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Windows 7 Trades Email and Photo Apps For Downloadable Ones

Posted by timothy on from the unlike-those-bundlers-at-canonical-red-hat-etc dept.

arcticstoat writes "Microsoft has said that it plans to remove a lot of the standard apps from Windows 7 in order to make the new OS 'cleaner.' Among the apps for the chop are Windows Mail, Windows Photo Gallery and Windows Movie Maker, which will no longer be included with the operating system as standard. Instead, equivalent versions of the apps will be available from Microsoft's Windows Live download service as optional free downloads, much like the new BETA versions of the apps that Windows Live offers today." Meanwhile, jammag writes that "tech pundit Mike Elgan posits that the rushed-to-market Windows 7 — due in 2010, now being beta released this October — may in fact merely be Vista with new packaging.

24 of 496 comments (clear)

  1. While this may not please some... by Drakin020 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I rather like the idea of having an OS with as little on it as possible.

    That way I can add what I see fit, much like the Server OS.

    Hey it's a step in the right direction.

    --
    The greatest revenge in life is massive success.
    1. Re:While this may not please some... by mcsqueak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I rather like the idea of having an OS with as little on it as possible.

      Exactly! I know from a marketing standpoint you want to cram in as much of your own products as possible, in order to keep your brand in front of the customer, but having a truly modular OS would be very nice indeed.

      As a "non-technical user" there are a lot of Windows services that I don't use that would be nice to remove without having to worry about undermining the stability and underlying structure of the OS.

    2. Re:While this may not please some... by Daryen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I know you were just kidding, but I'd like to contribute.

      The Windows Add/Remove Programs menu doesn't even begin to cover what should be removable from the Operating System. Internet Explorer is the back end for a number of programs and cannot be fully removed, a few programs even rely on MSN Messenger and will not allow you to remove it if they are installed. There are all sorts of extra services running, like one for office that waits for it to be installed so it can clean it up. There's Alexa, a never ending assortment of drivers for ancient equipment. The system restore and hibernation services are installed and running whether you want them or not. And even in XP (although this is worse in Vista) the indexing service.

      There are replacements for every single one of these applications that are better than the original, yet there is no way to easily remove them. You should check out the nLite program for making your own Windows image to get an idea of all of the cruft that is built into Windows (and isn't anywhere in the add/remove programs menu). With Linux, everything outside of the Kernel can be removed, usually without even restarting. With Windows you need to reinstall just to remove most of this junk, and that's assuming you have the administrative knowledge to make your own custom image.

    3. Re:While this may not please some... by redxxx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I rather like the idea of having an OS with as little on it as possible.

      Exactly! I know from a marketing standpoint you want to cram in as much of your own products as possible, in order to keep your brand in front of the customer, but having a truly modular OS would be very nice indeed.

      It still works ok from a marketing standpoint. This pretty much forces(makes it easier than the alternatives anyway) users to go to Microsoft for simple software. It gets people into the habit of using the MS Live Repository, or whatever, which will help to lock people into using MS software.

      It also takes some of the wind from the FOSS folks sails, by creating something similar to the package systems for various distros and quiets some of the anti-trust bundling issues--without really giving up market share for their Apps, because they will be the first found by the average user.

      It probably will improve the user experience, but Microsoft will surely find ways to benefit from the new(for them) model. Microsoft benefiting from something does not necessarily mean it is evil.

    4. Re:While this may not please some... by DaveWick79 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      May I also contribute. The Windows Add/Remove Programs menu lets you remove just about everything the normal user should be able to remove as far as OS features or addon applications go. IE is the back end of the OS and they really have made it part of the OS - why should I uninstall it? I can remove the icon from my screen. I've never seen a program that required MSN or Windows Messenger to run, and you can uninstall it easily. System restore and Hibernation are easily disabled using the Control panel. Why do you want to remove the functionality, to save a few hundred KB? Why bother? They put features in the OS because people wanted it. If you give Joe Schmoe the ability to delete OS components, he will - and then wonder why stuff doesn't work.

      On the other hand, nLite is a great option for techies who want to customize their systems - and it's a great tool to have for those folks who wish to dabble in it.

    5. Re:While this may not please some... by PagosaSam · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I just had a horrible thought of Clippy popping up and saying "You look like your trying to draw a picture! Do you want me to download Paint?" Arg!

      --
      :q! Oh crap, not again...
    6. Re:While this may not please some... by Kanasta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't be tricked. It's just a ploy to promote Microsoft's Windows Live download service.
      As an MSN messenger user who uses a 3rd party MSN client, I'm not sure I like this.
      Why not let me download from Microsoft's site like everything else?

  2. As long... by Shados · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As long as they make sure that OEMs include some. Any, doesn't matter if its Outlook, Windows Live Mail, or whatever third party or open source app you want... Else customers will not be too happy out of the box.

    However, historically, with other things that were not included (like, let say, anti-virus for a while), the total trash that OEMs put on it (because they're paid to) really sucks ass, even if there are free alternatives that are really, really good.

    Customers are not going to be happy...

    1. Re:As long... by Dionysus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When it comes to apps like Windows Mail, I doubt the average person will notice. My impression is that most non-geek, people use webmail.

      --
      Je ne parle pas francais.
  3. Stupid by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Among the apps for the chop are Windows Mail...

    Er... I guess you don't see it this way, Microsoft, but I sure as hell always thought that checking your e-mail was basic computer functionality in this day and age. But hey, what do I know?

