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Software Spots Spin In Political Speeches

Posted by samzenpus on from the liars-and-filthy-liars dept.

T.S. Ackerman writes "According to an article in NewScientist Tech, there is now software that can identify the amount of spin in a politician or candidate's speech. From the article, 'Blink and you would have missed it. The expression of disgust on former US president Bill Clinton's face during his speech to the Democratic National Convention as he says "Obama" lasts for just a fraction of a second. But to Paul Ekman it was glaringly obvious. "Given that he probably feels jilted that his wife Hillary didn't get the nomination, I would have to say that the entire speech was actually given very gracefully," says Ekman, who has studied people's facial expressions and how they relate to what they are thinking for over 40 years.' The article goes on to analyze the amount of spin in each of the candidates running for president, and the results are that Obama spins the most."

32 of 438 comments (clear)

  1. Subject by Legion303 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Perhaps I missed it, so could someone kindly point out where the New "Scientist" article quantified "spin"? Thanks in advance.

    1. Re:Subject by Minwee · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's defined in the customary way -- As anything which runs contrary to the listener's political views, or is said by someone whom they personally dislike.

      The way the article describes it, this is just an algorithm which counts how closely the speaker's diction and delivery match those used by McCain and assigns a value for the McCaininess of the speech. Calling it "spin" is, well, an interesting spin.

    2. Re:Subject by thedonger · · Score: 3, Informative

      Spin isn't lying so much as it is making something look good for you whether or not they really are. Good spin doesn't lie.

      Example: Katrina was a disaster. Someone wanting to blame FEMA spins the story so FEMA is the bad guy. Someone else can tell the same story (same facts) and make the mayor of N.O. the bad guy. No one is lying so much as they are carefully ignoring certain facts and emphasizing others.

      --
      Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
    3. Re:Subject by jpate · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The algorithm does seem to consist primarily of a bunch of intuitions that David Skillicorn (http://skillicorn.wordpress.com/) has had about what textual attributes correlate with spin. The fact that statistical counts over the speeches gave different results for different politicians/speech writers is not surprising: such counts are specific to individual authors and can be used, for example, to identify authorship in the Federalist Papers (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.9.7388). I'm very skeptical that Skillicorn has shown that these politicians are more or less prone to spin; more likely he's verified that they (and their speech writers) are, in fact, distinct people.

    4. Re:Subject by tbannist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Lying by omission implies that you are leaving out pertinent facts to mislead your audience. Not that you are leaving out unrelated facts.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    5. Re:Subject by rtb61 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The catch with the analysis of spin is of course, cultural differences, in language usage and expressions. In addition a good speech writer and of course speech presenter are required to alter their language and presentation to suit different audiences. Language and expressions and well as the content of the message needs to be different for, blue collars workers than to a group of students and educators or a broad community group, whilst the intent might be be same, the content will vary for each group and the focus of the presentation will shift to those areas each group has greater interest in.

      Now as to the interpretation of the level of spin, the baseline will be shifted to align with the professor cultural baseline, his choice of language and expressions as well as his political alignment, not necessarily consciously but it is inevitable that it will occur subconsciously.

      The is only one way to detect and clear away spin, record the speech and fact check it for lies and when lies / spin is discovered publish it all over the internet. Attempting it any other way just doesn't make any real sense, especially without knowing any of the speech writers and their cultural biases.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    6. Re:Subject by letxa2000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's defined in the customary way -- As anything which runs contrary to the listener's political views, or is said by someone whom they personally dislike.

      That's possible. And if we're cynical, we might even say it's probable.

      But it's entirely possible that a very objective criteria was used based on known psychological information. Psychologists and others are very good at learning quite a few things about people by things that most of us don't know--at least not consciously... body language, speech inflections, eye contact, handwriting, etc.

      I'm not at all an expert in this field but unless you have evidence that the algorithm was truly biased and based on the way McCain talks, I think it would behoove you to consider the possibility that just maybe the algorithm picked up on something about Obama that you hadn't picked up on yourself. At least consider the possibility before smearing the article/algorithm/etc.

    7. Re:Subject by dubl-u · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The algorithm does seem to consist primarily of a bunch of intuitions that David Skillicorn has had about what textual attributes correlate with spin.

