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IBM's Teri-is-a-Girl-and-Terry-is-a-Boy Patent

theodp writes "The USPTO has granted IBM a patent for utilizing naming conventions to assign gender-based avatars for instant messaging. A user named Teri, IBM explains, would be given a girl avatar, while a user named Terry would be provided with a boy avatar. The three IBM 'inventors' were stymied by users named Pat, who as a result will be assigned a 'generic, genderless human figure image as his or her avatar.' Way to honor that significant-technical-content patent pledge, Big Blue!"

46 of 277 comments (clear)

  1. English names only? by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What about odd spellings?

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    1. Re:English names only? by catch23 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, what about Xie Hua? Is Xie a male or female?

    2. Re:English names only? by Bieeanda · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You mean like my aunt Terry, who would be categorized as a man by that system?

    3. Re:English names only? by mackyrae · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or my step-mom Terry?

      --
      look! it's a bird, it's a plane, it's....a girl? yes, a girl browsing Slashdot on Linux
    4. Re:English names only? by amRadioHed · · Score: 3, Informative

      Xie would be the last name. Unless you mean is Xie Hua male or female. Either way, Hua sounds feminine to me.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    5. Re:English names only? by ozamosi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My name is Robin, which is basically exclusively male here in Sweden (I've never met any females called Robin, but it's among the top ten most common boys names), which is mostly male in England, and which is mostly female in the US.

      Oh, and I run all my software in (US) English.

      I'd like to see the software that figures out the gender of all the Robin in the world!

    6. Re:English names only? by phatvw · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why such a narrow patent? Why not patent an algorithm recognizing the patterns in English names in general to be applied in any User-interface rather just in an IM client?
      Also what is this bit about a "database storing anthroponomastic information to perform the anthroponomastic analysis of the username of the first user to determine the probable gender" Is that a table of known names vs gender stats based on public records? Or is it name fragments and endings matched to probability of gender? For example if a name ends in "A" its probably female, but if it ends in "T" its probably male. If they are using an algorithm which decomposes the name, that's kinda cool, but if they are just looking it up in a table of public records, thats pretty lame IMO.

    7. Re:English names only? by Nasajin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I was going to say that Marilyn Manson might get annoyed with the automated gender mixup, but then I realised that he probably wouldn't.

    8. Re:English names only? by camperdave · · Score: 5, Funny

      Either way, Hua sounds feminine to me.

      You haven't seen many films about US marines, have you?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    9. Re:English names only? by orclevegam · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Likewise Kyle, which although often male, is occasionally used as a female name. Then there are those that come up with entirely new names, or that use nicknames, or handles to contend with. Yeah, sorry, this sounds like it's utterly useless, you've taken what once was a simple question of "Are you male or female?", and turned it into "Based on your name our software thinks you're X, is this correct?". All they've done is taken a simple question and reworked it so that it makes a potentially embarrassing/insulting/annoying assumption about a person, which then needs to have steps put in place to insure that it's made the correct assumption, all for the sake of avoiding a simple binary question.

      --
      Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
    10. Re:English names only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Better question, what kind of avatar would xx13g0l4zxx get?

    11. Re:English names only? by Naturalis+Philosopho · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Keep reading. It's about tyranny, not taxes. Why do some people find it so hard to distinguish between symptom and disease?

    12. Re:English names only? by geminidomino · · Score: 4, Funny

      A gay furry.

    13. Re:English names only? by seanalltogether · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And if its just a table of public records with gender assignments, is the following logic really patentable? "SELECT gender FROM names WHERE name=$name" if(count == 0 || gender == "neutral"){ return neutral.jpg; }else if(gender == "female"){ return female.jpg; }else{ return male.jpg; } I hope my psuedocode isn't breaking the law!

    14. Re:English names only? by catch23 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Also I might note that in some cultures, there is less of a male/female oriented names. My sister and I were named off of a variant of the jade stone, which probably has little to do with me being male, or my sister female.

    15. Re:English names only? by bersl2 · · Score: 2, Funny

      The application says "anthroponomastic", not "anthropomorphic"! Get it right!

    16. Re:English names only? by Naturalis+Philosopho · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What about odd spellings coupled with gender ambiguity...like Jayne Cobb?

    17. Re:English names only? by geminidomino · · Score: 5, Funny

      Doesn't matter. Anyone who calls himself "Legolas", l33t-crypted or not, deserves a gay furry avatar[0], and I'll stand by that assertion until the day I die.

      [0] Unless his parents gave him that name. Then he can be forgiven if he goes Menendez.

    18. Re:English names only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you're Chinese you should know better-- we put the family name before the name.

