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Microsoft Says IE8 Phoning Home Is "Pretty Innocuous"

Posted by kdawson on from the unlike-that-other-browser dept.

CWmike writes "Microsoft has defended the IE8 tool that suggests sites based on URLs typed into its address bar, saying that the browser 'phones home' only a limited amount of information to Microsoft and that the company discards all user IP addresses almost immediately. Company managers also contrasted IE8 Beta 2's 'Suggested Sites' feature with the 'Suggest' feature used by Google Chrome, saying that Microsoft's requires the user's explicit permission before it's used. They did acknowledge a bug that prevents the request from reappearing when users reinstall the browser. Cyra Richardson, a Microsoft principal program manager on the IE team, said: 'Suggested Sites is connected to the browser's history, and it's not looking at each of the keystrokes. IE only captures the URL as it is navigated [to], when that URL goes into your history.' Nor does Suggested Sites log and transmit cookies to Microsoft's servers, as does Google Suggest, Richardson said. 'The data we log is actually pretty innocuous.'"

26 of 194 comments (clear)

  1. What did you expect them to say? by line-bundle · · Score: 5, Funny

    "We are going to use the data to sell you Zunes?"

    1. Re:What did you expect them to say? by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Funny

      If Google does it, it is because they are using the information to help us.
      If Microsoft does it, it is used for evil.

      CONSISTENCY PEOPLE!

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  2. Just remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    If Google does it, they do it because they "probably have to." Luckily, they said they "do no evil" so that means they're absolute good and thus immune to scrutiny.

    If Microsoft does it, then they're obviously logging all the data on you and plan to sell it to the highest bidder, to use to pay for restrictive DRM technologies and run over old ladies in the street. Though you do not have facts to back up the last statement, you've always conceded that they are a luxury around here. Besides, Microsoft is a convicted monopolist, which somehow magically changes all the rules on logical arguments, or something.

    Did I get it all right? I know there's nothing about Apple in here, but I'll try harder next time.

    1. Re:Just remember... by lewp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Eh, privacy nuts get on Google about things like crazy nowadays. I seriously doubt either company is up to some nefarious plot to stealz mah dataz through my web browser, but I don't mind some of the more paranoid folks keeping them honest. If they have to explain to an angry person every time they collect a piece of info, I figure they'll be less likely to try and pull a fast one.

      --
      Game... blouses.
    2. Re:Just remember... by blahplusplus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "If Google does it, they do it because they "probably have to." Luckily, they said they "do no evil" so that means they're absolute good and thus immune to scrutiny."

      It's been obvious to anyone with half a brain that google (and most other websites who are able to and have a clue) logs damn near everything. Many are just covert / quiet about it.

      Technically makes privacy pretty moot unless we pass laws enforcing companies to build encryption into everything. The truth is the majority of people are not educated enough, nor even have an inkling of an idea of how computers work and that everything they do is recorded, that when you're on the internet you are totally naked.

      The nature of networks themselves by having to communicate back and forth with one another in order to 'browse' (really in the ultimate sense sending and receiving files and bits of data). Means you are constantly broadcasting and receiving data, thereby leaving all those breadcrumbs for everyone who has a clue to read about you and compile on you.

      The fact is though we have done this to ourselves by adopting technologies and caring more about content and what value it adds to our lives then any amount of the values in regards to privacy we claim to care about... the internet and our lack of encryption/laws, etc, enforcing security of information from the get go proves we don't give a fuck about privacy very much. Simply because it's too inconvenient.

      The really hard core about privacy (tor, encryption, etc) are evidence of the common man, and probably common slashdotter's total lack of concern about his or her own privacy. Otherwise we'd be using them and demanding these services but no one wants to expend the political energy an/or the money to pay for them. Hence we don't really give as much of a fuck as we seem to since our actions do not match our words in regards to the amount of whining about privacy we output.

    3. Re:Just remember... by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Though you do not have facts to back up the last statement, you've always conceded that they are a luxury around here.

