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Apple Allows Lotus On iPhone (After Banning Competitor)
ImNotAtWork writes "Apple is allowing IBM's Lotus
to be installed on iPhones. Recently it killed a developer-submitted program that was deemed competitive with Apple's product."
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IBM can actually fight back.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
The people (or businesses in this case) using Lotus are not the same type of people using Apple's built in programs. Not that I agree with banning competition, but their reasoning is most likely that this will help enterprise adoption and not hurt their consumer apps usage. After all, does anyone actually choose to use Lotus?
Lotus Notes for iPhone is just a plain old Web app. You can't stop the web.
ENDUT! HOCH HECH!
...this really makes me shake my head.
I can't understand why Apple would be so desperate to block third party browser and mail apps. It appears to make no sense.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
Lotus notes is not the same as using Mail and iCal on the iPhone. The program that was denied by Apple usurped those apps into its own app. To my knowledge Mail or iCal have no Lotus syncing features.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
My enemy's enemy is my ... hey ... whatever happened to that Vista company?
I'm not defending Apple's decisions on what apps can run and can't; if anything I'm really p*ssed that they would prevent any "competitive" product from running on the iPhone.
That said, Notes is something completely different than a straight email program. If anything, it's basically a database program, and email is just another schema in it. It's so completely unlike regular email programs that I could see Apple not having a problem with it, especially since you need to have a Notes server to get/put anything, unlike a regular SMTP/IMAP/POP server, and a Notes server, coming from IBM, is not free.
Basically this is like permitting Oracle's Financial app to be installed; it's only useful if you have the back end system (which also costs $$$$$$$$).
Did the poster even read this article before posting it? It clearly says that it's a web based application that will run through the Safari browser. Nothing gets installed on the iPhone. Try reading it next time before posting, that way the headline you choose might make sense.
if they choose to allow flash, many shortcomings like low battery life, no background tasks, and general system inestability will be even more common.
IBM has more influence with Apple than Joe Random Developer. What a surprise ...
[Insert pithy quote here]
The IBM system is just a web app i.e. a web page with AJAX, viewed via Safari on the iphone. Of course Apple can't ban it, anymore than they can ban you from visiting gmail with an iphone.
The whole AppStore NDA issue is important, and worthy of discussion, but can we at least avoid FUD ridden straw men like this one.
Is Lotus Notes considered "competitive" to anything?
Do you have ESP?
1-2-3?
Lotus is a suite of applications, much like Microsoft Office Super Deluxe Expenz-0-pro 2011 isn't just a word processor.
So while in one case a piece of software was written that had identical functionality as the mail app on the iphone, the other is a leviathan of "one stop computing" functionality, done up only as IBM can. Additionally, since Lotus can use its own proprietary method of communication between nodes, it's entirely expected that this app won't know what the hell IMAP is. Nor does it need to, since it's not a functional clone of Apple mail on any platform.
Unfortunately the App Store debacle has grown to ridiculous proportions, almost entirely by the users themselves, each clamoring for a better view of the Pocket Protector Revolution, where right-thinking geeks everywhere will suddenly rise up, tear away the chains of their oppressors, and insure that everyone enjoys free (as in beer) tea, cake, and quality software forever.
.
There certainly seems to be a lot of whining by a vocal few who feel entitled to access to the iPhone. I especially enjoy the whining of people who have their apps disallowed. The reasons for the app rejection were well known, if only they had read the developers' agreement with Apple that they had agreed to before they started developing their apps.
1. This is not an app, but a web app: http://www-01.ibm.com/software/lotus/products/domino-web-access/ultralite/ /. failboat...
2. Even if it WAS an app, I can't use iPhone's Mail app to access a Domino Directory (such as the one at my employer). mail app can access GMail and this is why the app got rejected. Seems these two scenarios are different. 3. All aboard the
Fails
Any justifiable limit on freedom will be adapted to unjustifiable purposes for which it was not originally intended.
There is a legitimate justification for denying developers unrestricted freedom to publish iPhone apps: It keeps consumers safe from malicious applications.
Now that after the policy of denying freedom to publish has been established, for that legitimate purpose, it is adapted to the illegitimate purposes of restraining competition and playing favorites.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
Notes email client isn't even a *good* email client.
Notes is more like a browser for a weird mainframe version of the web, based on copying and synchronizing databases. It's like what you'd have gotten if OSI networking and IBM mainframes had been the basis of the world wide web.
As anyone who has been forced to use Notes will tell you.
