O3B Details Plan for Satellite-Based Bandwidth For Africa

slash-sa writes "O3B Networks has been quietly preparing itself over the last 12 months for the moment last week when it announced that it was going to be offering cheap, low-latency satellite bandwidth that can cover any part of Africa by 2010. It has put in place early finance with Google, Liberty Global and HSBC. Here are more details from the entrepreneur behind the project, Greg Wyler."

Comments

Boom time

[gevreet]

With many african states effectively landlocked and with poor or insecure infrastructure this could be the data boom that africa has been waiting for. That is if it isn't choked off by self serving governments.

Re:Boom time

[Jesse Rudolph]

Maybe its an improvement, but its still total crap. It can only hope to benefit foreign nationals, and the bastards with their feet on everyone else's necks. Random micro-grants and Peace Corps funding cannot make this viable for the people in Africa who really need it anytime soon.

Re:Boom time

[bschorr]

Well, what would you prefer to see instead?

Re:Boom time

[wperry1]

Great! Now I can start filtering tons of SPAM from Africa too!

Re:Boom time

[Kintanon]

I would prefer to see most of the interference with local economies stopped. UN food donations destroyed the economic viability of local farmers and put them out of work. Continued interference and improved prenatal care from UN medics and US Missionaries is resulting in more babies being surviving. US missionaries reinforcing the local taboo against condoms has done nothing to help the birth rates or slow the spread of AIDS on the continent. The result is a place where the average life span for people who survive past 3 years old is around 19 with almost no one living beyond 35.
Not to mention that a large portion of all of the actual useful aid like medical supplies is confiscated by warlords for their own use. If we REALLY wanted to help Africa we would be sending in the occasional team of Marines to obliterate warlord camps and airdropping condoms with instructions and a good story about how wearing them will protect you from demons. The birth rate will decline, a large part of the population will die and the remaining people will actually have enough to eat.
All of these things are more useful than broadband internet, but that doesn't mean broadband internet is bad. Giving villages access to a larger view of the planet can only help things really. Even if it's not the best or most immediate help.

Re:Boom time

[AmberBlackCat]

With many african states effectively landlocked and with poor or insecure infrastructure this could be the data boom that africa has been waiting for. That is if it isn't choked off by self serving governments.

Or self-serving search/advertisement giants.

Re:Boom time

[tylerni7]

I really disagree. Some schools in Africa have satellite internet access already.(I know of at least 2 in Malawi, that's the only place I've spent much time in Africa, though) This will simply make it cheaper and faster (they were happy with ~3kB/s).
While no one will benefit from this right away besides the very rich, it will spread eventually. And while it won't be cheap for a long time, it will be far more affordable to any alternative now.

Also, while the villagers probably won't be getting internet access at their homes, it wouldn't be out of the question for someone to set up internet cafes, where they can go online and learn or send emails or whatever.

So basically, no this is not total crap.

Re:Boom time

[grcumb]

With many african states effectively landlocked and with poor or insecure infrastructure this could be the data boom that africa has been waiting for. That is if it isn't choked off by self serving governments.

Governments are a problem, true. But in my experience, the problem is the telcos. I've spent the last five years helping out in a collective effort to improve communications by liberalising the telecoms market in a developing country. Once we got even the threat of competition into the market, prices dropped through the floor.

Two years ago, about 30% of the country I live in had access to telephone services. That number is now 85%. The next step is Internet. No sooner did the government announce a new round of licenses for ISPs then the local telco dropped prices by 50%.

Governments can be the problem sometimes. It's true that without the political will, there's very little you can do to improve communications. But more often than not, the officials blocking any movement in that regard are in the pocket of the companies sucking the country dry.

Not all telecoms companies are created equal. Denis O'Brien and Digicel have based their entire business on supplying services in areas that other companies couldn't or wouldn't bother with. They turned $505 million in operating profit on $1.6 billion in business last year.

These days I spend most of my time convincing people that ubiquitous coverage works. Network Effects (using the right technologies) can make even the most cash-poor areas profitable, because wealthy familiy members always call home to the village. Or they would, if they could. In short, you don't make your money by originating connections in marginal areas, you make your money terminating them there.

