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Fun Things To Do With a Math Or Science Degree?
bxwatso writes "My niece just took the ACT and got a perfect score on the math section. 25 years ago, when I took the test, the kids who aced the math section were pretty special. Her score, combined with straight A's so far in high school, suggest to me that she might be able to go to a top university (MIT?) based on her math aptitude. The rub is that she doesn't like math or science, even though she finds them easy. She doesn't want to be an engineer or scientist. I thought the folks here would be a great group to ask: What are some creative, not too nerdy professions that nonetheless require a talent for math, engineering, or science?"
Well you could ball it up and try and shoot it into a waste basket from a distance.
Make it into a paper aeroplane.
Burn it
Origami perhaps..
Yeah, that's all the fun things I can think of doing with a degree...
With her mathematical/scientific aptitude and overall intellectual capability, there's one very simple and satisfying career choice!
-- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
Most prerequisites for medicine (or dentistry, veterinary medicine, or chiropractic school) are science classes. If she does well as math and science, she may way to consider those paths.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
At my mid-level university, one quarter of all students who made it past the second year in my rigorous program had perfect scores on both sections. The test really isn't that difficult these days, and even a moderate amount of targeted prep combined with a targeted curriculum puts you in a strong position; put her in a Putnam and we'll see what she's made of. MIT is the sort of unpleasant experience that should be reserved for those who genuinely want it.
Mastering the advanced concepts in Math and science is a lot more involved then High School. So if there is no interest, brilliance now could translate into mediocrity.
You could explain to her that neither math nor science in general is a `nerdy' profession, that she will outgrow her adolescence and that she will very soon hardly remember the names of her high school classmates. That there are peers out there to be had that are considerably more valuable than those who might have instilled in her that fear of nerdiness. That, in fact, she should do whatever it is she may want to do.
You mentioned what she's good at. Try to find out what she likes and see if there's a match there. Sure, she's got the potential, but if she's not happy doing it - even if she follows it through, she's doing it for the wrong reasons. She'll probably not be happy doing it.
As do most women in programming and the games industry which is why I find it ridiculous to pander to all this women in the games industry bullshit.
Let her do what she wants.
If she enjoys psychology (or at maybe at this point just liked to talk on the phone a lot) she may want to consider that as a possibility. Research psych requires a lot of statistical and analytical skills
Seriously. It's her life. As long as it's legal, ethical, and either it pays the bills, it doesn't matter if she's a garbage collector or a business tycoon. Yes, it may be better for society if she were to somehow use her talents, but if her interests lie elsewhere support her in her chosen path.
Give her your love, your emotional support, and to the extent you can and she needs it, practical/cash support.
Now, if you'd said she's trying to make up her mind between a math/engineering profession and one that doesn't require those skills, then I would strongly recommend steering her in the direction that her talents lie. But from your submission, it sounds like she's made up her mind.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Anything. Math is the basis for biology, music, the arts (even if that math looks like chaos theory) and just about everything except (and maybe not except) philosophy. Actuary... Pay the "dues" for a few years then make big dollars and having been bored to tears the first years, get to figure out interesting problems. Like the likelihood of a death on a space trip to Mars. Useful in telling NASA how much their insurance will cost. Try to avoid being the bean counter set where you have the job of balancing law suit payouts versus thickness and grade of metal in vehicle gas tanks... But the MBA or PHD in economics from say Wharton combined with a bachelors in compsci, hard sciences, engineering, or even physics would put her a world ahead.
