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Multiple Upcoming Games, Movies Based On Jordan's Wheel of Time

Today film studio Red Eagle Entertainment announced plans to establish Red Eagle Games, a studio that will produce games based on Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. The games will be developed alongside movie adaptations of the series, which Red Eagle announced a few months ago. They'll be working with Universal on the films. "[Red Eagle producer Rick] Selvage said in an interview that the game company will make a series of games that will be co-launched with the movies. In addition, Red Eagle Games will make a massively multiplayer online game based on the Wheel of Time universe." Wheel of Time fan site 'Dragonmount' recently spoke with Selvage about the movie plans.

55 of 217 comments (clear)

  1. But Can They Do It Justice? by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I am surprised as I haven't been following this news since Jordan's death. I will say I am excited as I picked up Eye of the World for a quarter at a used bookstore in high school. I've been a huge fan ever since but have often wondered if there is any possible way a game or movie can do this series justice.

    Wheel of Time has such extensive (sometimes laboriously so) plot lines running in tandem and across multiple characters that may not cross for thousands of pages. Can this be set in film successfully? The introspection of the characters when you're seeing things from their points of view ... the political games ... the extensive dream sequences ... keeping the dream world and waygates straight ... so much they could get wrong!

    In truth, I wondered the same of George R. R. Martin's Song of Fire & Ice series recently licensed by HBO. I guess we'll see if they can do that series justice as well.

    As for the games, I was a bit disappointed with the 1999 version which was basically a Hexen engine playing as an Aes Sedai in one of the Ajahs. A visually pleasing game, though. I certainly hope they do better with The Wheel of Time MMOs & don't dish me another buggy clone like Lord of the Rings or Warhammer.

    Red Eagle & Universal, please don't screw this up! Disclaimer: I am a Perrin fan.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:But Can They Do It Justice? by sqlrob · · Score: 4, Informative

      I remember reading a review of the demo, apparently of someone who hadn't read the books. "Pretty fog effects. Why am I taking damage?" This was in Shadar Logoth. When I played, the reaction was slightly different - "Fog? RUN!!!!".

      This game was why I got a 3D accelerator, but it was delayed many, many times. Fun, I finished it, but nothing memorable.

    2. Re:But Can They Do It Justice? by Verteiron · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The single-player mode of the old WoT game was well-scripted and made good use of effects, but was not otherwise particularly memorable (except for Shadar Logoth, which was creepy as hell and scared me multiple times). The MULTI-player, though... incredible. There was an insane amount of depth to it, because everything (except balefire of course) had a counter. The "TING" sound of a Seeker or Decay locking on to me still makes me twitch. When you'd hear it, you'd start running like mad, trying to find the right shield to absorb it, or better yet, reflect it back at the caster, and all the while it was chasing you, moving faster and faster... then you found someone dropped a Legion right on top of the Unravel. GAH!

      Good times.

      --
      End of lesson. You may press the button.
    3. Re:But Can They Do It Justice? by nschubach · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I certainly hope they do better with The Wheel of Time MMOs & don't dish me another buggy clone like Lord of the Rings or Warhammer

      You can hope all you like, but it's not going to happen. I'm firmly under the belief that all MMOs for the near future will be cookie cutter clones of each other. They will all attempt to drag out the game for as long as possible with needless time sinks, poor stories, even worse level curves, maps made for the quick jaunt in and out, porting all over the land, and prefab classes with prefab progression.

      Hate to be a cynic... but it's what I've seen going through 20 (or more) different MMOs looking for one that's different. So far it's been a waste of time and money. I'd be very surprised to see one in the near future that actually tries to break the common mold.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    4. Re:But Can They Do It Justice? by butalearner · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Honestly, if they try to turn the book's events into a game, it will probably tank, as per usual. RJ was painfully meticulous in his description of events in the book, and developing a game within such strict limitations will not succeed, at least not with the fans who've read the series on multiple occasions.

      What they should really do is set a game earlier than what is described in detail in the books, say when one of the false dragons was around. That way there is plenty of conflict, but the game designers have much more leeway on the events and story in the game.

    5. Re:But Can They Do It Justice? by Miseph · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Or, even better, run each Age for one year. Give a certain number of random players the potential to become the Dragon, but don't tell anyone who they are, ESPECIALLY the people who might be. Players who are in at the beginning of the Age have a better chance of being the Dragon, ta'veren (although I suppose it would also make sense if ALL players were ta'veren), or at least having some special plot role (ie. they could end up like Moirraine, finding the Dragon or other key players by virtue of their awesomeness), but players who join in partway through benefit from a world which is less of a clusterfuck in terms of nobody having any clue what the hell is happening and being able to just drop in on whatever side they like and have at the powers that be.

