McCain Picks Gov. Palin As Running Mate

Many readers have written to tell us about McCain's choice of Alaskan Governor Sarah Palin as his VP choice. "Palin, 44, a self-described 'hockey mom,' is a conservative first-term governor of Alaska with strong anti-abortion views, a record of reform and fiscal conservatism and an outsider's perspective on Washington. [...] If elected, Palin would be the first woman US vice president, adding another historic element to a presidential race that has been filled with firsts. Obama, 47, is the first black nominee of a major US political party. The choice of a vice president rarely has a major impact on the presidential race. Palin will meet Biden, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, in a debate in October."

Comments

nice pick

[larry bagina]

I worked with her last year, doing some linux consulting work for the State of Alaska. I'd definitely tap her :)

Hahahah

[Captain Splendid]

Great choice. Already getting the "maverick" tag as well. Obama's fate is sealed.

For a guy who was only doing better than Paul at the beginning of the primaries, McCain's doing well these days. 4 more years!

Re:Hahahah

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, given the title, I am tempted to assume you're joking. But the capacity of Republicans and their supporters for self parody can't be down played. Perhaps you're actually serious. Next you're going to be going on about Palin's experience and readiness to be president in a job that is, as they say, a heart beat away.

I think that the opposite of your claim is true: McCain is doomed. He just destroyed the "Obama doesn't have the experience to lead" meme. Sure Palin is a hard right social conservative. But she also happens to be an ex-beauty queen with an ethical scandal in Alaska. The social conservatives claim that women should be at home, not running for the Vice Presidency. Of course they're a bit inconsistent on this. I think that you'll find that Palin and her big breasts are a huge liability for McCain. If nothing else, she'll emphasize that he's very old.

Re:Hahahah

[BobMcD]

Because they've outgrown misogyny but not racism?

In a word, yes.

Blame the two-job economy if you'd like, but there are far greater forces working in favor of eliminating sexism than racism.

Re:Hahahah

[lymond01]

I was thinking the opposite. Conservatives being conservative, and being McCain's voting majority, would likely have preferred a white male running mate. I suspect he'll lose more votes from his base than he'll gain from uncertains or democrats. Regardless, it's a bold move in many ways, but I don't think it was politically smart (if I may insert an oxymoron).

Re:Hahahah

[Bearpaw]

In short, my grandmother who has voted Democrat for the last 50 or 60 years will now almost certainly vote Republican.

Really? My grandmother -- gods rest her soul -- and most of the grandmothers I've ever met hated being condescended to, and are probably snorting at this transparent ploy in derision.

The Republican leadership would essentially treat Vice President Palin as a second First Lady, and I'm sure they've made it clear to her that she'll need to resign if there's ever any risk of President McCain needing to be replaced.

Re:Hahahah

[2short]

I've no idea if the cop deserved to be fired; let's assume he did. That's not the controversy.

    The controversy is that she claimed she never pressured the commissioner to fire him. Then when tapes come out of one of her aides doing exactly that, she claims she didn't know about it, that one of her aides tried to get her ex-brother-in-law fired entirely without her knowledge, right before she fired the commissioner for entirely unrelated reasons.

It's like "US Attorney Scandal: Hillbilly Edition".

Re:Hahahah

[lymond01]

But don't listen to me. I'm just an evil conservative.

I think you're confusing Conservative and Liberal with being conservative or being liberal. Conservative (little c) generally means you want less drastic change -- you're content with the status quo (in my original post, this was a two century run of white male vice presidents - which as it happens has more to do with culture than with race, I'd suspect). I'm conservative about some things and liberal with others.

Conservative, these days, often gets mixed up with war-loving Neo-cons, while Liberal is a peace-loving, communistic hippy. It hurts to see descriptions of thinking become insults, and then have that be the understood definition.

There's good and bad to both sides: conservatives generally want you to do it yourself without the government's help (and everyone's taxes) -- America offers you the opportunity, it's up to you to grasp it. Liberal thinking is that not everyone really gets that opportunity without some effort on other people's part. Both sides have merit...we can neither be too hard nor too soft.

Re:Hahahah

[jmorris42]

> I think that the opposite of your claim is true: McCain is doomed. He just destroyed the "Obama
> doesn't have the experience to lead" meme.

