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FCC Unanimously Approves White Space Wi-Fi

Smelly Jeffrey writes "With the release of this whitepaper, the FCC unanimously approved plans for a new technology with strong supporters and even stronger detractors. White Space Wi-Fi effectively allows manufacturers of wireless devices to incorporate transceivers that operate on unused DTV channels. Although the deregulation is new, the idea seems to have caught Google's interest recently as well. It seems that this has been rather rushed through the normally stagnant channels at the FCC. While some view it as interference in the already crowded spectrum, it seems the FCC Chairman really likes the idea of re-purposing dark parts of the newly allocated DTV bands once more." Update: 11/06 18:15 GMT by T : You may want to look at Tuesday's mention of the decision as well, but the additional links here are interesting.

39 of 156 comments (clear)

  1. Good grief by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They'll deregulate use of the spectrum, but if you say "blow job" on television, they'll fine you into oblivion. Sounds like they've got their priorities straight.

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    1. Re:Good grief by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Reminds me of an old (yes I'm dating myself) LA Law episode that was explaining a photograph of a man and mistress in a particular sexual act.

      ".... a position commonly referred to as a number"

      It didn't fool anyone about anything, but they were obviously censored from saying it.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    2. Re:Good grief by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't know about that. This was the show that introduced America to the "Venus Butterfly"

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    3. Re:Good grief by theaveng · · Score: 4, Funny

      Second best thing ever. Right after the Sybian. Now I don't have to kill myself trying to keep my woman happy. ;-)

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
  2. How are we getting screwed on this one? by jollyreaper · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The explanation I read sounded like this could be a good thing but whenever I see something like this come sailing through an approval process, I always have to wonder whose money greased the skids. The worse it is for the public, the quicker they push things through so nobody gets a chance to notice.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    1. Re:How are we getting screwed on this one? by Ron_Fitzgerald · · Score: 4, Funny

      If Bill Gates/Microsoft and Google really pushed for this then you KNOW it is for the good of the people and not some attempt at corporate financial padding.

      --
      ~ Ron Fitzgerald
    2. Re:How are we getting screwed on this one? by ClosedSource · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Squatting on the spectrum is just as bad as squatting domains or houses."

      Actually, it's much worse. The unallocated spectrum for communications is much more limited.

    3. Re:How are we getting screwed on this one? by rpmayhem · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, for those of us who use wireless microphones (like you see at concerts, conventions, sports stadiums, or churches), we are the ones who might get screwed. They FCC says they are putting measures in place to prevent this, but we'll have to see what happens. There will be another ruling to finalize all this. Here's a decent summary from Shure[PDF] (they make wireless mics).

    4. Re:How are we getting screwed on this one? by Twinbee · · Score: 4, Informative

      Joking aside, Google sums up the change on their web site Free the Airwaves. From what I gather, devices will only be able to be sold as lnog as they keep to a restricted set of wavelengths.

      Other than that, it's a 'free for all', which should in theory allow cheaper wifi, broadband, free mobile phone calls (as they would communicate directly with each other), and healthy competition in the overall communication sector.

      --
      Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
    5. Re:How are we getting screwed on this one? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hey, just a heads-up, this means that those of you who use wireless microphones are no longer illegally transmitting on licensed channels, so even though it might cause some interference you should think of it as a good thing.

    6. Re:How are we getting screwed on this one? by moderatorrater · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It was unanimous. Corporate bigwigs are such penny pinchers that they would only buy the smallest number of people to get it to pass, not everyone on the committee. I have some small amount of faith that this isn't entirely bad.

    7. Re:How are we getting screwed on this one? by MadChicken · · Score: 3, Informative

      Uh, how about anyone and everyone at at concerts, conventions, sports stadiums, or churches?

      --
      SYS 64738 NO CARRIER
    8. Re:How are we getting screwed on this one? by interiot · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There's several hundred megahertz of open spectrum in between the TV channels. Wireless mikes have had sole use of that empty space for a long time, and they're complaining because things are changing. In some cases, they may have to buy more equipment, but the idea that they should continue to get sole use of this huge amount of spectrum is ridiculous.

      What's needed is a way for wireless mics and the new whitespace devices to properly share the spectrum. The reason this is difficult is that wireless mics are manufactured many different ways, and don't have a standard transmission pattern. The "cognitive radios" will be able to detect digital TV stations automatically, but won't be able to sense the presence of wireless mics. So one possible solution is for wireless microphones to have an extra box that transmits a beacon that indicates to whitespace devices that "hey, there's a wireless mic here". That's an extra expense for each existing installation, but again, wireless mics shouldn't get sole use of this extra space.