      Holy Jesus man, have you even been to any other web forum? Compared to the normal signal-to-noise ratio on the internet, Slashdot (if you browse at +3 or +4) is a cut or three above just about anything else, and almost exclusively so for unmoderated forums. But yeah, other than that, you hit the "groupthink" idea right on, except for that a lot of people, lately, have been getting annoyed at google's "collect data for everything" policy, among other things.

    4. Re:Just remember... by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      My question is, what does "almost immediately" mean?

      In my experience, PR/advertising/lawyer types are very careful what they say. They don't lie outright, but will frequently mislead with seemingly innocuous statements that seem to mean one thing, but when they are really looked at, mean something else entirely.
      If they'd said that IP addresses were discarded immediately, that would mean that as soon as the information transaction is completed, the IP address is no longer needed, so it's discarded.

      Saying "almost" immediately, means it is not discarded at this point. What does "almost" mean in this context, coming from a Microsoft PR person?
      Is it discarded almost immediately, after a "small" amount of data analysis is done for marketing purposes?
      Is it discarded almost immediately after a scheduled task to purge their server logs once a day?
      Is it discarded almost immediately after the DOJ gets on their case about keeping it?

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    5. Re:Just remember... by ScreamingCactus · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Almost immediately" means it's discarded right after the URL is linked to your profile in their Global Database of Evil and forwarded to hundreds of Cheap Viagra internet companies and the NSA, all of which takes about a second, which IS almost immediately.

      --
      The path to enlightenment is truly through homemade drugs!
    6. Re:Just remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well if you'd just RTFA... you'd see that "PR/advertising/lawyer types" did not say "almost immediately", the journalist did.

      What was said by Microsoft about the IP was quite clear:

      "We capture as little uniquely identifiable information as possible," said Cyra Richardson, a Microsoft principal program manager on the IE team. "We capture the URL that the user is visiting, the version of the browser and general locale information."

      To determine the latter, and to know where to send the suggested site results, Microsoft also captures the IP address of the user, said Richardson. But unlike Google, Microsoft tosses the IP address as soon as it delivers the recommendations. "We take the IP address, get all the information that we need from it and then throw out the address," said Andy Zeigler, a program manager with the IE group. Richardson confirmed that the Suggested Sites database contained no user IP addresses.

      But I guess that's no good for your water-cooler soap-box look-at-me speech, is it?

    7. Re:Just remember... by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 4, Funny

      ...that when you're on the internet you are totally naked.

      Speak for yourself.

    8. Re:Just remember... by I'm+Don+Giovanni · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In other words, no matter what Microsoft says or does, you'll condemn them, so what's the point? You've made up your mind to condemn Microsoft regardless while giving Google a pass for much worse.

      You're logic is astonishing. Microsoft's Suggested Sites feature is much less intrusive than Google's yet you condemn Microsoft because they might become more intrusive in the future? Meanwhile you give Google a pass for being more intrusive than Microsoft in the present? Are you for real?

      --
      -- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
  3. Suggestions? by Waccoon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, we see "targeted" ads and have "suggestive" sponsorship in other browsers in exchange for getting the browser for free.

    Isn't IE a part of Windows, and don't we sort of pay for it already?

    1. Re:Suggestions? by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 5, Funny

      People pay for Windows?

      Yes, almost every time I use it.

  4. pr0n by pizzach · · Score: 4, Funny

    I absolutely hate site suggestions when I mistype an URL. Why? Because if the url contains the phrase "kicks-ass", my ISP starts advertising porn.

    --
    Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
    1. Re:pr0n by pyrrhonist · · Score: 4, Funny

      I get porn suggested just b/c i type in 'tea-bag' but then I'm like..hmmm this looks interesting.

      ProTip: Instead of searching, bookmark Bungie.net for when you want to see your Halo profile.

      --
      Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
  5. Open up the protocol by henrypijames · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Microsoft and Google should just publish the exact data exchange protocol used by their respective "smart search" features -- and keeps those documentations up to date, of course.

    The protocols are gonna get out, anyway -- someone will snoop them out soon enough. Better have an official documentation than endless wild rumors, and the whole thing would hardly cost any resources.

  6. Danger Signs by StefanJ · · Score: 5, Funny

    1) After installing IE8, webcam tracks your movements around the room.

