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Magnetic Levitating Trains Get Go-Ahead In Japan

An anonymous reader writes "They've been on the drawing board for 40 years but the politicos have finally approved routes for the 500kph maglev trains to replace bullet trains." I wonder if they'll let me test out maglev rollerblades on the track.

21 of 425 comments (clear)

  1. The US already has a maglev by AnEducatedNegro · · Score: 5, Informative

    Our university has had this technology on our campus for almost 10 years now. If you're wondering how it works check out Dr Lawrence Weinstein's page on maglevs. Our current problem is vibration which makes riding at any speed intolerable. AEN

    1. Re:The US already has a maglev by jmichaelg · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Japanese have solved the vibration problem along with a host of others. There have been a few other problems that crept up like quenching and the not insignificant problem of cost.

      Quenching appears in magnets when they're jiggled enough that the atoms lose their orientation and the material stops being magnetic. According to their blog, that happened to them at least once a few years back (around 2001-2002). At the time, one of the American inventors, Jim Powell, told me that his partner and co-inventor of superconducting maglev, Gordon Danby, thought that the Japanese had not used pure enough aluminum. Using purer aluminum, of course, drives up the already high cost of the technology.

      Contrary to what you might think, the roadbed is not magnetic as that would have made the cost far too high. Instead, they line the roadbed with aluminum plates that become magnetic in the presence of a moving magnetic field. The magnetic field is provided by superconductors on the train. When the train is moving slowly, it runs on rubber tires as the roadbed can't generate enough lift to support the train.

      Cost has been the key factor that his stalled this technology. I've seen cost estimates as high as almost $1 billion/mile. The Tokyo-Osaka link was estimated at $200 billion. This proposal coming in at $50 billion for the short route from Tokyo to Nagoya of 160 miles is saying they can build it at .3 $billion/mile. The detours, of course, will drive the cost up as well as slow the train down.

      So if nothing else, the Japanese will provide the world with real data for both construction and operating costs. Their test bed already provides lots of interesting video. Best part is at 5:30.

  2. Re:good idea, maybe the island is to small for it by Finallyjoined!!! · · Score: 2, Informative

    i'm sure we westerners will steal the technology

    Umm, look up "Eric Laithwaite".

    --
    If I had an Ass, I'd call it Fanny Bottom, then I could slap my Ass; Fanny Bottom, on the Arse.
  3. Re:Efficiency by bdenton42 · · Score: 5, Informative

    From http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/transportation/4232548.html?page=2 they appear to be saying maglev is about 36% the energy cost of airplanes and about 43% of conventional trains.

  4. Stupid blog post is slashdotted by level4 · · Score: 5, Informative

    And I hate those stupid blog stories anyway.

    Here's a real article with actual information:

    http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nb20081022a1.html

    --
    Let my new 7-digit UID be a lesson to all - write down your passwords.
  5. Re:Efficiency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    A maglev train is supposed to compare favorably with other high-speed rail systems.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transrapid#Energy_requirements

    Braking also generate electricity back on the power grid.

  6. Re:Rollerblades + zero friction.... right! by Enki+X · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's "Jiggawatts!"

    --
    On second thought, let's not go to the internet. 'Tis a silly place.
  7. Meanwhile, in California, by gmor · · Score: 3, Informative

    we have a ballot measure this November to borrow $10 billion dollars (and receive matching amounts from fed) to build a bullet train line half a century after the Japanese did it. According to the planners, maglev was rejected because there are no large-scale deployments. Why do we never get to leapfrog technology in the US?

  8. For all ye Americans out there.. by Piranhaa · · Score: 3, Informative

    500 kph(km/h) = 310.685596 mph

  9. Re:Efficiency by FurtiveGlancer · · Score: 2, Informative

    I would imagine the train wins hands down. Electrical generation is more efficient than jet engine thrust, being a more closed system vs the jet engine. Even early maglev systems (Disney) had been shown to be fairly energy efficient with computerized control of power distribution.

    Don't forget to account for the share of costs of the ATC system of radars, centers and towers to track and route the jet. This would significantly outweigh the cost of similar systems for a maglev train.

    I won't go into airport congestion, weather delays and other cost additions for aircraft in flight. A maglev train parked on a siding should absorb only sufficient power for safety, communications and environmental (comfort) systems.

    --
    Invenio via vel creo
  10. Re:good idea, maybe the island is to small for it by inca34 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Wouldn't it be awesome if Canada had an awesome rail system with stunning scenery, decent trip times and fairs, and with good train stops? Oh wait, they do, and it's world class:

    http://www.viarail.ca/en_index.html?wt.ad=english_link_view&wt.ac=click_English_link

  11. Re:Population Density by camperdave · · Score: 4, Informative

    The TSA has no need to declare levitating trains as aircraft. They already have authority over rail traffic and mass transit sytems like subways and busses.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  12. Re:Population Density by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Let's not forget; another major reason to take a train is they can be booked last minute with no increase in fare!