Not really. Obama is putting that sort of crap out today and you are faithfully echoing it. I expect it to abruptly stop as soon as somebody with a clue in camp Obama manages to get a handle on this unexpected event. Both Palin and Obama have about the same experience in high office, Obama entered the Senate in '05 and effectively left to campaign for POTUS in early '07. Palin was elected Governor of AK in early 07 and was doing that 100% until today. Palin can claim a few years experience on various statewide offices, Obama can claim a few years in the IL legislature. And Obama is at the top of his ticket, not the sidekick. So if Obama keeps talking about lack of experience he invites media outlets to do stories comparing the candidates and he loses that argument.

> But she also happens to be an ex-beauty queen with an ethical scandal in Alaska.

Only in the minds of Dems. The Dems in the legislature manufactured a 'scandal' because the anti corruption efforts were starting to interfere with their (not that she wasn't also at war with the totally corrupt Repubs like Stevens, etc.) feeding at the public trough. And even then the worst case in this supposed 'scandal' is that the story is true. She got a brother in law who was beating her sister fired from his State Trooper position. I wanna see the NOW gang taking a position on that one. Should be fun.

Because of course they WILL oppose Palin, we all understand 'diversity' is celebrated in everything except thought. NOW, the race hustlers, they all say one thing but what they really mean is "we support SOCIALISTS of every race, religion and sexual orientation."

Would I want Palin as POTUS now? No, she is a little green. But assuming the Presidency is different. If the unthinkable happened McCain would already have a functioning administration, all the Cabinet positions would be staffed with (hopefully) competent folk, etc. And assuming she in the loop she would be getting a crash course in the things she needs to know to assume the office. And give her a couple of years in office and, yea she will be ready to be President in her own right. She already seems to know the things that can't be taught easilly and appears to be a fast study by observing her fast rise through the ranks.

On the other hand Obama is just as green and has zero accomplishments to his name other than getting elected to the US Senate.... by defeating Alan Keyes. Wow. Just Wow. Got handed editor of the Harvard Law Review as a Equal Opportunity hire and published nothing. Taught in a University and published NOTHING in a publish or perish world... and somehow didn't perish. Worked as a socialist agitator (what other name do you piy on somebody putting the teachings of Saul Alinksy into practice?) and can't point to a single action where he actually accomplished something noteworthy.

The only executive experience he could claim was on that Annenberg Challenge fiasco where his own final report says the money spent accomplished exactly zero improvement in the schools. And since the original grant proposal was written by a terrorist[1] (William Ayers) who kept the lead active role in handing out all that money to political cronies instead of helping improve education (the stated goal in the proposal) Obama really wants to make the whole experience disappear from his resume.

[1] No sane person would disagree with the statement that Ayers was a domestic terrorist. Ayers, as late as 2004 repents none of his acts, thus isn't really debatable that he should be labeled a terrorist in the present tense.

Re:Hahahah

[onefriedrice]

Your points will probably be repeated many times more, but they are easily parried. Here's how:

1. He destroyed the chance for questioning Obama's experience. Not really, since Palin probably has better experience credentials than Obama himself. She has executive experience as both a mayor and governor. On the other hand, Obama spent most of his Senate term campaigning. If anything, it gives McCain something more to add: Even his VP has more experience than the Democrat presidential nominee.

2. She has an ethical scandal in Alaska. Well, not really. There has been no evidence linking her with the firing of the state employee. No doubt Obama supporters will continue to bring this up as if it were significant, but it just isn't.

3. The social conservatives claim she should be at home. I doubt it. The truth is that the vice presidency position isn't traditionally nearly as time-consuming as president or senator. Interestingly, Joe Biden also continued as a senator rather than raising his boys when their mother was killed; it's not like social conservatives will vote Obama because they may think that Palin should stay home. For social conservatives, there is no doubt that the GOP candidates are a better choice for them.

4. Palin will emphasize McCain's age. Probably. So? Unless McCain was unable to perform all his duties as president because of his age, what does it matter? This meme will continue to be used by the Obama camp, but rational* people will see that voting based on age makes little more sense than voting based on race or gender, unless experience is accounted for in which case McCain would obviously be at an advantage.

* You could argue that most Americans are not rational, and I would probably agree, but this is looking more and more to be an election based on real issues. I think most people will give a higher priority to issues they care about rather than the superficial fluff.

Re:Hahahah

[Ucklak]

McCain destroyed the "Obama doesn't have the experience to lead" meme just as much as Obama destroyed the "McCain, more of the Same" meme with Biden's VP choice.