Creating ubiquitous LEO-based satellite service in tropical regions is a great idea. If the idea is implemented properly, it will be revolutionary. The best part is, the other telcos can't block you from deploying the network. Which means that governments have no incentives (or means) to nationalise your infrastructure, skim off your profits or regulate you out of existence. Just focus on the countries where the regulatory environment is good and let the others come online in their own good time.

Re:Boom time

[Jesse Rudolph]

I agree. A lot of aid given to africa is never seen by africans that need to be aided. Who do you think in africa, who has good intentions for the general populace is going to be able to price an internet service, and provide that service to the impoverished status quo, without being turned financially inside out? As far as I understand the situation, the answer is no one. All it does is give those with enough resources and political power to flourish in africa (the bad guys, and foreign ex-patriots) more leverage over the under-foot majority.

Re:Cheap?

[Technician]

"Low latency satellite bandwidth at USD 500 a Mbps or less by 2010"

Due to speed, time, distance physics, geostationary is high latency simply due to the speed of light and the distance out to the geostationary belt.

Because they're approximately 5 times closer to the earth than geo-satellites, the latency is reduced by approximately five times. It's a constellation of satellites?

That leaves low earth orbit. Low earth orbit means dopplar shift and high power or real time tracking.

Maybe for businesses..

Or maybe ISP's who then run WiMax.

Re:Cheap?

[TooMuchToDo]

Should've just dragged fiber.

Re:Cheap?

[Anonymous Coward]

Haha, and how many cable laying crews would you sacrifice to the violence that occurs in the majority of Africa?

I, for one, welcome my new internet overlords(EOM)

[operator_error]

....

Re:Cheap?

[TooMuchToDo]

I never said *unarmed* cable laying crews.

Re:Cheap?

[Anonymous Coward]

You'll need those guards to protect the cable after it's buried too, or the local "entrepreneurs" will just dig it up and sell it.

Might work

[djupedal]

...since the Chinese are already putting together the ground systems - WIMAX, etc. ZTE has been there since 2006...

Mobiles not laptops

[MosesJones]

I know that we are techies and we like computers but seriously do we think that the internet is the best thing to get into Africa in a hurry? If you look at what mobile phones have done in terms of communication and micro-payments then its hard to see the point of pushing expensive ($500 in a continent where people live on less than $1 a day) internet access as an important thing. Get the mobile phone network out first. This has the advantage of being lower power and with a built in infrastructure that can help micro-payments.

Arguing for VOIP and other internet based services as a way that internet access would be better ignores some of the basic economics and the experience of most 3rd world countries in the success of mobile phone communications in helping to raise people up out of poverty. Basic communications (voice) is the first step here.

So its good that its being done, but it would be nice to see one of these high profile cases actually support an existing approach that is working rather than always going after the "everyone must have a computer" scenario that makes sense for people sitting in an office in California.

 

Re:Mobiles not laptops

[Jesse Rudolph]

But how the hell will they know who's selling cheap goats and Mefloquine without craigslist? George Jetson never caught malaria, and always had plenty of food pills. Case in point.

Re:Mobiles not laptops

[overzero]

As far as I can tell, this is a for-profit venture, so while I agree with your point, it doesn't seem to be relevant.

Re:Mobiles not laptops

[cong06]

Have you ever been to Africa?
Imagine this:
A group of people that want to promote a good organization in the poorest Area of Tanzania. They want a website so they can get support from Americans who are willing to help their cause. Their website will have to be American based because the internet in Africa is terrible, and the fact that they have to connect to it through Cell phones makes it worse.
Instead this organization has a representative (that's traveling anyway) Upload the data in Kenya where internet is more reliable.

Now Imagine this:
A student wants to learn all he can at an affordable price. Text books are expensive and internet is basically not available (and even more expensive). The cheapest way is to have a friend from the states ship CD's of data that the student can then look over.

