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Apple Bans iPhone App For Competing With Mail.app

recoiledsnake writes "Another submission has been rejected from the iPhone App Store, this time for 'duplicating the functionality of the iPhone Mail application.' The author claims that his application allows the user to log into their multiple web email accounts and that Apple seems to be confusing Gmail and Mail.app. This comes on the heels of Apple rejecting an application for competing with iTunes and rejecting other silly but harmless apps as being of 'limited utility.'" ComputerWorld has an update to the rejected Podcaster app mentioned above. It seems the developer has used Apple's "Ad Hoc" service to begin distributing the software despite the fact that they blocked it from the App Store.

21 of 464 comments (clear)

  1. iphone is a police state by Eravnrekaree · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Iphone is an orwellian police state where everything you do on it is carefully censored and controlled by Apple. Certainly i would never use one. I wish Google or someone would come out with a phone which is based on a completely open OS like Linux and where people can write their own programs and so on for it. People often fear government as a threat to their freedom, but right here we see with Apple, an obvious violation of peoples rights to use a device that they purchased in a way they wish, and a corporation deciding what people can and cant use it for. This leads in fact to stagnation, a lack of innovation. Many interesting developments and innovations come from innovation and improving and tinkering with an existing platform. A platform that allows a person to develop software provides excellent conditions for new innovations, like new games or mail apps to be developed.

    1. Re:iphone is a police state by David+Gerard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's a general-purpose computer that's been DRM-infected to hell.

      It's what Trusted Computing would actually be like: capricious, arbitrary and overpriced.

      --
      http://rocknerd.co.uk
    2. Re:iphone is a police state by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just what is expected of Apple fans: Denial. Obviously the iPhone isn't a police state. For one, it isn't a state. That should make it clear that you're looking at an analogy. The programs are the people of that "state", and they are indeed censored and controlled by Apple.

      Unfortunately the central authority model is on the rise everywhere: Even Mozilla has its one stop shop which is tightly integrated into Mozilla's products and where developers are at the mercy of the admins (without the DRM though).

    3. Re:iphone is a police state by whisper_jeff · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, here's a more complete reply to your post.

      The Iphone...

      iPhone. See my earlier post.

      ... is an orwellian police state where everything you do on it is carefully censored and controlled by Apple.

      Melodramatic much?

      Certainly i would never use one.

      You and millions of other people. Some for the same reason and others for a variety of other reasons. That's just the market exercising their right to choose. Congrats.

      I wish Google or someone would come out with a phone which is based on a completely open OS like Linux and where people can write their own programs and so on for it.

      You must be new here. Android. Look it up.

      People often fear government as a threat to their freedom, but right here we see with Apple, an obvious violation of peoples rights to use a device that they purchased in a way they wish, and a corporation deciding what people can and cant use it for.

      Ok, first, comparing Apple's controlling what apps are available for use on the iPhone with governments infringing people's freedoms? Seriously? I don't know if "melodramatic much" is adequate for that...

      Second, iPhone purchasers can use the device however they want. They don't need to follow Apple's path. Just this week, iirc, it was announced that 2.1 was hacked allowing iPhone owners to install whatever apps they want. And when the next iPhone OS comes out, within a week or two, it'll be hacked as well. And so on and so on. iPhone owners can use the device however they want.

      This leads in fact to stagnation, a lack of innovation.

      Actually, the issue at hand is that the program in question mimicked Mail too closely without any notable differences. _THAT_ is stagnation and lack of innovation and it has nothing to do with Apple not approving applications. Had the app in question been a mail program with features that differentiated it from Mail, it surely would have been approved. But more on this later.

      Many interesting developments and innovations come from innovation and improving and tinkering with an existing platform.

      You mean like the efforts of the iPhone hacking team (sorry, I don't know if the team has an official name)? You mean like the efforts of the many, many, many iPhone app developers who have made some truly excellent apps already (check out Trism as but one example of a spectacular and innovative app that takes full use of the iPhone's abilities). Interesting developments and innovations surround the iPhone. And more will come as people push the limits of it's capabilities.