    19. Re:English names only? by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 4, Funny

      Doesn't matter. Anyone who can recognise "Legolas", l33t-crypted like that, deserves a gay furry avatar[0], and I'll stand by that assertion until the day I die.

      [0] Not that there's anything wrong with that.

    20. Re:English names only? by amRadioHed · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The sound of the name has nothing to do with it. As ChameleonDave points out, it is usually considered a feminine name in Mandarin because it can mean flower.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
  2. I know a Terry... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Informative

    who is going to be very irritated when it's assumed she's a boy.

  3. Strange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The filing date is February 28, 2008.

    The only way a patent gets through that quick is 'Accelerated Examination' (decision in 1 year or less).

    1. Re:Strange by eln · · Score: 2, Funny

      Apparently IBM is in a big hurry to start offending people by misrepresenting their genders.

  4. Standard Behaviour by Nerdfest · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Like most companies, IBM is only 'not evil' when it's extremely convenient, or there's some marketing value to be had.

    1. Re:Standard Behaviour by nine-times · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Geeze, here we go again. Listen, patenting stupid crap isn't evil. *Suing* other people for your stupid crap patents is evil. Countersuing other people for violating your stupid crap patents after they've sued you for violating their stupid crap patents is simply a business reality these days.

      Big companies like Apple, Microsoft, Google, IBM, and Novell have to patent any little thing that floats into their heads that the patent office will let them patent. They all do it, and the purpose is mostly for the sake of maintaining a defensive-patent war chest to keep the other big companies at bay with mutually assured destruction.

      Start complaining about them being evil when they sue someone.

  5. So, what did they decide for... by msauve · · Score: 2, Informative

    the name Bambi?

    It's commonly thought of, and used, as a girl's name, but in one of its most famous uses (the movie) it's a male name.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    1. Re:So, what did they decide for... by Nerdfest · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh deer ... we never thought of that.

    2. Re:So, what did they decide for... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      D'oe

  6. No one uses boring avatar names by Gizzmonic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Give me a break, no one uses names like "Jill" and "Steve" for their avatars! They use names like xXDeath_StalkerXx and KillMurder_415 and awesome stuff like that. This patent ain't worth a case of Bawls.

    --
    (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
    1. Re:No one uses boring avatar names by e9th · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Unless the names are xXDeath_StalkeretteXx and KillMurderess_415, assigning a male avatar is probably a safe bet.

    2. Re:No one uses boring avatar names by dfm3 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Even then, assigning a male avatar is probably still a safe bet.

  7. Leslie, Tracy, Sam? by camperdave · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder where that leaves, Leslie Nielson, Tracy Lawrence, Charlie Dore, Alex McKenna, and the like.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  8. Not even that. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 5, Informative

    When ever you try to assign gender on anything except the Chromosomes it will fail.

    Actually it fails pretty spectacularly when you try to determine it based on chromosomes, too. There are XY women with androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS), and both XXY and XYY men. In many cases, especially those of AIS, they may go their whole lives without knowing that their chromosomes convey something different than their sex organs.

    And using sex organs starts to fail as well when you get into intersexed and transgendered people; someone's sex organs may not match the gender they 'pass' as in social contexts, or that they prefer to be treated as.

    It is anything but a black and white issue.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:Not even that. by shermo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I always thought it was a black and white issue.

      You simply refer to people how they want you to refer to them.

      --
      Insanity: voting in the same two parties over and over again and expecting different results
    2. Re:Not even that. by syousef · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually it fails pretty spectacularly when you try to determine it based on chromosomes, too. There are XY women with androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS), and both XXY and XYY men. In many cases, especially those of AIS, they may go their whole lives without knowing that their chromosomes convey something different than their sex organs.

      I agree it's difficult to assign a gender (if you only allow male, female) to an XY woman with AIS since you have external female appears with internal undescended testicles. However XXY and XYY men are as you just said classified as male, so it's just an AIS XY that is the problem.

      Two ways of dealing with the problem, using only chromosomes:
      1) Assign AIS XY individuals a gender based on reasoning and logic instead of allowing them to choose.
      2) Create a 3rd category, androgen.

      So it doesn't fail. The real world just forces you to come up with more complex rules. It's a hell of a lot more reliable and fair than trying to accomodate every fool that says "I feel like a woman trapped in a man's body". Well sometimes I wish I were a dolphin buddy, but I'm not going to lobby for others to recognise me as one. Life's harsh. In practice I'd take a more compassionate stance and not be so crass about it but having some compassion does not mean I have to deal with other people's dillusions and fanciful wishes that don't change reality.

