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X-Rays Emitted From Ordinary Scotch Tape

Maximum Prophet writes "When I was in High School, I built an X-Ray machine that (probably) didn't produce any X-Rays. I used an old vacuum tube and high voltage. Little did I know that simple triboluminescence would have enough energy to do useful work." The catch: you'll need to peel your tape in a vacuum, and have the x-ray film at the ready.

53 of 190 comments (clear)

  1. cancer? by tritonman · · Score: 4, Funny

    does this mean that x-mas gifts can give you cancer?

    1. Re:cancer? by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, just that it makes it easier to guess what's inside the gift wrapping!

    2. Re:cancer? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Funny

      Depends. Do you open your gifts in the vacuum of space?

    3. Re:cancer? by Smidge204 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Only if someone is giving you a vacuum cleaner, apparently...

      =Smidge=

    4. Re:cancer? by The+Fun+Guy · · Score: 5, Funny

      Just remember, in space, no one can hear you clean.

      --
      The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. - Mark Twain
    5. Re:cancer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      To be honest, my vaccuum is way too small for me to fit in, and really, all the dust inside it would probably stick all over the tape making the whole process worthless

    6. Re:cancer? by Hurricane78 · · Score: 5, Funny

      [...] my vaccuum is way too small [...] all the dust inside it [...]

      Vacuum physics knowledge FAIL.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    7. Re:cancer? by nevillethedevil · · Score: 5, Funny

      Only in the state of California...*ducks*

      --
      Be gone from my sight or prepare to feel my flaming wraith!
    8. Re:cancer? by hesiod · · Score: 5, Funny

      Sense of humor FAIL.

  2. I'm ready by flanksteak · · Score: 4, Funny

    The catch: you'll need to peel your tape in a vacuum

    I've been practicing this for years. I knew it would come in handy some day.

  3. Vacuum by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Funny

    The catch: you'll need to peel your tape in a vacuum, and have the x-ray film at the ready.

    Sounds like a job for....

    THE GLOVEBOX!!!

    No, not that glovebox, this glovebox. What do you think this is, a redneck website?

  4. Can the article example serve as prior art? by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The claims for the patent are, of course, not really indicated, but since the article itself states

    Actually, more than 50 years ago, some Russian scientists reported evidence of X-rays from peeling sticky tape off glass.

    I hope that either they've invented something truly novel to do with this effect or they get a big, fat denied letter in the mail from the USPTO.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Can the article example serve as prior art? by Overzeetop · · Score: 5, Funny

      What are you doing taking a hamster on vacation?

      On second thought, don't answer that.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    2. Re:Can the article example serve as prior art? by MozeeToby · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Publishing "Peeling transparent tape in a vacuum produces x-rays" is not the same as patenting "A mobile x-ray device with no power requirements, with x-rays being generated by peeling transparent tape"

    3. Re:Can the article example serve as prior art? by TheLink · · Score: 2, Funny

      "What are you doing taking a hamster on vacation?"

      It's to feed the snake.

      --
    4. Re:Can the article example serve as prior art? by SleptThroughClass · · Score: 2, Funny

      "What are you doing taking a hamster on vacation?" It's to feed the snake.

      You have that much trouble finding a hotel with rats?

    5. Re:Can the article example serve as prior art? by shotgunefx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not big on patents but seems to me they've taken a process, added a novel and non-trivial addition and made a "potentially" very practical invention. This is the kind of things patents were made for. If it were that obvious, wouldn't someone have done something with it in the last half of a century?

      Now there may be other things that might speak to it's novelty, but from the article, seems fair to me.

      --

      -William Shatner can be neither created nor destroyed.
    6. Re:Can the article example serve as prior art? by MozeeToby · · Score: 3, Informative

      the first should result in the second failing to get a patent

      No, it really shouldn't. There's a difference between describing a physical phenomenon and coming up with an application for it. Just because tape produces x-rays does not mean that it is intuitivly obvious how to create a portable x-ray machine out of it. Ask yourself if you could knock one together in your garage this weekend, knowing only that x causes y.

    7. Re:Can the article example serve as prior art? by shotgunefx · · Score: 2, Informative

      Maybe I misread it, but it doesn't mention whether or not the Russian research took place in a vacuum, from the way it reads to me, I took it as not, of course I could be reading that completely wrong. If it wasn't, then that seems like a non trivial modification.