      A platform that allows a person to develop software provides excellent conditions for new innovations, like new games or mail apps to be developed.

      Um, people can develop apps for the iPhone. Apple doesn't need to approve all those apps (as they make clear in their documentation for developers), but people can develop apps for the device. There are already plenty of apps on the iPhone. Over a million have been downloaded already. Your point is a non-issue.

      It sounds like the app was not approved because it was basically a carbon copy of Mail - same functions with no additional, differentiating features. So, if they approved it, people would buy the app, download it, realize they got duped into buying something that comes with the iPhone OS, get pissed and complain - the later two being things Apple wants to avoid. Rather than go that route, they did not approve the app. Had the developer actually developed something - spent some time and effort adding additional features that made the app different (and probably better) than Mail - Apple almost certainly would have approved it.

      How posts like yours get modded up are beyond me. Melodramatic drivel alongside false information. Normally Slashdot reviewers get it right but sometimes they just miss the boat...

    4. Re:iphone is a police state by mrsteveman1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And yet I can still slam Apple on online forums and while phoning friends while using an iPhone.

      Except for Apples forums, they can't handle criticism even if its just an attempt to resolve a problem.

    5. Re:iphone is a police state by erroneus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know, while I resent and dislike this scenario for all the same reasons most people here do, I have to think about this from the other side of it. My CEO loves his MacBook pro. He loves it so much, last year, he got Macs for the whole family and bought every Apple device to support it -- airports and the like -- and went full-bore Apple at home and didn't look back. It was total commitment. It was part experiment and part disgust and frustration with the misery that Windows brings.

      Apple works to keep confusion out of the Apple world. They do this by controlling the environment carefully. It is imperfect in areas; faults and holes are found and closed. And it is speculative to say that Apple excludes things for anti-competitive reasons, but it is unquestionable that they do work to control the environment. But for many people, the results of this provides exactly the experience people are seeking out of Apple.

      And I think the fact that Apple's philosophy exists in the form it does is useful if for no reason than to observe the practices and the results they yield.

      Apple isn't in 100% control though. Apple HAS to allow Microsoft to behave like assholes in their world. By that, I am specifically talking about the difficulty of setting up Entourage to connect to a Microsoft Exchange server using SSL without getting the invalid certificate error. It's a Microsoft app and a Microsoft server. You'd think they would be able to get it right but for whatever reason, Microsoft hasn't fixed it. If Apple had their way, they would exclude Microsoft entirely from their environment... it just wouldn't be a wise business decision. Microsoft applies other limitations and broken behaviors in its products for Apple as well. This is not something that Apple easily tolerates... but they will from Microsoft and probably from Adobe as well.

      Other opinions aside, I find it interesting to observe the various dynamics surrounding Apple's philosophies applied.

    6. Re:iphone is a police state by ScrewMaster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unfortunately the central authority model is on the rise everywhere:

      It's the mainframe mentality expressed on a global level. And yes, it's unnerving, particularly for someone like me who was there thirty-odd years ago when the personal computer was born, and has long since been accustomed to doing whatever the hell I want with my systems.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    7. Re:iphone is a police state by novakreo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When was a device built by Apple a democratic system?

      Oh I don't know, the entire Mac range?
      I can run any software I please on my MacBook Pro, even format and install Windows or Linux if I want. On an iPhone, I can only run Apple-approved software, unless the phone is jailbroken.

      24 years after their iconic '1984' ad, Apple look like hypocrites with their complete about-face on the iPhone.

      --
      O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
    8. Re:iphone is a police state by TheSpoom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, your examples are not DRM.

      Your examples restrict the permissions of a service, or of closed information.

      DRM is an attempt to restrict permissions of software or information on the system of a user who otherwise has complete control because it's their system.

      To give an analogy, permissions restrict normal users because normal users don't have an expectation of control. DRM attempts to restrict root.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    9. Re:iphone is a police state by Dlugar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I didn't mod you troll, but I do think you're full of it.