Biden is just as much is entrenched as part of the D.C. problem as they come and believing the "Obama = change" is much harder than believing in Santa Claus.

The thing this girl brings to the table is:
1. She is the only conservative of the 4.
2. A lively debate as part of the political process.

That being said, I believe that she would offer more change beneficial to the populace than Obama if she were to be promoted to commander in chief because of some health issue of John "I was a POW for 5.5 years" McCain.

Obama doesn't believe in the 4th ammendment.
Biden wants to police the internet.

2 reasons I wouldn't be happy if Obama gets the keys to the White House.

The Creationism vs. Evolution battle has been fought and she's not a 'Creationism only policy' freak so that talking point doesn't hold any weight with me.
While they're at it, they might as well teach the Flying Spaghetti Monster myths in school too. People will believe what they want to believe and no amount of evidence will sway that opinion.
Cases in point:
-9/11 conspiracies
-Moon Landings
-UFOs
-Bigfoot < Yes, bigfoot has been a hoax as uttered on the deathbed by the guy who took the picture.

I'm not voting for either, I just think this election cycle just got a bit more interesting.

Part of me is rooting for McCain/Palin to win just to watch Hillary shriek.
Too bad that both of them will get clobbered in the debates.

Sure shes pretty and all but....

[Gat0r30y]

The Republican ticket is now complete, with John McCain picking Sarah Palin, the Republican Governor of Alaska as his running mate. And sure, she is hot (safe for work) but it would appear she is also a proponent of teaching creationism alongside Evolution in public schools. I don't mean to start a flame war here (ok maybe just a little) but seriously, how can anyone take a candidate seriously when they shamelessly pander to the stupid lobby?

Re:Sure shes pretty and all but....

[ptbarnett]

I don't mean to start a flame war here (ok maybe just a little) but seriously, how can anyone take a candidate seriously when they shamelessly pander to the stupid lobby?

Before the flamewar starts, maybe someone should read the article that Wired links to. In response to the controversy that followed her comments, she said:

"I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."

I'm no advocate of creationism, either. But, I question people who insist that it is a subject that must not be discussed. Germany bans certain subjects (and to avoid invoking Godwin's law, I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader), but all it seems to do is suppress open debate about it.

Re:Sure shes pretty and all but....

[SengirV]

how can anyone take a candidate seriously when they shamelessly pander to the stupid lobby?

I don't know, it doesn't seem to bother the Obama supporters.

Waiting to be modded as a troll while the OP gets modded as informative or interesting. Even though both took shots at the other side.

No bias to see here.

Re:Sure shes pretty and all but....

[2nd Post!]

Except you are wrong. Evolution and Creationism doesn't intersect. Evolution talks about how life changes/adapts to change and Creationism talks about how life began.

The only conflict is that Evolution proclaims that living forms are mutable where Creationism says they are not. There is no "origin of life" aspect in Evolution just as there is no "adaptation to environment" aspect to Creationism.

Re:Sure shes pretty and all but....

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok so here is what they do to appeal to win votes for the republican party:

1) Put her in a Playboy spread.
2) Have her appear on MTV
3) Have her Army son campaign with her
4) Have her appear with Paris Hilton in Bikinis

Lets face it these are the types of things the American Consumer appeals to now days. Its not about their politics or their vision for the country its how they can prostitute themselves, and sensationalize themselves like they're a movie star, ro professional athelete.

Next thing you know McCain's Doughter will be staring in a movie to be released next month.

We're in a sad state of affairs these days...

Re:Sure shes pretty and all but....

[LWATCDR]

Hey my teacher taught use the theory of spontaneous generation and how it was proven to be not correct.
The problem is that the many creationist know just enough science that unless you know a lot of science you must take it on "faith" that they are wrong.
The majority of pro-evolution zealots on slashdot don't have enough science background to disprove a good creationist. Way to often they "believe" what they learned in school.
Since I do attend church and I am actually pretty good at science I was once invited to a creationist talk.
They had some very interesting facts but they really didn't understand them.
One of my favorite was that they found Carbon-14 in diamonds so they couldn't as old as the evolutionist said they where. They really didn't enjoy my lesson on radio active decay and quantum physics.
But I can tell you this. If you don't know a lot of science then they are totally believable.
I would bet that a lot of people on Slashdot only believe in evolution because they distrust religious people and not because they actually understand what is wrong with creationism.