    2) Strange giggling from PC speakers when you Agree to the EULA.

    3) When you start Spybot Search & Destroy you get a phone call from someone sounding an awful lot like Jerry Seinfeld threatening your pets.

    4) Paperclip is back, and now its mad.

    5) The next time you hear the phrase "actually pretty innocuous" is in President Palin's speech about what happens in Loyal Citizens' Youth Brigade moral rectification camps.

    6) You printer puts job sheets at the beginning of each document. Job sheets with coupons for Brawndo.

    7) Activity gadget in upper right hand corner of browser is a Total Information Awareness icon.

    8) Entering URL for Chrome download page redirects to gay furry bondage snuff porn site.

    9) After refusing to upgrade to IE8 you wake up to find the Firefox's severed head on your bed.

    10) Ghost of grandmother appears to you in dream, begging you to install Ubuntu. Which is just plain weird because she was a Slackware fan!

  7. Time for some absolutism. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am sick of hearing how XYZ is ok because "Look, foo does bar!". It annoys me in politics, and it annoys me in the disgusting race to the bottom that is our handling of the "consumer desktop". Yes, I know that google is injecting ads into my dreams, that doesn't mean I want microsoft pulling my url history. Yes, I know that EA prefers DRM that is draconian and incompetent, that doesn't make "fairplay" any fairer.

    People need to stop hiding behind the even worse failings of others, and start justifying themselves in terms of why they don't suck rather than why the suck incrementally less than the other guy. FFS.

    /rant

    1. Re:Time for some absolutism. by RobertM1968 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wow... an intelligent post!!! Someone mod this -1 Overrated or -1 Offtopic, or some other minus moderation quickly! ;-)

      Or... maybe someone with mod points can mod it up, since it is one of the most insightful posts in this topic so far. Fuzzy is right on the mark... Microsoft's (and too many other companies who are starting to play the same game) answer sounds like my brother and I when we were little kids... "But he did that!!!"

      This isn't elementary school. These are supposed to be businesses.

      --
      StarTrekPhase2 - The Five Year Mission Continues!
  8. Opt-in service by linumax · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If it's opt-in then how is it a problem? They're not forcing you in any way.

  9. Re:Let me get this straight... by Stan+Vassilev · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A big, powerful, arrogant company is telling me that their very iffy handling of my personal data is "OK" because some other big, powerful and arrogant company is already doing pretty much the same?

    Spinning things against Microsoft/Google even if there's no basis for your statements, is just as bad as Microsoft/Google spinning things in their favor when there IS basis.

    In both cases, it's disinformation which promotes acting on "gut feelings" and ignorance.

    The feature is quite innocent and handy, as it's apparent that anything less would be torn apart from the community.

    Last couple of years Microsoft is showing some signs of listening to their customers and they're well on track repairing their IE/Vista fiascos. If all they get in return is the same overly negative responses, they'll just stop trying.

  10. Users say piracy is pretty innocuous by syousef · · Score: 4, Interesting

    After all most users who pirate Microsoft products discard most of them almost immediately.

    Yeah that works doesn't it? If you violate someone's right's it's not okay just because you do it for a short time! Cuts both ways.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  11. Gay Furry Bondage Snuff Porn! WHEE! by zooblethorpe · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wow, I'm impressed. Googling for "gay furry bondage snuff porn" produces your post here as the top hit only a couple hours after you posted.

    Aside from being impressed, I'm also somehow disappointed... ;)

    Cheers,

    --
    "What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
    "A four-foot prune."
  12. A better feature by CrackedButter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    would be for browsers to have auto correction feature in the address bar. I've typed a comma many times into the bar by accident and no website uses them but why does the browser insist on searching first before telling me the address is incorrect. It should note the error and replace it with the full stop.

    --
    Jonathanjk.com
  13. Re:Gay Furry Bondage Snuff Porn! WHEE! by PrinceOfStorms · · Score: 5, Funny

    A quick check of this revealed that you are now number one! Congratulations...I think.

  14. Did you have Google preinstalled? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Or could you choose another browser?

    Now, can you remove IE from windows?

    RATIONAL THOUGHT, PEOPLE!