Slashdot Mirror


Lessig's "In Defense of Piracy"

chromakey writes "The Wall Street Journal is running an essay from Lawrence Lessig about the fair use of copyrighted material on the Internet. He makes the case that companies who go to extreme lengths to squash minor videos, such as Universal, are stifling creativity in the modern era. Lessig makes specific reference to a YouTube video that was hit by a DMCA takedown notice, in which a 13-month-old child is dancing to a nearly inaudible soundtrack of Prince's 'Let's Go Crazy.' Lawrence Lessig is a board member for the Electronic Frontier Foundation."

20 of 218 comments (clear)

  1. Should be happy. by Gerafix · · Score: 4, Funny

    They should be happy they weren't charged for child pornography because of the dancing child. Somebody didn't think of the children?

    1. Re:Should be happy. by Ortega-Starfire · · Score: 5, Funny

      Stop thinking about the children, you pedophile!

      --
      ---- Liquid was a patriot ----
  2. What's particularly interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Is that this was written by Thomas Jefferson, and Lessig just republished it under his name. Yes, Thomas Jefferson knew about YouTube 200 years before it was invented.

  3. Lessig still defends copyright by CRCulver · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Even though Lessig wants to change the length of copyright and ensure fair use, he still believes that the concept should be enshrined in law. That makes his status as a hero here on Slashdot odd, because many posters here have claimed that copyright is simply no longer a valid concept at all in the digital era.

    1. Re:Lessig still defends copyright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The obvious point is that he is still championing change, while most of us just sit on our butts and complain. Regardless of our views on just how much more change should be ushered in, you have to respect his efforts.

      As a sidenote, my captcha is 'copying'.

    2. Re:Lessig still defends copyright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why, it's almost as if there's a spectrum of opinions on /. from disparate individuals that are merely communicating in a shared forum!

    3. Re:Lessig still defends copyright by zappepcs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In fact, I think you have something. If only the sound track in the example were posted to Youtube, would it have been infringement? Would anyone have listened to it? I posit that it would have been useless without the little dancing kid, and therefore is a 'new' work based loosely on impressions from Prince's work, and thus required some semblance of his work to create the second and 'new' work.

      How much profit should go to prince? None. He got free advertising and possibly should pay a royalty to the second artist. After all, if it weren't for the video there would only be 4 people thinking of Prince's music... 3 if you don't count him, or something like that.

      The "time limit of popularity" has passed. His music is not on the charts anymore so using it is not unfairly drawing off his work to garner profit or popularity. In fact, it can be argued that he garnered popularity because of this second work. Once that "time limit" passes, copyright is arguably invalid.

    4. Re:Lessig still defends copyright by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The way I think about it is like this - copyright was essentially invented to stop someone from killing your market for your stuff. (temporarily)

      If you record a song and someone else manufactures copies of your song and sells them, they are killing your market.

      If someone samples your song and uses a 3-second blip of sound to create their own work and sells it, there's no way in hell they are killing your market.

      NOBODY has ever decided not to buy a pop CD because they already have a recording of their aunt singing the song in a karaoke bar.

      --
      This space available.
    5. Re:Lessig still defends copyright by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes, that's true, but thanks to moderation, you don't have to wade through them all, making up your own mind and forming complex, balanced opinions. The moderators have your thinking for you! You will only have to view the top one or two most popular types of opinions on any given topic!

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  4. Why should everything bring a profit? by mangu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why do media companies think that any use of media should be paid for?

    Suppose farmers acted like that. They grow grain to sell, but their plants create oxygen from carbon dioxide gas as a side effect. Oxygen is a valuable commodity, it's sold in bottles for many uses: hospitals, aviators, steel-cutting, etc. But farmers are sensible enough to know that it would be totally impractical to try to charge for the oxygen their plants release into the atmosphere.

    Media companies should grow up and accept the same fact for their productions. Copyrights should be enforced in movie theatres, someone sneaking into a theatre to watch a movie without paying is somewhat like someone stealing grain from a farmer. But trying to charge for every little use of their media is like a farmer trying to charge for the oxygen their plants release into the atmosphere the same price industrial gas distributors charge for bottled oxygen.

    1. Re:Why should everything bring a profit? by qw0ntum · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't believe "added value" is a myth.

      When I buy food in a restaurant, the chef adds value to the ingredients by preparing them in a knowledgable way. I find more value in, and am willing to pay more for, a fine dinner than I am for a fish and some vegetables. The end product has more value than its constituent parts because of the valuable skills the chef used to create it.

      Value is not inherent in anything. Human creativity and ingenuity versus our needs creates value. Iron is not valuable to a stone age society. It becomes highly valuable once they possess the skill to use it in a way that helps meet their needs.

      Another example. The hard drive in your computer is more valuable to you than other hard drives or the $30 (approx) it cost to manufacture because it holds data that is presumably important to you on it. So, it is more valuable than its constituent components. And it's not any more valuable to me than another hard drive, because I don't have any interest in the data on it.

      So, I humbly disagree that value can't be added to something already existing. I think that nothing has inherent value, and whatever value it does have (financially or otherwise) is placed upon it us. But that's just my philosophical point of view.

      --
      'Every story, if continued long enough, ends in death.' --Ernest Hemingway
    2. Re:Why should everything bring a profit? by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Why do media companies think that any use of media should be paid for?"

      Because the metaphor of property was allowed to run rampant, unquestioned.