      And I'll note here that Skillicorn is a computer scientist, not a cognitive scientist. If we're just talking about his intuitions, then I'm not seeing why I should trust his over anybody else's.

      He seems to hang a lot on Obama's use of "we" instead of "I". It seems to me that heavy use of "we" is exactly how community organizers would talk. Not because they're spinning, but because they're trained to generate collective action.

      And heck, that's what I like about him. After 9/11, a great national tragedy, I wanted to serve, to help, but George Bush told me to go shopping. It was a bit of a letdown. This election, I'm really excited that both McCain and Obama truly believe in public service. But I think Obama's much better at getting people to actually do it.

  2. Surely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    there are more important things to talk about in this race - economy, Iraq, education, health, science policy, Saturday Night Live.

    Why focus on this pseudoscience?

  3. That's Easy--They're ALWAYS Spinning by curmudgeon99 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I could write the logic myself

    if( politician.isAlive() && mouth.isOpen() )
    {
    isSpinning = true;
    return isSpinning;
    }

  4. Spin = Good Rhetorical Argument by ShadowRangerRIT · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From reading the article, it appears that by spin, they mean "adhering to the rules your old English teacher laid down for rhetorical arguments." For example, don't qualify statements, since it waters down your argument needlessly. Don't use "I"; it makes it sound like you're the only one who holds your opinion, so use "we" when needed to help draw others in.

    What this doesn't seem to do is provide any insight into how much the person in question shades the truth. Telling a bald-faced lie plainly won't set it off; wrapping up the truth in an eloquent package will.

    --
    $_ = "wftedskaebjgdpjgidbsmnjgcdwatb"; tr/a-z/oh, turtleneck Phrase Jar!/; print
    1. Re:Spin = Good Rhetorical Argument by catfood · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm repeating something that also happens to be in some of the comments on TFA, but: Since when does use of "we" instead of "I" indicate spin or deception? If that's your standard, the guy who thinks in terms of a movement, who sees the country as a grand collaboration, is always going to come out as dishonest. And the guy who talks about rugged individualism is going to look like a straight shooter, even if his statements on policy are self-contradicting nonsense.

      How is "Yes we can!" so much worse than "I won't raise your taxes"?

    2. Re:Spin = Good Rhetorical Argument by b96miata · · Score: 5, Interesting

      because the "movement" won't be in office. The politician will.

      "Yes we can" is a crap soundbite that sways people who listen to crap soundbites, and it also has the advantage of allowing every (potential) voter to fill in their own definition of what "we" can do, while sticking the polit. with zero accountability.

      "I won't raise your taxes", or "I won't attempt to further restrict the right to bear arms" would be widely regarded as a campaign promise, and would be damaging if broken.

      If you say nothing of substance, it's harder to be accused of lying.

      This doesn't necessarily mean any use of "we" is bad, but your chosen examples are vastly different statements.

  5. Obama spinning? by tjstork · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Even though I'm a Republican, I have to concede that Obama is one of the most gifted speakers to come along for quite some time. He's an absolutely magnetic speaker and a great advocate for that which he believes, and when I watch him, I almost have to smack myself to snap out of it. I can't stand the guy's politics, but I am proud that he's an American.

    --
    This is my sig.
    1. Re:Obama spinning? by Foolicious · · Score: 4, Funny

      and when I watch him, I almost have to smack myself to snap out of it

      I think this says more about you than Obama.

      --
      Please don't use "umm" or "err" or "erm".
    2. Re:Obama spinning? by db32 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It was like a million conservatives cried out and then were suddenly silenced.

      You do realize how many neocon types just had their heads implode due to your statement there right? I mean, I generally consider myself conservative (in the old sense, when it mean fiscal and political conservative and social liberal because a real conservative doesn't want the government mucking in the personal affairs of people.). I most certainly do not consider myself a Republican. The modern Republicans have fucked our nation up possibly beyond repair with their rhetoric and god aweful policy. They have the balls to claim Democrats will spend more when they currently hold the record for spending!

