which could oppose their point of view and so can (and do) use it to stop any attempt to oppose their point of view.
What I also find very disturbing about this case is how they are trying to use Aspergers as some kind of defense. I find it extremely insulting to Aspergers to be treated somehow inferior. Most Aspergers would leave most of the sheep like people in this world standing for their intelligence But the capacity to learn isn't the same as having learned something already. Also just because someone has the capacity to learn, doesn't mean they have used their ability to learn to the full. This hacker has shown he has not thought through the full implications of what he was said to be doing. He is very misguided to think he can just look around military computers to find UFO evidence or any evidence. However being an Asperger is not a defense. If anything it should undermine his defense. So his defense team are "clutching at straws" so to speak, to hope Aspergers can become a defense for failing to think something through.
His defence team would do better to point out how this case is already decided in the press. The press seem to be helping to condemn him before he goes to trial, by constantly highlighting the apparent scale of what he is said to have done.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.
My understanding is that it needs to be signed by your Prez first and he won't.
Treaties that are not signed by the President can't be ratified by the Senate. In the U.S., the President has the authority to enter into treaties "with the advice and consent of the Senate". In practice this means that the President signs a treaty and then the Senate ratifies it.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
How is walking into your home and making myself comfortable without your permission "breaking and entering"?
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
The worst thing Gary McKinnon has going for him is that photo that's shown alongside every article that mentions him. I couldn't imagine a better caricature of a 'malevolent hacker' if I tried.
Picking a photo image of someone that leads people to judge him. - That's journalism
If this were really happening, what would you think?
If my door is open, it isn't...
My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
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I'm American, and I disagree with him being extradited. I think he should have stayed in England where he would have gotten a fair trial.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!