      Though if it wasn't, I have a hard time believing no one followed that up in half a century. Honestly, even if the 50yr old research was in a vacuum and counted as prior art, (and there is no other research since), this is one time I wouldn't mind seeing a bogus patent stick, because at least it's in spirit of what patents are actually supposed to foster.

      --

      -William Shatner can be neither created nor destroyed.
  5. I paid $75 for an x-ray machine at Goodwill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It was cleverly disguised as a malfunctioning computer monitor.

    Getting your face and eyes hit by needlepoints of pain isn't an experience I care to repeat. It's fun for about the first 15 seconds after that no so much.

    1. Re:I paid $75 for an x-ray machine at Goodwill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Um, X-rays don't hurt. Stupid-rays do, though. That's probably what you were feeling.

    2. Re:I paid $75 for an x-ray machine at Goodwill by OrangeTide · · Score: 2, Informative

      Please see a psychiatric professional for these imagined pains you have been feeling. It is far more likely that it has to do with abandonment issues than with some broken old CRT.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  6. sounds dirty by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 4, Funny

    The catch: you'll need to peel your tape in a vacuum

    Oh trust me, I "peel my tape in a vacuum" all the time....

    --
    This guy's the limit!
  7. I'm sure I'm not the only one... by RobertB-DC · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm sure, almost certain, that the ripping sound you hear is the sound of a million geeks all pulling about 1.2 inches of tape off of their desktop dispenser.

    Bonus points if it's now wrapped around your finger as a memento.

    --
    Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
  8. Another fun fact by Gizzmonic · · Score: 4, Funny

    Did you know that Brazil nuts are radioactive? And so is granite! There's radiation everywhere! Luckily, I have a hat.

    --
    (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
    1. Re:Another fun fact by corsec67 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Light bulbs also emit radiation.

      Most of that tends to be in the visible/infrared/ultraviolet depending on the specific bulb.

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
  9. Re:Jack Frosty claims another victim by eln · · Score: 5, Funny

    So I should avoid opening Christmas presents too close to the Hoover...check.

    See, this is why I read Slashdot: useful tips like this one. My wife always runs the vacuum around the Christmas tree before we go to bed on Christmas Eve, and often she just leaves it there right by the tree. Luckily, my kids have developed gift opening techniques that somehow manage to rip the wrapping paper into several hundred small pieces without ever disengaging the tape, so they probably haven't been exposed to too much radiation thus far, but we'll have to be sure to put the vacuum back in the closet before going to bed from now on.

  10. Re:In other news... by MiKM · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You're probably thinking of black body radiation, which is decidedly different from this. For a black body to emit enough X-rays to do any useful work, it'd have to be pretty damn hot (something glowing red-hot is around 1000K). In other words, this seems to be an interesting discovery.

  11. Scotch Tape in space.... by EvilGrin5000 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder how this is going to affect items with similar properties (like good ol' duct tape) while at the space station.

    "Hey! there's a leak on the outside wall but damn it, they wouldn't let us bring any duct tape!" :)

    --
    A black cat crossing your path signifies that the animal is going somewhere. -- Groucho Marx
  12. so many other options! by CaptainPatent · · Score: 4, Funny
    You could have gone with:
    "Hey baby, I'm gonna get some scotch tape cause I wanna see your insides."
    -or-
    "If I'm scotch tape and your the vacuum then why don't we go release some energy."
    -or even-
    "If you want rapid pulses, I'll give you 1.2 inches a second."

    but instead you went with:

    Oh trust me, I "peel my tape in a vacuum" all the time....

    I'm sorry but I just can't accept that.

    --
    Well, back to rejecting software patent applications.
  13. Only if someone is giving you a vacuum cleaner... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Or a pony.

    In which case the pony-shaped wrapping and the labored breathing give it away.

  14. 2x Wheels instead of a roll of tape by xonar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A more practical approach might be to have two wide wheels, one covered in the substance, and the other with a smooth non-stick surface centered in a vaccum ball. The substance could be reapplied easily whenever need be, and be a little less ridiculous.

  15. What I want to know by PearsSoap · · Score: 2, Funny

    Will this lead to a wave of new sticky-tape-related superheroes?

    1. Re:What I want to know by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Funny

      Will this lead to a wave of new sticky-tape-related superheroes?

      Yes!

      First up, The Great Scotch. He's Scottish, wears traditional Scottish garb including the plaid kilt, is constantly drunk off X-ray enriched Scotch from his secret distillery(some say it is the source of his powers), and fights crime with super-strong and seemingly endless strips of sticky tape that he pulls from underneath his kilt. He won't say where it comes from, which is good because nobody asks. His arch-nemesis is 3M corporation, who are constantly trying to sue him for trademark infringement. No relationship to The Great Scott, who is a transsexual from Transylvania who uses toilet paper as a weapon...