Lotus is a brand, not a product. As far as I know, the product IBM Lotus is releasing for the iPhone is iNotes, the webmail interface to a Lotus Domino mail server. This isn't a Notes client for the iPhone.
Granted the presentation of this post is a bit trollish, he's nonetheless right.
As many others have already noted, this is just a web app, and the parallels drawn to app banning are misguided on a number of fronts). What's surprising is that IBM got completely shut-out on the enterprise side of things. At the 3G release keynote, "enterprise" basically was taken to mean "Exchange," and IBM was left twiddling their thumbs. There's an IBM exec's blog that I found amusing to read (http://edbrill.com). If you thumb through the back archives and read between the lines, you can see the s*t-storm of "Why aren't you guys on iPhone" that he had to deal with, followed by a series of petulant "we didn't want to be on the iPhone in the first place" and "look how un-secure the iPhone is" posts.
I cannot understand the reason why the parent is a troll. The "application" in this case is a web application, not a native installed application.
The post, states clearly:
"Apple is allowing IBM's Lotus to be installed on iPhones. Recently it killed a developer submitted program that was deemed competitive with Apple's product."
Which is wrong. I cannot see that the parent is a "troll". IT could even be argued the actual Slashdot post is a troll (patent lie, followed by a heated "angle" to start a flamewar)
Have a nice day!
Apple didn't "a developer submitted program that was deemed competitive with Apple's product" - the did not approve an app that they felt had no difference from an existing, core application. Releasing an app, for profit, that does the exact same thing as an existing core app _should_ result in it not being approved. Something tells me that Lotus is quite dramatically different from the core apps on the iPhone which is why it was approved. Had the other developer actually _developed_ a mail app, with different features and functionality, it would have been approved.
Is it too much to ask for submission summaries that aren't so blatantly biased and inaccurate?
It is annoying that apple will just not allow any app that is not malicious, but I haven't seen a case where something useful (other than voip and other things that ATT will not allow) has been banned.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Apple still evil. FairPlay-encrypted H.264 video at 11.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
The inherent reason to allow lotus notes on the i-evil-phone is to penetrate into the corporate IT infrastructure to replace the crackberry. As most of the readers here know, IBM's Lotus Notes still hold a chunky size of enterprise messaging market, to the dismay of Redmond. By allowing Lotus notes, they are making the inroads.
Also whoever thinks Lotus notes has a better UI than any mail app, is insane in my opinion. People use Lotus notes because they have to by corporate policy. When they add it to their i-phones, it is not going to replace the use of mailapp by no means, with the exception of 3 masochistic i-phone owners. Whereas the addition of a better functioning maill front end, might force Apple to revisit theor own mail app, which means money out of Steve the conman's pocket. It is intolerable...
__________
The more I know people, the more I love animals
Sorry to say this but I don't think Lotus Notes should be considered a viable e-mail client.
I know this sounds like a troll, but I have to use it every day, and honestly trying to get raw e-mail source is a chore that no one should have to ever do.
This decision for Apple however does contradict the position for the so called small developer that had their app banned for competing.
Regards,
Ryan Pritchard
Fun Extends All Basic Life Expectancies
That means I can get my nice shiny super slick iPhone running a cluncky UI from the early 90's. Where's the install button?
Just hope they didn't forget the "Internet-Style Forward" option.
The iPhone is missing on this list. It stopped me dead in my tracks from buying any iPhone's for the office.
BTW, the preferred mechanisms for accessing Lotus Notes email when out of the office are as follows:
p.s. TWW
I'm definitely switching to Linux now...
"Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
And this is to say nothing of the poorly worded second sentence (of a two-sentence summary) which stopped me dead in my tracks:
"Recently it killed a developer..." -- wait, what?!? -- "...submitted program..." oh, whew!
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
Wernstrom: "Ladies and gentlemen, my Killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Sapere aude!
First, the summary is bad, since IBM is not selling anything through the App Store, and the "other" competitor was actually selling through the App store. Apple really needs to stop thinking they are the greatest thing ever. Let's face it, most people who have bought the iPhone are either Mac addicts, or they simple liked the all-in-one package of cell phone, GPS, iPod, PDA, game platform. That being said, some of the Apple-included applications really are lacking (aka "sucking"). The Mail application has no search capability, the Contacts applicationis still slow (although not as slow as it was originally), the Map application is definitely no Tom-Tom, and Stocks is nothing compared to Bloomberg's app (which I'm surprised they haven't band because of that).
--
Luck is just skill you didn't know you had.
That's not what I read at Ed Brill's site...