    9. Re:How are we getting screwed on this one? by pilgrim23 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Follow the Money someone once said... The whole reason analog Television was killed was spectrum. Lovely lovely spectrum. A TV channel takes up a lot of room. The entire AM dial would fit inside Channel 2 with room to spare for ship to shore radio. The advantage of this is that even marginal signals will come in with a little fuzz. On the other hand, Digital takes up far less room. The disadvantage is that marginal channels just simply drop, pixelize or freeze. White space is the room around the digital channel signal. Personally, since I get over the air analog (about 14 stations), and come 2009 will receive about 1.5 stations thanks to this (A big hill between my antenna and the broadcast tower), I think its great becasue I do not watch broadcast TV anyway. Worry about THEM apples Advertisers!

      --
      - Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
    10. Re:How are we getting screwed on this one? by russotto · · Score: 3, Informative

      On the other hand, Digital takes up far less room.

      Widely held misconception. A digital ATSC channel takes up 6MHz, same as an analog NTSC channel.

    11. Re:How are we getting screwed on this one? by fyrewulff · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How are you going to lose access to channels that will not exist in 2 1/2 months?

      --
      "We need to get over this notion, that, for Apple to win... Microsoft must lose." - Steve Jobs, 1997
    12. Re:How are we getting screwed on this one? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Oh my LOLs.

      I mean, seriously, bluetooth has a 100 ft. maximum distance for a reliable connection. That's only the width of a medium sized stage. You'd better hope nobody needs a wireless mic while talking to audience members or anything.

      And BT just doesn't have the bandwidth to even 44.1khz stereo (although it does have enough for mono, but A2DP, the only non-shitty spec, specifies stereo). A2DP using SBC still doesn't give as accurate a rendition as an analog mic signal ever will. Maybe some of the other specs would come close, but they're optional and therefore may as well not exist.

    13. Re:How are we getting screwed on this one? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I see a picture, but it's just unwatchable garbage.

      You should be modded offtopic. The programming is a seperate issue from the spectrum.

    14. Re:How are we getting screwed on this one? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      However, ATSC can transmit multiple SD sub-channels in one 6MHz band and use MPEG compression to save bandwidth, making it more bandwidth-efficient than NTSC. (So I would say that you and GP are both correct.)

    15. Re:How are we getting screwed on this one? by lysergic.acid · · Score: 3, Interesting

      jesus christ, do you have to repeat the same specious arguments every single time the white-space spectrum is brought up? what do hacked iPods have to do with FCC approval of wi-fi over the white-space spectrum? a hacker can modify their wireless devices to broadcast over any frequency they want regardless of federal regulations. the FCC regulates commercial equipment manufacturers, not renegade iPod hackers.

      besides, the white-space spectrum that is being opened up to wi-fi applications is what's being freed up by the switchover to digital television. whether wi-fi uses this spectrum or not, you're not going to receive any TV signals over it. that's why it's being classified as white-space. and you keep whining about some perceived threat all of this is based purely on blind speculation. the FCC tests have found that such use of the white-space spectrum won't interfere with any existing applications, so unless you can have evidence of the contrary, you're just talking out of your ass.

      opening up white-space frequencies for wireless broadband applications serves public interest much more than reserving this band for terrestrial TV broadcasts would. the usable radio spectrum is a limited public resource that is currently being monopolized by TV/radio/cellular networks. right now only a handful of media & communications corporations are allowed to make us of this data transmission medium. opening up the spectrum, even partially, to wireless broadband would allow everyone to benefit from this shared resource instead of it just being hoarded by a rich & powerful minority.

      frankly, terrestrial broadcasting, of both TV and radio, is soon to become a technological anachronism anyway. the internet is an open public communications network. what's more, it's a generalized digital communications network, meaning it can transfer video, audio, text, or any other data. so why waste radio bands on specialized closed communications networks? it won't be long before ubiquitous open wireless access subsumes all cellular/radio/tv networks.

      i'm sorry to say this, but your Luddite paranoia is really just a knee-jerk reaction to societal progress. it's like complaining that wireless routers are going to interfere with your teletype machine.

  3. CmdrTaco, read before you post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    This was posted to the front page just a day ago: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/05/0016251

    1. Re:CmdrTaco, read before you post by JustinOpinion · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is rather offtopic, but I'd like to say it anyways...

      It used to be that the Slashdot frontpage was riddled with dupes. We complained every time that the editors were idiots, that they should have a system in place to recognize dupes. Many people even said that they emailed regarding the dupes while they were in the mysterious future, and yet the still hit the front page. Thus was born the Slashdot meme about every story being eventually duped.

      But, I have to say that over the last while, the number of dupes is way, way down. The firehose and tagging seem to have alot to do with it--dupes are flagged earlier in the process, giving the editors the feedback they need.

      Dupes are not entirely eliminated, but the frequency is down. So I'd like to say: thanks to the Slashdot staff for fixing the issue that we complained about. We are a whiny bunch, and it's too easy for us to complain but then forget to appreciate the things that are fixed (or have always been good). So, again, good work on the dupe reduction.