      Obviously, certain things would have to be put into the game to ensure a given Age goes off interestingly, like reliable ways for people to find the Dragon (or at least potential Dragons), compelling incentives to form in-game factions to support Dragons and ta'veren, and ways to ensure that the "randomly" selected players are unlikely to simply fall off of the planet's face.

      I'd also be a big fan of a full reset at the beginning of each age, perhaps with perks given to previous high-level characters, but nothing that cannot be overcome by a talented newcomer. of course, I also just get sick of the perpetual suck of not being one of the first hundred people to sign on and always getting stomped by people who will always be bigger and badder just because they've been around longer.

      --
      Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
    6. Re:But Can They Do It Justice? by nschubach · · Score: 2, Insightful

      EQ was my first. I spent years in the world and it never got old. The classes all had purpose, the spells all didn't. (minor illusion was the best, right next to the mages ability to summon things for their pets and fireworks.) Night was actually dark, you could see what a mob was carrying, drive by buffs were the best present anyone could offer...

      Not to mention, EQ had dungeons worth going into. They were not easy to get into, nor easy to get out of. As much as everyone hated trains, everyone knew to get out of the way when they were coming. (And there was a way out. Not all the dungeons were linear roller coaster rides with only one path.)

      In the early days of EQ, Fine Steel was where it was at. You were lucky to get Combine stuff. There's just so much that I remember about EQ and so much I forget about all these other MMOs that keep popping up.

      Oh, and Faction! Being able to align with the gnolls and visit their merchant. It was a minor victory to be sure, but it was an option.

      So much of that game was memorable. You will probably say it was because it was my first MMO, but it was more than that though. It was more than any one single player RPG ever was.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    7. Re:But Can They Do It Justice? by ultranova · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What they should really do is set a game earlier than what is described in detail in the books, say when one of the false dragons was around. That way there is plenty of conflict, but the game designers have much more leeway on the events and story in the game.

      Or set it during the War of Power. You must lead your unit during the war; then, when the Dark One is imprisoned and the Breaking of the World begins, it becomes a desperate race to safe as much of the civilization as possible before it's destroyed by the maddened Aes Sedai. Slashdot archives must not perish !

      Or make it "Populous: the Dark Side" - you play the Dark One and need to sow as much destruction as possible to feed your power, break free, and remake the world. I wonder what Jack Thompson would say about a game where you do get points for rape and murder ?-)

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  2. Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar by negRo_slim · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Red Eagle Games will make a massively multiplayer online game based on the Wheel of Time universe.

    Because if there's anything the PC gaming market really needs, it's another MMO.

    --
    On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
    1. Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar by PotatoFarmer · · Score: 4, Funny

      On the other hand, can you think of any other book series so perfectly suited to the MMO genre? At least the developers can claim that the endless grinding through repetitive content, thousands of minor characters nobody cares about, and people constantly coming back after being killed is true to the source material.

    2. Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar by ShakaUVM · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >>we can look forward to a few Twin Peaks sequels!

      Or a Twin Peaks MMORPG.

      Hmm.

      Couldn't be any more horrendous than the current crops of MMORPGs.

      IMO, what made the old school MUDs better than MMORPGs is that players (when they hit a certain level) were oftentimes allowed to make new dungeons. So as your playerbase went up, so did the amount of content available. It's an idea that I'd love to see get transferred to one of the major MMOs.

    3. Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar by Jesus_666 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I really hope there's going to be a "pull braid" emote, and of course "don't understand other gender". If they want to be really adventurous, high-level players might even get "pull braid (other person)", although that's a pretty bold interpreteation of established lore.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
  3. Featuring by Arramol · · Score: 5, Funny

    Featuring exciting braid-pulling and skirt-smoothing mini-games!

  4. How Many Movies?!?! by aplato · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder how many movies there are going to be? Hopefully I'm still alive when the last one comes out(if they ever wrap the series).

    1. Re:How Many Movies?!?! by butalearner · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Considering that books 6-10 describe what happens over a span of about 3 days, there won't need to be nearly so many movies.

    2. Re:How Many Movies?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hm... The Lord of the Rings turned into three movies (one for each book). So in that case ca. 3 hours movie out of 300 pages of the book.

      In comparison the Wheel of Time consists of 12 books (13th coming sometime?) each with roughly 600-1000 pages IIRC.

      So if 100pages = 1hour, we'll get (600-1000) * 12 / 100 = 72-120 hours of movies?

