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"Netbooks" Move Up In Notebook Rankings
Ian Lamont writes "For the first time, a list of popular notebook reviews shows three 'netbooks' in the top 10. The netbooks use Intel's Atom processor. Notebookreview.com's editor says there has never been more than one netbook in its monthly ratings. The reason for the netbooks' sudden popularity no doubt relates to the price and basic functionality, but there's a catch. Despite calling Atom a 'high-performance' chip, Intel cautions people not to confuse netbooks with notebooks, as netbooks will be unable to take on video editing or other processor-intensive tasks. This leads to the question of how netbooks will be able to handle demanding Web apps — or whether Web apps will have to be slimmed down to accommodate millions of netbook owners."
This is sort of like comparing these netbooks to that Apple sub-notebook that has only one USB port and a power port, no other externally accessible I/O devices. Except that these netbooks are affordable and that Apple thing is, well, for yuppies to show off at the cafe.
McCain/Palin '08. Now THAT's hope and change!
We can only hope that the popularity of netbooks will slim down web apps and speed up JavaScript implementations. There's so much bloat that some websites feel slow (after fully loading of course) on my Core 2 Duo with 2GB of RAM. That's just unacceptable and we can all reap the benefits if netbooks lower the performance expectations of web developers. Nowadays hardware is cheaper than good development, but a little extra development can go a long way.
I paid 1600 dollars for my vaio sr series and 350 for my eee....I love what asus has done to the market!
Vaginas are tasty.
Hairy ones, however, are gross.
The listed top 10 are hardly all "netbooks". Acer Aspire One is the best of the bunch IMO; and the fact that you can customize (even Mac OS X ?) to your heart's content, gets added brownie points. Most popular Linux OS can be easily installed on the aspire one if Linpus doesn't cut it for you. Here is a list of "hacks" (whatever you wanna call it) http://www.linuxhaxor.net/2008/09/27/30-cool-acer-aspire-one-hacks/
I ride a bus about an hour to work and back each day. I've tried bringing a laptop, to see if I can't get some productivity out of that 2 hours, but the regular 15" laptops are too big and heavy for me. I was looking at the sub-13" laptops, but those were always uber premium executive toys with the high prices to match. I'm thinking a netbook is just what I need. Hey, for $350 I can afford to buy one and not be out too much cash if it turns out not to be what I'm looking for.
The problem isn't if Netbooks can handle web apps, it is the question of if they are usable on a tiny screen. For example, Google maps, though "usable" usually requires me to zoom out a bit on Firefox 3, go to fullscreen mode, and hide the sidebar in order for me to use it on my EEE (701, 4G Surf running eeeXubuntu).
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
I'll bet you can actually do video editing just fine on the Atom. I certainly had no trouble editing video years ago on a 650mhz cpu with Adobe Premiere 6. Of course, there's probably no way you could run the latest Adobe premiere on a netbook, but then again, they haven't really added anything to the software in the past 8 years other than bloat.
FWIW, the rankings are based on click counts to the reviews of laptops on the site mentioned in the OP. It has nothing to do with actual sales.
Over time, computers have become more and more powerful. And people always find uses for the additional power. If anyone tells you that we "don't need more power", ignore them.
But the netbooks show that there is a solid niche for people doing basic tasks wherever they want to go. I love going to small local espresso shops, and enjoying some sort of coffee drink while reading Slashdot. Even my OLPC XO is adequate for this, let alone an Atom-powered netbook. If anyone tells you that netbooks "aren't powerful enough", ignore them.
In fact, netbooks are powerful and have huge screens compared to PDAs and phones, and web sites shouldn't ignore PDAs and phones either. All the major web sites need a three screen strategy: their sites should work on TVs for living-room users, the site should work on PCs, and their sites should work on phones.
P.S. I was amused by the example from the summary. Video editing? Oh noes, my netbook is underpowered for video editing. How many people thought otherwise?
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
My main worry about these netbooks is video decoding. I have had trouble decoding flash video on a few years old. The same holds true for the HD like movies with DRM. I know that the primary use of these machines is not to watch video, but you know it will become a dominant use. The net book makers should learn from the mistakes Apple made in the late 90's and the class action lawsuits from the DVD player that almost worked.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
I've always been a fan of the "subnotebook." I had the first model of the Toshiba Libretto, the size of VHS cassette, circa 1998. The odd person would laugh at its size, but meanwhile I was using it at restaurants, comfortably on a plane while eating a meal, and so forth.
