Is Open Source Different In Europe Than In the US?

An anonymous reader writes "The first Europe Open Source Think Tank just concluded and Larry Augustin posted some interesting observations on open source in Europe versus the US. Essentially, he says that users in Europe care more about the open source nature of a product than do US users. US users are just trying to save a buck while European users actually care about access to the source code. Do Slashdot readers observe the same thing? Are the reasons for using open source software different in other parts of the world as well?"

Comments

For shame

[illuminum]

Are we Americans really this stupid on this many levels?

Re:For shame

[johannesg]

Primary reason for adopting Open Source:
-(Europe) Avoid vendor lock-in.
-(US) Cost.

...because let's be brutally honest here: the US cares less about sending money to Redmond, Seattle than Europe does. For Europe it means a loss of value on the continent, but for the US the money stays 'at home', and contributes to local jobs, taxes, etc.

So yes, Europe cares about Open Source in a different way than the US. It might very well be the only way that serious software development in Europe can compete with the US...

Re:For shame

[Dragonslicer]

Also, in the US, companies are more interested in reliability

You misspelled "liability".

Re:For shame

[Anonymous Coward]

A loss of money to the continent? Who the hell thinks of Europe as a single financial entity. Where the money is going is the last thing that anyone ever thinks about.

Re:For shame

[somersault]

Your first paragraph makes no sense. If it were true, then things would be the other way round - Europe would be worried a lot more about the cost of software than vendor lock in. As it is, if this article is correct it means that Americans don't care about feeding money into their economy, they only want stuff to be free and don't care as much if there is vendor lock-in. While Europeans are happy to pay money to American companies as long as it means they have a choice.

It's also pretty funny that you somehow think American software is magically superior to any equivalent software coded in Europe, unless that software is open source? Games perhaps aren't "serious software" but they tend to require more serious coding skills than developing other commercial client-side software, and there are plenty of talented European and Asian development houses. I don't know a lot of commercial office software, but how about SAGE?

Sure, most big software houses have their headquarters in the US, and Europe is the home of Linux and a lot of good open source apps. But look back again at your quote, and you could see that is because the US cares about money, and Europe cares about encouraging innovation and giving people good products. It is not necessarily because Europeans somehow can't code good code unless they are doing it for free.

Re:For shame

[sickboy1969c]

In America we call that Lazy, Elitists, who do not contribute positive to the overall society. (there is more to the world then just source code)

Your hardworking, salt of the earth capitalists have really contributed a lot of positive things to your society. Hmmm, USD 10 billion a day in Iraq or USD 700 billion to bail out Wall St etc but not a dime for affordale socialised medicine... give me lazy elitism any day!

Re:For shame

[m.ducharme]

Sorry, but it's not elitist for the middle class to be paid fair value for their work, and to be able to enjoy the fruits of their own labours.
This idea that your primary function in society is to make other people richer (because this is what you're doing when you work harder for the same pay) is distinctly North American. Europeans don't look down on us because they think we're inherently inferior, they look down on us because we go around with "sucker" written on our heads, and let a small, elite minority take advantage of us.

Re:For shame

[ZTiger]

I'd agree that most American's are workaholics. I work for a multinational company and our IT guy that does site installations always comments on how he rushes to get through an installation while the Euro guys are looking at him like he is crazy because he will stay at work 12 hours while he is there. We have a good laugh when he went to Spain and they were gone for 2 hours in the afternoon and came back with alcohol on their breath. I wonder how a 24x7 IT shop that has business critical systems compares between America and Europe?

Re:For shame

[Anonymous Coward]

true. but they're for sure not elite nor, i'm afraid, are they a minority...for me, as an european, it is really scary to watch the u.s. drifting into some kind of dark age. not that i'm not aware of the fact that it always worked like that, but now it's no scandal anymore if guys like bush and cheney are at power. pretty scary vultures if you ask me. not that it'd be all roses in europe, but we not into war at the moment. nobody (besides some weapon industry lobbyists maybe) beliefs here in the benefits of militant actions. a true mess you're into now. i hope you manage somehow to reinvent your ideals - independence and freedom not oppression. the hole case, by the way, reminds me of rome. a nation which could just bear it's inner tensions through a steady militant expansion, but i guess these times are gone forever.

Re:For shame

[Hurricane78]

It's very impressive, how your leaders brainwashed you into confusing lazyness with the freedom of leisure instead of being a slave of a company, and seeing elitism (like in, being the best) as something bad.

Well... It's your life. If you want to be a Joe Slave, so be it.
But as soon as those that take advantage of you in this way endanger us too, you're putting me in danger by supporting them. And that's where I have a problem with you.
Luckily I see it as the best, to help you, instead of punishing you.

Primary vs Secondary

[Archangel Michael]

I use Open Source for two reasons ....

I like Open Source ideals (free, as in speech)
I like Open Source results (free as in beer)

I also live in the US, so please categorize me correctly in the "save money" column, until I move to Europe, when you should categorize me in the other column.

This isn't an XOR problem, so who cares which is "more important", especially when the result for using Open Source is the same either way?

Re:Primary vs Secondary

[Otter]

For me, the biggest benefit is avoiding license hassles. Saving money and "yuo have teh sorce code so fix it yuorself" are both great also, but take a back seat to being able to just stick an install CD into another machine without having to worry about licensing.