Obama is not "African American"

[davidwr]

Skin color and ethnicity should matter in an election, but Obama is half-"white American" half "Black African." While that technically makes him half African-American, he does not share the full cultural heritage that is commonly understood by the term "African-American."

His dad was from Africa, not the son or grandson of a sharecropper and not the descendant of slaves from pre-Civil-War America.

I will grant you that he grew up in the '60s and '70s in a time where his skin color gave him distinct disadvantages, but that's not the same as having parents and grandparents who faced the same obstacles.

Barak Obama has far more in common with lawyers from Harvard than your average African American.

Thankfully, for today's generation and the ones to follow, the cultural differences are becoming more about economic differences rather than differences in skin tone and whether your ancestors were property.

So, what are your front page setting again?

[Chmcginn]

Because I'm seeing this story at the top of the front page.

Face it, though, neither Palin (a self-admitted creationist) nor Biden (a proponent of stronger police powers) is a 'nerd-friendly' pick.

Is this a sacrificial lamb?

[damn_registrars]

I've heard discussions that Gov. Palin has had some difficulties with mainstream conservatives. Considering that McCain has almost no chance of winning this election, could picking Palin have been more about taking her out of the picture?

After all, how many candidates from losing presidential tickets - presidential or veep - have been endorsed for office by their parties afterwards?

This could be the GOP's way of holding on for Pawlenty and Romney to run at later times when there is a chance of the republicans winning the white house.

What's so bad about teaching science history?

[tepples]

she is also a proponent of teaching creationism alongside Evolution in public schools

I don't see anything wrong with teaching the history of humanity's understanding of the planet's origins. For a long time, consensus was that the planet was 6,000 years old. Without learning about creationism, it is harder for students to grasp the extent of the impact that Darwin's On the Origin of Species had on the development of biology.

Re:What's so bad about teaching science history?

[pluther]

I think your post almost all by itself demonstrates why the attack on science is so bad. Even though you don't seem like you yourself are a proponent of Creationism, your post shows, in three sentences, three very common fallacies perpetuated by the creationists:

I don't see anything wrong with teaching the history of humanity's understanding of the planet's origins. For a long time, consensus was that the planet was 6,000 years old. Without learning about creationism, it is harder for students to grasp the extent of the impact that Darwin's On the Origin of Species had on the development of biology.

1. Evolution has nothing to say one way or another about the planet's origins. It doesn't even address the origins of life. It addresses solely how individual Species might originate.

2. At the time Darwin published his book, most people generally agreed that the earth was at least a few hundred thousand, possibly millions of years old. The concept of a 6000 year old Earth was introduced by Thomas Aquinas and largely ignored until the 19th century. And even he was simply speculating on the length of time since Adam left the Garden, based on genealogies given in the Bible, not on the age of the entire Earth, and certainly not on the relative age of the universe. Even amongst Christians, a 6000 year old universe didn't become an article of faith until the rise of radio preachers in the 1920s.

3. Evolution was widely accepted in 1859, when Darwin published his book. What was hotly debated was the mechanism by which species may evolve. The revolutionary idea Darwin put forth was that natural selection alone would be powerful enough to be that mechanism. There were many other theories being put forth at the time.

Re:A clever choice...

[letxa2000]

Who wants to bet that Palin's VP debate performance will outshine McCain's debate performance?

I suspect:

1. Palin would shine against McCain.
2. McCain will shine against Obama.
3. Palin would shine again Obama.
4. ... I don't know how Palin will do against Biden.

Personally, I wouldn't mind the ticket being reversed: Palin/McCain. But given what we've got, Palin's speech this morning was far more inspirational and motivating than Obama's. And she didn't even have a crowd of 80,000 at Invesco field to drum up the energy.

Re:Well-rounded?

[Chmcginn]

Equating the geocentrists with the biblical literalists is a classic fallacy of composition.

I'm not attempting to equate them as equal in numbers. I'm just making a case against the 'point where religion and science meet' arguement of the OP. There's virtually nothing teachable in science that doesn't intersect with some religious doctrine.

Re:Well-rounded?

[steveo777]

Where did you read that? My bill of rights reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.."

Meaning that they can't make laws against or for religion (any of them). Which is really hard to interpret... wait, no it's not. Public schools should be a place where EVERY religion (and non-religion) is accepted. I don't remember any part of the Bible saying the Earth is the center of the solar system or the universe either. I may be wrong.

