Slashdot Mirror
David Foster Wallace an Apparent Suicide
snydeq passes along the news that David Foster Wallace was found dead Friday at his home in Claremont, California. Wallace's wife found her husband had hanged himself when she returned home at 9:30 PM Friday. The novelist, essayist, and humorist, best known for his 1996 novel Infinite Jest, was 46. Wallace had been awarded a MacArthur Foundation "genius grant" in 1997.
I just heard some sad news on talk radio - David Foster Wallace was found dead in his Claremont home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the American community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to Society and true American patriotism. Truly an American icon.
I've referred to NAFTA as "The Sin of O.N.A.N." ever since reading Infinite Jest.
I'm sorry to hear of his passing.
This ain't rocket surgery.
I had the opportunity to meet David at a book signing. He was an incredibly gracious and friendly individual who will be missed by many in the literary field as well as everywhere else.
As opposed to "with idiocy comes no madness"? It's there regardless of how clever you are.
Full Tilt
Professor David Foster Wallace of Pomona College's English Department died tragically on Friday. Professor Wallace was a well-known writer and gifted creative writing instructor. Pomona College has planned two events to remember Professor Wallace's life. The first will be tomorrow (Monday) evening at 6:45 - a candlelight memorial in the Peter Stanley academic quad. The second - an informal opportunity to share thoughts - will be Wednesday, September 17 at 4pm in Smith Campus Center 201.
Infinite Jest was an amazing book. Foster Wallace was an incredible writer. Very interesting and depressing. Time to read the jest again - ..
If you had, or knew anyone who had, an affective disorder that led to suicidal ideation or attempts, you wouldn't say that. Unless you actually are the ignorant, cold, and heartless ass your note reveals.
This space intentionally left blank.
Who read that as Stamford Wallace dead. I cheered. If you transform Spammers into non-humans, it is easy to cheer their demise.
Until I realised it was some guy I have never heard of. American Icon, true patriot? Maybe with his passing, you USians will need less of that.
He wrote a book that mostly makes fun of our dedication to corporatism and neo patriotism and all the things that have been wrong with our country in the past generation.
When they say 'true patriot' they mean the real one. Not a fox news patriot which are the worst kind.
(crossposted from Blacknell.net)
Sad.1 David Foster Wallace2, along with perhaps only William Gibson, had a reader in me for everything he wrote. So dedicated was I to his Infinite Jest that I carried it in planes, trains, and autobuses over three continents.3 If you've never read any of his work, maybe you could start with this brilliant 2005 essay on political talk radio.4
1And I say sad in some weirdly personal sense that comes from both finding his writing deeply compelling in itself, and identifying his work with a period of time in my life which is not missed, but stands out as significant in recollection.
2David Foster Wallace (or DFW, as he is popularly known among fans) also provided (albeit completely unknowingly) some of the reason that Blacknell.net exists today. The blog that inspired me to start my own was written by an alumnus of the law school I had just started in. He, in turn, had been motivated to write online (in a format once known as an "online journal") while he read Infinite Jest (nb. This same author once had an essay published in the same collection as DFW). An early autobiography of this online journal community is available here (it is amusing to consider how much energy was expended on the subject of diary v. journal, only to have blog become the accepted appellation).
3 A massive tome of a book with 1200 pages of writing to be relished and consumed (in addition to being read) I took two years to complete it, taking it to Panama, Venezuela, and Britain. I've since reread it (in sections, while it wasn't lent out).
4Even though it isn't entirely representative.
(Ah, for want of a superscript tag . . .)
it's well documented that great artists, writers, and people with other forms genius have a much higher incidence of mental disorders than the normal population.
generally speaking, creative/artistic individuals have a greater disposition for bipolarism. conversely, the children of mathematically gifted parents are more likely to develop autism or Asperger syndrome. that's why there's such a higher concentration of kids with Asperger syndrome in Silicon Valley.
I think it sucks(1) that he(2) died.(3)(4) We (5) need more (6) like him.(7)(8)
(1)Here, literally, I'm, of course, speaking metaphorically. I don't mean it literally sucked (like, say, the 500 dollar an hour prostitute sucked the republican hypocrites shriveled cock), but rather figuratively sucked (like, say, the republican hypocrites bill to put you in jail for the same prostitution related behavior). Incidentally, by "it", I can't tell if I mean the whole universe or his dying or if those might not be one and the same.
