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Students Are Always Half Right In Pittsburgh

Posted by samzenpus on from the think-of-the-children dept.

Pittsburgh Public Schools officials have enacted a policy that sets 50 percent as the minimum score a student can receive for assignments, tests and other work. District spokeswoman Ebony Pugh said, the 50 percent minimum gives children a chance to catch up and a reason to keep trying. If a student gets a 20 percent in a class for the first marking period, he or she would need a 100 percent during the second marking period just to squeak through the semester. The district and teachers union issued a joint memo to ensure staff members' compliance with the policy, which was already on the books but enforced only at some schools. At this rate, it won't be long before schools institute double extra credit Mondays and Fridays to ensure students don't take three day weekends.

29 of 881 comments (clear)

  1. Or more reasonable policies by Helios1182 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Or they could work on policies that reward significant improvement throughout the year. A rough start can be just that. Mandating that everything is at least 50%, even when a student gets a 0%, is a terrible idea.

    1. Re:Or more reasonable policies by tekiegreg · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Really, I have no problem with a "lousy start" policy of some sort, but to guarantee 50% while other students are giving and earning 100% annoys me to no end. How about simply this, guarantee that all quizzes and tests can be made up after hours (before/after class) that were taken in the first half of the semester for a maximum score of 80% of the total points awarded (gotta at least give a small late bloomer penalty)? Higher of the 2 scores will apply. Thoughts there?

      --
      ...in bed
    2. Re:Or more reasonable policies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And maybe you should get exactly that? Seriously? Why the hell do bright students have to waste their time sitting on their ass while morons take all the teacher's attention?

      Starting from grade 8 or so, you should be able to challenge any course. If you know your stuff, then you know your stuff, and you could use your time to do something productive, like university prep, sports, or volunteering... Something that'd be much better for your life and career than wasting time with idiots.

    3. Re:Or more reasonable policies by maglor_83 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Lisa: I _have_ to join the team or I'll get an F that will haunt me for the rest of my life.

      [in the future, Lisa is being sworn in]

      Man: I now pronounce you President of these United --
      Reporter: Stop the inauguration! I just discovered our President Elect got an F in second grade gym class!

      [crows gasps; Lisa is handcuffed]

      Man: In that case I sentence you to a lifetime of horror on Monster Island. [to Lisa] Don't worry, it's just a name.

      [Lisa and others are chased by fire-breathing monsters]

      Lisa: He said it was just a name!
      Man: What he meant is that Monster Island is actually a peninsula.

    4. Re:Or more reasonable policies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Given the fact that one makes a successful career in America by gaming the sociopolitical system at work, I see nothing wrong with teaching kids how to game the system. Successfully manipulating through your environment to your own advantage is one of the most important skills a kid can learn to do good in life.

    5. Re:Or more reasonable policies by Surt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Given the fact that one makes a successful career in America by gaming the sociopolitical system at work, I see nothing wrong with teaching kids how to game the system. Successfully manipulating through your environment to your own advantage is one of the most important skills a kid can learn to do good in life.

      To do well in life. To do good in life, you need the opposite set of skills.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    6. Re:Or more reasonable policies by Kid+Zero · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you can slide by with a 50% for doing nothing, people will do exactly that.

    7. Re:Or more reasonable policies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I got out of them because I was *able to pass the tests* for all of them

      Did you pass them with your left hand, or your right?

    8. Re:Or more reasonable policies by D+Ninja · · Score: 5, Funny

      My HS had a BASIC programming class on a WANG.

      Sounds like someone's teacher is going to be in the news fairly soon...

    9. Re:Or more reasonable policies by ebuck · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Better yet. Make the grading percentile distribution more like:

      A - 100% - 81%
      B - 80% - 61%
      C - 60% - 41%
      D - 40% - 21%
      F - 20% - 0%

      At least then they will have coherency between letter grade and percentile of accomplishment. With their current distribution, they have no coherency because a student that performs 50% is equal to one that performs nothing.

      As far as the admitting colleges go, they will quickly draft their own plans to adjust for the new grading policy, probably relying even more so on the SAT and other measures to determine their admittance criteria. As far as the school is concerned they just doubled the number of "A" students, even if it was only done by lowering the bar for an A.

      If what they were suggesting was padding everyone's score by 50 percentage points, then it would be fair (if awkward). Instead what they are suggesting is padding the worst performer's score by 50 percentage points. In statistics, this would be called "cooking the books", and I'll bet they're cooking the books for more than just "a second chance, whenever the student tries to take it". I'll bet that the new point system is presented to performance boards as equal to those school systems that let a student hit dead bottom zero.

      If you want to provide a "second chance" to achieve, do what other institutions have done. Let the student take the course again, with the new grade replacing the old grade. It costs the student an elective and another four months of their life; that makes sure it won't be abused by the student body: time is precious. It maintains the current standard of the school because the course will likely be taught the same way.

      What they are doing is unconscionable from a statistics point of view; basically they are taking the numbers they don't like and changing them to 50. The "average" will likewise jump (even thought no corresponding jump in work will be performed). Kudos for them on learning how to lie with statistics. Shame on them for doing it by substituting undesirable values with those more palatable.

