StarOffice Dropped From Google Pack

Barence writes "Sun's StarOffice suite has been mysteriously dropped from the Google Pack of free software. The office suite has been axed without any warning or explanation on the Google site. Is Google trying to drive more people towards its own online suite of office applications? Or has it been stung into action by Steve Ballmer's recent comment that Microsoft Office faces stronger competition from StarOffice than it does Google Docs and Spreadsheet?"

Comments

If there's one thing I wouldn't do...

[davidbrit2]

...It's use the frothing rants of Steve Ballmer as the basis of my business strategy.

Re:If there's one thing I wouldn't do...

[rodrigoandrade]

Unless your business strategy involves some future negotiations with Microsoft.

Re:If there's one thing I wouldn't do...

[Anonymous Coward]

In which case, you're obviously not an office furniture supplier.

Re:If there's one thing I wouldn't do...

[lbmouse]

When Ballmer talks... people *duck*.

Why not OpenOffice?

[Shin-LaC]

The answer might be obvious to the people involved in the project, but as an external observer I'm left to wonder why they were using StarOffice in the first place. Why not OpenOffice?

Re:Why not OpenOffice?

[Anonymous Coward]

StarOffice has some proprietary parts that couldn't be put into OpenOffice. In particular, Sun Microsystems licensed information about the format of Office files from Microsoft, to gain better compatibility.

Re:Why not OpenOffice?

[David Gerard]

"In particular, Sun Microsystems licensed information about the format of Office files from Microsoft, to gain better compatibility."

[citation needed]

Re:Why not OpenOffice?

[Drinking Bleach]

Last I checked, MS Office support in StarOffice was just as good/bad as it is in OpenOffice 2.0. I seriously doubt Microsoft would give anyone information about the MS Office formats -- this isn't exactly the days where WordPerfect and Lotus 1-2-3 rule the earth anymore.

Re:Why not OpenOffice?

[GIL_Dude]

You mean like this: http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/20/0420258, where they opened up the specifications on their binary formats? I understand there is some discussion on the terms - and whether they can be used by GPL projects or not - and I don't take a position on that (not being a lawyer). But, it certainly isn't true that they wouldn't give information about the formats to ANYONE. They certainly HAVE given them to people.

Re:Why not OpenOffice?

[radimvice]

[citation needed]

Anonymous Coward. "Re:Why not OpenOffice?" Weblog comment. 10 November 2008. "StarOffice Dropped From Google Pack." Timothy Lord. Slashdot. 10 November 2008 (http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1023681&cid=25702165).

Hope that helps~

It's obvious....

[i_want_you_to_throw_]

Google Apps. Google's only obligation since becoming a publicly traded company (GOOG) is this...

Making a profit for shareholders

Including StarOffice does nothing to that end.

Honestly why is anyone surprised when Google acts like a real company?

Re:It's obvious....

[noshellswill]

Classic short-sight! GOOGLES value largely depends on how web_usrs view it as an "honest broker". Usrs revalue the company every day. GOOGLE is one-button-click away from bankruptcy and that button must be considered & re-chosen constantly. Other buttons abound. It's not like GOOGLE makes toilet-seats.....

Re:It's obvious....

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

Honestly why is anyone surprised when Google acts like a real company?

Because they seldom do. Most of their services and applications are for free. Plus, if you are a heavy user of adblocker, you don't see their adds either. So its easy to forget that they aren't a non-for profit at times.

Support

[dreamchaser]

When an enterprise deploys office software they want at least some kind of support from the vendor.

Re:Support

[bmo]

What support?

Really, what support from the vendor? Have you /read/ your EULA for any software you've used? Ever?

YOYO.

You're On Your Own.

Every EULA should have "YOYO" printed at the top of the first page (typically of dozens) or just say "You're On Your Own" in 28 point type in the middle of a blank page. It would greatly simplify things.

That support myth is so old. I don't know which myth is older, that one or the "someone to sue" myth.

Seriously, stop repeating this bullshit.

Re:Support

[Khuffie]

The GP was right, though apparently he didnt know why. Most enterprise companies, when they deploy software, also purchase an extra support agreement for said software, usually from the vendor, sometimes from a 3rd party that provides support. Perhaps Star Office has said support from Sun whereas OpenOffice doesn't (not sure).

Re:Support

[morgan_greywolf]

Agreed. Most EULAs are pretty much this: a notice that states whether or not redistribution is allowed (usually it is not), a notice that states how many computers you can install it on, a notice that says not to reverse engineer it, and a complete disclaimer of all warranty and sometimes even a covenant not to sue.

You can, of course, usually purchase additional support, sometimes even warranty coverage.

How does this differ from free/open source software? Not at all. One can purchase support for any major free/open source software package and one can also often purchase some level of support for various small packages, in addition to free support for all widely used packages.