(2)David Foster Wallace, a brave writer who broke open peoples heads. Understood grammar structures and larger similar consciousness effect on conventions he altering did have.
(3) Due to concern for his family, I won't mention the obvious fact that a cover up of his botched murder is already underway by the CIA agents who killed him to stop him from publishing his new book, which would of liberated minds beyond the power of the narrow imaginations of the CIA to control.
(4) Did you ever notice how we always are sad people are dead, even though that obviously shows no empathy. Look, first of all, it's not like there was a David Foster Wallace. Any ego is an illusory construct, his was no exception. There may have been a self referential feedback pattern that thought it was David Foster Wallace, but that no more makes there a David Foster Wallace then David Foster Wallace thinking he is a blue potato makes him a blue potato.
Second of all, if he really wanted to die, and was in that much pain, who are we to judge. Can you imagine being David Foster Wallace and having to deal with idiots like you people all day, every day? Maybe we should be glad such a great mind is finally liberated from the pain of dealing with stupid dumb fucks like us (well, OK, just most of you) every day.
Third of all, if this was maybe an epic fail at autoerotic asphyxiation, as some scurrilous, borderline slanderous, and definitely inappropriately timed comments wryly have hinted at, we shouldn't think it's sad. The same perverted streak is probably what caused Grandpa Wallace to poke Grandma Wallace in the ass while she was butchering a pig. Without that perverted streak, the drop of cum his dad's dna was in would have never dripped out his grandmas dirty ass, and we would have never had him in the first place. It's misplaced to hate an aspect of nature that is responsible for the creation of things we like.
(5) I mean, again, you stupid fucks, who don't know how to use your brains.
(6) If certain theories about reincarnation are true, maybe DFW stepped out when he did because, at the magical, metalogical realms he walked in, he saw it as an optimal time to reincarnate to the best effect.
(7) In the sense of writing and thinking like he did.
(8) If we want more people that brilliant, we need to do a better job making the world not suck. People of the internet, it's not good enough to sit around reading about tech and science fiction while smoking pot and jacking off. If you don't use your brain right while your are reading science fiction, smoking pot, and jacking off to the same perverted porn that lead your parents to the sex act that made you, you might as well be in a church on your knees praying to a God that doesn't exist, or in a university fighting for biosurvival tickets, with which to do ridiculous rituals that have as much to do with truth as catholicism in many cases, with memetically sophisticated domesticated primates who fight over their ideas long after they have been rendered obsolete, or raising your kids to be as dogmatic as you are, for all the good it will do yourself, your world, and the nothingness you arise in and return to. What does it say about us and where we are headed in the 21st century that someone as brilliant as DFW wouldn't stick around and experience it? Can we do better than this?
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!
If you don't want to leap into "Infinite Jest," start with "Girl With Curious Hair."
When I was a kid, we only had one Darth.
This is a myth. For instance, Shakespeare was by most accounts a gregarious, sane and happy fellow.
The cake is a pie
Or, the parents in Silicon Valley tend to be wealthy enough to get their kids diagnosed with Asperger's, and medicated/trained into being "better" students... just a thought.
I'm suspicious of how well documented this link really is; let alone, that any evidence is totally observational. Of course the randomized study would be grossly immoral, even if it were possible.
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
Most great artists please many, but inside are miserable. God's greatest gifts make the receiver miserable, but give pleasure to many. Kind of fascinating to me. Almost like their internal misery is the source of their genius.
Apparently you never had anyone close to you commit suicide and therefor cannot understand why I consider people who take suicide willingly complete egoistic and ungrateful morons.
Those who commit suicide because they are mentally ill (schizofrenic, and such) and do not know right from wrong are excluded from this definition as they cannot possible be blamed for this utterly stupid and ultimate egoistic act.
Okay Troll I'll bite.
As a survivor of having a close relative commit suicide I can easily say that by the time they commit the act they are already mentally ill.
In my experience it takes at least some serious mental instability to even consider suicide as an option.
Quick frankly you should be ashamed of yourself for holding the viewpoint you do. They failed and broke but know this - the people around them failed as well and many of us, myself included, will carry that failure to our graves with us.
And if I could find the bridge you live under I would drag you out into the sunlight with the rest of us and stake you out in it until you realize how important it is to help those around you.
'Scuse me now while I go shower to remove your nasty trollish smell from my presence.
"Bah!" - Dogbert
Yet unlike you, he had the balls to sign his name to whatever he wrote.