At any rate I couldn't care much less whether or not ID is taught in school as long as the kids understand that evolution is the theory that makes the most sense out of our existence to the most people at this time.

Re:Monty Python?

[Grendol]

Michael Palin will make an excellent vice presidential candidate. Awesome.

Sadly no, but think of the possibilities! Debates with fish slapping! Gilliam really could run though, boy, what a ticket that could be. Python for President!

Re:Good choice

[tenchiken]

Yep. It's solid. There is a subtle shift going on here - Democrats are going to try and compare Barak's experience against Palins. That will backfire in the long run as they suddenly remember that people don't vote for down ticket candidates - only the top. And Barak has roughly the same experience as the VP.

brilliant

[Surt]

He's just handed the feminists who wanted Clinton a guarantee that they can have a female president within 4 years (with McCain's failing health, history of cancer and torture, his odds of surviving 4 years are quite small). Even if he managed to make it through 4 years of the presidency, getting rid of her in the 2nd term to prevent her becoming president would make it impossible to get reelected (and there is basically zero chance of McCain living another 8 years, even with the best medical care available).

Re:I think you are a little early on your verdict.

[LibertineR]

Piss poor? Her state seems to love her. 90% approval ratings.

AND, no one has been able to link Palin directly to the firing in question. Not through phone logs, witnesses, or anything else.

It also appears that Hillary voters are moving to Palin in a big way, according to some of their blogs.

Re:How is this news for nerds?

[jythie]

Well, for starters she is a creationist (though it sounds like she is promising to keep out of the debate, even though her personal opinion is that both should be taught), which has a definite science angle to it.
 
So far the only bits of tech policy anyone has mentioned out of her has to do with oil drilling, which she in favor of (married to an oil industry peep and lives in a state that gets stipends from anyone drilling there)

Re:Good choice

[MightyMartian]

She's running as the VP of a 72 year old candidate who has had a deadly form of cancer, and suffers from lifelong health problems related to his extensive torture. His odds of surviving the next 4 years are vanishingly small. The odds that she is both the republican VP and presidential candidate is very high.

I'm confused. Do you work for Obama's spin doctors, or are you George W. Bush spindoctor thrown into the future from that distant epoch of 1999?

Re:Good choice

[at_slashdot]

Palin is running for Vice-President that should be ready to take over in any instant in case the President dies of is incapacitated, given McCain's age and cancer history that's not a far-fetched scenario.

Just wondering...

[mikeazo]

Why do we consider Sen. Obama the first black nominee? He is half black. If he were living in Africa, he be considered white. Just something I have been wondering.

Re:The Vagina option

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize that McCain is going to be 72 and has now outlived his father and his grandfather, both of which died of sudden heart attacks.

So basically, the candidate you are voting for is his successor- which is a person who is a first term governor with a state having the population of the city of Memphis,TN. Not to mention that is an entirely republican state so she doesn't even have any cross-party experience.

Yea, this is a great move, but for the Democrats. Once people realize that you would have a token VP with absolutely no experience who is touring state funerals until our own president dies of old age, they're going to be really excited to back that party. Not to mention that many in the republican party are upset about the choice of a woman.

Quite honestly, the democrats couldn't have hoped for a better choice. An old man and a completely unknown inexperienced governor of one of the smallest populations for the VP spot. And yes, they are pandering to female voters. She is no Hillary Clinton, and women are smarter than that. They were voting for Hillary for her policies, not the fact that she was a woman. Democratic women abhor what Palin claims to stand for. Quite frankly, I'm overjoyed at this choice, they just assured the democrats a win in November.

Re:Can we put the experience factor to rest?

[jjohnson]

Between less than two years as governor of a low population state (after being mayor of a town of 8,000), and twelve years in the Illinois/U.S. Senates, I'll take the Senator for having experience that matters more in Washington. Obama knows how to actually pass legislation in Congress. Palin will find Washington a bit different than Anchorage.

Hell, you want to compare executive experience? Obama built a campaign machine from scratch that defeated the Clintons and the Democratic Party's establishment over eighteen months. That's an accomplishment in itself that qualifies him.

Re:Well-rounded?

[adisakp]

I learned about different belief systems back in public high school in my world history class.

There's a big difference between learning about various religions in a historical perspective (or even a modern cultural one) in a history or social studies class compared to having a particular religion's beliefs taught as a science class without any credible scientific basis.