    10. Re:Or more reasonable policies by Nathan+Boley · · Score: 5, Funny

      My experience (as a teacher) is that effort doubles between grades. So a D is twice as much effort to get as an F

      Making the assumption that you can earn an F with 0 effort, and then following your logic...
      an F is 0 effort => a D is 0 effort => a C is 0 effort => a B is 0 effort => an A is zero effort.
      So you're an easy teacher. QED.

    11. Re:Or more reasonable policies by Macgrrl · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sitting listening to some idiot talk about something you already know is a valuable life skill that will stand you in good stead throughout your working life.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
    12. Re:Or more reasonable policies by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 5, Funny

      Even programming needs zero math skills.

      Pardon me, but... LOL WUT? Lady Ada and Messr's Babbage, Turing and Godel would like to talk to you before they beat you up and leave you for dead in a bad neighborhood.

    13. Re:Or more reasonable policies by BitZtream · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because he/she is smart enough to realize that grades matter exactly 0 after you get your first job anyway? Because he/she is smart enough to realize the field they intend to go into doesn't depend on having a A in math?

      There are plenty of reasons not to waste your time doing something and being 'good enough'. Thats why, although I can cook, I don't bake my own bread. I'm good enough at cooking for most of my needs and I have baked bread in the past, but I specialize in other things and let someone else make far better bread that I can buy for a price less than the cost of making it myself.

      But in reality, when I was in highschool, I did this exact same thing, IN honors classes. I did it because it was far more enjoyable for me to 'get by' and go half fun out side of school than it was to sit in some class listening to some teacher drone on about shit that he/she barely understands better than I do. I know its an odd concept, but kids are thinking about having fun and a social life, not their career. Well okay, the balanced kids are, there were kids who only cared about school work, had the best grades, all that stuff that makes you the most likely to be someone great. The valedictorian at my highschool went off to Yale, and returned less than a year later because she got knocked up by the first guy who looked at her. The salutatorian went to the University of Florida, only to be kicked out after the first semester because she became a total drunkard. They had absolutely flawless grades, but 0 social skills which resulted in the not lasting the first year, now last I heard they both live back in the town we grew up in, with several kids and basic, meaningless jobs. Theres more to succeeding in life than school.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  2. I KNEW IT!! by Eggplant62 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'M SURROUNDED BY ASSHOLES!!!

    Yep, the Idiocracy is well on its way to becoming a reality. Let's not grade on a child's actual performance in school, let's make certain they can at least "catch up." Yep, way to go. This mollycoddle society just irks the living shit outta me.

    1. Re:I KNEW IT!! by maxume · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The solution to kids falling behind is to de-emphasize social promotion, not to give them more chances to keep up.

      Also, I'm pretty sure that making it harder to fail is pretty much exactly the same thing as making it easier to pass.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:I KNEW IT!! by Firehed · · Score: 5, Insightful

      With rare exceptions, most kids who are going to get less than a 50% on something are never going to get the grades in the second semester that will give them a passing grade.

      Most students who get less than a 50% don't deserve a passing grade. A for effort is bullshit - if you don't know the material, you shouldn't pass the class.

      Maybe it'll help a few people who got a rough start. It'll also allow anyone of even moderate intelligence to coast right through every class. This mentality of doing something that helps a few while creating a massive loophole for everyone else (see: no child left behind) serves no purpose but to accelerate the growth of stupidity. It certainly wouldn't be much of a stretch to call it a government conspiracy (as an educated populace is far harder to swindle and control), especially given what else we've seen happen as a result of this administration.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
  3. Great Life Lesson by clang_jangle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    District spokeswoman Ebony Pugh said, the 50 percent minimum gives children a chance to catch up and a reason to keep trying.

    Yes of course, and while we're at it, let's make it the law that everyone gets at least $50k/year, whether they actually work or not. That way we all get a "chance to catch up" and a "reason to keep trying".

    --
    Caveat Utilitor
    1. Re:Great Life Lesson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      All I can think of is the rant Pixar inserted in to the Incredibles between the parents. Praising mediocrity and condemning truly exceptional people in the process is exactly how this country has gotten as fucked up as it is.

      Brilliant minds are not needed for success! Don't worry! You can be amazing without ANY reason! Just because you were born in the USA, you have the not only the right, but the ENTITLEMENT to be rich, successful, and pampered!

  4. There isn't a teacher alive by Troy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If a student gets a 20 percent in a class for the first marking period, he or she would need a 100 percent during the second marking period just to squeak through the semester.

    There isn't a teacher out there who wouldn't pull the 20% kid aside and say "Look. You bombed. But, over next quarter/semester, if you do all/most of your homework and manage to get a C/B/whatever, I'll pass you."

    My school district is looking at a similar policy, and I'm not happy with it. I don't mind putting a "floor" under students in freefall (especially when there are out-of-school forces in play), but its something that you do on a case-by-case basis according to the needs of the student.

    If a district's teachers are not looking out for their kids this way, you have a deeper problem than a grading policy.