      Or roughly the Lord of the Rings movies times twelve...

    3. Re:How Many Movies?!?! by ronwolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're kidding right? Most of those later books can be compressed into about 14 paragraphs.

    4. Re:How Many Movies?!?! by Random+BedHead+Ed · · Score: 5, Funny

      I wonder how many movies there are going to be? Hopefully I'm still alive when the last one comes out(if they ever wrap the series).

      They'll probably start out with a clear story arc and a plan to make six or seven very good films that wow audiences, then just belt out a few extra ones that focus largely on minor characters that viewers don't care about while ignoring the compelling story that got everyone interested in the first place. Universal will then go out of business when there's only one movie left to make, and Paramount will take over and expect us all to believe their conclusion is a valid part of the series.

      (If you can't decide whether to mod this funny, mod it insightful or just stomp off and cry into your pile of dead-end hardcovers, you must be a disgruntled Robert Jordan fan.)

    5. Re:How Many Movies?!?! by filthpickle · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Thanks for the laugh.

      I made it thru Crown of Swords...but mainly because of being too stubborn to admit to myself that I was getting sick of it. Had to do a cross country road trip several years later and got the audiobook for Winters Heart thinking I would catch up that way...

      Somewhere in Kansas in the middle of the night I decided that it was so tedious and boring that I threw it out the window in disgust. I admit that it might have had something to do with driving thru Kansas...you can't do that alone and stay sane.

      I think I reached a point where I just DESPISED every female character in that book.

    6. Re:How Many Movies?!?! by Architect_sasyr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are 11 books, 12th on the way. Everybody here seems to think there are 13. There are not. There are TWELVE. (This is bugging the hell out of me). The "New Spring" book is a prequel and is not part of the series, it was even written out of order.

      --
      Me failed English...
      FreeBSD over Linux. If my comments seem odd, this may explain...
    7. Re:How Many Movies?!?! by Phrogman · · Score: 2

      Ah but if they remove all the references to the female character who constantly pulls on her braids we can condense it down into just about 25 hrs of film.

      I can't remember her name. But the memory of the author telling us she was fiddling with her hair every 10 sentences has remained forever in my mind as the poster child for how not to assign a recognizable characteristic to a character, then abuse it far too often.

      I read the first few books and honestly wanted to like them but they were just so badly written and the characters were so flat and boring that I gave up around book 5. Matt is the only character I can recall liking a lot. Jordan seemed to just be padding them to sell more books and not getting to the meat of the story and he was an awful writer IMHO. That said, I did enjoy what I read much more than I enjoyed the Thomas Covenant books :P

      --
      "The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
    8. Re:How Many Movies?!?! by aussie_a · · Score: 2, Funny

      There was a definite end. It was called Tarmon Gai'den. Sheeesh.

    9. Re:How Many Movies?!?! by Nasarius · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think I reached a point where I just DESPISED every female character in that book.

      That's exactly how I felt. I always got the impression that Jordan was trying to write strong female characters, but didn't have the slightest clue how one would actually behave. Instead of coming across as strong or sympathetic, they were just fucking obnoxious. And all *exactly* the same. Cadsuane (had to look up the name on Wiki) was the last straw.

      Oh, and the bizarre sexual fantasy feeling to it: women spanking each other, humiliating men, and happily coexisting in a polygamous relationship.

      --
      LOAD "SIG",8,1
    10. Re:How Many Movies?!?! by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hmm.. 3 days.. Well, that is 72 hours. Can make quite a few movies to cover 72 hours.

      An epic fantasy shot in the style of 24. I do not know if I should be horrified or intrigued.

    11. Re:How Many Movies?!?! by ShakaUVM · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >>disastrously bad sequels and prequels by Herbert and Anderson.

      You mean Sanderson?

      Obviously AMoL isn't out yet, but every book he's written to date has been bloody brilliant.

      He's not Jordan, sure. He might not use Jordan's attention to ridiculously unimportant detail, or Jordan's reuse of every plot thread multiple times, or Jordan's complete inability to handle plot and multiple viewpoints, but... oh wait, yeah. They'll probably actually be pretty good.

  5. Loot The Copyright!!! by Ostracus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Jordan is barely even cold, the 13th book hasn't been published yet, and everyone is already clambering to get wrist deep into his creative work and exploit it."

    Good thing we don't have life plus 70 years so the heirs could defend his "property".