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
    3. Re:Obama spinning? by torstenvl · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What policies do you disagree with?
      - NOT firing our best Arab linguists when we're at war in the Middle East?
      - Providing mandatory healthcare to children?
      - Making healthcare affordable but optional for adults?
      - Reforming the tax code so it doesn't take a graduate degree to know how much your bill should be?
      - Investing in science and research so China doesn't kick our asses so handily in the next decade as they have in the past decade?
      - Increasing funding for charter schools so that even poor people can have school choice?
      - Moving race-based affirmative action toward a more socioeconomic-based affirmative action, so that his daughters are judged more fairly compared to a rural white boy with an underfunded school?
      - Ending an immoral war by setting concrete timelines, but recognizing that they may have to be modified depending on the conditions on the ground?
      - Reducing the incidence and unfairness of the death penalty, while understanding that certain heinous crimes deserve the full outrage of the nation?
      - Better sex education, so that there are fewer unexpected pregnancies, and so that when there are unexpected pregnancies, the women know there are options BESIDES abortion?

      Exactly what policy do you object to?

      I can't think of a single reason to support McCain's platform unless a) you make over $250,000/year; AND b) you're of the mind that you should keep all of it, no matter the cost to your community and country.

    4. Re:Obama spinning? by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Clinton balanced the budget but gutting the military

      "Gutting" the military? During the Clinton years we still spent far and away more on "defense" than any other nation; the "defense" budget remained bloated. During the Clinton years, American military spending made up a larger percentage of the world's total military spending than it did in the Regan years.

      Had we really trimmed it, we would probably have reduced the number of troops overseas. Including those in the Middle East. Like in Saudi Arabia. You know, the troops whose presence so provoked bin Laden.

      If we'd really "gutted" the military, i.e. reduced it to its rightful role of defending the nation, and exerted forgein influence by economic and diplomatic means rather than by military bullying, odds are very good that no one would have been motived to hijack planes and fly them into American buildings.

      This is not to say that terrorism against the U.S. was or is justified. But like any crime, it does have a motivation.

      (Let me point out that if we followed the Founder's plan, we wouldn't even have a standing army. And yet, someone, serving in an institution whose very existence was opposed by the Founding Fathers, has someone come to be seen as "patriotic". Remarkable.)

      Wonder who gets the blame for the intelligence failures of 2000 - 2004?

      Rightfully, the guys who were at the top, who chose to ignore the completely adequate data and clear warnings they were given by the intelligence community, bear the blame.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    5. Re:Obama spinning? by torstenvl · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Then you're just, quite simply, un-American. It is the purpose of the Federal government to "promote the general welfare." It is our duty as citizens to protect each other from outside threats, and our duty as humans not to let the poor among us die in the streets.

      The Republican party likes to talk about the Bible and responsibility. What happened to "love thy neighbor," and how is monetary greed anything but the shirking of responsibility?

      There's only one man in the Bible to complain about the expectation that he was his brother's keeper. He seems like a pretty good metaphor for the Republican Party.

    6. Re:Obama spinning? by Terwin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Even if I personally don't make over 250K/year, my employer does, and that means that I will be paying these higher taxes too.
      Either I will need to do the work of people that they cannot afford to hire, or they will not be able to give me the wage that they otherwise could.

      Think about it, how many companies that provide reasonable jobs can exist with revenue of less than 250K?

      Also, can you name a single company (that is not in the process of going out of business) on any of the major stock exchanges that makes less than 250K? What happens to their stock prices when they suddenly need to pay more taxes? How about all those pensions and retirement accounts that are invested in the stock market?

      Do you really think that the CEOs will pull that money out of their pockets?
      It will come from all of us in the form of higher prices.

      If you allow the government to mandate health care for any group, then they get to define what that health care entails. This will quickly be taken over by special interests, assuming they don't let the drug companies write the laws to begin with. Do you really want someone who is in the pocket of the pharmaceutical companies to write the health care plan for your children? Sounds like a way to mandate all children to take a bunch of high-margin pills that either don't do any good, or may even turn out to be harmful in the long run... (How about ground-breaking new medical advances, do you want to watch your child die while waiting for the bureaucracy to decide that it is an OK procedure for them to pay for?)

      Considering that all of these programs will be either run or set up by politicians, I don't see anything in your list that I would want the government to do for me.

    7. Re:Obama spinning? by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is the purpose of the Federal government to "promote the general welfare."