Fuck off.
No slashdot discussion of DFW is completely without mentioning Everything and More. In addition to his fiction, he wrote an excellent non-fiction book about the history of mathematical infinity. Unlike most popular math books, it was interesting and not condescending. He clearly taught himself a good amount of Analysis in order to write so well on the subject. If any slashdotter wants to see what made this guy great, you'd do well to start there. Not only is it excellent writing, it's technically coherent and you'll likely learn something.
Appropriate here may be what he had to say about the popular story of Georg Cantor going insane trying to understand infinity (specifically the distinction between the infinity of integers, and the "larger" infinity of the real line):
"To lament Cantor's failure to describe infinity, is like feeling sorry that St. George lost to the Dragon. It is both wrong and insulting." (paraphrased)
Of course no one is lamenting DFW's failures per se, but I can't imagine many accomplished postmodern writers caring to get the grip on modern mathematics that DFW did. He didn't go for the low-hanging fruit, this guy.
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
Depression is a horrible thing and it hits many without notice and can be a horrible experience. Many of you will look at this death as weakness but the reality is some of the greatest and strongest people alive (and dead) have suffered with the demon that is depression for years often with no help and in complete ignorance by those around the sufferer.
Those who commit suicide are to blame for their actions unless someone forced them to do so. If you feel pity the deceased but not those left behind then you are the inhumane one.
You are judging the motives of suicides based on your own culture and ideals. Culturally and societally, there are reasons and causes for suicide that have nothing to do with mental instability historically and presently.
Personally, I view the act as an act of desperation, escape or destruction that can never be undone or repaired and should be avoided until absolutely all other options are explored and tested. There are times when I feel suicide may be appropriate, for example, in the case of the terminally ill. (My mother died of "natural causes" brought on by a degenerative nervous disorder and prayed for death and my own salvation for more than a year of unceasing misery before she finally died, choking to death in her sleep... presumably in her sleep... odds are good that she actually awoke while choking and dies of suffocation which I understand is actually rather painful.)
Suicide is a subject I have given a great deal of though and observation to. I find that suicides are too often unsuccessful, especially among women, and the chances of survival are too great. For this reason alone, suicide should be considered a very bad idea -- people just don't die the way they do in the movies. Hanging, for example, is a pretty horrible way to go -- you don't just magically die... and that death is ridiculously messy and disgusting.
There are a variety of other issues to concern one's self over and yes, some of them are rooted in family, society and culture. But generally speaking, people grow up within their own cultural ideals and beliefs. It is inappropriate to judge one culture, society or even an individual based specifically on your own ideals and beliefs. In it's own way, it is a form of prejudice as bad as any other.
You're not exactly showing a lot of bravery yourself, you cowardly little chickenshit punk. Identify yourself so I can beat your ass like you deserve - DO IT NOW!
Wow, I can find out who yourpusher is within two clicks of his comment. As opposed to 'strelitsa'... who is only known to us as "technical writer, rouge, dab hand with soldering iron".
This is, what, the pot calling the china black?
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I would draw a clear and bright line between what you say about David Foster Wallace ("he took the coward's way out") and others' reactions ("fawning news coverage"). The second point, I totally agree with you on. The first, I vehemently disagree.
We don't know why DFW committed suicide, and we might neverk now. But in the vast majority of cases, "cowardice" isn't even a relevant concept. Depression -- real, deep depression -- is not just about being in a crappy mood. Real depression (and other kinds of serious mental illness) messes you up so deeply that up seems like down and you cannot make rational sense out of yourself or the world. To call someone a "coward" implies that were faced with a choice and, with faculties intact, made a weak decision. Like I said, not a relevant concept for suicide.
And for the exact same reason, all the tributes making this into some sort of penetrating existential act of a man who saw the world too clearly... please! DFW was a brilliant thinker and writer, but his death is a tragedy and a loss. It is not an artistic act.
If you want to kill yourself, fine, go right ahead. Your life, end it if you wish.
But why in the world would anyone commit suicide by hanging? There are plenty of other options to choose from. Especially when most suicidal hangings are done WRONG and end up taking loads more time to die than they had intended.
Don't do it. It's stupid. Pick something else.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
You're arguing from a rational perspective here, but I don't believe people kill themselves while in a rational frame of mind. Instead it's an emotional choice, brought about either by events and an inability to deal with them, or a disorder that creates the belief that suicide is the only option.
