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Feds Target "Mongols" Biker Club's Intellectual Property
couchslug writes in with a Reuters account of a Federal raid on a California-based motorcycle club, the Mongols, on charges "ranging from murder and robbery to extortion, money laundering, gun trafficking and drug dealing." The interesting twist is that the authorities are asking the courts to seize the IP of the biker club — specifically, their trademarked name "Mongols." "Federal agents and police in seven states arrested more than 60 members of the Mongols motorcycle gang on Tuesday in a sweep that also targeted for the first time an outlaw group's 'intellectual property,' prosecutors said. The arrests cap a three-year undercover investigation in which US agents posed as gang members and their girlfriends to infiltrate the group, even submitting to polygraph tests administered by the bikers ... [T]he name 'Mongols,' which appears on the gang's arm patch insignia, was trademarked by the group. The indictment seeks a court order outlawing further use of the name, which would allow any police officer 'who sees a Mongol wearing this patch ... to stop that gang member and literally take the jacket right off his back' ..."
I'm not aware of any law that can prevent a particular logo from appearing on a jacket.
This sounds like pipe dream bullshit.
How we know is more important than what we know.
If police informants can pass and beat a polygraph in a situation where they would be killed on the spot*, then how can the same test when used against people charged with a crime is still admissible as evidence?
*if the common perception of the 1%-ers is to be belived
The indictment seeks a court order outlawing further use of the name, which would allow any police officer 'who sees a Mongol wearing this patch... to stop that gang member and literally take the jacket right off his back'..."
Some douche licker apparently never heard of the right of first sale.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Get tattoos of their logo/insignia. Get it someplace prominent and call out the cops to try and take it from them. I doubt law enforcement is going to start a collection of biker lampshades.
So we would still be able to wear swastikas, KKK logos, Iran Revolutionary Guard insignias and NWA "Fuck the Police" t-shirts, but a patch from some gang most of the world never heard of would be a crime?
Airplane Photos, Airline News, Planespotting Guides
Actually, polygraphs are inadmissable in the US court system.
I find it hard to imagine a single intellectual amongst them.
Not that it's going to amount to anything - they will still use their name, and they'll likely call themselves "The Original Mongols..." or some such nonesense...
I doubt they'd even go that far to bow the will the courts. They'll probably just keep calling themselves the plain old Mongols, and if someone disagrees or misappropriates the name, they'll probably call themselves the guys who stabbed him to death.
What would really ruin them is for someone to use their logo and release a Mongols brand sugary breakfast cereal with pink, marshmallow motorcycles.
Well, let's hypothetically accept the premise that the police and feds will be able to seize the trademark from the group as though it were originally their own. Then they could at least seek legal action against anyone who produces new jackets with the logo, on the grounds that it would infringe the police's newfound exclusive rights to use the mark to promote their own goods and services. (That's why they wanted the trademark, right? I mean, what else is a trademark good for?)
So this strategy could work, so long as the police pick up the Mongols' trademarked product line and start handing out their own Mongol-branded beatings, robberies, extortion schemes, and contraband sales. (Cue a flood of cynical responses saying that the police would merely have to rebrand their existing product line.) At the very least, they could pay lip service to IP law by selling a few Mongol coffee mugs on CafePress—maybe they could donate the proceeds to those police charities instead of bothering me with telephone solicitations.
In the US, but this is beyond the pale. There are already laws like RICO which can be used to shut down corrupt organizations.
If this is allowed to set precedent, the Feds will literally be allowed to steal a company's trademark if anyone employed by the company does something illegal. I'm reminded of the Steve Jackson Games fiasco where the Feds seized their computers because one of their employees illegally downloaded a document from AT & T that same was selling for $17. (IIRC)
I seriously doubt that seizing a gang's name is going to deter them the least. At worst, they'll just change their name. This is more about expanding the power of the Federal government than it is about law enforcement. With civil forfeiture laws extending to copyright violations, soon the day will come when police departments will shore up their budgets by seizing computers under the guise of copyright enforcement ("Can you prove that copy of Windows wasn't pirated? I didn't think so...")
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
"If police informants can pass and beat a polygraph in a situation where they would be killed on the spot*, then how can the same test when used against people charged with a crime is still admissible as evidence?"
That's because government liars are professionals.