I don't mind my children learning that the Aztecs used to tear out their enemies hearts in human sacrifices. Now I would have a problem with the same school teaching my children that it was a scientific fact that they absolutely had to perform human sacrifices in order to not remain in darkness forever next time there was an eclipse.

Or do you want your children to learn that it's turtles all the way down ?

Re:Quote from the Future

[Wyatt Earp]

Alot of people don't understand how the Parties work in the Upper Great Plains, Alaska, Mountain States. OK, where the media lives, you have your Red and Blue states and politicians. In less populated states the politicians are different. There are anti-abortion liberals, pro-life Conservatives, pro-abortion welfare advocate Democrats who go hunting and not for a photo-op.

She is an awesome pick for McCain, Biden was terrible, terrible, I'm a moderate and I've been on the fence, I like Obama's technology and space stances, I like McCain's foreign policy. Biden is a nail in the coffin for me and Obama, if McCain had gone with someone bad, like Jindal, I would have sucked it up and voted Obama, now, back on the fence.

Re:Quote from the Future

[Joe the Lesser]

Fighting with the Alaskan Republican party is not the same as fighting with the National Republican party.

Re:Brilliant, judo-like move

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone keeps using that "more experience" line - which is B.S. She has more "executive" experience, but that's till only a couple years in a non-diverse and sparsely populated state. If she has more experience than Obama, then she also has more experience that McCain.

Also, Bush had a lot of "executive experience" when he won. He'd run Texas, and several businesses that he was given. (into the ground I might add.) See how well the "experience" worked out for him.

Re:Quote from the Future

[prisoner-of-enigma]

Yeah, but Quayle want creationism taught in schools like Palin does [wired.com]?

Quit being disingenuous. If you want to try and pick apart someone, try using their entire comment, not just the part that serves your agenda. Palin's comments were:

"Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of education. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."

"I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesnâ(TM)t have to be part of the curriculum."

She added that, if elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum.

Members of the state school board, which sets minimum requirements, are appointed by the governor and confirmed by the Legislature.

"I won't have religion as a litmus test, or anybody's personal opinion on evolution or creationism," Palin said.

So there. She doesn't endorse creationism any more than evolutionary theory. God forbid (if you'll pardon the expression) we let open minds hear both sides of the debate and make up their own minds what they believe, right? I mean, it's so much easier if you just silence once side of the issue and put the other camp out of business. Then the kids believe just what you want them to believe without ever having had the choice. You seem to be in favor of censorship when it suits your agenda.

She's saying both sides deserve to be heard. You seem to be in favor of censoring one side because you don't agree with it. Somehow, if a creationist were advocating that evolution be banned, I have a funny feeling you'd be all lathered up about it. Yet you have no problem with the same being applied in the opposite direction. Back where I come from, that's called 'hypocrisy.'

And, for the record, I have this issue at home with my kids right now. My wife is religious, although not a zealot. She leans towards creationism. I'm not very religious and I lean towards evolution. I'm seeing to it that my daughters grow up hearing both points of view. They can then make up their own minds. As parents, we should have enough confidence in the upbringing we've given our children that they'll make the "right" choice, whatever that happens to be.

Re:Quote from the Future

[tyrione]

"Senator Obama, what do you wear: boxers or briefs?"

Neither, bikinis.

And strangely enough, Palin's record is eerily like Quayle's. Looks great on paper, but rather innocuous. Nothing jumps out. And alas, that's what's needed in a VP. She votes firmly with the party line. Nary a rebellious thought in her head. Just like Quayle.

Actually I'll say, as a compliment, Palin is rebellious. She took on a Republican governor when she ran for governor. She also took on Republican Senator Ted Stevens over the Bridge to Nowhere. However as she's anti-choice and pro drilling I couldn't support her, even if I was Republican.

Falcon

Senator Biden, Boxer's or Briefs?

Is this really fair? I mean come on! Look at me! I'm a retirement aged man who needs as much circulation as possible to keep it up. Of course I wear boxers.

Governor Palin, boxer....

It depends on my mood. I'll leave it at that.

Booyah! The entire male and some of the female audience becomes distracted thinking on this one. How come? She's actually attractive and the "nasty" thoughts are no longer filled with wrinkled skin.

Re:More Quotes from the Future

[Wonko the Sane]

to impose your religious beliefs on me or any unborn child that I might have.

I don't have any religious beliefs, but I have no problem with the state using force to prevent you (or anyone else) from murdering other human beings.

Suggesting that an unborn child has no human rights until the instant of birth is absurd.