    --
    Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
    1. Re:Loot The Copyright!!! by cbhacking · · Score: 2, Informative

      Presumably the parent is including New Spring (the prequel) in his count. I've personally felt for a long time that the series should be 13 books (13 being a rather significant number in the WoT universe) and was disappointed that the last book would be numbered 12 (also wondered how one book could wrap up all the open storylines AND fight Tarmon Gai'don). That said, counting New Spring it's 13 books and as long as the final book (whatever it's number) is good, I'll be satisfied. I'll need to re-read the whole thing ahead of time, though....

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    2. Re:Loot The Copyright!!! by rvw14 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I looks like the final "book" may be released in 2 separate volumes. So in a way there will be 13.

    3. Re:Loot The Copyright!!! by coolsnowmen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      no, and I quote:
      "...The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time."

    4. Re:Loot The Copyright!!! by ShakaUVM · · Score: 2, Insightful

      According to Ryan Dancey (one of WOTC's ex-vice presidents) when I talked to him years ago, was that Robert Jordan actually pitched the series as a series that would never end. He could just keep churning out product, and people would keep buying it, indefinitely.

      Or, I guess, until he died.

  6. Oblig. Princess Bride by Kemanorel · · Score: 2, Funny

    From IMDB.

    Miracle Max: Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do.
    Inigo Montoya: What's that?
    Miracle Max: Go through his clothes and look for loose change

    Well, so much for hoping he was mostly dead. Didn't take them long to start trying to shake that money tree... Although, I think the movies were in the works for some time before he passed.

    --
    Mess not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
  7. Does anyone still even care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seriously..? I started reading the Wheel of Time many years ago, and while the first book was pretty good, subsequent books became increasingly self indulgent, whiney, and so meandering that the story barely advanced. By about book 5, most of the characters were so un-likeable that I could not longer relate to/empathize with them. This has to be one of the most dissapointing series that I have ever read.

    CAPTCH: bleeder, as in "you miserable..."

  8. You can't finish the game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Unfortunately the game is impossible to finish, because it dynamically generates more and more new mini-games, side quests, and bosses as the player gets closer to the end.

    1. Re:You can't finish the game by Gideon+Fubar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is a workaround, but it involves throwing your computer out the window.

      --
      http://www.xkcd.com/354/
  9. how? by skam240 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How on earth are they going to condense down as much material as is in one of those books (let alone the whole series) into a movie without leaving out half the story? The Lord of the Rings books are half the size of Jordan's and each of those movies were over three hours long and still left some good stuff out.

    --
    I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
    1. Re:how? by xstonedogx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Easy.

      Jordan goes on and on about setting. Not a problem for film.
      Jordan repeats himself over and over regarding character interactions. Easily condensed.
      Jordan constantly writes about his characters pulling their braids, smoothing their skirts, etc. They can all do those things at the same time while the story is moving along.
      Jordan has described the internal processes of wielding the One Power a million times. In film they'll just replace it with a fancy CGI or call it "metachlorians" (credit a poster above).
      Jordan thinks any character ever seen in a book needs a name. They can save about 5 hours just by not naming all their extras.
      The last four or so books in the series will probably fit on a single page of the script.
      And finally, Jordan didn't finish. There's a good 30 minutes out of the film right there.

    2. Re:how? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2, Funny

      Jordan thinks any character ever seen in a book needs a name. They can save about 5 hours just by not naming all their extras.
      The last four or so books in the series will probably fit on a single page of the script.
      And finally, Jordan didn't finish. There's a good 30 minutes out of the film right there.

      Haha. I can see it now. They get all the right people with all the right motivations working on it. They create a movie that is tight, well-paced, dramatic, exciting, all while being faithful to the source material. Both fans of the books and newcomers are loving it, getting more and more into it with every minute. Then, right after a wipe ending a minor scene, BAM! the credits start rolling. Howls of rage rise from the theater as torches (where did those come from?) are lit and pitchforks raised, and there's rioting in the streets.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    3. Re:how? by Bensam123 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'd settle for nothing less then three movies per book, but we all know that's not going to happen.

      Honestly I wish this series was picked up by a animation studio in Japan. There are just some things you can't do without it becomming a series and there is more then enough material there to actually have a couple hundred meaningful episodes. There also are just somethings you can't produce in real life. Good anime bridges the gap between stories, art, and a visual picture.

  10. Red Eagle's Reliability.. by srothroc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Isn't Red Eagle the company that was producing the Wheel of Time comic but ended up stopping because of financial reasons? I'd hesistate to invest money in playing a MMO funded by them unless I knew it was going to be around for a while.

  11. Re:Loot The Corpse!!! by decipher_saint · · Score: 3, Insightful

    FREAKING AWESOME. I will joyously see every movie about the series no matter what kind of steaming pile they are. I'll probably buy most of the games too. Probably not the MMORPG though...