Cool, rational debate isn't a feature of suicides.
Those who commit suicide are to blame for their actions
Blame? Whatever, we're not short on people, everybody should be allowed to kill them self. Only religious nut cases (i.e. the mis-informed) believe otherwise.
If you feel pity (for?) the deceased...
I'm so jealous, what could be easier?
Look dude, it's not your fault, you don't have to fight it so hard. They made their choice, you must let go, get on with your live, go and make your choices. You don't have to feel guilt for their death, you don't have project that guilt on to the deceased.
I see your pain, feel pity for you. I feel pity for you because you feel you deserve pity, and well that's kind of sad. I feel pity, because you feel so guilty about the death of your wife (this was your wife, right?), that you continue to blame her for your suffering longer after her last breath.
You must accept the the decision she made, not feel guilt, not feel a need to blame her. I get the feeling you lover her a lot, even if you're not the best husband in world.
Forgive you're wife, then forgive yourself. There is no point in wasting two lives over one death. Take care.
M0571y H@rml355.
If you like David Foster Wallace or would like to get a good idea of his style without diving headfirst into a novel, check out Consider the Lobster and Other Essays. It has the full range of his work, from literary criticism to a hilarious essay describing his trip to a porn convention and various rambling thoughts on pornography's relationship with "regular" society and art. There's some really great stuff in that.
RIP DFW.
"most accounts?" There's hardly any information about the person William Shakespeare.
My uncle committed suicide a few weeks ago. All I'm going to relate is the position of his church implied by the words of the presiding priest. He used a quote (that I can't remember the attribution of) which went along the lines of, "When someone does this, it is no different than if they were set upon and murdered in the woods." My take on it was that the person had been overcome by some outside force. We don't have a problem who are physically overcome; we reserve our derision for people who are overcome mentally. Not very fair in light of the truth I learned in martial arts, which is that there is ALWAYS someone faster, stronger, or better trained than you. No matter how much we care to think nothing can overcome our will and clear thinking, it seems manifestly untrue in light of events like this.
"Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
here's a list from Wikipedia that cites several sources. here is an article discussing the relationship between Autism/Asperger and genius. here is an article on Psychology Today that discusses a growing movement within academic circles that views autism and similar disorders as just part of the spectrum of neurodiversity that our society is comprised of. and if you do a search for "Geek Syndrome" you can find a Wired article that i believe may have been on Slashdot a few years ago. i also recall reading something a few years ago on PubMed that discussed the correlation between genius and mental disorder.
another interesting paper i read on PubMed also discussed the evolutionary advantage of Bipolarism. basically, the author(s) argued that while Bipolarism/Manic-Depression may present an evolutionary disadvantage to the individual, the genes have been perpetuated because it fosters altruistic actions which coincide with kin selection.
all of this makes a certain amount of sense to me. i've always felt that bipolarism endows an individual with greater capacity for emotional experience. this can be a beneficial trait to artists/musicians since good artwork is defined by its ability to evoke strong emotions, and, likewise, good artwork is often inspired by emotional trauma in the artist's life. but greater emotional depth can also enable one to better empathize with others, which could potentially lead to altruistic behavior.
Agreed. Depression is usually completely misunderstood by those with no experience of it, either direct or by loved one. Worse are the people who know someone is depressed and then tell them to "just snap out of it" or who pile on extra stress in other ways - it's like kicking the crutches out from someone with broken legs.
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
> You can't believe that the world would be better off with you dead - without giving yourself greater importance than EVERYTHING else in the world.
You are SO bad for the ENTIRE UNIVERSE that your death will cause a sigh of relief across the all of the existence.
Huh? Just because you think the universe is better off without you doesn't mean you think you are the worst thing in existance. I think the universe would be better off without, lets say, hay fever. Does that in any way imply that I think hay fever is the worst and/or most important thing in the world? No, and such a conclusion would make no sense at all. But if I think the world would be better off without me, then that suddenly means I give myself greater importance than everything else?
> As for grateful... How about for being alive?
Yes. Its a pain and a constant struggle but sure beats the alternative.
Grateful for being alive? Why? And to whom should we be grateful?
Suppose you think your life sucks. If you are dead, you do not experience anything at all, so I guess being dead qualifies as 'neutral'. Surely if you really dislike your life and see no way to change this, then surely the rational thing is to die since that would be an improvement (it ends your suffering forever).
I guess there's not enough bridges being trip-tropped tonight.