      Next up, for 'urban' markets, The Gift Rapper! He swings around the city on lines of sticky tape that he shoots from his wrists. He disguises himself by covering his entire body in wrapping paper which he changes regularly, to match any nearby holidays for example. The Gift Rapper robs riches from crooked developers, organized criminals, drug lords, and cops on the take. He then delivers the riches to the poor children, gift-wrapped of course, and then performs a free-style rap that combines horrible puns and trite moral lessons about not being greedy, listening to parents, and staying in school for the decreasingly-grateful youngsters. Speculation abounds as to which no-name underground rapper-no-really-see-I-have-a-demo-tape is his secret identity.

      And at this point one part of my brain is threatening the other part with an aneurysm if I don't stop, so I will.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
  16. Re:Hmmmm .... by treeves · · Score: 5, Informative

    The article suggests Bremsstrahlung (note the 3rd paragraph of the linked article) of the electrons jumping from the non-sticky surface to the sticky surface of the tape - I guess the air present in a non-vacuum situation lets the electrons slow gradually or maybe have lower initial velocity - that part is unclear from the article.

    --
    ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
  17. Re:Only if someone is giving you a vacuum cleaner. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I see you got to your pony on xmas faster than I did.

  18. Latest Nigerian Spam . . . by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 3, Funny

    I used an old vacuum tube and high voltage.

    Well, I don't necessarily endorse your kink, but if it provides a cost effective alternative to Viagra for you ...

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  19. Locked Away For 20+ Years by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The researchers and UCLA have applied for a patent covering such devices.

    We will not see this technology being used to actually help people for 20+ years. The researchers have already been paid to discover this result in their salaries. Why should they be paid again on the backs of those who actually develop practical uses for this discovery? Of what benefit is it to society for this technology to be hoarded by a small few?

    The patenting of scientific phenomena is a shameful institution that needs to be stopped. A university is not supposed to be a for profit institution.

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
    1. Re:Locked Away For 20+ Years by leoval · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That is really interesting, in particular because Nature magazine (where the paper will appear) used to have a policy of not accepting submissions that are being or have been patented.

    2. Re:Locked Away For 20+ Years by Rakishi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The researchers have already been paid to discover this result in their salaries.

      And those salaries are lower than they would be had these researchers not had the option to make extra money from their research. So no, these researchers weren't already paid since part of their payment is the ability to patent things. So how do you feel about having your taxes go up?

      Why should they be paid again on the backs of those who actually develop practical uses for this discovery?

      Because they did the research to get these results and probably will work on the practical applications. The alternative is them publishing their results in an some journal and then forcing someone else to start from scratch to get any applications out of them.

      Of what benefit is it to society for this technology to be hoarded by a small few?

      What benefit is it so society that you are paid more than minimum wage for your work, wouldn't society be better off if they could invest those resources somewhere else?

      The benefit is in multiple forms, it's on one hand an incentive to develop practical applications of research and to research in practical areas. It provides a larger potential profit for those who go into academic research which encourages more people to go into that field. It provides extra funding for universities which can then be reinvested into other research.

  20. not bloody likely by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 4, Informative

    Typical X-ray machines use 50 to 200 kilovolts and milliamps of electrons slamming into a tungsten target. Nothing less will do.

    It's kinda unlikely Scotch (brand) tape can bypass all the bottlenecks and emit copious X-rays.

    It's much more likely they're getting electrostatic discharges in the film. The New Age loonballs call it "Kirlian Photography".

    I'll be glad to eat a hat if this pans out. Until then I'll just wear it.

    1. Re:not bloody likely by argent · · Score: 2, Informative

      Watch the film. It sure looks like they're getting X-rays to me.

    2. Re:not bloody likely by kesuki · · Score: 2, Interesting

      'It's kinda unlikely Scotch (brand) tape can bypass all the bottlenecks and emit copious X-rays.'

      it's not about the length of the pulse, but the power of the pulse. if you only need one billionth of a second of x-rays, then scotch tape, in a vacuum is for you. the key point here is that rather than generating x-rays for a full second, you're getting a single pulse a billionth of a second in duration. this is plenty long to expose a very sensitive x-ray detector.