      Yes, in specific ways, all of which are enumerated in the Constitution. Many of the items on the GGP's list are not Constitutional.

      The following are internal government affairs or enumerated powers, and perfectly Constitutional:

      • not firing linguists
      • ending an immoral war
      • reforming the tax code

      The following are not within the purview of the federal government:

      • healthcare
      • investing in science and research
      • funding for charter schools
      • affirmative action
      • education (including sex education)

      The last point, "reducing the incidence and unfairness of the death penalty," is too broadly worded to properly categorize. For the most part specific criminal penalties, including the death penalty, fall under state jurisdiction.

      It is our duty as citizens to protect each other from outside threats, and our duty as humans not to let the poor among us die in the streets.

      I have no problem with that, but what does it have to do with the federal government? It seems to me that, rather than defining and carrying out your own duty, you only wish to coerce others into performing what you unilaterally declare to be their duty toward you, or in support of your goals. Government is not a legitimate tool with which to enforce your personal views onto others--no matter how popular those views might be.

      There's only one man in the Bible to complain about the expectation that he was his brother's keeper.

      Yes, but Cain's sins were jealousy and murder, not indifference. There is nothing to suggest that Cain was ever expected to act as his brother's keeper; his non sequitur response was merely a futile attempt to avoid the question.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
  6. A bit strange. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Am I the only one that finds it a bit strange that the Presidential Candidates are on the opposing ends of that
    "spin" graph?

    It kinda gives a bit pseudoscience with political motivations feel to it.

  7. Re:So what's new by oodaloop · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am shocked.

    Yes, *yawn* I am too. Who would have guessed the candidate with no experience and a carefully-prepared thoughtful thousand yard stare would use more spin than a self-described straight shooter?

    --
    Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
  8. Obama doesn;t realyl say much by 91degrees · · Score: 3, Funny

    I've always been impressed by Obama's ability to give a speech, and not actually say anything.

    It makes him very popular. It's all vaguely positive. There's very little for anyone to actually disagree with.

  9. Psychology is not an exact science by Viol8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Therefor saying that he expressed digust over Obama is pushing it a bit. Even if that was what his facial expression meant there could have been many other things on his (or anyone else in that situation) mind. Perhaps he just had wind, who knows. MOst of these "I know what someone is thinking from fleeting facial expression" types are just modern day snake oil sellers.

    1. Re:Psychology is not an exact science by Tom · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You should read up on Ekman. The guy is one of the top authorities on the subject. He has written a few books. Read one or two and check what his claims really are and how much substance and research he can put behind them.

      In short: He doesn't claim he can read thoughts, he claims that emotions show up on your face. He also claims to have identified a short list of universal (world-wide, culture-independent) expressions that belong to specific emotions. He's travelled pretty much everywhere on the globe, from western society to primitive jungle tribes and made many thousands of photographs showing those expressions. And yes, the books describe in detail how the emotions were roused so they could be reasonably sure they got the proper one.

      Like all mainstream media, the article simplifies things quite a lot. That doesn't mean the science behind it isn't correct.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  10. Alan Keyes by CustomDesigned · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At the other end of the political spectrum, I think Alan Keyes is at least in the same league at Obama as a gifted speaker.

  11. Please Sheeple by LS · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Does anyone actually believe this to be anything other than poor science or even worse election year propaganda masking as science?

    There may be some objective simple definition of "spin" that you could use to create a automated measuring system, but is this really spin?

    Human language is virtually infinitely complex, and there are layers of meaning both conscious and unconscious expressed by body language, tone, cadence, content, etc. Then there's the intention of the speaker, and the context of the speech. But no, we get a elementary school level simple bar chart that clearly shows that obama is a complete spinster, and McCain is a "straight talker". Excuse me, but what a load of horse shit! Disclaimer: I'm not voting for Obama or McCain.

    LS

    --
    There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
  12. Badarticle by pcgabe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I initially thought that the Obama-smear was just a poorly written summary (and was going to tag "badsummary") but the actual article itself is slanted. I propose we start tagging these kinds of things "badarticle", since they seem to be cropping up more and more on Slashdot.

    Anyway.