And this:
A Town wants to start an internet cafe, a source of income as well as development for the town. The two options are cellphone usb cards so that the computers hook up to a cellphone provider and use it as their internet (cheap set up, expensive use, price per MB) or Satellite (expensive set up, expensive use, price per Month). Said town is expected to go through a boom with an international airport about to open leading tourists right into the Serengeti. If the internet could be harnessed, this could mean a good economic boom for the town, and the money getting funneled right into the developmental project.

From my experience in Mugumu, I'd love to have this help them out. (and the airport probably won't yet be finished by 2010)

Re:Mobiles not laptops

[jacquesm]

At the pricepoint they have in mind it's going to be pretty hard to afford that without some serious backing to begin with.

Re:Mobiles not laptops

[StrawberryFrog]

do we think that the internet is the best thing to get into Africa in a hurry? ... Get the mobile phone network out first.

What do you mean by "Africa" in this context? it's a vast continent, with a range of economies. I only really known South Africa (one of the better economies) which as two or three decent mobile phone networks. However, due to the large areas involved, you don't get coverage everywhere. Doing this as well as other things would, I think, be a positive thing. The oddest thing about your ideas seems to be that this commercial venture somehow stops other things from happening as well.

rather than always going after the "everyone must have a computer" scenario

If the "everyone must have a computer" scenario is wrong, does that mean that you should attack any attempt to get anyone a computer? Does Africa, in your opinion, have enough computers and internet access?

Re:Mobiles not laptops

[jotok]

You are woefully uninformed about Africa and you are reading into this venture.

There are places where people are living on next to nothing, but there are also relatively stable places that would benefit immensely from cheap internet as an enabling factor (Ghana, Nairobi, Joburg) for education and business. Look at what hooking up Pune has done for India.

It seems like any time anyone suggests investing in the tech sector anywhere in Africa, some doofus comes along and links to the Onion's "Tribesman uses modem to crush nut" or talks about how we should focus on "feeding people," whatever that means. You're basically arguing that we shouldn't improve the economy because we need to help the poor instead.

If you want to get educated, App+Frica is a good place to start.

Re:Mobiles not laptops

[batje]

I live in Uganda, which is the target audience for these satellites. We have 4 mobile providers, all providing GSM services. Mobile services are covered. What is not provided for is cheap IP. 500USD a month for 1 MB is Cheap. Currently the satellite prices are as much as 9000USD. Which is what our ISP would pay. Imagine our pricing or bandwidth sharing scheme! I am currently on a 64Kbps line for 175USD a month. I have a good deal. While the costs and access to communication services have improved tremendously over the last 10 years, there is a very real and true need for the next step. The step where people here can tap into the immense amount of knowledge that the human species is documenting on the Internet. That knowledge, for a great deal, is out of reach of most people here. And it is that knowledge that will eventually lead to the changes here that are so badly needed. This o3b initiative is the most beautiful gift to the African continent, ever.

Re:Mobiles not laptops

[StrawberryFrog]

Mobiles not laptops

Also, where exactly does the dividing line between laptops and mobile phones lie? They both can run apps and exchange data, including voice data. Project the iPhone, android phone, OLPC and eee pc out for 5 or 10 years and think about what a meaningless distinction it's becoming.

Re:Mobiles not laptops

[grcumb]

Basic communications (voice) is the first step here.

So its good that its being done, but it would be nice to see one of these high profile cases actually support an existing approach that is working rather than always going after the "everyone must have a computer" scenario that makes sense for people sitting in an office in California.

There's some wisdom in what you're saying. SMS-based interfaces to online services are way easier to deploy and use in developing countries.

The big stumbling block is not so much cost as power, by the way. There's always someone willing to fund a computer - and if you can get one, you should, because the value proposition is much more compelling. Computers do so much more than a mobile can (at least for now).

But what good's a computer if you can't run it? Unless you have reliable, low-cost local power generation, you can forget about running them. A mobile phone, on the other hand, can be charged using a small solar panel, a hand charger, or a small business that charges mobile phones for a fee. I've seen all of these at work.