      "Rapid pulses of X-rays, each about a billionth of a second long, emerged from very close to where the tape was coming off the roll."

      tfa said the pulse only lasted 1 billionth of a second long, meaning that indeed the static charge build up is creating a usable, but very short pulse of x-rays.

      'It's much more likely they're getting electrostatic discharges in the film. The New Age loonballs call it "Kirlian Photography".

      I'll be glad to eat a hat if this pans out. Until then I'll just wear it.'

      this is not kirlian photography, the fact of the matter is they took an x-ray of the guys finger with a single pulse of x-rays at 1 billionth of a second of duration. i suggest you gets some ketchup for you are eating hat tonight.

    3. Re:not bloody likely by oodaloop · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There are walk-through scanners being tested right now for airports that detect the incredibly small amount of X-rays given off by the human body (the recent discovery of which prompted said scanners). The scanners are highly sensitive and passive, revealling everything, from metal weapons to plastic to *ahem* body parts. Seems plausible this type of source of X-rays, combined with a more sensitive detector could result in a less-power intensive alternative to traditional X-ray machines.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
  21. This sounds similar to... by willoughby · · Score: 5, Interesting

    a phenomenon I learned about in photography class many years ago. Back in the days of film a roll of 35mm film was attached to the spool inside the canister by a small bit of tape. In the darkroom as you disassembled the canister to remove the film for processing, if you peeled this tape quickly the "peeling", or "stretching" adhesive would glow. We learned to peel the tape slowly because the glow from rapidly pulled tape was sufficient to fog film.

  22. Re:Oh, that's nothing... by operagost · · Score: 2, Funny

    Don't let Red Green know or we'll have some really fast, radioactive van running around Canada.

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  23. X-Rays emit 10Kv by Toll_Free · · Score: 2, Informative

    With the work Ive done with high power vaccum tubes (> 30 Kilowatts output), it has become standard practice for Eimac and other manufacturers to list dangers for them.

    eg., the 4-1000 tetrode, with > 12 KV on the anode, will emit xrays. As will almost ANY other tetrode or triode in existance.

    I'd say the person who wrote the article didn't understand that He'd need THAT much anode voltage to get the tube to emit.

    That being said, I'd almost have to say that the scotch tape being used to emit the XRays would be doing so because of a HUGE electrostatic (static electricity) charge.

    Most of the tubes I work with are a quarter megawatt can be seen on my old website, http://www.bigradios.com/tollfree

    --Toll_Free

  24. Re:In other news... by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...EVERYTHING in the universe is radioactive to some degree. Except for iron.

    To be radioactive you have to have nuclei. 96% of the Universe is Dark Matter and Dark Energy that does not contain any nuclei. Of the remaining 4% the vast majority is in stable isotopes of hydrogen and helium and so is not radioactive. Additionally there are radioactive isotopes of iron. Iron-56 may be the most stable atomic nucleus but there are many other isotopes of iron some of which are radioactive.

  25. Re:You must check out the 3M company museum... by OrangeTide · · Score: 2, Funny

    What is the museum doing under water?

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  26. Video by Peter+Lake · · Score: 3, Informative

    There's an informative video in Nature about the phenomenom and the experiment: http://www.nature.com/nature/videoarchive/x-rays/

    They even show how to take x-rays using scotch tape.

    --

    All Rights Reversed.
  27. Re:Only if someone is giving you a vacuum cleaner. by samson13 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Don't save the big one for last.

    I guess that solves the x-ray problem. Lots of glue for next xmas.

  28. Re:X-Rays emit 10Kv by Toll_Free · · Score: 2, Informative

    According to John T.M. Lyles, an engineer who works on megawatt and bigger amps and oscillators for the federal government at an installation in New Mexico, it takes > 8 KV to emit xrays that would be measurable or damaging.

    contesting.com amps reflector has a nice email exchange on it, as does the Yahoo.com ham amps reflector.

    NO, not every tube will emit xrays. EMITTING xrays is what's dangerous. Just because a ceramic / metal triode / tetrode is GENERATING them, if it doesn't escape the envelope, it's not emitting them.

    Kind of like your microwave. It shouldn't be emitting microwaves, but it creates them.

    Hope that makes sense, or at least makes my point.

    --Toll_Free

  29. Different kinds of tape. by srothroc · · Score: 2, Informative

    I wonder if different kinds of tape would generate different amounts of x-rays depending on stickiness -- for example, duct tape or packing tape.

    I suppose it's kind of hard to use tape in the vacuum of space since the cold also tends to ruin the stickiness almost immediately...