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Virtual Telescope Zooms In On Milky Way Black Hole

FiReaNGeL writes "An international team has obtained the closest views ever of what is believed to be a super-massive black hole at the center of the Milky Way galaxy. The astronomers used radio dishes in Hawaii, Arizona and California to create a virtual telescope more than 2,800 miles across that is capable of seeing details more than 1,000 times finer than the Hubble Space Telescope. The target of the observations was the source known as Sagittarius A* ("A-star"), long thought to mark the position of a black hole whose mass is 4 million times greater than the sun. Though Sagittarius A* was discovered 30 years ago, the new observations for the first time have an angular resolution, or ability to observe small details, that is matched to the size of the event horizon."

41 of 181 comments (clear)

  1. obligatory by savuporo · · Score: 4, Funny

    Thats your basic Beowulf cluster of telescopes.

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    1. Re:obligatory by oodaloop · · Score: 3, Funny

      In a black hole, no one can see you scream.

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      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    2. Re:obligatory by CRCulver · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Thats your basic Beowulf cluster of telescopes.

      Appropriate in this case, because one of the most loved science fiction tale about the galatic core is Larry Niven's Beowulf Schaeffer story "At the Core" (collected in Neutron Star ). Niven, however, was writing before the idea of a supermassive black hole was current.

      Nonetheless, remembering Niven's story fills me with some dread at his suggestion that the close proximity of stars at the core would set off a chain of supernovas, eventually flooding the galactic periphery with deadly radiation. Now this Slashdot post has really put a downer on my day.

    3. Re:obligatory by nospam007 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      >... Now this Slashdot post has really put a downer on my day.

      Just follow the example of the Pierson Puppeteers and you'll be safe.

  2. On closer inspection by nickswitzer · · Score: 5, Funny

    An international team has obtained the closest views ever of what is believed to be a super-massive black hole at the center of the Milky Way galaxy.

    *Zoom Out*... "Is that?.. It.. it.. it's Oprah eating a klondike bar. Sorry folks, our mistake."

  3. Note by Colin+Smith · · Score: 3, Informative

    The milky way is our galaxy.

    Also, 2 different brands of chocolate bar.

     

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  4. freeresearcher.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "a virtual telescope more than 2,800 miles across that is capable of seeing details more than 1,000 times finer than the Hubble Space Telescope"

    - ok, but HST is an optical telescope, not "radio dish".

    1. Re:freeresearcher.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      They both have angular resolution. The radio telescope in question still has 1000 times the angular resolution of Hubble.

      What, exactly, is your peeve here?

    2. Re:freeresearcher.com by Fred_A · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "a virtual telescope more than 2,800 miles across that is capable of seeing details more than 1,000 times finer than the Hubble Space Telescope"

      - ok, but HST is an optical telescope, not "radio dish".

      It's all part of the same electromagnetic spectrum. The fact that you can only see a very narrow bit of it doesn't change the fact that the rest can be used to look at things with the right tools. The only difference is wavelength. If you had the right "eyes" it would all be the same to you.

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    3. Re:freeresearcher.com by eln · · Score: 5, Funny

      But if we don't see these things in the visible light spectrum, how will we ever recognize them during sightseeing trips? If someone tells us to "take a left at the purple nebula", but the nebula is actually brown in visible light, then we're going to get really, really lost.

  5. Interferometry by syousef · · Score: 4, Informative

    Can we stop saying "virtual telescopes" and start using the proper grown up terms? Interferometry and Aperture Synthesis aren't hard to understand. It's a pet peeve of mine, and slashdotters should be of a level of intelligence that they can understand this stuff.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_interferometer

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aperture_synthesis

    Yes you get the same angular resolution as a much larger telescope (one as big as the distance between the telescopes), which is why you do it. However it's important to note that you you don't increase the amount of radiation you're collecting - it's still just the sum of the telescopes you're using.

    I'll try to put it simply. Let's use optical telescopes as a familiar example. (In practice optical interferometry is much harder than radio astronomy, but I digress). The larger the diameter of the mirror (or lens) the more light we collect, and the smaller an object we can look at with reasonable detail (There is a physical relationship between the diameter of the telescope and the smallest thing you can resolve with it). We could space multiple telescopes a good distance apart and increase how small a piece of the sky we can look at in detail. The detail we could now resolve depends on the distance between the telescopes. However we're still only collecting as much light in total as the sum of the light collected by each scope. So even though we can look at a much smaller part of the sky, we won't be able to brighten up the image as much as if we had the larger telescope. It's still worth doing and it still yields discoveries, but it's not the same as having a massive telescope.

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    1. Re:Interferometry by Stormwatch · · Score: 5, Funny

      Aperture Synthesis

      We synthesize what we must because we can.

    2. Re:Interferometry by Maelwryth · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Agreed, and in the interests of an intelligent thread (to which I should not be posting) I bring you "STRUCTURE OF SAGITTARIUS A* AT 86 GHz USING VLBI CLOSURE QUANTITIES" which is actually worth reading if you want to get up to date on the research into Sagittarius A*.

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      I reserve the write to mangle english.
    3. Re:Interferometry by jriskin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Just out of curiosity, how far could you push something like this? If you had an array of Hubble sized telescopes in space and could put them whatever distance you'd like from each other, what sort of results could you get?

    4. Re:Interferometry by Maelwryth · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And this (pdf warning) might be of interest as well, as it is from S Doeleman July 2008.

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      I reserve the write to mangle english.
    5. Re:Interferometry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Veery good ones, but putting a telescope in the sky is 10-100 times the cost of one on the earth. That's why they are building ALMA, and they play with VLA, and SKA (square kilometer array).