Building SMS-based application interfaces is a very straightforward task, and the rewards are immense. The interface is not as rich as the web, but in many ways that's a good thing. It takes away the temptation to do anything but provide functionality. No value-added cruft imposed by marketing.

In significant parts of the world, SMS-based credit transfer has replaced cash. A owes B money. A transfers phone credit to B, who then on-sells it in small chunks to C and D. The phone credit retains its face value, so it works as ad hoc currency. There you have it: simple, efficient banking services in areas without roads, power or, in many cases, rule of law.

Re:Cheap?

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

Or maybe ISP's who then run WiMax.

Wow! It's like you're psychic!

From TFA:

Q: What markets are you aiming at?

Telcos for transmission backhaul will be the core of our market.

Impractical.

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

Should've just dragged fiber.

Do you have any idea how the logistic problems with trying to lay fibre from Satelites down to Africa?

First you've got to fire your rocket carrying the fibre up, get it to loop over the satellite without destroying it, then have the rocket carefully navigate back to your chosen destination.

No - wireless is a better solution with satellites IMHO.

Re:Cheap?

[RuBLed]

He never said *unarmed* cables.

Re:Cheap?

[jamstar7]

You'll need those guards to protect the cable after it's buried too, or the local "entrepreneurs" will just dig it up and sell it.

Fiber optic cable isn't inherently resellable. They won't bother digging it up.

On the other tentacle, the way the local warlords in Africa play politics with food and food delivery, the local 'entrepeneurs' cutting the fiber is a very high probability, almost a no-brainer.

Africa has some serious problems, and I don't even pretend to be an expert. They've got an AIDS epidemic eating its way through the entire continent, rampant famine and drought conditions since just this side of forever, practically no infrastructure over the level of a mud hut north of Johanesburg and south of Cairo, and anyone with an axe to grind (which is just about everybody there) is out to kill their neighbor for fun, profit, or something to do on a slow Saturday night. Will this fix things in Africa? No. Will it hurt things in Africa? Possibly, by draining what little is left of the available capital still there. Will it help things in Africa? Maybe. It's a start, anyways. Change for the better has to start someplace, and this just might help.

Re:Cheap?

[hcdejong]

How would that help? As always, it's the 'last mile' problem: connecting 500 million homes, spread over a continent with a low average population density and lots of undeveloped terrain would be hugely expensive. This is the reason landline telephony has remained a privilege of the rich, and the continent has mostly gone straight to mobile telephony.

say hello to the next generation of call centers.

[timmarhy]

you know what all this bandwidth will be aimed at don't you, given the super cheap labor in africa. call centers and telemarketers. not necessarily a bad thing as it'll bring wealth into the nations that embrace it, but incredibility annoying to everyone else.

Re:Cheap?

[Anonymous Coward]

so tourism isn't the main reason Homo sapiens left africa?

Re:Cheap?

[Technician]

Wow! It's like you're psychic!

Shhh. It's an insult to all those who didn't read the article like the one I replied to.

Re:Cheap?

[bschorr]

And not just low population density but low per-capita INCOME. It's not that hard to get your connectivity the last mile when you're Warren Buffet. It's not so easy when you're Dbenka Mtumbo and your annual income is measured in goats.

Sell this short if you can. It will make you rich.

[viking80]

This can not be competitive in any way. A fiber costs very little to roll out, and there is good capacity in ocean fibers terminating in many African coastal cities. The only problem with fibers on land is theft. Anything valuable is stolen.

More than 90% of the population lives close to the coast.

To spend millions to build a complicated space based network to cover the poorest of the poorest 10% seems like a very poor investment. (By complicated I just mean that the satellites need to hand a connection between satellites as they orbit over Africa, as well as down linking via multiple satellites, and traffic based dynamic antenna configuration and aiming.)

Re:Cheap?

[Hurricane78]

Unfortunately this all does not matter, as long as the world trade organization keeps them intentionally in a tight grip. :\
And: No. I do not care for conspiracy theories very much. As a matter of fact, ask the "Yes Men". They can tell you tales from the inside, and prove it without drifting off to loony space way.