For all of you alarmists that claimed IP regulation would be misused by the government and reach beyond trade and artistic works were totally off base. It hasn't led to rampant surveillance, corporate intimidation of citizens and small businesses, or the police indiscriminately stopping motorists and tearing the clothes off their backs. Oh crap, it has? Is it too late to change our minds?
I'm just amazed that a criminal organization would file a legal TRADEMARK.
Seriously. Were they going to SUE someone for infringement?
Live to sue, sue to live.
The one most other posters seem to be missing. This is a RICO case. Well, part of RICO is the ability to seize assets related to the criminal enterprise. So for example if a company was a front for money laundering, that company could be seized. Doesn't matter that it was the semi-legit front, since it was a part of the criminal enterprise, it is subject to seizure.
So this isn't an IP issue, that's really a small part. It would be the same thing if they brought down a company under RICO, they'd take the company's name and such. IT all falls under the idea of "You can't profit from your crime."
Growing up with bikers (I'm most certainly not, by my dad is), I can say that even the roughest bikers generally would accede to the cops. They'd rather beat the rap on technicalities than have the cops file resisting arrest or failure to stop. The Mongols will fight other gangs, but trying to get into a war with the cops is a losing proposition. In the current case, I'm sure they've already sent out a signal to those still on the streets to hide their affiliations for the moment, and let the legal process go through to determine what happens with the logo. They're criminal, but they're also pragmatic and not stupid.
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
Staying together in a group is simply advantageous tactically, and doesn't say anything about the strength or weakness of its members. Let us know how it works out the next time you go up to a lone Mara Salvatrucha member and call him a pussy.
Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
1. That's a business, not an individual.
2. It was a permanent public installation, not an item of clothing on a private person.
3. The pictures probably stayed up for weeks while the matter was being resolved. I know of nothing that would have required them to take it down immediately upon Eisener's request.
4. They technically *chose* to take it down to get Disney to drop the suit. They could have taken them to court to drag out the process for months.
If a cop saw a biker wearing the logo, he couldn't do anything there on the spot. He couldn't even issue a citation, because it's not a criminal issue.
Not only will the injunction outlawing the logo will fail spectacularly on 1st amendment grounds, but the very concept of outlawing a gang's insignia will just give the Mongols additional street cred, as they are now more-badass-than-thou.
"Our gang is so bad, our insignia is illegal. The very mention of our name will get you arrested. Think about us and you're committing a crime, brother!" Etc.
It just gives the gang additional appeal to the probable suckers who'd join a criminal biker gang in the first place.
Deep breath. Repeat after me.
I admit that I have become powerless over my frustration with those that disagree with me, my anger issues, and my self-perceived impotence regarding my ability to communicate my opinion to the "unenlightened". I acknowledge that calling people retards and swearing will not sway them to my opinion, even if I defend it well. I will not feed the trolls.
FSM, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference.
Hope that helps. Wow.
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
Wouldn't this make all law enforcement officers become official Fashion Police?
Land of the free, home of the brave ring a bell? We imposed conditions like this on defeated
Dear gods, I find myself agreeing with Twitter. Historic moment.
Somebody hand me a fork...
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
Sorry for going ad hominem on you, but the mis-use of the term 'Nazi' for 'grammar nazi' etc is bad enough.
But to imply that by creating legal countermeasures to the glorification and/or denying of the Nazi homocide, crimes, regime and lore, the German government has become the thing they are trying to prevent is so utterly and totally ignorant, stupid, demeaning, wrong and a hundred other bad and worse things it makes me wonder why you are able to remember to breathe.
You are trivializing the Third Reich and its crimes in a way I have only seen from people who are actual neo-Nazis.
The same goes, to quite some extent, to whoever modded you Insightful.
I would appreciate a reply from both you & whoever modded you in a positive way (which would eleminate some mod points in the process).
I know you are all sheltered nerds and everything, but this isn't about IP, or any such silly thing. For a biker, his gang patch/colors is damn near sacrosanct. The cops know this, and by being able to just take it anytime they want, its a form of humiliation. It like taking a persons of faiths cross/hijab/torah whatever just because.
When I was younger and worked in fire/rescue, we were actually trained to NEVER take a bikers jacket off in an emergency without permission from the biker or if he was unconscious his friends. Yes, they were that rabid about it. This is about humiliation, and the cops rubbing salt in the wound, to let them know whose boss. For guys who value independence and strength, its a big deal. HUMILATION, not IP or law enforcement. I for one find this very disturbing. Since when is it the polices job to humiliate and degrade people because of their affiliations? Oh wait.