    6. Re:Interferometry by Shag · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes. Please.

      And while we're at it, can article-writers stop referring to the submillimeter/microwave portion of the spectrum as "radio"?

      Linking together radio dishes is not a big deal - radio astronomy goes back to the 1930s, and the Very Long Baseline Array has stretched from Hawaii to the Virgin Islands for decades now.

      Linking together JCMT and SMA with some dishes on the mainland is a big deal in submillimeter astronomy. The Cosmic Microwave Background wasn't even discovered until the 1960s, and then it took another couple decades to develop serious observing capabilities. There's plenty of interferometry on Mauna Kea, both within the SMA and between the SMA and JCMT and/or CalTech Submillimeter Observatory, but that's all relatively short-baseline.

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      Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
    7. Re:Interferometry by caluml · · Score: 3, Informative

      And while we're at it, can article-writers stop referring to the submillimeter/microwave portion of the spectrum as "radio"?

      Just out of interest, why? It is part of the RF spectrum, just way way way up there. It's also good to call it that, because it reminds people that it's part of the same thing as light, xrays, Ham Radio, and mobile phones.

    8. Re:Interferometry by garfi5h · · Score: 3, Funny

      ... and they play with VLA, and SKA (square kilometer array).

      Cool! Can they play reggae or jazz to? ;-)

    9. Re:Interferometry by eclectic4 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Interferometry and Aperture Synthesis aren't hard to understand."

      Then...

      "I'll try to put it simply..."

      And with two wiki links included? Sheesh... now I know you stated that /.ers "should be of a level of intelligence that they can understand this stuff", which I believe is true enough, but you greatly underestimate our laziness. "Virtual telescope" works just fine for me... IANAA, and I never will be, sorry.

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      "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
    10. Re:Interferometry by syousef · · Score: 3, Informative
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      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    11. Re:Interferometry by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So when do we get the mobile phone telescope? We just need to get thousands of people to point their cellphone cameras at the same spot in the sky, right?

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      This guy's the limit!
    12. Re:Interferometry by Muad'Dave · · Score: 3, Informative

      I disagree. Your cable modem does indeed MOdulate and DEModulate digital signals to and from analog channels, just like the old-school telephone modem. Amateur radio folk call the things that convert digital signals to an analog representation and back 'modems'.

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  6. Obligatory by bemo56 · · Score: 4, Funny
    Black Holes suck!

    - I'll be here the whole week. Tip your waitress. Try the veal.

  7. Pics? by Feanturi · · Score: 5, Funny

    Pics or it didn't happen

    1. Re:Pics? by Psychotria · · Score: 4, Funny

      Pics or it didn't happen

      I believe that the pictures look pretty similar to the screenshots of Doom 4.

    2. Re:Pics? by suds · · Score: 5, Funny

      Here is one high resolution picture of the blackhole

      .

  8. First pics released! by TechnoBunny · · Score: 5, Funny
  9. Re:so... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    > what does the giant black hole spin around?

    Windows Vista

  10. Re:also... by Muczachan · · Score: 5, Informative

    Nope. Gravitic force gets weaker the further you get from the mass exerting it.

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  11. Paths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sagittarius A* ?
    Dijkstra's Scorpio is better :)

    Ok ok, I'm not a space nerd!

  12. Muse by invisiblerhino · · Score: 5, Funny

    As a physicist, I sometimes wish I could hear the words 'supermassive black hole' in a professional context without immediately thinking of that catchy song from their new album.

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  13. Re:Pics! by JustOK · · Score: 5, Funny

    with the gravitational pull it would look like:

    ><

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    rewriting history since 2109
  14. expanding ... by rohan972 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=expanding

    To determine that something is expanding you must first know its dimensions. Since we don't know the dimensions of the universe, we can't really tell if it is expanding or not. There is movement within the observed portion of the universe that is compatible with the concept of an expanding universe.

  15. Re:STOP SHOUTING! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Apologies, it was a straight copy and paste of the title. Luckily, I posted them in Chrome, so you may sue Google if you have suffered any permanent injuries as they hold all the rights :).

  16. Re:so... by bobdotorg · · Score: 5, Funny

    the moon and various satellites spin around the earth
    the earth and various other planetary objects spins around our sun
    our sun spins around a giant black hole
    what does the giant black hole spin around?

    An exceptionally massive turtle.

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  17. "Darwin" by Herve5 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Indeed the European Space Agency has had such a project for years: a space optical interferometer named Darwin, with an additional twist: by using descructive interferometry instead of constructive one, they intend to switch off a star in the center of the field of view, to see the planets around (these ones being way darker you wouldn't detect them otherwise), analyse the molecules in them etc. Needless to say, this project is still in its early phases, but indeed appears, with a schedule, in ESA's plans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(ESA)

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    Herve S.
  18. The Biggest....? by Frightened_Turtle · · Score: 3, Funny

    Hmm..... Near the "A-Star"?

    Does this mean that in the center of our galaxy is the biggest "A-Hole" in our galaxy?

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    Whew! This water sure is cold!
  19. Space Interferometry Mission (SIM) by mbone · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you had an array of Hubble sized telescopes in space and could put them whatever distance you'd like from each other, what sort of results could you get?

    That is basically the Space Interferometry Mission (SIM), which alas has had funding troubles recently. The component telescopes are not the size of the Hubble, but the idea is exactly as you suggest. One thing you could do with this is detect Earth sized planets in a solar system like ours out to a reasonable distance.

  20. Sagittarius A by da007 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Sagittarius A* - Previous location of the Large Hadron Collider

  21. Re:Black hole... where? by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here, actually.