Re:Cheap?

[Hurricane78]

Luckily they come up with their own solutions. Like sharing one mobile phone per town.
It's very sad when you think, what potential is lost down there. Africa has many natural resources, which in itself should make it a pretty rich continent.
But the Internet is a huge chance for them, because you can live in your hut in the middle of an oasis in the Sahara, and still make money as a service business. You only need a brain, an Internet connection, and enough food/water to survive, until you got enough information from the net, to be able to provide and sell those services. Don't think they're unable to quickly understand the Internet, just because it's completely new to them. If it's a child, it does not matter. Give it a year, or less, and it's up to our level.

Oh, I forgot the language barrier. So let's summarize:

Give a teen a laptop like the OLPC, with solar power, full Internet access and an included language course, and in a matter of five years, he's rocking the town. In 10 years he can support others in his town. In 20 years he can bring his town to wealth.

I always found sending food down to be close to murdering children, because in the end, it will not raise their natural resources avaliable to *them*, and there will just be more children to starve... or we would have to send even more food and make them even more dependent.... Two morally very questionable things to do...

Oh well... or we could stop the stranglehold of the WTO...

Re:Why Bother?

[jacquesm]

FYI the 'developed' nations raped, plundered and killed so much during the last 400 years in that 'unproductive' continent that it will take them a couple of centuries more to recover. Let's hope by then they'll have mellowed out a bit about it or we'll definitely be seeing worldwar III.

All the arms sales currently going on, supporting I don't know how many puppet regimes selling some priceless resource for pennies on the dollar it is simply astounding.

Re:Cheap?

[rolfwind]

Should have, would have, could have.

Go there and do it, or invest in a company that will if you really believe that is the case.

I believe it's amazing what the company is promising, and if it's on no public's dime until they give actual service, I don't see that you have cause to complain.

Harder then it seems, trust me

[jiggerdot]

I currently work for a company providing IP communications via satellite (both inclined and geostationary). Most of our customers are in Africa, and include some of the biggest ISPs in the more developed regions. since the bandwidth market there has been exploding in the last several years. So I know what I'm talking about when I say this guy sounds VERY optimistic.

The idea of using low earth orbit satellites is great as the latency on geostationary is indeed horrible. you're looking at a minimum of 500ms just to reach the ISP installation (in the US and Europe, in our case) and the RTT to your destination on top of that.If you run into another satellite link on the way, that's 1000ms minimum. so 123ms sounds terrific. BUT:

1) The guy flippantly says "If they want a gigabit, we'll give them a gigabit". For a gigabit, you'll need to work several transponders, with some insane modulation scheme (highest practical I've seen is 16psk, they'll need something MUCH more dense). The higher they go, the more error prone they get.

2) LEO will require tracking, or very high power. which means either a very powerful HPA (for the small links - the ones without the 3.5 meter dish) or a very fast tracking system for the large links with the dish. And what happens when you have to switch satellites?

3) They're looking to solve the last-mile issue with WiMax. This will interfere with C-band transmissions, so I'm assuming they will go with Ku-Band or higher, which is extremll sensitive to rain fade. Africa has quite a lot of rain. Combine this with point no. 1, and you're in trouble.

4) The article indicates they will give the customer a VAST or transmission station and all is good. It is not. Africa is not a nice place. equipment gets stolen and sabotaged. This is from sad experience. And if you do not have techs on the ground (which are very hard to find, at least competent ones) you're stuck either telling the customer "sucks to be you" or trying to support him through the phone with the replacement of a transmitter, which is a bit like trying to help someone fix an engine by correspondence.

5) The human factor - Without sounding too patronizing, the guys in Africa (even the more professional ones) need a LOT of hand holding. I truly hope they have a big and competent support department and NOC staff at the ready, who can understand garbled English through a bad phone connection, as these guys will want help with everything. From helping to identify which device in the network is causing congestion on the link, to "IP experts" who will be brought in to bring up a BGP session and will not know how to access the router, and will want your help in resetting the password step-by-step. You can, of course, tell them to manage their own networks, but you WILL lose customers. That's a lesson we learned the hard way.