      Not to flamebait or OT, but as in many things, rms was prophetic about this. He begged anyone who would listen not to use the term "intellectual property" as was widely ridiculed, as in many things.

      --
      My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
    3. Re:Why should everything bring a profit? by MBGMorden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think he misunderstood you at all - he's just saying your wrong.

      A pile of fish, vegetable, and spices in a grocery store have a general value. In their unprocessed form, they are worth little. If I go home and prepare them myself their value will increase a little because of the preparation. If a good chef does it, the value will increase much more. The finished product is worth more than the unprocessed form. To believe otherwise is to essentially reduce the value of human labor to zero - afterall if the materials had all the value at the start then after the labor has been expended in your view the value has not changed.

      Try to get by in a world where you aren't willing to pay anything for human labor. Unless you're one hell of a subsistence farmer, it's just not going to work.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    4. Re:Why should everything bring a profit? by ultranova · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Only until it becomes practical to do that. When it does, expect the market of all sorts of airs ("Wisconsin Pasture", "Vermont Forest") -- and expect people trying to sneak into the crops-covering air-collecting canopy for a sniff to get busted (deservingly).

      Well, when that day comes, those farmers better make damn sure that none of the carbon dioxide those plants consume comes from my lungs.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  5. Copyright is a means, not an end by mangu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The US Constitution says:

    The Congress shall have power ... To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries

    Copyright is constitutional only if it promotes the progress of science and useful arts.

    Now the question is *ARE* science and useful arts being promoted by copyrights? Would you say that this work is a progress over this one? If a remake was made, is the copyright in the older film still valid? Why?

    The only thing that's being promoted by copyrights is the profit of some corporations.

  6. End all copyright - it's based on flawed logic by kaltkalt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Copyright was never intended to prevent private copying for noncommercial uses. Please don't try to argue that "copying = not buying = commercial loss = commercial use" because it's a horribly disingenuous and intellectually dishonest argument. Stealing is depriving someone else of their property. Even if copying is depriving someone of a potential sale, there is no vested property right in potential sales. If so capitalism would not work, as competition would be equivalent to stealing. The makers of cars would be stealing from the makers of horsedrawn carriages. The makers of refrigerators would be stealing from ice manufacturers. The makers of calculators would be stealing from the makers of abacuses (abaci?). You get the point. I should be able to copy and read/watch/listen to/play in my own home, for my own use, any media in existence. The notion that without monopolies, creative people would not create has long been disproved. No monopolies are necessary to foster creativity. The best, most creative people will create regardless. The hacks are the ones who need monopoly protection. For example, without copyright, Neil Young would still be making music, but Brittney Spears would not. Because copyright has been so greatly abused, because it's been proven to be based on flawed logic, and because it only serves to hinder creativity and make money for those who do not deserve it, copright should be abolished completely. There should still be protection for attribution to prevent plaigariasm, in some form.

    --

    Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
  7. FYI, Lessig left the EFF board by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 4, Informative

    According to the submitter's blurb:

    Lawrence Lessig is a board member for the Electronic Frontier Foundation.

    According to TFA:

    She pressed that question through a number of channels until it found its way to the Electronic Frontier Foundation (on whose board I sat until the beginning of 2008)

  8. Well it's still going to take awhile by baggins2001 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This concept of creative common good is going to take awhile to be accepted.
    1) It has to be accepted by society.
    Many still do not understand the Open Source model. If you look at financial markets and talk to business people they don't understand how RedHat and Novell plan to make money selling free software.
    2) Those who appreciate open source, need to reward those who produce for the open market.
    Not many have gotten filthy rich from open source.
    3) Lessig is correct.
    Copyright and IP rights are probably going to be here for awhile and probably should stay. Those who publish and produced copyright and license information software are going to be here for awhile. They choose to participate in a different market. Until there is a detriment or significant benefit to participation in one type of market or another, there is always going to be a choice.
    4) Get over it
    As long as MS, Universal, .... whoever sees a benefit they are going to do what they have been doing.
    Personally, I believe this is going to bite them in the ass big time. They want an open global market and yet they want IP rights at the same time. Well guess what, you manufacture your product in Asia and you've pretty much open sourced your product. They don't like to talk about it very much, but it is a fact of what is happening.
    [ubiquitous car analogy] If you make a car and you want it made cheaply, you had better have figured out a way to make a steady income from that car. What is happening is companies are requesting certain manufacturing be done, and then all of a sudden somebody else is manufacturing the same product. They start screaming "They stole our product". Guess what get over it, by the time you finish the legal international law wrangling, there is nothing left.
    So as soon as a company accepts open source the quicker they will be able to adjust to the global market.

    --
    He who said 1,000,000 monkeys on 1,000,000 typewriters would eventually type the great novel, never saw an AOL chat room
  9. Wrong Thomas by symbolset · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It was actually Thomas McCauley in 1841.

    And yes, he considered these issues and came to the same conclusions as Mr. Lessig over 150 years ago.

    Maybe we should just do away with copyright. That would solve this problem permanently without consuming the precious resources of the courts.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  10. Re:My piracy experiment on Slashdot by bonch · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The GPL is a form of copyright licensing that attempts to enforce certain usage restrictions/requirements. I don't understand why you think the GPL would be unnecessary if we didn't have copyright. The purpose of the GPL is to ensure that changes made to something are returned to everybody, and without copyright, there would be no reason to follow the license and distribute any changes made. The GPL doesn't exist as a reaction to copyright; it requires copyright to have any power.