(One time on a plane the stewardess pointed at my lap and said, "wow, that's the smallest one of those I've ever seen!" Man, did she ever turn red when she realized how that sounded. I held up the laptop to make it quite clear what she was referring to :S)
When Toshiba announced a new version of the Libretto, I jumped on buying one. Updated specs, wifi, bluetooth, 2ghz, yadda, yadda, yadda. I even bought the three year SystemGuard with it; even if a drink spilled on it, they would cover me.
Unfortuantely, I had a few hardware problems with it, post warrantee, but within the 3-year system guard. I had it to two different service depots, where it sat for months. When I got it back, nothing was done to it. Dropped it off again. The bluetooth and wifi weren't working. The DVD dock never did work right. I wrote a frustrated noted to the President of Toshiba Canada, and have been playing phone tag with someone ever since, trying to get this damn laptop working again. It's a good chunk of a year I've been without it.
I see these EEE PC's kicking around for a few hundred dollars. I could have bought a few of them, with what I spent on the Libretto (and not been without a tiny laptop for months). The System Guard warrantee alone would have paid for one. If I can't get half decent service on a more expensive "subnotebook," which I mainly use for wireless web access, email, word processing, and other lightweight tasks, I might as well pick up cheap and semi-disposable netbooks.
Toshiba, if you're listening, I would love to regain my trust and dedication to your brand; when I had a big company, we bought dozens of your laptops, but I don't think I'd ever touch them again, after this terrible service experience...
If I don't get some resolution before my System Guard is up this December, I'll likely just dispose of the Libretto on eBay, and pick up an EEE PC. A sad demise for a rather pioneering legacy by Toshiba. If the EEE PC dies outside the warrantee period, I'll just grab another one, or whatever else has come out since. It really is becoming a commodity item, which I welcome.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
Anyone have ideas on what the best netbook for writing code would be? All of the reviews look at them from the perspective of web browsers, media viewer and document viewer/writers. I'm more interested in a super-portable machine for writing code and using as a remote desktop viewer.
To me the Dell Mini 9 has the best specs as far as build quality, features and price but while the keyboard is nice and "large" (relatively) it puts the braces {} and brackets [] plus some others in very awkward places that seem like it would make code editing a pain. I wish you could buy the discounted Linux version with a webcam (even if it won't work in Linux).
Next on my list would be the Lenovo S10 but it's a bit more expensive and uses a hard-drive instead of SSD. Seems like a better keyboard layout but the keyboard itself has a cheap/poor feel.
Neither of those two have very good battery life. Not what I would expect from something that uses so little power. Plus they all could benefit from a higher vertical resolution (or a rotatable screen).
The ratio of people to cake is too big
is the 1024x600 resolution of these netbooks. A lot of website and webapps are designed for a minimum of 1024x768. Those missing pixels do make a difference ....
If your modern web apps can't run on a 1.6Ghz dual core or hyperthreaded CPU. then I think I'll blame the web apps and not the CPU. Does the Internet have to be this hard? What sort of supercomputer tasks does it take to render an interactive webpage?
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
But only about 10-20% slower on integer code.
No sig today...
> This leads to the question of how netbooks will be able to handle demanding Web apps
Which leads to the answer "Yes, of course they can. They can run full versions of OSes like Ubuntu - why can't they run a script language like Javascript, or display video/animations like Flash?"
Acer provides shockingly bad support, but fortunately there are independent forums where you can go for help. I'm using mine to learn about Linux for the first time and I'm quite enjoying it.
I'm using an Eee PC 701 every day for coding and server maintenance. These little things are great for that. Mine is of course all tricked out with 2GB RAM, 16GB SD card and Mandriva Linux. You won't be sorry if you get yourself a new 901 and Mandriva fully supports it.
I'm a college student. My netbook is used mostly to take notes during class, and to check email between classes (and occasionally during class, if it's an especially boring class.)
:P Though, I will note that it's plenty good enough to load Youtube so I can keep up with my buddies on the latest viral video. However, my screen is just a LITTLE too small for when I'm trying to watch porn on redtube.... no joke, the height of the video is more than my browser window can accommodate without scrolling. (Sigh.)
I don't need a super computer here
There were no examples cited of "demanding" web apps. I can't think of a single commonly used webapp that is "demanding" enough for a netbook to show weakness.
Could someone point me in the right direction?
I am planning on getting one myself maybe next year. I love the Eee Box especially with Xubuntu on it and I have been very happy with it. I am leaning more towards the Dell netbook as It comes preloaded with my favorite OS Ubuntu.
The real advantage to these netbooks is travelling around with them to give talks. You know, on those projectors they have everywhere.
The ones that
DISPLAY XGA NATIVELY.
I'm sorry, I get a little emotional. To have the perfect solution for travelling and giving talks, but then have to resort to moving the mouse on the WVGA screen so I can see what the audience is seeing at the bottom of my slide.