      Look at the term. Passwords are a form of DRM. CHMOD is a form of DRM.

      No, they are not. DRM is when you give the key and the content to someone, and expect them to only be able to view that content under certain circumstances.

      If I password-protect something, then I have two choices: (a) give you the password, (b) don't give you the password. If (a), you can't access the content at all. If (b), you can do anything with the content you want. Period. DRM is the foolish attempt to do both.

      If a chmod a file, I have two choices: (a) give you read access, (b) don't give you read access. If (a), you can do anything with that content you want. You can read it, you can copy it, you can run it on another machine, whatever. If (b), you can't do anything with the content. You can't read it, you can't copy it, you can't run it on another machine. Again, DRM is the idea that you can have your cake and eat it too.

      I am aware that this next statement might seem like trolling but I've been wanting to ask/say it for a while now.

      Go ask all those people who claim that information wants to be free what their social security number is if they have one and, if they don't, then ask for their local equivalent.

      This is either trolling or completely misunderstanding the issue. I will be generous and assume the latter.

      This falls perfectly in line with the other two categories above. I have two choices with my SSN: (a) I can tell you what it is, (b) I can keep it secret from you. If (a), you have full access to my SSN and can copy it, tell others about it, post it on the interwebs, etc. If (b), then you can't do anything with it, you can't copy it, you can't use it to screw over my credit rating, etc. DRM is the idea that you can, given enough technology, tell someone what your SSN is and, at the same time, prevent them from doing anything bad with it. I hope it is obvious to you why this is impossible.

      You might think that DRM would be a good thing in some cases if it were technologically feasible, such as being able to give people your SSN and ensuring that they can't do anything bad with it. But DRM is not anything like passwords or chmod or "normal" access restrictions that do not give people access to the content and then expect to control it.

      Dlugar

      --
      Computer Go: Writing Software to Play the Ancient Game of Go
    10. Re:iphone is a police state by shinma · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because Microsoft uses its monopoly to destroy other options and force you into a position where their choice is the only choice. That's what the embrace and extend philosophy is all about.

      In the iPhone's case, you're perfectly able to buy a different phone that does not have these restrictions. In fact, it's easier to buy another phone, because the iPhone is only available for one carrier, ostensibly. (Mine's jailbroken, and over on T-Mobile, but I knew what I was getting into when I got it.)

      Should Apple be banning apps like this mail program or the podcasting app? No, I don't think so. Can they? Yes, at their peril. They have the opportunity to choose whether they want to discourage serious developers and users, and the punishment for their crime will quite appropriately be levied against their bottom line and marketshare, if they continue on this road.

      --
      Shinma
  2. "Duplicating functionality" by mrbah · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Isn't duplicating functionality the basis for competition? The 45 different flashlight applications don't exactly support the claim that duplicate functionality is why these applications were rejected.

    Seems to me like they're trying to reserve the right to develop their own alternative to any application on the store and pull the third party version. Don't you just love closed platforms?

  3. It's time to face a simple fact about the iPhone by MikeRT · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's a waste of investment. It's just that simple. The moment Apple wants to do something you're doing, they just get rid of you. No serious business should ever invest money into the iPhone because they are completely at the mercy of Apple here, in a way that makes Microsoft look like they're selling an open source platform.

  4. Re:Why should Apple open up? by gaderael · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's Microsoft's platform, Microsoft's SDK, and Microsoft's store. Why should they allow any product on the shelf that competes with their own business? Why should they allow useless products? You don't get mad at Best Buy for not selling maps to Circuit City. You don't get mad at Circuit City for not selling empty cardboard boxes for $999. Why should Microsoft's store be any different?

    Sound's pretty silly now, doesn't it?

    --
    Anyone got a light for my sig?
  5. Re:Why should Apple open up? by David+Gerard · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because it's pissing people off in a way that's bad PR, firstly to the developers and secondly to the users. There's a reason why so many of the latter have jail-broken their iPhones - Trusted Computing sucks to be bent over for.