What I read was lots of iPhone fanboys screaming that there was no enterprise sync with Domino/Notes, and that this would single-handedly kill the product as Corporate America spent the next month doing nothing but throwing out all phones for iPhones, and all mail systems for Exchange.
(That's why I call them fanboys - their reasoned analysis and reaction identifies them as such to me.)
IBM's response was (and had to be) "Apple didn't approach us about it, and we can't do it on our own as the SDK as shipped doesn't have the appropriate APIs exposed".
Basically, Apple chose to work with Microsoft only when it came to synching with Enterprise systems, and IBM has little control over that.
Now, IBM had _already_ been developing the iNotes Lite system that the NY Times article refers to.
The full iNotes webmail system is pretty good, but it's also a pretty complicated web application which only ran on a couple of supported browsing platforms - all desktop. (For example, until recently, it was actually IE only, with ActiveX components.)
To give people access to the basics no matter what the (modern) browser someone was using, iNotes Lite was developed. (The betas have been shown to work on the Opera browser of a Nintendo Wii, amongst other things.)
So this wasn't even really developed specifically for the iPhone. It's just the first thing that IBM have shipped which can work on an iPhone.
IBM may or may not be working with Apple to get more native integration working on the iPhone. But given how open and public Apple are, we likely wouldn't know until it ships.
But let's be clear - the real blocker is the lack of support from Apple. This isn't specific to IBM - my understanding is that if you wanted to write something that used SyncML to synchronise an iPhone and a Funambol server, you couldn't do it either. The SDK has no documented ways of doing access to the mail/calender/to-do application storage that would allow integration, so unless you can work with Apple directly you're stuck.
What's really interesting is that IBM's marketing is now spinning it as "The iPhone wasn't secure, this is".
That could be IBM giving up on Apple and just going with what they've got. Or it could be IBM toning their public reaction down from "Apple are crap and don't want to work with us" because they are working with Apple now.
Only time will tell.
I feel pretty sorry for IBM on this whole affair. The sheer hype around the iPhone makes this somehow a major story, when in the grand scheme of things - even within the computing world - it's actually rather a non-event...
Lotus notes may have a great database or whatever, and some nice features like integrated calendars and meeting notes... but the interface sucks donkey nuts. Rotten, maggoty, herpes-infected donkey nuts.
Keyboard shortcuts and terminology are completely different from every other program out there. I mean, F5 is the standard refresh key in Windows and every other program I've used... but in Notes, F5 is the "lock interface" key. F9 refreshes. And selecting multiple items with control or shift doesn't work; you need to use the little check column. WTF, IBM?
Instead of all the options being in one place, different options and configuration screens are accessed through completely different menus, with no logic as to which option is available in which menu. WTF, IBM?
Notes insists on putting that stupid email header with a picture and scroll boxes on every fracking email. I guess it's designed to look like stationery, or like a formal memo. But that fancy header takes 800 bytes. And when you replicate that over a chain of emails with quoted history, it starts taking up a good bit of space. WTF, IBM?
And speaking of quoting emails... trimming quoted emails is a major pain in the ass. Say you want to trim the ten quoted emails down to two, because your idiot coworkers don't... if you accidentally move the mouse just a little bit, and highlight beyond the magical invisible point in the quoted text, it selects all of the quoted material, and there's no way to back up other than starting over. WTF, IBM?
There's no way to just delete the attachment on emails in your inbox, so they sit there cluttering up space. I know you can download the attachment, but you can't save the email in with the rest of them. I want to be able to delete the attachment and keep the email in my inbox. And please delete the attachment automatically with replies... I'm tired of seeing the 3mb file I emailed out turning up in every one of the seven replies. Is that too much to ask?
The meek may inherit the earth, but the strong shall take the stars.
There is the iPhone enterprise developer program where any business can write and run all the apps on the phones as they see fit.
It's just a web app. did you guys even bother to read? I realize you wouldn't have anything to bitch about if you acknowledged that it's a web app, but still. Try reading.
Per the CNet story linked to below, IBM is working on an iPhone application for Lotus Notes, called Traveler. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10053844-37.html I played around a little with the ultralight webapp, it is ok, but still buggy.
MailWrangler didn't get banned for being "competitive," per se. It was because it "duplicated the functionality" of MobileMail. Ditto for Podcaster duplicating the iPod app.
The legitimate, user-positive argument Apple would likely make is they want the device to be easy to use and not confusing, such that there's no compelling reason to have a million different music players or Mail apps when theirs are great.