Re:Primary vs Secondary

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, and also if you want to try new software it makes it much easier. Simply download it and go ahead. No need to worry whether you have some restricted trial version. And if you decide to use it, you don't need to care about getting the paperwork done for getting the money (which might not apply widely, but where I am this is a big hassle, and from "Hey we should use it" to "Hey the package has been delivered" usually 3 months pass by).

Re:Primary vs Secondary

[Archangel Michael]

"There is nothing inherent to open source that guarantees that it will cost less to buy than proprietary code"

This is 100% false. Even if the proprietary code supplier gives code away, the support costs are set by the proprietary source vendor, not by open market. With Open Source, one can change support vendors or even grow your own support at any time. Vendor lockin is a cost, even if the actual cost is less up front, it rarely is long term.

And that is just for Source Code support. Now, lets talk about data lockin and now we're really adding to the long term costs.

I currently manage a system that has YEARS of data locked in a proprietary format, and the software just plain sucks. But there is no easy (ie "cheap") way to move to another vendor at this point. So, we are stuck, until it becomes too painful to live with.

I'd be curious about this.

[filesiteguy]

I (a Californian) use OSS at home and at work simply because it is better than most of the closed-source offerings. I also prefer open source so that I know what is running the application, or at least know more than a few eyes are looking through it. I feel it is more secure that way.

I'd be happy to pay for OSS if needed. I do pay for my openSUSE versions and Crossover Office.

If it's mission critical...

[torsner]

I collegue of mine with an excellent track record as IT and R&D manager in the European Call Center industry once said (and I agree):

- "if the application is mission critical, then we need the source"

Eh, I agree

[gravis777]

I think that in the US, the mass population that is, NOT the IT crowd, likes Open Source because they are trying to save money. The perfect example of this is Open Office. Let me tell you, my mom, pastor, sister, and my best friend all could care less if they had access to the source code. I would be shocked if a single one of them could program "Hello World". However, they LOVE the thought of not shelling out a couple of Hundred bucks to Microsoft. Not because they hate Microsoft, but because they want to save money. The sister I mentioned earlier also just graduated graphic arts school, and is a Gimp user, not because she has access to the source code or anything like that, but because it is free.

I pieced together a few computers for a church before, and we went Linux with Open Office, once again, because its free.

None of these were because they thought Linux, Open Office, or Gimp were better, in fact, all of these people would have prefered the pay program. People like free. People will do stupid stuff to get stuff for free. You know how many users I had to remove spyware and viruses from because they tried installing free 3D or Living Screensavers, 1000 free smilies at smily central, or animated coursers? In fact, I have tons of friend's myspace pages that I refuse to goto until they clean up their code and get rid of all those evil ActiveX and JavaScript controls.

You ought too see how many people will drive 30-45 miles across town to save 20 cents a gallon on gas. I point and laugh at those people.

Yet, not a single one of these people mind paying $18 for a pizza, $24.95 a month for dialup, or $120 a month for their cable bill.

Holy FUD Batman!

[Facetious]

I make it a point to ignore Anonymous Cowards, but holy crap! That is one of the most blatantly false pieces of FUD I've seen in some time. To wit:

you DO get vendor lock-in with FOSS, because you can't use anything EXCEPT FOSS.

That's an oldie but a goodie and completely untrue. It hails back to some really ancient anti-GPL FUD (think Bill Gates and "viral" licensing).

in the US, companies are more interested in reliability- hence why they will BUY commercial software when there are "free" alternatives.

It couldn't have anything to do with the power of marketing over the simple minds of PHBs? Or the FUDspinners like you? Or ignorance of FOSS alternatives?

ask any company about the nightmare of going from OpenSQL to a real SQL database. Not only is it insanely difficult, but the FOSS alternative is vastly inferior.

What the hell is OpenSQL? Is it a fork of MySQL or PostgreSQL? And surely by "real SQL" you don't mean MS's pitiful SQL Server?

But hey, if you'd rather have source code than a product which works well, more power to ya. Most people just don't consider work time to be play time, that's all I'm sayin'.

You assume FOSS doesn't work well. It works great, thank you very much. Most people consider putting well built, peer reviewed software in place a huge time and money saver, but if you prefer to wait on hold for tech support for your favorite piece of payware, more power to ya'.

I know, I know. Don't feed the trolls.

how is FOSS "free, as in speech"?

[pbhj]

What does OSS have to do with "free, as in speech". OSS is not about avoiding government censorship (is it?) it's free /libre/, free to use and abuse, free to modify, free to alter and adapt, free to better for your needs or those of others ... I don't see how that has anything to do with "free, as in speech"?

I'm guessing that in Europe people like FOSS because it's free-libre and free-gratis, whilst in America the populous doesn't know what "libre" means [oh God I hope I spelt it right!] and so make some weird analogy with free speech that misses the mark entirely. Surely "free, as in speech" would be for warez that can't be sold legally but can be given away due to some loophole?

But I'm open to being wrong.

Seriously though can't we just all agree to use libre and gratis?

[Ya, probably flamebait, but everyone loves a barbecue, right?!]

Re:Say what?

[erroneus]

...and some people have a problem with understanding what a generalization is... which, once again, appears to point to another common U.S. American failing -- the notion that it is all about "me" somehow.

The 80's was probably one of the most damaging eras for the U.S. where culture and society are concerned. "Looking out for number one" is a ridiculously selfish notion that has resulted in making "everyone else" a competitor or even an enemy of sorts.

There are indeed a lot of people who do not neatly fall into the category I describe. But, the masses are what I speak... the masses to which that marketers very successfully appeal.