Your ad here.
They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier.
This is a great loss. Just the other day, I finished reading 'Consider the Lobster', and I thought every one of those essays was interesting, funny, informative and insightful.
I hope it's not selfish to say that I'm sad that now there will never be a new 'Infinite Jest'.
I lost some good friends to suicide and I myself tried to kill myself when my mental illness and stress in my life became too much for me to take anymore. Part of that was trolls on IWETHEY, Kuro5hin, etc telling me to go kill myself or the "shotgun mouthwash now!" comments. I even had coworkers and managers telling me to kill myself. This sort of abuse happens to mentally ill people, and in some mental states we actually do it or try to kill ourselves.
Once or twice I had to fake my suicide online via an alt.suicide.holiday to get my suicidal thoughts out of my head. People still give me a hard time for that as well.
Friends of mine that killed themselves had anonymous people calling them on the phone at 3am waking them up, and the very same thing happened to me and my family. For those doing that sort of thing please quit. I do not want to kill myself.
I just got over panic attacks due to a big storm in my area that knocked out power, phones, and caused some flooding. I am not in the mood for people to start calling mentally ill people as egomaniacs, or selfish. We are not sociopaths, as sociopaths feel no pain, most of us mentally ill people kill ourselves because we are in great pain and don't want to suffer anymore. If you've never been suicidal in your life, kindly shut the F up about those of us who have been suicidal or had friends and family that killed themselves.
It never ends, ever since 2002 I've been on disability because of this stuff, and people still won't leave me alone. They still want me to kill myself and I changed my phone numbers and email addresses and I still get harassed. Kindly quit, I refuse to kill myself because some anonymous trolls decided to troll me in real life and at my work and at my home and even dragged my friends and family members into it.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
The word "survivor" has different contexts, and you're using it in a popular but not exlusive one.
"Person X is survived by their wife and children," is used simply to mean that when person X died, their wife and children lived on. It doesn't mean they all faced some danger together.
It only means that people lived on.
In fact, dictionary.com has "to remain alive after the death of someone," as the first definition.
It's correct to say that the family of a suicide are survivors.
I realize feeding the trolls is a bad idea, but as a Mudder myself, I'd hate for the casual reader to get the wrong idea about us from the AC. Mudd is a liberal arts school with a strong humanities & social science emphasis in addition to all of the thermionic emissions and np completeness stuff. If you want to call English and religious studies (the latter of which I'm concentrating in) 'fluff', then, yeah, Mudd is about 'fluff'.
Remember, open source is free as in speech, not free as in bear.
I have considered suicide many times on a purley rational level. This is not a joke, I seriously sit around and think about this stuff. Here are some of my motives for rationally killing myself:
1. Curiosity. What happens when you die? Is there life after death? Is there a supernatural expirience to death? Can I find a mechanism to kill myself temporarily then revive before brain damage and still find the above answers? Will my subjective expiriences of death counter those of other near death expiriences?
2. Politics. If I am extremely old and ill, should I go on a death mission (example, assissinate George W. Bush, whoops thats a echelon2 dictionary word) before I die, for a precieved good for society? Basically martarydom.
3. Finances. Find a way to get insurance to cover sucidal death (as a mental illness), then kill your self when your really old anyways so your grand kids can have additional money from the insurance agency.
4. Illness. Why deal with the pain? Best works when combined with number 3 and 2.
5. Art/Fame. I often considered how suicide could be used as an artwork to codify works in history.
6. Fun. Trying something you always wanted to do, but knew it would result in death. For example, playing paint ball in iraq while dressed as the al queda (damn another echelon keyword).
7. Revenge. I dont have anything against anyone I personally know, but revenge could also be a rationalized form of suicide. I.E. setting somone you didnt like up to make the crime scene look like a murder, when it was actually a suicide. Could be political. I.E. Creating a false scnario where it appears that a cop killed you with unjustified force to influence publics opinion on security and management of police forces.
The conclusion of my rationalisations? Makeveli's The Price answered it best, faking your death would just as easily work for all these scanrios other than physical ailments.
While sucide can be commited for rational reasons in special cases, a truly rationalized thought process should also include the possibilty of a fake suicide.
...a supposedly fun thing he'll never do again.
"I guess the moral of the story is, don't paint your airship with rocket fuel." -- Addison Bain
So, now we know. Karl Rove reads Slashdot.
http://www.rootstrikers.org/