In short, good luck to them, but if they truly think the technical challenges are the only ones, they're in for a very nasty surprise.

Re:Cheap?

[Hurricane78]

Yeah. Run right into it. :(

Normally, I would refrain from calling slashdotters idiots. We are well educated, we know more than the average Joe, we are proud of our intellect... ...yet we are just simple humans, who in bad times can not withstand the full consequences of how much this world beats us down, and survive.
It is this psychological protection of the own reality, that we talked about some hours/days ago, right here on slashdot that protects us from breaking down. And it's a wise tactic, because we in fact survied.
But deep down, we all know... strange lost votes in our proud 1st world countries, our own people captured and tortured for no reason, people of the highest ranks, lying to us, or suddenly forgetting everything, cameras watching every step, the whole population having one foot in the jail because of laws that nobody can know of follow anymore, companies selling hard drugs as calmatives to our childern, and that bribery suddenly is called "lobbying", and we even have to die in wars for interest that go against our own...

I know, I know... you are thinking "It's not *that* bad. You are overreacting. You are wrong! Troll! I can't see this shit!". And I agree.
This is out protection system kicking in, right there. And you can let it go all the way. Accuse me of whatever insult you know.
Because after all is said and done, and it's quiet inside, the feeling of what you really think and feel is going on, is strongest.

Give yourself the time. This is where your intelligence starts thinking up new ways to look away from what you just felt. Observe it as it happens. Knowing of your protection system, and not forgetting what you saw in that quiet moment.

Because then you gain the power to look around the protective layer, if you choose to, without it breaking down your world.
And if protection kicks in again, just justify your reality by knowing that you will not ignore it, because you're way to intelligent and able, to let it slide and live like the cattle, like the average Joe.

I hope, then you - the (wise) people - will rule the country again.

Re:Cheap?

[Hurricane78]

I apologize for the typos. I have some post-submit errata:

"people captured and tortured"
="people being captured and tortured"

", and that bribery"
= ", that bribery"

"I can't see this shit!"
= "I can't look at this shit!"

"This is out protection system"
= "This is our protection system"

"will rule the country again."
="will rule your country again."

Finally: The whole text is meant to sound quiet and non-aggressive. I hope it's not misunderstood.

Re:Sell this short if you can. It will make you ri

[hcdejong]

You're going to need a LOT of fibre to connect even 10% of African households (that's 50 million people).

Also, "More than 90% of the population lives close to the coast." does not seem to be supported by this map of population density.

Why tagged "Apple"?

[argent]

What does this have to do with Apple?

Re:Cheap?

[OeLeWaPpErKe]

You need arms to protect those arms.

(recursion is fun)

Re:Why Bother?

[timmarhy]

probably dig the copper up - hence why laying copper or fiber is a bad idea. what point at you trying to make here?

Re:Why Bother?

[timmarhy]

let me guess, thats your way of saying the white man done it?

seriously that excuse isn't going to cut it forever. Crime and corruption committed by black people to other black people is NOT the rest of the worlds fault no matter what twisted logic you try apply.

Re:say hello to the next generation of call center

[pecosdave]

Does this mean we'll start getting Nigerian telemarketers? Not selling me insurance, but telling me how I can collect.

O3B - Android ... Google sets sights to be MNO?

[RobWalker]

Google clearly sees potential for African web access then ... but how do you get it to the consumer if many countries don't have infrastructure or PCs. Unless of course you had a handset you could re-package / re-price in a "stripped out" form that could access it direct? In which case you could get voice - data - and web all from one device, all direct from Google? Of course technically it may not be that easy to create an Android device that could do this - but if it were possible, it'd immediately make Google a pan-African MNO

Re:Cheap?

[KGIII]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW9_wlfiRJY

Start at about 4:00 marker or listen to all of it. I think you might appreciate it.

space elevator

[Anonymous Coward]

Should've just dragged fiber.