Re:Support

[blincoln]

Really, what support from the vendor? Have you /read/ your EULA for any software you've used? Ever?

I know it's popular on Slashdot to claim that vendor support doesn't exist, but if you work for a large customer of a particular vendor and ask intelligent questions of the right person working for that vendor, you will generally get good support.

In most situations, it doesn't make economic sense for everyone to have someone on staff who knows the ins and outs of every product they work with as well as a dedicated support person at the vendor does. I tend to get into the nuts and bolts of what I support a lot more than most people would, but there's only so much time in the day, and I support a *lot* of different software for my employer.

My experience has been that - while there are some vendors who have terrible support overall - generally it's just the first tier that's like that, to act as a buffer because most people who call their vendor's support line are not highly technical and only need basic support (IE something they could have learned from the manual). If you are willing to do the necessary investigation beforehand and put together a package of information (network captures, etc.) you will usually get good results.

Re:Support

[remmelt]

Is this very different from open source though? You can generally get good support from a mailing list if you ask the right questions. You could also buy some support at the developer's company or another OSS support firm.

The major difference is that for all the companies without enough clout to get something done at their software suppliers, support is generally nil, where anyone can ask questions on a mailing list or buy decent support.

Re:Support

[fatphil]

Loads of support:

1) There's an email address or telephone number where you make your request for support.
2) Someone will answer that within 3, or sometimes 7, working days to indicate they've received your request for support.

What more do you want?

Re:Support

[jellomizer]

The EULA is the legal responsibility to not support the product. Then you have the real reason to support the product. The fact that you paid for the current version and if they do not properly support the software chances are they will not purchase the next version. Hence future money in their pocket. Even the Mighty Microsoft needs to keep good relations with their customers. Even though they may have a monopoly on Office tools and OS's it is not a strong one. OpenOffice google docs, etc... May be good enough so if Microsoft really screws its customers it could loose its control. So if you have a big customer like GE and they request a feature they will probably support it. That being said there are a lot of people out there and many are very poorly trained consumers which makes getting what you want harder.

Bad Consumer Types.

1. The slave: They will pay the price because they think they don't have a choice. Nor will they put effort in finding alternatives. They may request a feature but the company realizes they are stuck thus no insensitive to give them the extra mile.
2. The Bully: These guys think they are suave capitalist, These guys call the support line with Anger and Guns a blazing. They think because the underpaid support guy is trying to be nice to him he will get his unreasonable request done sooner, not realizing once he hangs up his request goes into the crackpot list. These guys will never be happy and they may or may not purchase again however they are to unpredictable to support .
3. Hostage taker: They threaten they will not pay unless they get what they want, even if it is outside the contract. Thus not paying there forth a bad customer thus no support.
4. 
    

However good consumers are well aware what is out there. And are able to be nice enough to the company and employees to make them want to do business with you however they know if you are not satisfied there is a small gap until you switch. and if you are satisfied you can be an excellent customer and ally of the company.

Don't get fooled being a large company helps a lot as you have a lot of money to back it up thus allowing you be a bad consumer and they will still kiss you ass. But if you are a small customer even if you are demanding you may have more voice then you thought.

Now under Open Source Projects. You can put in requests for features or fixes. They may or may not get fixed, depends on who is maintaining the project. But for a lot of them, if the code isn't fun to make (a lot of features require a lot boring coding) or you just don't want to do it. It may not get in. Then they say if you want it code it yourself. Not caring the amount of time it takes to read and follow someone else code, especially for more complex applications. Or the person who needs the application isn't a programmer. And doesn't want to pay for someone to fix it. (costing on average 150% more to hire someone else to fix the problem then it takes to get the guy who made it originally to fix it.)

Re:Support

[Fujisawa Sensei]

On a mailing list you might not get a response back, or the response might not work and then they say sorry, can't help you. With a support contract, there's a method of escalation. I'm not saying that it works all the time, but it can sometimes help.

Sounds to me like you're saying that they're both as uncertain as each other - but I can pay for one? Wow, I'm sold.

I guess issue escalation processes and NDAs aren't worth anything to you.

staroffice?

[sdnoob]

was google PAYING sun for (the commercially licensed) staroffice? perhaps this is just the first step in replacing staroffice with (the free) openoffice to eliminate that (unnecessary) expense.

note that staroffice 8 is also over three years old (derived from openoffice 2.0), compared to openoffice 3, which was recently released... google could simply be moving to openoffice to stay more current with the software.

but i wouldn't put it past 'em to be removing it completely in order to drive users to their (less capable) web applications; as the article suggests. if they do not actually replace staroffice with another offline equivalent (e.g. openoffice), though, there may be some user backlash.

Re:staroffice?