It's one thing to do it cheap, but I'd rather wait for the fine folks at IBM/Lenovo make a shot at making one with quality. Asus and such seem to just cut corners wherever and hope you don't notice.
As for the ratings:
Hopefully they do the right thing and separate them into their own category. Netbooks have done enough damage to kill off S-IPS and reduce quality.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Plus they all could benefit from a higher vertical resolution (or a rotatable screen).
I don't know if this is widely known, but the Asus Eee PC (at least the 901, the first Atom processor model) has a "rotatable screen," at least in the software sense. Hit Ctrl-Alt-RightArrow and it goes into portrait mode. Hit Ctrl-Alt-DownArrow and it will even flip upside-down. Unfortunately, it's pretty difficult to use in these modes because the screen itself has no pivot. The fact that the touchpad doesn't change orientation makes it doubly difficult. It is handy for viewing certain kinds of documents, however.
That said, I don't think I'd recommend an Eee PC for any kind of serious coding. The braces and brackets are in the right places, but the keyboard is unbearably small for most people. I can type on it well enough, and I've used it to compose long documents, but I do not recommend it to other people sight-unseen. Worse, the Atom processor really is poky, and the solid-state drives perform poorly. I imagine that compiling something on the scale of a Linux kernel on a Eee PC would be pretty arduous and frustrating.
If I were you, I'd look into more traditional subnotebooks if you want a small laptop for coding. I've been very happy with models from Fujitsu in the past -- you don't find them in stores often, but Fujitsu makes a quality product. Mine took to Linux effortlessly. Sony also makes some very nice small machines, but I am suspicious of them because of Sony's poor track record with hardware support (short product lifespan, lots of proprietary drivers that can't be duplicated, etc). Panasonic might have something for you, also -- in any event, if you'll be running compilers I think you'll find that a more traditional processor and standard hard drives are what you'll want.
Breakfast served all day!
I have been looking at both the new HP netbook, as well as the Acer One. I just can't get myself to buy one. I have been thinking about it because I currently carry my Dell D630 (Desktop replacement...kinda) and 3 Compaq EVOs when doing Pen testing. It would be nice to carry about 3 or 4 of the netbooks, but I need processing power, as well as lots of memory, so any opinions on how they perform in such a situation?
"My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
Learn how to use a remote control app and run it on your desktop from wherever you and your netbook is. The reason why your netbook is small, light, and cheap is that it doesn't have the CPU or storage to run demanding apps like video editing.
Despite this, I'm fairly happy with my Linux eeePC.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Asus eeepc1000. I'm using the one with the hard drive. It's a solidly built machine with a 10" screen and a battery life which is about double that of the nearest competitor. They're going for $460 on some order sites.
If you can live with a slightly smaller screen and if battery life isn't terribly important, then the Aspire One looks like a pretty great deal with a lot of happy users and an 8Gb SSD.
I find writing on the eee1000H really easy. Nice, big keyboard, and a decent screen size. If the machine were any bigger and it wouldn't be comfortable or easy to use, any smaller, it would feel limiting. (I've owned a couple of other small machines over the years, and I find a good screen size is vital for comfort in writing; I don't know how it is for coding, but I find I need to see more than just the immediate line of text I'm working on to write effectively. SSD seems like a good idea, but the laptop hard drive in the Asus works just fine. A friend of mine dropped one while it was playing a video and it didn't skip a beat. --Though I don't know if that would be such a good idea if it was trying to write at the time, but then I don't drop my hardware.
-FL
Run a USB powered hard drive from a USB port with too little current and the drive will start clicking as it malfunctions. It can fail to start up after that. Data cannot be recovered.
Which brand of USB-powered hard drive fails to cleanly shut down on insufficient current, so that I can buy the competitor?
Intel keeps saying that it's Atom processors aren't heavy duty, but I think that's marketing spin to avoid taking the bottom out of the market for the more profit-laden processors.
I recently compared the Eee PC to my laptop. The Eee PC was able to calculate prime numbers at about 90% of the rate of my existing three-year old laptop. So, on a processor-to-processor comparison, they are about even. But the Eee PC also has three years of better hard drive, bus, and memory technology, and I expect it to fully whoop my laptop there.
Basically, I view these netbooks as having the same power as a 2-3 year old average laptop, but in a smaller form factor.
The ASUS Eee 900's keyboard is acceptable for coding.