Suggesting that an egg gains full legal rights at the instant of conception is equally absurd.

This isn't an either-or situation. The answer isn't "pro-choice" or "pro-life".

I think that most all of us can agree that a clump of cells too small to be seen with the naked eye doesn't deserve any particular legal recogintion.

On the other hand, a unborn child that has developed enough that it could expect to survive outside the womb probably should have the same rights inside the womb as it would have outside.

In between these two points we can have reasonable laws the balance the interests of the mother with the interests of the unborn child.

If we'd quit listening to the people who say there is no middle ground then we could actually solve this argument and move on with life.

Re:Quote from the Future

[Anachragnome]

As a former 10 year resident of Fairbanks, Alaska, I can say, without exception, that I do not trust a SINGLE Alaskan politician.

Even the ones I DID trust, to some extent, have either been charged with some form of corruption or have been found guilty of it.

Most of the people that I know that still live up there pretty much feel the same way. Nepotism, corruption, and insider-backroom deals seem to be the norm up there.

Granted, I do not know much about this Palin person(aside from the fact that I loved the opening scene......"It's!"), but I am very leery when someone mentions Alaska and politician in the same sentence.

Anti-abortion??????

[Anonymous Coward]

i'm a frequent conservative lurker of slashdot, and i'm ticked at the terminology in this artical... "anti-abortion" is not what they call themselves, it's "pro-life"... we don't call "pro-choice" the "pro-abortion" or "pro-death" view... :-/ am I the only conservative on slashdot?

Re:Quote from the Future

[huckamania]

There is a trend in science to try to close the debate, which is very unscientific. Global warming, er, climate change is the best example of this.

I believe evolution to be true, and I don't mind that others don't. In my HS AP biology class, the teacher separated all of the students into two groups: those that believed evolution and those that didn't. It ended with me and a Chinese student (one of a very few in my HS) on one side of the room and all of the rest on the other side. I passionately defended evolution and can remember one very cute little girl asking me, almost sadly, if I really believed we descended from apes. That same girl was our valedictorian.

I remember one theory about the life of Leonardo DaVinci, that he was attempting to validate all of the accumulated knowledge of his day. I don't know if that is true or not, but I know that the world would be a vastly different and worse place if he hadn't had the balls to question the scientific facts that were in place during his time.

Re:The "experience" meme

[Orne]

That's funny, they did just that about 5 hours before you made your post.

Obama campaign highlights Palin's 'zero' experience. Yeah, except that she has been in political positions 5 years longer (1992) than Obama has (1997), and has gone further up the executive branch. This is not the battle they want to fight.

news for nerds

[Dr. Cody]

Now see here...

Re:Quote from the Future

[oatworm]

Actually, you nailed it right on the head - it's possible for evolution to be proven "right" or "wrong" via testing. We can ask questions ("If I give bacteria some penicillin and don't kill off the entire colony, will the remaining bacteria evolve to have a greater resistance to that bacteria on the next go-around?") and receive answer ("Yup."). Creationism, on the other hand, is unprovable. There's no question we can ask it that it will answer usefully (i.e. The answer to the preceding question becomes, "Well, how complicated is the bacteria? We better ask The Creator, PBUH."). There's no way to prove or disprove it (For any organism that we can prove evolves, there will be a 'more complicated' one that will be considered 'impossible to evolve to').

That's why evolution is science - we can observe it, test it, apply it, and correct it or overturn it if we receive new data. Creationism does none of these things, which is why it's not science.

Now, as for Palin's stance on the subject, she did what I would expect any reasonable politician to do - she ran with what she knew, got corrected, and changed her position after receiving new data. Sounds pretty... scientific. I mean, hypothesis ("We should teach creationism!"), testing (Everyone else: "Creationism isn't science!"), conclusion ("Maybe we shouldn't teach creationism.").

Re:Quote from the Future

[Alsee]

To truly understand evolution

He said "Evolution is an extremely simple concept". The basic concepts of evolution are pretty simple to understand, so long as one does not come in actively not-wanting to understand.