      I wonder how the law deals with this?

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  9. Re:stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Your mother is so Terry, IBM thought she was a man!

  10. What's worse, is that it's done dumbly by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's amazing that they analyze the name so hard. I would just throw a database at the problem. It's inconceivable that IBM doesn't have a shitload of demographic databases around, which already have name-sex pairs. Just select sex, count(*) where name='terry' group by sex. If the ratio is overwhelming in one direction, choose that, and if the margin of error is too high (and I'd set that pretty low to avoid pissing off Miss Pat), pick neutral. That would work with any language, too (assuming IBM has a database for that culture).

    --
    "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
  11. I dare you.... by Atriqus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    IBM, I dare you find a name where there's no one also by that name of the opposite sex.

    --
    Hey, look! It's Bono's brother.
    1. Re:I dare you.... by Shin-LaC · · Score: 2, Informative

      I wonder what the origin of that difference is?

      American girls keep stealing boys' names. No, seriously. Check out chapter 6 of Freakonomics.

  12. Re:What about me? by mr_mischief · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Anyone who implemented this would probably be smart enough to let you change the avatar during the sign-up process. This is a way to placate the ladies who get all upset that the systems tend to default to male avatars which is slightly more accurate than randomly assigning one or the other. A checkbox before the avatar default is chosen I'd think would be even more accurate, though.

  13. RTFP by The+Amazing+Fish+Boy · · Score: 3, Informative
    The whole point of the patent is that it's for cross-cultural communication, not just for English names only. It's not a totally unreasonable idea. It sounds like it looks the user's gender up based on where they are from and what their name is. Odd spellings would likely be classified as unisex, unless there were a general rule for naming conventions (e.g. In North America, names ending in 'i' are likely to be female.) Furthermore, you could build up your 'odd spelling' database by recording the gender people select for themselves.

    The example ozamosi posted below would be covered fairly well by this patent: Robins in North America would be classified as female, but Robins from Sweden would be classified as male.

    My criticism of the invention's effectiveness is that it's not completely fool-proof, and would inevitably assign the wrong gender for people with the spelling typically adopted by the opposite gender. It might be a worse "faux pas" to address a male as female (or vice versa), than to leave assumptions of their gender out of the picture. Of course this might vary from culture to culture, and I really don't know about that. It might be more effective to just force the user to input their gender, but this would have to be done on every client, which could be problematic.

    Of course, I'm not sure whether we should be assisting the enforcement of "societal conventions" based on differences in gender, but that's a different topic from the invention's effectiveness.

    By the way, here's the relevant part:

    an expansive list of names compiled from those used in many different cultures catalogued according to gender (that is, male, female, or unisex), a list of rules for associating a username not included in the list of names with a particular culture, and a list of rules derived from naming conventions that are employed in many different cultures catalogued culturally, linguistically, nationally, regionally, and/or according to other relevant anthroponomastic criteria.

  14. Re:Have to post anon here by Dzimas · · Score: 3, Interesting

    All names are made up, when you get right down to it. We have traditionally used a fairly small set of Anglicized names in North America, but that's changing. There are lots of kids of all colors with some fairly creative (and occasionally bizarre) names. The most popular male baby names in the USA include Jaxon, Jaden and Xander. Popular girl's names include Alyssa, Ashlyn and Caitlyn. These are hardly traditional. Common "Afro-American" names are merely an evolving sub-set of modern names. Most importantly, many follow fairly predictable patterns... Jada, Tierra and Imani have a and i endings, denoting female. Darnell and Darius have masculine endings, and names starting in De (as in DeShaw) are male while La denotes female (LaToya).

  15. Wouldn't it be easier..... by Yuan-Lung · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...to just ASK the user during the sign up?

    Are you [ ]Male [ ]Female

    Would you like to use a avatar that is
    [ ] Male
    [ ] Female
    [ ] Generic Genderless
    [ ] Tentacle Monster
    [ ] Cowboyneal

  16. Why not just ASK?!? by Locke2005 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My friends Gail and Carol might have a problem with this method, since both of them are male... Sam and Mel might have problem too, since Sam is short for Samantha and Mel is short for Melonie.
    I prefer the solution used in the interactive game "Leather Goddesses of Phobos": at the start of the game, you have a sudden urge to use the restroom. Your gender for the rest of the game depends on which restroom door you choose.
    Really, I think arbitrarily guessing people's gender is just going to alienate them when you guess wrong.

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  17. Terry & Terry by BHS_Turf · · Score: 5, Funny

    Both my wife and I are named Terry, and yes, she took my last name. The running joke is that I get all the bills, and she gets all the cheques.