  4. Re:The Google Press Release by gehrehmee · · Score: 2, Informative

    Even just from the URL, that's a press release from 2007 and has nothing to do with this whitespace issue.

    --
    "You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help" -- Calvin
  5. International compatability? by GiMP · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Existing Wifi uses channels open for use internationally (more or less). It sounds to me that this might not be true in this case. That is one reason for alarm.

  6. Yeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was watching the behind the scenes of "Family Guy" and they were talking about making up swear words. Seth said that when a made up swear word that was OK to say on TV becomes part of the language, the FCC will then consider it off-limits to say on TV.

    People can be so weird about words.

    Then you have the cry babies who have to bitch to the FCC over every little thing. But if you actually mention that there's an off switch, somehow, you're the moron.

    1. Re:Yeah by Limburgher · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Odd how your position conflicts with your sig.

      I have young children, and I have a simple method for determining what they see. I hold the remote, and I change the channel if something fails to meet my approval. If a show or channel repeatedly crosses a line, we just don't watch it.

      This way, I can make sure my kids don't see really graphic violence, but are allowed to see healthy expressions of affection, within reason.

      I even have a name for this method: parenting. :)

      --

      You are not the customer.

    2. Re:Yeah by Golddess · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You do realize that there are other activities that one can partake of aside from watching TV, right?

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    3. Re:Yeah by cthulu_mt · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yes, but what do you expect us lazy/stupid/uncaring people to do?

      Keep breeding more little monsters.

      --
      Virginia is for lovers. EVE is for griefers.
  7. New Resources by Selfunfocused · · Score: 3, Insightful

    By opening up this spectrum, the FCC has given Obama a gift. The Obama technology plan talks about the need to "deploy next-generation broadband" among other things, but with a weakening economy he's going to find a lot less money to back such initiatives. Thankfully, with a simple restructuring of the rules, the FCC has created space for new innovation that might prove easier to fund than laying cables throughout the country. Not that I don't want more cables. I love cables.

  8. Rushing is usually bad by John+Jamieson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think it is good for everyone if unused parts of the spectrum are utilized.

    But my goodness... what is the rush that it could not wait a few more months while they tweaked the prototypes so they did not stomp on weak TV signals or wireless mics?

    A few more months devoted to getting a succesful trial is nothing.

    1. Re:Rushing is usually bad by Chyeld · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Conversely, if you have written the spec so that they must not stomp on licensed signals, why drag your feet on waiting on prototypes that are perfect?

      Oh wait, I know... because really the problem is the people who are already illegally using the spectrum (i.e. broadcasters and their wireless mics) and who see this as a threat to their own monopolies want to kill the idea and playing the waiting game gives them more time to do it in.

    2. Re:Rushing is usually bad by John+Jamieson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, that would be one way to look at it. BUT, we all know from experience that if you cannot get a low production prototype working, there is NO way it will work in mass production.

      As for the wireless mics, while we now know they were not explicitly licenced, they have been in use with the full knowledge of the FCC. The FCC said NOTHING for 30 years. As a result, a lot of institutions have innocently invested thousands of dollars in the equipment and rely on them.
      As a result of the inaction of the FCC, the FCC has a moral obligation to make sure the transition goes smoothly.

      Thus, and extra 2 - 3 months to get the specs and prototypes working is not an onerous request.

    3. Re:Rushing is usually bad by John+Jamieson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wow, lets stick to a discussion and not get excited. Please don't put words in my mouth, I did not do that to you.

      You said "there is an entire illegal underground full of people committing felony conspiracy"
      First, if the government is allowing every Radio Shack and Music store to run underground businesses, we have a much bigger issue than wireless mics. lol

      "Given the choice, you'd also rather reward people who conspire to break the law."
      Sorry, where is the conspiricy? The innocent people who bought them are the VICTIM not conspiritors.

      "And why should law-breaking squatters get preference over those that follow the law?"
      Ok, it is interesting you brought up squatting. As a matter of fact, according to basic law principles regarding squatting the FCC has given this spectrum away by inaction. (the concept is called the Doctrine of Laches and when it applies to real estate it is called Adverse Possession)

      I enjoy a good debate, it opens the mind, but please don't sensationalize what I say. (eg "Wait, so you are saying that you *want* people to be operating illegally")

      John

      P.S. I have not found any case law to show the innocent parties that bought wireless systems (because they were allowed by the FCC to be sold), were committing a crime.

  9. Rural Internet by synaptic · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Finally!

    Rural areas with rolling hills and trees have really limited options with regard to high-speed Internet access. Line of sight just wasn't one of nature's design goals. It's really difficult to have a cottage high-tech industry without the infrastructure to support it and the population density simply isn't there for the telcos to have any incentive to build it out.