    That's the kind of thinking that leads to a wisecracking CG animated Jamaican sidekick to a newly midichlorian fuelled Rand al'Thor.

    --
    crazy dynamite monkey
  12. Re:Karma whore time by moderatorrater · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wiki links are only useful when there's a chance that somebody reading the article hasn't heard of the series. I can talk to non-nerds and they still know what the series is, even if they don't know much about it.

    I guess what I'm getting at is that you'll have to turn in your nerd card.

  13. Re:A series for the ages... by LandDolphin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I personally feel that he made a wonderfully detailed world that had more going on in it then every character focused on one single point. I'd rather have one really good series then several smaller series with much less defined worlds.

    --
    Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
  14. As long as they don't "Dragon of the Lance" it by Allah · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As long as they don't "animize" it like they did the new Dragon of the Lance animation movie. BLECH!

  15. It would be a miracle if they did it justice by IdahoEv · · Score: 4, Funny

    Because "doing it justice" would mean somehow designing a game where the the more you play, the further away end gets!

    That would require some impressive new technology, to say the least...

    --
    I stole this sig from someone cleverer than me.
    1. Re:It would be a miracle if they did it justice by omnipresentbob · · Score: 3, Informative

      That would require some impressive new technology, to say the least...

      It's not new, there's been several ventures into this arena. See this article for more information.

  16. Look at the bright side... by raehl · · Score: 3, Informative

    At least late-game repetitive time-sinks will be source-material accurate.

  17. Re:Closure by lilomar · · Score: 3, Informative

    Speaking of which... the third (and last) Mistborn book just came out in hardback. If you have never read anything of Sanderson's, do yourself a favor - go out and buy the first one. Make sure you have some cash left over, though, because, if you are anything like me, you will be back in the bookstore the next day, after having stayed up all night to finish, buying the other two (and anything else of his you can get your hands on).

    Mistborn is the best low-fantasy I have ever read, and it's close to the top of my best fantasy in general list.

    --
    The creator of this post (Jacob Smith) hereby releases it, and all of his other posts, into the public domain.
  18. Re:Song of Ice and Fire by filthpickle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you've read Wheel of Time, you should try Song of Ice and Fire.

    couldn't agree more. If you've read WoT in total or part (esp in part) and not SoIaF you should really pick it up.

    my favorite thing about that series is how he leaves all the pieces in play...you can't just assume that someone won't die because they are a main char.

  19. Re:Loot The Corpse!!! by jjohnson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Oh please. By the fifth book, Jordan was already wrist deep in skullfucking his own creative property by recycling storylines and padding word counts with endless descriptions of wardrobe. They're doing nothing but carrying on a tradition Jordan started himself.

    --
    Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
  20. Re:A series for the ages... by cbhacking · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My feelings exactly. Take the world that WoT is most often compared to, LotR. There are certainly lots of parallels - Middle Earth is huge, there are lots of different nations with their own history, traditions, culture, and appearance, and the author crafted each with an incredible attention to detail. However, reading through the books (never mind watching the movies) in LotR doesn't give NEARLY as much a feel of the setting as WoT does. In WoT I can imagine the parts of the cities, the look of the farms, and the speech of the people - even for specific settings that were never visited. Without reading a lot of the LotR background, I've found this not nearly as easy to do. It's just not as immersive.

    There's a lot more to this comparison, but I think I'll stop here.

    --
    There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
  21. Re:A series for the ages... by fatboyslack · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes but LotR added a lot of that story in notes, appendices and additional books that weren't part of the main story.

    I read all 11 books ... and I'll probably read the 12th but since I read the 11th I've read all of GRR Martin's 'A song of fire and ice' series which completely blows away any other fantasy series I've read before or since and WoT really suffers in comparison.

    --
    Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. -- Leo Tolstoy
  22. Re:A series for the ages... by filthpickle · · Score: 2, Insightful

    LotR doesn't give NEARLY as much a feel of the setting as WoT

    well...I think that Tolkien was leaving it up to your imagination....because he could have told you several thousand more pages....but didn't want to.

  23. Re:Closure by spiralx · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yes it will - RJ had already written the ending and several other key elements before he died, as well as dictate the overall plot of the book.

  24. Re:Loot The Corpse!!! by Abcd1234 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    wrist deep in skullfucking

    Umm... I'm pretty sure that's not how skullfucking works...

  25. Re:Loot The Corpse!!! by jjohnson · · Score: 2, Informative

    Pffft. Maybe not the way you do it, amateur.

    --
    Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.