Do you have any idea how the logistic problems with trying to lay fibre from Satelites down to Africa?

It's worth the effort. Once you lay the fibre not only do you have high speed Internet, you have a space elevator as well.

Re:space elevator

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

Once you lay the fibre not only do you have high speed Internet, you have a space elevator as well.

Not to mention the effects a high-fibre satellite will have on our gastrointestinal tubes health!

once we

[nimbius]

tackle famine, disease, drought, poverty, ethnic extermination, and tribal infighting...then we can worry about getting the latest nigerian scams to my inbox faster.

if anyones wondering "why satellite" its simple. vast stretches of africa have no electrical infrastructure...let alone water. i have a feeling this entrepreneur just wants to see his name listed next to "brought teh interwebs to afrika furst!!" in the history books.

Re:Cheap?

[cayenne8]

"Africa has some serious problems, and I don't even pretend to be an expert. They've got an AIDS epidemic eating its way through the entire continent, rampant famine and drought conditions since just this side of forever, practically no infrastructure over the level of a mud hut north of Johanesburg and south of Cairo, and anyone with an axe to grind (which is just about everybody there) is out to kill their neighbor for fun, profit, or something to do on a slow Saturday night."

I was just thinking along these lines....with all the problems Africa has, why are people throwing money at and often trying to come up with technology to connect Africa to the internet, and throw cheap laptops at them? I mean, if they have no electricity, no food, no water...why the fuck would anyone be trying to get these people on the internet, rather than help them figure out how to just basically survive?

Lord, if you see a drowning man, you throw him a rope, not the latest copy of Road and Track magazine.....

Not true

[bruce_the_loon]

There is minimal fibre capacity terminating in the southern sections of Africa. The biggest is SAT-3 and that is pathetic and only lands in South Africa. There are new cables in the pipeline, three under construction, but availability will be limited for the first few years. 2 of the ones under construction are to be dedicated for the 2010 World Cup and may (may) be released when that is over. The other will land in July 2009 and then we have to backhaul the capacity to the inland and distant coastal cities over networks which don't exist yet.

Re:Cheap?

[wperry1]

It may also be of interest to note that even a developed nation like the US has trouble getting broadband Internet to rural areas.

Re:Wonderful

[sapphire wyvern]

Africa's an entire continent. While parts of it need those basics more than internet, there's a lot of Africa that has the basics sorted out - and would benefit hugely from this.

Re:Sell this short if you can. It will make you ri

[flyingfsck]

Yup, what is more, a fibre cable already circumnavigates Africa and was paid for by the usual partners: South Africa, Nigeria, Egypt and Portugal. The sad fact is that most of Africa is unable to do anything with it.

Re:Why Bother?

[flyingfsck]

"400 years". Africa has been 'exporting' its surplus people for millions of years. The colonial period was actually a golden age during which the Western world (all of whom originated from Africa) invested heavily back in Africa. When the colonial period stopped, the investment stopped and Africa went back to its roots of plunder and destruction.

World War III

[Anonymous Coward]

et's hope by then they'll have mellowed out a bit about it or we'll definitely be seeing worldwar III.

Wake up there, Mister Rip Van Winkle.

We've already seen World War III. And the world lost.

The fixed physics

[Toll_Free]

This is simply amazing.

Thus far, radio waves could only travel at 186K miles a second, give or take (depending on a factor called the velocity factor).

Since they figured out the latency with wireless links (satellite is wireless, after all), I'm wondering exactly HOW they got the radio waves to travel faster than the speed of light.

I mean, kill the latency, the packets HAVE to be arriving quicker, when the medium is dead space, right?

Sheesh, marketing speak at it's finest.

--Toll_Free

Re:The fixed physics

[PhilipPeake]

Would you care to explain what you wrote above?

Preferably in English?

Re:Cheap?

[Toll_Free]

Everything you describe is called tribal warfare.

It's been going on their since the beginning of time.

It's migrated to the rest of the world, but now we call it either gang violence or inner city violence.

--Toll_Free

Re:Cheap?