    Your best bet is Wildblue with 750-1500ms latency and 256kbps upload speed. You get used to it but forget sharing say a vmware image or uploading anything of substantial size. If you spend the time to do it, you also face rate-limiting from WildBlue once you pass a bandwidth threshold. Let us not forget wiping the snow off the dish, throwing a trash bag over the lnb when it rains, and wiggling the dish when you lose signal.

    Sure, rural users can try to order a T1 but since the wired infrastructure isn't built out (else the telco would be offering high-speed services), you can bet on "special construction charges" of at least $4k on top of the $500/month service charge. ISDN? Same issue.

    What about getting a ham radio license? That's fine and all, provided you don't ever use encryption, don't mind people intercepting your data, and remember to identify your station periodically.

    The truth is that more than half of the country simply cannot acquire high-speed Internet access for a reasonable rate.

  10. Regulation isn't bad. by girlintraining · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They want to deregulate. Which means there will be no one authority to control these whitespaces. I don't think I need to explain what happens to an unmanaged network resource with multiple authorities competing; Multiple DHCP or domain controllers, etc.

    And no matter how you cut the bandwidth, there will be overhead, which increases as a function of the number of devices. While these devices may be logically separated, they are not physically separated, making the entire spectrum act like a hub-based network. And devices outside the range of other transcievers can still cause interference so long as the the device at the remote can hear that interference.

    So let me say that this is NOT A TECHNICAL PROBLEM. This is a tragedy of the commons problem. And it will be hugely exasperated in dense urban areas -- except on a larger footprint. Whereas before geographies with high densities of wifi devices could only interfere with each other up to a hundred meters or so, now we're talking about metro-wide interference. It'll be like CB radio, but for digital communication. And it will never compete with hardline installations like it could if it were regulated.

    This is the simple truth -- unless the FCC puts some form of regulation onto these bands prior to their first use, it's going to be a nightmare. It would be far better to license these bands for **non-profit use** (note I did NOT say non-commercial) somewhat like Ham radio, where people needed to aquire a license to transmit, and take classes, and have an ID associated with transmissions, and a regulatory body to monitor specious transmissions and revoke licenses or shut down non-compliant equipment as necessary. This plan stands the best chance of achiving a usable public, wireless, high speed network... which incidentally could carry internet traffic. Anything less, and all it takes is a few jerks with high power transmitters in an area to render the entire spectrum useless.

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    1. Re:Regulation isn't bad. by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 2, Informative

      Way to beat down on that straw man. So impressive. Not.

      Nobody is proposing total deregulation. The FCC has absolutely no intention of throwing open unlicensed TV bands to anybody to do anything. Nobody has asked them to, either. ('cept possible crackpots.) Whitespace devices will have wattage limits and spectrum width limits. Hell, even the TV stations themselves have wattage and spectrum limits. It's not going to be anarchy, any more than Wi-Fi frequencies are anarchic.

  11. Re:Not good by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2, Funny

    Just remember this the next time you are watching TV and the reporter's wireless microphone drops out

    What's not to like?

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  12. Parent makes important point! by anethema · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is actually a very important point. The wireless mic crowd has been a big opposition to the deregulation of these airwaves. The problem is they don't have a leg to stand on and the parent mentions why.

    These mic manufacturers are using a low power transmitter on licensed bands illegally and just hoping they will do ok. The thing is, the theatre companies and others using these devices are risking fines for the illegal use of this spectrum, because you are supposed to license a frequency if you intend to use it. If they get interference from a licensed transmitter, they don't have a leg to stand on.

    Now that the airwaves are going unlicensed (Like the ISM band we all love so much) they STILL don't have a leg to stand on. That they have been illegally using frequencies without an FCC license is no argument to prevent the FCC doing ANYTHING with this spectrum.

    If a large number of companies had went through the proper channels and gotten licenses on these frequencies, the vote may have gone another way.

    As it is...suck it up buttercup.

    --


    It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
  13. Re:Remember, it affects TV reception in fringe are by Chyeld · · Score: 2, Informative

    Since the devices are specifically designed NOT to do that and the only studies that say they will are the ones published by the companies fighting tooth and nail to kill this dead, I'd say you are talking FUD. It might be well meaning FUD, but its FUD all the same.

    Think about it, your TV is getting a strong enough digital signal that you aren't getting macro blocking routinely already, and yet this signal is suppose to be weak enough that the whitespace device can't see it?

    Even if the TV is between the tower and the device, if the device is near enough to interfere with reception it's probably near enough to pick up SOME signal, even if it's not a signal strong enough to play.

    And if we are talking about a long range signal from the device, the specs have already covered encoding your device so it knows what channels are suppose to be in use in the area and therefore will avoid them regardless of detection.