    --
    http://rocknerd.co.uk
  6. Re:Why should Apple open up? by Karlt1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's Apple's platform, Apple's SDK, and Apple's store. Why should they allow any product on the shelf that competes with their own business? Why should they allow useless products? You don't get mad at Best Buy for not selling maps to Circuit City. You don't get mad at Circuit City for not selling empty cardboard boxes for $999. Why should Apple's store be any different?

    I am an Apple fan to the highest degree, but this has to be the stupidest analogy I've ever heard. It's one thing for Apple to ban apps that violate privacy, harm the network, or even that go against AT&T's TOS (like the tethering app). But to ban an app that competes with Apple's free included apps? If Best Buy won't sell your software, you can always try getting Circuit City to sell it or if that doesn't work, sell it from your own site and pay for advertising. If Apple won't sell your app on the App Store, you have no alternative. I have a regular old Samsung flip phone on the Sprint network. The included web browser sucks. I went over to Operamini.com. downloaded it, and now I have a great browser. Apple would never allow a competing browser,

  7. They have no reason to change by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The average consumer just wants something simple that works and is secure and looks great. They don't care if they're making things worse for themselves. Just look at MS' monopoly. People love it.

    By closing the system up it's more secure and they can guarentee their software remains popular on their system.

    1. Re:They have no reason to change by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No. This is pure profit motive, that's all.

      And how much profit does Apple make on Mail.app?

      If Apple allowed a competing mail app, this would encourage more people to buy the iPhone (more money for Apple), and I'm sure they get a cut of sales through the App Store (even more money for Apple).

      No one has built an effective Mail client for Mac OS X.

      Thunderbird isn't effective?

      No one has built a good replacement for ANY of the Mac OS X's system tools, BECAUSE Apple closes their system effectively.

      Or maybe because there's really not a market for someone to duplicate the functionality of, say, Disk Utility. And there's really not a lot you can do on top of Disk Utility.

      True Microsoft is the T-Rex, but they don't compete in markets like system tools, mail clients, etc.

      WTF? Can it be you don't know about Outlook?

      Sure, they don't ban these other markets, but it's not as though they don't attempt to compete.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  8. Re:Why should Apple open up? by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why should Microsoft's store be any different?

    I can't think of any reason other than Microsoft is a monopoly, and users have next to no choice but to use Windows for many purposes. However, if you're talking about Windows Mobile, or some other MS platform that isn't a monopoly, then it really doesn't sound as silly as you might think it does.

    --
    You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  9. Re:It's time to face a simple fact about the iPhon by stg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think it was fairly clear that the grandparent was talking about developing software for the iPhone, not just using one. And I agree completely with his points. Of course, any company can develop a free program that duplicates yours, but being able to ban your software from the only place you can sell it is much worse. Even as an user, I find their attitude unacceptable, and will not buy their stuff.

  10. Re:It's time to face a simple fact about the iPhon by rtfa-troll · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's a waste of investment. It's just that simple

    That makes no sense. Most iPhones actually do what they're supposed to do. They're not supposed to be an open platform. If that's what you want, get something else!

    the grandaprent obviously means that developing on the Iphone is a waste of investment. Most people do that kind of investment with a plan for a small reasonable return and a reasonable hope for great riches if their application happens to hit a sweet spot. With the iphone the situation is that, if you do hit that sweet spot, Apple can, and will just eliminate your application whilst introducing their own one. You end up doing free (or even profitable) R&D for Apple.

    Others have compared this with Windows, but actually it's very similar. Microsoft has shown a willingness to kill any partner which gets too big for it's boots by competing against them. E.g. look at Borland which was wiped out by microsoft's compiler suite; look at Netscape; look even at Oracle: they were only saved because they had other platforms. Even so Oracle is in a much worse position because of MSSql than it would be otherwise.

    --
    =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();