A high school biology class of course needs to teach recessive genes. But evolution would still work even if there was no such thing as recessive genes. You can teach the basic concept of evolution without even getting into genetics. You start with the simple idea that tall people usually have tall children and that short people usually have short children. That a redheaded couple will have redheaded children, then you gloss over recessives and just say that dark-haired people generally have dark-haired children. You can even gloss past the word mutation just by talking about rare random changes or "birth defects". That a baby can be born with no head, and obviously it dies. And that sometimes a baby is born with six fingers, and that six-fingered people *do* have six-fingered children. Good changes survive and bad changes die. Then get into some other examples, like how a monkey might be born without all of that hair on it's body, and how it would have children that were also not-hairy, and how that leads to us. There are many small differences between us and monkeys, but we're really just tall not-so-hairy really smart monkeys.

That's not so bad as summarizing the basic idea of evolution, and that is shoehorned down into one pretty short paragraph at a super simplistic level. Given 15 minutes to talk with someone and you can easily fill out the explanation. The basic idea of evolution is fairly simple, and it's not hard to target it to almost any level of understanding from a kindergartener up to college-graduate-who-never-learned-it.

The only real problem is people who want NOT to understand it. Obviously people who don't want to understand it can never be convinced it's true no matter how much evidence you present. On the other hand I've run into a few people who have been misled by all the anti-evolution propaganda and have doubts about the validity of evolution, but so long as they are honestly interested in seeing and understanding the evidence then I have won them over as 100% converts to the truth of evolution after presenting a couple of examples should just how much and just how strong the evidence is.

-

Re:Exactly.

[crazyeddie740]

>Neither argument has been proven correct.

Science doesn't prove anything, it merely demonstrates. Proofs are for mathematicians and philosophers.

>And by correct I mean one animal/plant/insect changing from it's past form to a completely different present form.

1) Despite what TV SciFi will tell you (Star Trek, etc.), one animal can not evolve within it's own lifetime. Even in punctuated equilibrium, evolution happens over the course of thousands of generations.

2) Depends on what you mean by "species" or "form." The intellectuals of Darwin's day didn't believe in speciation for the same reason they didn't believe in alchemy - because it involved a change in "forms." But now we define elements by the number of protons contained in the nucleus, which can be modified. (That's how we make plutonium.) We've also redefined species. We now understand it in terms of reproductive isolation. Darwin said that if you asked the cattle breeders of his time if an Angus shared a common ancestor with a longhorn, they'd laugh at you - they're two different forms. Same thing with dog breeds - surely a dachshund and a St. Bernard are of different forms, right? Yet an Angus and a longhorn are of the same species, as are dachshund and St. Bernards. (Although that last pair is verging on a ring species...)

And, yes, speciation events (i.e., a single interbreeding population diverging into two different populations that are reproductively isolated) have been observed: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.html http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

> The statement that some dinosaurs evolved into Birds is NOT science either, it's just Darwin's Theory.

1) Theories are the very heart of science. 2) Darwin may have created the theory, but a gigillion others have banged on it since. For example, Darwin didn't know about genetics, and genetics has been banged on so much that Mendel would no longer recognize it. 3) IANAEB (I am not an evolutionary biologist, I'm just a philosopher), but: a) birds share several anatomic features with the fossilized dinosaurs we've found - they're more similar to dinosaurs than they are to mammals or lizards b) we've found fossils that are transitional between dinosaurs and modern birds c) a genetic analysis strongly suggests that T. rex's closest living relative is the chicken. Therefore: Along with the evidence we have for the Neo-Evolutionary Synthesis in general, we can abduct (not *deduct*!) that birds are descended from dinosaurs. (That is, birds and dinosaurs share a common ancestor, and we would classify the common ancestor as a dinosaur. Classification above the species level is somewhat arbitrary, and even species are fuzzy around the edges.)

> Teach both theories with evidence.

1) There is a great diversity in Creationist accounts - Old Earth vs. New Earth, just to give one. By contrast, there is a strong consensus among evolutionary biologists. There are disagreements among evolutionary biologists, but these are molehills that get turned into mountains because scientists want to spice things up a bit in their papers. They might argue about gradualism vs. punctuated equilibrium, but they can certainly agree on things like whether the Earth is a few thousand or a few billion years old. The Creationism "debate" isn't between two theories, it's between one theory and a very large sheaf of half-baked hypotheses/conspiracy theories.

2) While I won't argue that a given Creationist hypothesis isn't testable, I will say that, without exception, they have been disconfirmed by the available evidence down to an absurdly infinitesimal probability. (I'm going with a Bayesian account of theory confirmation here.) It's not logically impossible for one of them to be true (Quine-Duhem Thesis), but they'd require some drastic ad-hockery in order to bring them into line with available evidence. We're talking