It's misleading to describe Apple's motivations as being anti-competive. Nobody knows that they're thinking. And they seem hellbent on not explaining themselves.
It is, of course, totally and completely stupid for Apple not to address these questions directly, be more clear about what will or won't be allowed, and to allow both MailWrangler and Podcaster on the store. It's just dumb, dumb, dumb.
What a dumb, misleading title for an article. Well, welcome to the anti-Apple bandwagon /.
Seems funny that this "story" is being presented the way that it is. Lotus Notes on an iPhone is a web app through the browser, this has absolutely nothing to do with the App Store, as is implied by the twit writing the story about the article. Apple has nothing to do with allowing or disallowing Lotus Notes to run since it's not an app in the app store.
More fucking hate...
I mean, a WHOLE lot more. I fail to really see the "competitor" thing where a Gmail checker is concerned, frankly.
When I used Notes it was awful, and I hated it, but certainly there are many uses for it besides checking email, and I'm sure there are substantial requests for Notes for the iPhone that will drive iPhone option, as opposed to a Gmail app that does really repeate what's built into Mobile Mail.
iPhone isn't done until Lotus won't run!
You know, I bought an iPhone a month and a half ago. Before I left the mall with it, it dropped two calls on me, failed to connect to a couple web sites, and failed to let me into my email.
I returned it. Then I bought a BlackBerry Curve. The BlackBerry is better than the Treo I was replacing in almost every way. And while the web browser clearly isn't as smooth as the iPhone's browser, the BlackBerry is terrifically easy to navigate. Oh, and I don't have to make excuses for a poorly-implemented on-screen keyboard. I love the BlackBerry keyboard.
Sensationalism is not good guys, plus let's face it, even if it was an iPhone app, comparing a decision on Apple's side for a product with zero licenses to another with 140 million is kind of misleading.
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why has slashdot turned into an apple bashing party? I hate this site because the only apple news they ever post is negative. weeks will go by with NO apple news because they are waiting to post the next BAD apple story. You guys are really ridiculous.
who knew there were so many different way to point out someone is wrong.
What if Tetris was invented by Nazis?
Notes is a great platform for corporate apps. But any corp worth their salt is running their remote users through a VPN tunnel of some kind. So you'd need to run that tunnel or VPN dialer or tokenized app on the iPhone as well.
UP how people who talk about Lotus products just say "Lotus", and say it as if ONLY Lotus 1-2-3 is Lotus' only product. These same types of people do the SAME thing with Notes. Even though IBM/Lotus has a very diminutive place in the market, there (according to IBM) still are some 10 millions licensed clients of SmartSuite out there. That alone means these submitters and these moderator/admins need to get it in their heads that it would really be helpful to correct summaries.
RESEARCH the SUMMARY content to ensure that there is not any ambiguity. Why? Well, I'm someone who is ALWAYS on the lookout for new word about Lotus Smart Suite being updated, made Open Source/GPL-friendly or ported/rebuilt for Linux native running. I KNOW the Lotus car won't be on the iPhone. But it's plausible that Symphony (the SmartSuite wannabe that has a long way to go to catch up to the comfort and feel of SmartSuite as we S/S users would like it to be...) could be released for iPhone use. Pessimists could feel "Lotus on iPhone? Oh, then *probably* mean Notes". But, why can't the admins (who are vaunted/revered but subject to being reviled) just stop or filter the trash-ass summaries and story titles? Is it laziness, or is it for sensationalism? Or, is it both?
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
"Let me check my business for non published interfaces: Lotus notes, check; MS office, check; MS Windows, check; Cisco phone system, check; non standards VPN, check;"
Then, Spock-like, he says, "Gorn tele-bomb? THEY'VE *LOCKED ONTO* MY *TRICORDER*" (Hurls tricorder to what he hopes is a safe blast radius while ducking behind low berm...)... "FASCInating in their methodology, those illogica fasci..."
(effects) PEEEJUUUUU (Gorn wide-field disruptor blast)
Fade/wipe-out/lost communicator signal/lost visual/lost subcutaneous transponder/lost bio-signatures.....
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Granted the presentation of this post is a bit trollish
A "bit"? It's an outright lie.
he's nonetheless right
No he isn't. The summary says Lotus can be "installed" on an iPhone. It's a web app. Nothing is installed. He's wrong.
Free Hans!
Keyboard shortcuts and terminology are completely different from every other program out there. I mean, F5 is the standard refresh key in Windows and every other program I've used... but in Notes, F5 is the "lock interface" key. F9 refreshes. And selecting multiple items with control or shift doesn't work; you need to use the little check column. WTF, IBM?