[Toll_Free]

What in the fuck are you smoking.

I think having a clean place to take a shit instead of in their own water supply ranks a bit higher than giving mbeki a laptop.

I understand your point, and Bono would agree. Let Bono stop huffing poop and fix the problems with his billions, rather than trying to force other countries to do so.

Anywho.

-Toll_Free (With a clean spot to shyt)

Re:Wonderful

[AmberBlackCat]

I was with you all the way up to "the prevailing tribal mentality that cause them to kill each other on a regular basis".

Re:Cheap?

[aclarke]

When I was a kid growing up in Zambia, the local kids would dig up the copper wire from the phone system because it was all brightly coloured. They'd use the wire to decorate their homemade wire cars.

I still feel sort of bad about ... aah err I mean, of course *I* never did any of this.

Anyway, I'm just adding on to your point that people shouldn't assume what has value and what doesn't until they've been to Africa and seen what it's like there and what happens.

Re:Why Bother?

[tylerni7]

Sure it's not the rest of the world's fault, but do you really think that having the "white men" take as many resources as they could, divide up the natives' land destroying boundaries that had been in place for centuries, and take their villagers as slaves could have helped?

Just look at what happened in Palestine if you don't think little boundary disputes can cause violence in civilized people.

While it isn't just the "white man's" fault, I think crime and corruption committed in Africa wouldn't be as bad if the "white man" didn't come and screw everything up.

It's also worth noting that not all of Africa is plagued by violence... a lot of the people there are far more friendly than you'd find anywhere else, despite their situation. Of course, they don't make the news as often for some reason.

Re:Cheap?

[jc42]

Lord, if you see a drowning man, you throw him a rope, not the latest copy of Road and Track magazine.....

Well, yeah, but to make the metaphor fit most of Africa (and many other parts of the world), you have to do a bit more. After all, he was probably drowning because the local gang of thugs tied him up and tossed him in the water. If you just pull him back to shore and walk away, in an hour he'll be back in the water, drowning again. You just wasted your time and effort, and didn't help at all.

And in such cases, the best way to prevent future drownings is information. You should help the locals document and expose the thugs who are running things. You should help the locals communicate with each other, and you should help them find defenses.

Otherwise, the drownings will just continue.

The history of first-world aid to poor regions is mostly a history of dismal failure. Food and medical aid are short-term stopgaps that mostly raise the survival and birth rates, so after a generation there are more people starving and dying young. More food and medical aid of will not fix the problems; it will just continue to maximize the number of suffering people.

So some people are trying a different approach: Help the people get access to the information they need to find ways out of their bad situation. Let someone else continue the stopgap aid, but also try to give the people ideas and knowledge that the local thugs have been blocking for all of history.

Maybe it'll help; maybe it won't. Maybe the local thugs will just take over the electronics and block access to the outside. But access to information is unlikely to make things worse, as food/medical aid alone does. And we already have examples of cases where such access has materially improved things. It's worth trying in Africa, too.

Re:Cheap?

[cayenne8]

"For the most part the villagers, those that live outside the cities, don't understand or comprehend the idea of helping out each other in order to improve their current situation. Instead they have the mentality of you've got food I don't have any give me your food so I can live. And in doing so they stay lazy and don't want to grow their own food because their "brother" will (is required by their society) to give him food.

Their society works totally different than our own and I think a lot of people a) don't know this or b)can't fathom this in the first place. It certainly didn't make much sense to me as it was instilled in me when I was growing up that if you didn't work to improve yourself you'd more or less become another number in the book of natural selection. The villages can't seem to understand that if they don't farm a crop large enough for the months/years ahead they may not have food when something bad happens. In other words they don't plan for the future but live in the here and now. Expecting the next generation to take care of the problems and the cycle continues. So more or less they need education first and foremost along with help building the infrastructure needed to bring a tribal people into the 21st century."

Well, if that is the case...Fuck'em.

I mean, if you can't teach someone to help themselves...well, at some point you just have to save your breath and your finances and move on to helps someone that will help themselves.