[TheRaven64]

Or maybe they're following the IBM route, and making their own fork of OpenOffice.org, only in their case with better integration with Google apps (e.g. storing documents on their servers and sharing them via Google Apps).

Well, the important thing...

[Spasemunki]

is that we begin right away with the baseless speculation about which of many conspiracies is responsible for this omission. God forbid someone email someone at Google, or wait until they make a blog post or something.

Re:Well, the important thing...

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe we at Google like reading your nutty conspiracy theories. Don't stop on our behalf.

-- Eric Schmidt

Re:Well, the important thing...

[Daengbo]

I suggest we finger the GNAA guys as responsible for this one.

Doesn't make sense

[toxygen01]

How in the first place could have been staroffice included in "Google Pack of free software" when it's proprietary?

Re:It's because staroffice is slow and a resource

[Anonymous Coward]

Applications written in interpreted languages are for prototypes and programs that you don't run often.

Modern industry is held together by custom scripts.

For everyday use, you want something that loads fast, is responsive, and doesn't take bazillions of Mbytes from both your RAM and Disk Space,

I use a text editor, sc and awk; YMMV. Most people seem to use Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office which discounts your theory entirely.

I also think that Vista sucked because it's probably written in .NET, obviously.

Wrong although I can't disagree completely, Vista does suck!

Seems fairly obvious...

[biscuitlover]

Maybe Google are removing a competitor to their own office applications because... they are a competitor to their own office applications.

In order for Google to make any kind of inroads into Microsoft's customer base, they have to convince people that online apps are just as viable as their offline counterparts. So providing an offline office suite in the Google Pack - ostensibly to keep the doubters happy - might be considered by some to be an admission that Google Docs won't do the job.

What Google should do

[teslatug]

Google should develop a really good plugin for OpenOffice.org that makes it a client for Google Docs. It should handle uploading, downloading, synchronizing, merging conflicts, etc. That would scare MS off a lot more, and it would actually make both OOo and Google Docs more useful.

Why not axe Norton first?

[MazzThePianoman]

Forget about StarOffice, axe Norton Security Scan. I am wondering why they are having anything to do with Norton who makes the most bloated, resource wasting, performance sucking, software on the planet. There are better solutions out there that don't kill the usability of your computer.

How were they giving it away in the first place?

[sorak]

How were they giving it away in the first place? If you go to Sun's website and try to download Star Office normally, it's $70. So how was Google able to give it away for free, and why isn't "sun wanted cash" a possible explanation for Google dropping the product?

Re:It's because staroffice is slow and a resource

[Fred_A]

What do you think OpenOffice is written in ?? BASIC ? Perl ? Intercal ?

(Hint : it uses this esoteric language that has a name that starts with C and ends with ++)

Re:It's because staroffice is slow and a resource

[Fred_A]

Java?

Not especially. You can write extensions in a number of languages. Java is used in a few peripheral tools such as the database glue layers. The core stuff is C++.

Re:How were they giving it away in the first place

[H0p313ss]

How were they giving it away in the first place? If you go to Sun's website and try to download Star Office normally, it's $70. So how was Google able to give it away for free, and why isn't "sun wanted cash" a possible explanation for Google dropping the product?

Don't bring logic into this, that way leads only to madness.

Re:How were they giving it away in the first place

[master811]

To add to that, if you are a 'student or work in Education' you can also download it from free here: http://www.sun.com/products-n-solutions/edu/solutions/staroffice.html#StarOffice

Some user backlash

[nurb432]

Ya, for about 5 minutes. The attention span of a typical user today is a 30 minute sitcom.

Give it a couple of weeks and people will forget it was even an option.

Microsoft Signs MSN Toolbar Deal With Sun

[Vandil X]

Here's why!

Microsoft Signs MSN Toolbar Deal With Sun

Google caught wind of a Microsoft/Sun deal.

It's still downloadable from Google...

[nathana]

...as I point out here.

-- Nathan

Sun's deal with MS probably prompted this

[hakawati]

Sun just signed an agreement to distribute the MS Search bar with it's java download http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/10/sun_stows_ms_search_on_java/ I would guess this has a lot to do with Google not promoting the StarOffice suite anymore.

The word processors.

[ChrisMaple]

I used Microsoft Word, 7 years ago. It was much more powerful then than Open Office is now. Google Docs is hopeless; it can't even read a sophisticated .doc file correctly.

Word can do things like a color gradient side border with rotated text that are hideously difficult or impossible with other editors.

I'm trying to make a sharp-looking resume. I am continually frustrated in my efforts by Open Office. I can't put text where I want it, I can't put horizontal lines where I want them, I can't get font sizes to print as they look on the screen (or to print or display the same size as Word prints and displays the same TrueType font.) I'm going to have to buy the Microsoft product to get the results I want, and that displeases me. Some employers require resumes in Word format, and the Open Office .doc format output doesn't always work.