Fixed in version 8. You can now select documents using CTRL and shift keys. Not sure about the refresh, cause I never use that function because it refreshes automatically when I get new mail.
Instead of all the options being in one place, different options and configuration screens are accessed through completely different menus, with no logic as to which option is available in which menu. WTF, IBM?
Kind of fixed in Notes 8. There are so many options available, client, mail, locations, sametime, etc, etc. But in Notes 8 you have all the options available under File -> Preferences. The downside is that you get a new window with so many subsections, that have their own subsections and then some more that you easily get lost or have a hard time finding that particular option. Progress has been made in this area but it is still too complex. Having said that, I'm not sure how they can do this better as the amount of options (mail, client, etc, etc) are just too much for 1 program.
Notes insists on putting that stupid email header with a picture and scroll boxes on every fracking email. I guess it's designed to look like stationery, or like a formal memo. But that fancy header takes 800 bytes. And when you replicate that over a chain of emails with quoted history, it starts taking up a good bit of space. WTF, IBM?
There is no header picture in Notes e-mail. There is a field in notes that points to an image in your mail file. It is something in the form of "header_picture=5". The notes client then locates the image corresponding with this number 5 and displays an image. The header image works only on an internal lotus network and external e-mail will not have an extra jpeg attached to dispay the header. This has been the case since I used notes (version 4)
There's no way to just delete the attachment on emails in your inbox, so they sit there cluttering up space. I know you can download the attachment, but you can't save the email in with the rest of them. I want to be able to delete the attachment and keep the email in my inbox. And please delete the attachment automatically with replies... I'm tired of seeing the 3mb file I emailed out turning up in every one of the seven replies. Is that too much to ask?
It is possible to delete the attachment from an e-mail. No there is no easy button/option but if you open the e-mail in edit mode then you can delete the attachments. You can also create programs that remove all attachments from an e-mail. I use a program that removes the attachment from the e-mail and stores it in a the same folder structure on my HD as I have my folder structure in my mail box. In Notes 8, by default the reply function will not include attachments, I hope that answers your questions.
What power has law where only money rules.
IBM made a web page. Someone else submitted an app to the App Store. How are these things even remotely connected?
Seriously, this is the worst Slashdot "story" since... well, probably yesterday.
[F9] has been Lotus's Refresh key since 1-2-3 r1. It's consistent in their world. I don't have Excel/Win in front of me (working on my Mac), but I think [F9] is the Refresh key in Excel too (well, Recalculate, anyway).
There is no header picture in Notes e-mail. There is a field in notes that points to an image in your mail file. It is something in the form of "header_picture=5". The notes client then locates the image corresponding with this number 5 and displays an image. The header image works only on an internal lotus network and external e-mail will not have an extra jpeg attached to dispay the header. This has been the case since I used notes (version 4)
Didn't know that... but still, it's annoying and dumb-looking.
The meek may inherit the earth, but the strong shall take the stars.
"Reading comprehension problems"?
Well, the best way to get someone understanding your point is of course to insult them. Preferably anonymously, as that way you definitely have the moral high ground.
That aside, yes, ActiveSync is a bonus for Apple when integrating. IBM should have something like ActiveSync - and should have had it some time ago.
However, there's a flip side: Domino is an application platform.
Getting data out of an NSF on a Domino server via HTTP is trivial - IBM could probably create the necessary views and agents to provide data for synchronising within a matter of days. The only part missing once that's done is the new message notification, which would likely require an amendment to the HTTP server itself - a point release of the Domino Server would fix that.
This isn't a technologically difficult issue. ActiveSync or no ActiveSync, the simple fact is that Apple never even approached IBM when considering the enterprise - despite the fact that IBM's Domino/Notes is estimated to have around 48% of enterprise messaging seats.
The lack of an equivalent technology to ActiveSync may have influenced that - but what exactly was stopping Apple from even asking? We've been told that they didn't. I find it difficult to believe that was just because there was no ActiveSync - Apple didn't even phone IBM to ask them if they could provide such a thing.
If Apple wanted integration with Domino/Notes, I think they could have had it. IBM would like it, but Apple's SDK doesn't allow it, so their hands are tied.
I'd like IBM to have an ActiveSync equivalent. As I've described, it needn't be that difficult for them.
But I don't see that it would have helped here - Apple made their decision, and that's that.
So Steve Jobs has become the new Bill Gates. Steve is a brilliant designer, unlike Gates but like Gates he has way to much OCD for my taste.
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