If you are serious about coding, I strongly recommend that you invest in one of the more expensive full-featured machines. I found that the best option on the Aspire One was to kill X and use virtual consoles, but vi and the Linux command line wont be everyone's ideal development environment. The keyboard on the Aspire is quite usable, but the trackpad sucks bigtime. The other area where the Aspire shines is in the role of dedicated database and web server during development, assuming you aren't dealing with terabytes of data, and mine sits on my desk doing exactly that 8-plus hours a day. My requirements are modest, but given that you can set up a fully-fledged Java development environment - database, app server, IDE, kitchen sink - on a midrange laptop, its difficult to recommend the little guys for coding.
Acer and Asus are doing great. MSI Wind is also nice. I'm only slightly disappointed to see all those netbooks still requiring a fan for cooling, and still achieving about 2.5 - 3 hours of battery life.
I could settle for a much slower processor, if that would mean a cool, slim and silent machine that would also run for 8 hours on battery.
I mean really, isn't it basically a reader / typewriter? If some websites may get slow, so be it.
I think there is a market for two varieties of netbooks: "long play, cool" ones, and "high power, hot" ones.
If a web app demands significant performance from your local processor, comparable to video editing, then it sure as hell is unlikely to be portable and cross-platform. It's got no business being deployed at all.
You are wrong to compare the MacBook Air to these mini notebooks. While the toy-sized machines are limited performance wise and only suitable for mobile use, the MBA offers almost the same performance, keyboard and screen size than MacBook while being slim and light at the same time. This does at least account for the biggest part of the price difference. And you get Mac OS X, which for some people is the real value.
As Intel tried to implement with the Celeron: the innovator's dilemma is that if you don't cannibalise your own market, your competitors will.
"rich user experience"? They sound like Microsoft, and I'm afraid about as believable. The phrase sounds like an ad for Vista. A "sparse user experience" is a feature. Netbooks are just utterly compelling objects. Even the Eee, with its tiny keyboard and 800x480 screen. Anyone who's used one will laugh directly in the face of someone vaguely wibbling about the lack of a "rich user experience." No-one will care until stuff becomes famous for not working on these things.
What practical activities are they thinking of that can't be done on a netbook? Be specific.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
I've got this idea for local apps: natively compiled code that runs independently of a browser.
But then you have to maintain three parallel versions for the three most common notebook platforms: Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux. Besides, unlike the JavaScript engine of a web browser, these operating systems out of the box do not run natively compiled code in a tight enough sandbox, so a misbehaving native client can disclose or overwrite all the files in /home/ceoyoyo or \Documents and Settings\ceoyoyo or whatever.
The answer is Microsoft and Intel. Both have tried to define this new product category that neither particularly wanted after the fact by telling their OEMs that they would be punished if they didn't fall into line and put limits on them. Microsoft wanted to limit them by RAM and screen size while Intel tried to set a limit of using only their own on-board graphics that came with the Atom platform.
The OEMs initially complied and then Asus, which is both a brand name as well as an OEM, broke ranks and went with multi gig RAM and now apparently Atom platforms are going out with third party graphics solutions and larger screens. So the attempt to control this new product category and keep it clearly separate from the notebook looks bound to fail.
A question for ya all, who inhere actually uses "webapps"? I'm not going to be using a webbased version of Word or any such crap, hell, i don't even know any decent webapps at all.
Gotta put in the requisite "why is this news?" reply...
So some website registers the most hits on its web pages of netbooks, and suddenly Slashdot declares that "Netbooks move up in notebook rankings"? I'm sure it's a valid headline, but at least back it up with a real ranking (eg sales numbers), and not the number of hits on a website. By that metric, Rick Astley should be this year's top artist.
My eee 901 runs web apps just fine. In fact it runs Reason 4 just fine (occasional hiccups, but my desktop does that too). The only thing I have a problem with on a regular basis is compression and decompression of files (atom is horrible at this stuff). I think Intel has to be purposely underestimating the power of atom because they know we are going to get in there and test it to the limits and comment on its limited functionality. The truth is that atom gives you 100% of the functionality you need 99% of the time.
I edited video on a G3 900 ibook. Is it better on core2duo Macbook, or my G5 tower, yes. But editing non HD video is possible on what today is considered low spec hardware. The cool thing about that to me is I can buy very nice hardware used now that suits all my needs as a power user graphic designer, web developer, so no complaints.
I don't need a netbook, BTW if I really need portable web surfing and to dash off an e-mail my itouch will do the trick, OTH if I need more power then it's the Macbook. To me the netbook is a solution in search of a problem and more of a fashion accessory than a true elegant solution to a real problem.
Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?
Dell moved the apostrophe key to the bottom row, which pretty much broke the deal on the Mini 9 for. I don't know what kind of coding you do, but I use the apostrophe and quotation mark TONS.
See here for a closeup: http://www.medicthree.com/2008/10/remapping-dell-mini-9-inspiron-910.html