    There are so many things that bug me about this "article", let's just go through it together.

    The expression of disgust on former US president Bill Clinton's face during his speech to the Democratic National Convention as he says "Obama" lasts for just a fraction of a second.

    First off, associating disgust with Obama. Paul Ekman says he saw it on Clinton's face. Did any of the other millions of people watching see it?

    So how are we to know when they are lying?

    Got it, spin = lying. OK. That's the definition we'll be using as we read.

    Software programs that analyse a person's speech, voice or facial expressions are building upon the work of researchers like Ekman to help us discover when the truth is being stretched, and even by how much.

    Again, spin = lying. I'm with you so far.

    The algorithm counts usage of first person nouns - "I" tends to indicate less spin than "we", for example. It also searches out phrases that offer qualifications or clarifications of more general statements, since speeches that contain few such amendments tend to be high on spin. Finally, increased rates of action verbs such as "go" and "going", and negatively charged words, such as "hate" and "enemy", also indicate greater levels of spin.

    I... what? "I" vs "we"? What does that have to do with lying? I thought spin = lying, since that's stated twice at the beginning of the article. Suddenly spin = rhetoric.

    In general though, Obama's speeches contain considerably higher spin than either McCain or Clinton.

    First, spin = lying, and then spin = rhetoric, but we don't call it that, and then Obama's speeches have the most spin. Which by the new definition means that he is the most effective speaker, but by the original definition means that he is the biggest liar.

    McCain is the purported to have the least spin, implying that he is the most truthful (except by their definition of spin, it really means he is the least effective speaker). Hands up, who thinks McCain is the most truthful candidate?

    And hey, let's talk about Jeremiah Wright some more, because it's not like that story is history or anything. But hey, any chance there is to remind people that he's associated with Obama...

    "When you see these crises come along, the spin goes up," Skillicorn says. "Obama is very good at using stirring rhetoric to deal with the issues."

    Ah! Now they even call it rhetoric! Perhaps hoping that the intended audience doesn't know the meaning of the word? (Many people mistakenly think the word rhetoric has negative connotations.)

    Indeed, Bill Clinton's fleeting facial slip was the only clear example that Ekman could recount of a politician saying something that they did not mean during both the Republican and Democratic national conventions.

    Seriously, did anyone else besides Ekman see it? Did this facial slip actually exist? Where's the screencap?

    This entire article is ridiculous. Decrying "spin", they use it themselves as an anti-Obama device. Absurd.

    --
    Don't put advice in your sig.
  13. Skillicorn's blog by semiotec · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://skillicorn.wordpress.com/

    check out this entry:
    http://skillicorn.wordpress.com/2008/09/05/comparing-the-democratic-and-republican-convention-spin/

    As usual, high spin is indicated by the red end of the line. Here are the spin scores for all of the speeches analyzed (positive numbers are high spin):

    1. Bush 0.40
    2. Thompson 1.71
    3. Lieberman -0.73
    4. Romney 4.36
    5. Huckabee -1.8
    6. Giuliani 2.97
    7. Palin -0.62
    8. McCain -7.38
    9. M. Obama -1.24
    10. Hillary Clinton 2.43
    11. Bill Clinton 0.99
    12. Biden -1.35
    13. Obama 0.31

    seems like a bit of discrepancy with what's reported in the article.

  14. Re:So what's new by Digital+End · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yeah, because McCain's still doing that 'straight shooter' nonsense.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080913/pl_politico/13412

    Oh... wait... he found it wasn't working so now he's a cut-throat asshole just like the rest of them who will lie at the drop of a hat?

    Of course you'll read this and say "Well he's keeping things even" and frankly I don't give a damn anymore, I'm tired of it all and no one changes anyone elses opinion, vote for whoever you want... just don't get your facts backwards

    --
    Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master.
  15. I wonder if the software can.. by timias1 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    identify people who will either praise the results, or condemn them based on perceived political bias in the report, and their own personal political choices. Personally after reading the article, I didn't find favoritism towards McCain or Obama. Political spin levels don't directly suggest honesty, or dishonesty in my opinion. There is a great statement: "If you want to learn someones true character, don't listen to what they say, watch what they do"

    Voting record, more than written and declared policies should be the litmus test voters should use.