    1. Re:There isn't a teacher alive by globaljustin · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If a district's teachers are not looking out for their kids this way, you have a deeper problem than a grading policy

      Yes, I think this indicates a teacher problem more than a school policy problem.

      If bad teachers are the problem, then good teachers are the solution, however, so many bungled ideas about how to attract quality professionals to education have made it impossible to attract quality applicants in many, many districts across the country (here in Indiana it's worse than the national trend)

      If you want quality professional teachers who know when to "pull a kid aside" and give them some targeted help to pass a class, then you have TO PAY THEM.

      Why would a quality teacher leave the serenity of the university town they lived in for school and go to some backwards dysfunctional derelict school district for half the pay as they could get at a functioning district?

      The only solution is to have a national teacher's minimum wage, subsidized by the Fed. Gov't if necessary (some red states would rather pardon child murderers than raise teacher salaries).

      Anyone who disagrees needs to think hard about what teachers are asked to do in today's america. They are expected to do so much but paid like unionized factory workers.

      $50,000 is a good starting figure. You could pay for it by ditching NCLB and all the wasteful bureaucracy that it created.

      Fed, state, and local gov't wastes millions on ineffective programs that try to do systematically what a good teacher will do intuitively.

      For the record, IANAT...I used to be until I realized I was carrying the burden of absent parents and ignorant policy makers.

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
  5. Re:Good Preparation by bsDaemon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well, if the student only got 3/10 correct, I wouldn't worry about them figuring out that their grade is off in any measurable way.

  6. Grading system is broken. by arcade · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This indicates a broken grading system with a bad kludge of a hack on top.

    If someone gets 5% at first half, and then majorly improves during the second half and gets 80% - and would easily be able to redo the tests of the first half and get 80% on them too at this time -- then of course the final grade should be around 80% - and the first grading should be ignored completely.

    It's the actual knowledge at the end of the semester that should be graded - not the performance throughout the year. It's the knowledge one possesses at the end that is important.

    Bleh.

    Broken sysem with a bad hack .

    --
    "Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
  7. Oblig by AaxelB · · Score: 5, Funny

    Calvin and Hobbes

  8. I know, don't be a lazy teacher by nick_davison · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, the problem is the teachers can only be bothered to test twice per class... Meaning a student getting 20% on the first test has to get 100% on the second to get a 60% average.

    As a radical suggestion, somewhere in the long summer vacations, after the 2pm finishes... Get off your lazy asses and come up with say ten tests throughout the course.

    Now a 20% on the first test only knocks 8% off the total grade, not 40%, and is quite surmountable without needing pity grades.

    I realize this is clearly advanced rocket science so take your time to fully digest the idea. I'm freely offering it for the good of ull duh stoodnts in pitsbug.

    Let's try not to make their being even stupider any more acceptable. One of these kids could end up becoming president one day and the last thing we need is a moron spending eight years in the whitehouse, driving the country, its military and its economy in to the ground. Let's keep that an unthinkable impossibility people!

  9. Negative Infinity by TejWC · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There is one course that I took that made us write down not only our answers in the test, but also our certainty for our answer. The scoring was a logarithmic scale such that if you say you are 100% sure of an answer but get it wrong, you get Negative Infinity for that question and you end up failing the class. Oddly enough, this course was in CMU at Pittsburgh.

  10. Re:Good Preparation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    You can't spell nochildleftbehind without "idle".

  11. I would have skipped everything and passed. by Jason+Pollock · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Has anyone thought of what this actually means? Mathematically?

    For example, let's say there are 5 assignments and 2 tests. The tests are worth 25% of your final mark.
    The assignments are worth 10% each.

    Additionally, let's go with the ABCDE scheme, and the student needs a 60% to pass with a D.

    What's the minimum mathematical grade needed to pass?

    First the tests: 0% on either test.

    We've now got 25% on the course.

    Then the assignments:

    3 assignments: 0%

    We've now got 40% on the course.

    2 assignments: 100%

    We've now got our 60%, D grade for the course.

    That means even though the student received a mathematical 20% when their entire coursework is taken into account, they would receive a D.

    That is definite grade inflation.

    Based on my behaviour in high school, I would have most definitely gotten 100% on the first two assignments, and then skipped the rest of the term, walking out with my 60%. Would I have known the material? Definitely not. Would I have known 60% of the material? Definitely not.

  12. Great life lesson by MasterC · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This teaches a great life lesson and ethic. Let's see how well it carries over into the working world!

    Not leaving the struggling behind is noble and all, but when the rope pulling up the strugglers is tied around the neck of the non-strugglers the nobility ends and the entire system is degraded.

    If you blow off a test you damn well deserve a zero. If you don't turn in homework then you damn well deserve a zero.

    If you just. can't. get. chemistry then the teacher should be willing and have latitude to help you.

    Why should someone who works their ass off for a 55% be completely marginalized by someone who skipped class to get 50%?

    Government intervention in the housing market has royally screwed things up. School administration intervention into teaching will royally screw things up. In both cases we lose as a whole.

    --
    :wq