    Microsoft can talk about a "cleaner" OS all they want, but watch them change their tune when people scream about not being able to check their e-mail on a new PC.

    --
    "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    1. Re:Stupid by Drakin020 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The majority of people are just fine using web mail via gmail, hotmail, yahoo etc...

      It's not going to be an issue.

      --
      The greatest revenge in life is massive success.
    2. Re:Stupid by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Dude, we're talking about normal users here. There are people who won't know that you can download it, even if Microsoft puts a bright red flashing splash screen up when you first start Windows 7. This is a bad idea. Besides, I'm sure that your porn/warez/mp3/whatever collection won't suffer with the 100 MB that you free up by not having this.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    3. Re:Stupid by Dionysus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Dude, normal users use webmail. They don't even know how to set up pop to download their email.

      --
      Je ne parle pas francais.
  4. Will they take MSIE out as well? by erroneus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That would be newsworthy!

    1. Re:Will they take MSIE out as well? by qoncept · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nothing like not being able to download a web browser because you don't have a web browser!

      --
      Whale
  5. Re:Yes, let's remove the two most-used programs by Vancorps · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You realize that Microsoft got in trouble for that right? Given the current climate it's okay for Apple to do it legally but if Microsoft included all the apps that Apple does then they'd be back in court the next day.

  6. Re:This webification has gone too far. by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

    gmail is a good web mail but I would prefer a real client any day of the week. Even Linux Evolution is a better email than any web based email...

    Well, web-based email has the benefit of being accessible from wherever you're at. That's a huge advantage -- when I'm visiting my family, it's nice to be able to check my email.

    Plus, it's not like you can't use your favorite POP client to connect to gmail and read your mail in whatever client you like.

    Cheers

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  7. It' not about the apps by fishthegeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's about the training of the consumer to accept upselling to subscription based services.

    --
    load "$",8,1
  8. New Vista? by Sasayaki · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, if it's Vista minus the bloatware, DRM and huge resource requirements... it might be actually a decent operating system.

    Interesting that Microsoft appears to be actually listening to their users over Vista. That, or they're panicking and being forced to...

    --
    Check out my sci-fi book "Lacuna" at http://goo.gl/MVxX8
  9. Auto-Update by Light303 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I can already see Windows7 being shipped without all that useless bloatware ...
    ... and having it all installed again after selecting all "important" "security" updates ...

  10. I'm a little confused actually by martinw89 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When I recommend the Linux distribution I use, one of the things I promote is that:

    1. It's fast.
    2. AND it has everything you need from the start.

    By this, I mean that you can get set up and ideally have a complete working system right away. Browse the web with a strong browser, set up your email right away, view PDFs (with a fast PDF viewer), listen to music, write documents, spreadsheets, etc. Now, in practice some things don't work right away, but for that I blame general difficulty of installing any operating system (driver issues etc.) and licensing issues (goddamn MP3 license). I think installing an OS will always be a PITA, just on varying levels. Licensing is getting better with more distros offering paid legal licenses for MP3.

    Anyway, what I'm getting to is that I feel a complete OS offers a solid platform on which to build. From my experience, casual users are satisfied with the included apps in a modern Linux distro save for maybe a better music player for the music buffs or better photo management for digital camera users. I think a minimal OS translates more to a Slack or Gentoo approach, which I doubt the everyday user wants. This also encourages OEMs to put their crap into EVEN MORE basic uses.

    I think the association of Windows and bloat comes not from included MS apps (maybe not including Movie Maker), but instead from OEMs putting their shit on these computers. Good for Microsoft for making ANY change, but I think the real reduction in bloat happens at the installer level, not the OS producer. Let me know when a pig sprouts wings and the OEMs start putting less shit on their builds.

  11. Re:standard apps? by Drathos · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not only did this ship with XP, as others have noted, but you couldn't remove it.

    When I found it on a work computer I had inherited, I tried to remove it. Uninstall? Not listed. Windows Setup? Not listed. Ok, Delete the directory. Success! Five minutes later when I was looking for other things to clear off, I found the directory had been recreated in C:\Program Files\, complete with files! I have no idea where they came from, either, as the computer was not on the network and did not have the Windows CD in (or the install files on the hard drive).

    IIRC, when Movie Maker 2 was available on the Windows Update site, there was a note that you wouldn't be able to uninstall it.

    --
    End of line..
  12. Re:Windows 7 by numbski · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Okay - jokes over. Everyone can go now.

    Seriously - why are we making this so difficult?

    We have Windows like this:

    Windows 3 (pre-9x?)
    Windows 3.11 for Workgroups (NT3)
    Windows NT (NT4)
    Windows 95 (Win9x)
    Windows 98 (Win9x - 95 with actual USB support)
    Windows ME (Win9x - 98, but broken out of the box)
    Windows 2000 (NT5)
    Windows XP (NT5 - 2000 but with Fisher-Price lickable interface)
    Windows Vista (NT6)

    So - that brings us to Windows 7, presumably NT7. What we're really speculating is that despite the labelling, Windows 7 is actually still NT6, but possibly the latest version of ME. Since 98, you notice a trend?

    98, ME (9x)
    2000, XP (NT5)
    Vista, ? (NT6)
    ? (NT7)

    Looks to me like he's onto something.

    --

    Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

  13. Re:IE by peektwice · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hell, Windows itself is optional.

    --
    Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.