    If I decide I want to go from NYC to DC for the weekend I can book the train on Friday. A flight would cost $1000 one way for a day of booking.

  13. Re:Population Density by Rakshasa+Taisab · · Score: 4, Informative

    This sort of project makes a lot of sense in a place like Japan where there are a few places with very dense population separated by rural areas.

    No... NO IT DOESN'T!!!

    It makes sense only in the minds of people who only know the image Japan wants to project to the world.

    They don't need _even faster_ trains using Ãbertech, they already got the shinkansen. Shaving off 30 minutes of the ride from Tokyo to Osaka isn't worth it, when the effort should really be spent on making what they have _affordable_.

    Wasting enormous sums of money (that they don't have, most of it is funneled out of the postal savings and pension funds... Which, btw forced the previous prime minister to resign cause they 'lost' all the records of how much people had deposited) on unneeded construction projects is the _LAST_ thing Japan needs.

    They should try to bury all the cables hanging around everywhere... Seriously, only place in the country where they bury cables are Shinjuku and Harajuku; as a pilot program. It's so ugly that after a while you just learn to ignore it, yet still it lingers in the back of your head.

    Or they could build people real houses, instead of these un-isolated plastic... things. Winter here isn't _that_ warm.

    --
    - These characters were randomly selected.
  14. Re:magic trains by Bloodoflethe · · Score: 2, Informative

    Besides the fact that LOTR is a set of three books, boring is completely perceptual. Tolkien wrote as though he were a storyteller, speaking to his audience. His target audience was not you, rather adults with a higher reading level in a time where attention to detail was well-regarded and the story-teller style was somewhat popular. Besides this, one can get a very strong insight into how Tolkien felt about property from his traditionalist standpoint.

    The Hobbit was written for children - more specifically, his kids. It has a much lower reading level, slightly above the Harry Potter books.

    --
    "Little is much when little you need."
  15. Re:Population Density by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I used to live near Chicago. Love visiting, but don't want to live there. Don't ever move anywhere in Florida. It'd make you cry.

  16. NOT a replacement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    the 500kph maglev trains to replace bullet trains

    The maglev trains will NOT replace the bullet trains; they will take an alternative route between Tokyo and Nagoya, which will increase the bandwidth between the two cities. The current route is very close to being saturated with bullet trains.

  17. Re:Look at those magnets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Yes, but your aluminum foil hat may magnetize, focusing tumor growing EMF into your brain.

  18. Re:good idea, maybe the island is to small for it by xaxa · · Score: 2, Informative

    Explain to me how increase in oil prices doesn't effect all areas of transportation?

    Most main railways in Europe are electrified -- the train takes power from overhead power lines. This makes the train lighter (no need to carry fuel or a diesel engine), allows for regenerative braking, and more powerful freight locomotives (you can draw much more power from an overhead line than you can generate from a diesel engine) and hence better acceleration. It also means you're power source is mixed, and potentially carbon-neutral. There's no pollution from the train, so it's easier to deal with (at the power plant) and nicer for passengers (no exhaust). There's no vibrations (like a diesel engine) which is nicer and causes less wear on the track.

    The disadvantages are
    - if there's a power cut all the trains are stranded (this is incredibly unusual)
    - expensive to install the overhead lines

    and in the USA
    - property tax is much higher on an electric railway, so there are very few.

  19. Re:Population Density by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Driving is only faster because US train system sucks. In germany our highway system (i.e. Autobahn) is better and faster than US highway system (my usual travel speed is 100mph, leading to a 85mph total average), but nontheless the train is faster in connecting many big cities (Munich-Hamburg: 7 hours drive vs 5:30 with the train)

    And with german gas prices, it is even cheaper to go by train than driving.

  20. Re:Population Density by porpnorber · · Score: 2, Informative

    Cars faster than trains? Even the pathetic trains they have in England do 125MPH. In France that's 200MPH. China? 270MPH. Cars cheaper than trains? Only, I suspect, because your wonderful highway system is state-subsidised, but the government is in bed with the automotive companies and will do nothing similar for rail. Wake up, America! There's a whole world out there, and you're not within sight of the leading edge when it comes to anything infrastructural.

    Oh, and you're right. Train tickets aren't as cheap as cars per hour travelled. But that's assuming I spend time in a car for fun. Cars are cramped, smelly, have no restaurants or social opportunities, are inconvenient for reaching city centres and take three times as long to get there. These facts will stay the same even if cars become self-piloting, though I guess that then, at least, you'll be able to sleep and perhaps even to drink without getting yourself and several other people killed.