- Tjp
I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!
what does "elementary education" have to do with math or science degrees?
in any case, if the ACTs are anything like the SATs then they're more of an indicator of general academic aptitude (including test-taking skills) rather than a measure of math ability, writing ability, etc. that's not to say that getting a perfect SAT/ACT score isn't impressive, and there's certainly a correlation between good students and good SAT/ACT scores. but they're not an indicator of intelligence--though they might be an indicator of college-preparedness. for instance, i have several friends who scored lower than me on the SATs who i know for a fact are much smarter than i am.
also, in my experience maths and sciences don't become very challenging until you get to about college undergraduate level material. and i don't think the SATs/ACTs really test for scholastic aptitude beyond 9th or 10th grade high school course material. a better indicator of whether a student excels at math/science would be the AP exams, which do cover things like calculus and college-level physics.
it's quite easy to excel in high school algebra & geometry, but the learning curve really shoots up once you get to multi-variable calculus/linear algebra or discrete mathematics. so you really shouldn't push a student into a math/science field that they're not interested in just because they find the high school material very easy. because once you get to college level courses, it quickly becomes a completely different story. and at that point it's vital that the student be interested in what he/she is studying, otherwise they won't have the drive to push ahead and will quickly get burnt out.
that said, the reason a student might not be interest in math/science in high school could be due to their high school math & science curricula not being challenging enough to hold their interest. if she isn't in AP classes then perhaps she should try to take some math/science courses at a local community college. that will help to expose her to what college-level maths & sciences are really like, which she might find more interesting. also, i think it's a bad idea to treat college as a trade school or vocational training. students should be free to take classes that pique their interest and follow academic pursuits that they enjoy. once you've found your niche and finish college, you can then decide where best to apply your acquired skills. otherwise you might as well go to a technical school.
I'm pretty good at math, but don't particularly like it. Also, science is cool and I like reading about it, but it has always looked like a pretty dreary profession.
Basically, though, math skills are indicative of structured, logical thought. That is useful everywhere.
Don't push her into something just because she's good at it. Let her do whatever she wants. If she's smart, she'll probably be fine.
There is no math section on the ACT. It is a computation section that they call math. On the GRE it is called quantitative. University mathematics programs end up with many students who think they are good at math until they hit algebra and analysis and wonder what the hell happened. They tend to go on to become math teachers.
When I was in grad school the best predictor of success in mathematics PhD programs was verbal GRE score, but nobody advises students who score perfect on the English portion of the ACT to think about being a mathematician. I wonder why that is.
She doesn't want to be an engineer or scientist. I thought the folks here would be a great group to ask
You are better off asking her what she wants to do. What is she interested in? If she has no idea then going to a large university where she'll be exposed to a number of different fields and opportunities is not a bad idea.
I'm a woman who aced the math ACT but didn't feel like studying math or science. I was into foreign languages. So now I have a bachelor's in Spanish and a master's in French literature, and I'm a web developer. Go figure.
What might have convinced me to study one of the hard sciences is seeing people actually at work using them. If I had met any pharmaceutical researchers or civil engineers or software developers and seen what they do at work every day, I might have found it more interesting. As it was, I had no frame of reference for working with math or science, and therefore no interest.
Graduate level economics is almost indistinguishable from graduate level math (or physics)
This is not true (and fortunately, thank god, functional analysis while applicable in theory, has little to say about relevant real world economics). People who say econ is no different from math, obviously haven't taken a serious pure math course. Graduate economics is somewhat technical and quantitative but is not rigorous or formal enough to be confused with a branch of mathematics (unless you take an advanced theory course, which is not representative of the field as a whole). At the same time, there is not enough dynamical systems in it to be confused with physics (I took a bunch of econ courses, and didn't have to solve one differential equation). But yes, econ a very quantitative, and so math,stat, or physics majors could feel at very comfortable in an econ program.
I don't know exactly how it's in the USA, but in my country (Austria, EU ;) ) high school math is like learning how to drive a car and university level math is like learning how to build a car.
You should be able to drive a car when you build one, but beyond that don't expect it to be the same.
I am currently in med school and I am thinking about quitting and doing math instead. (Med school is 6 years here and not like the pro school concept in the USA. So I don't have a BS degree yet)
And I've seen quite a few people who were great at Highschool math but quit the university within a few weeks, months top. It were the kind of people who didn't know what to do with their life, at that point. They thought, well you can earn lots of money with math so go study it.
My point: Don't push her into anything just because of her Highschool grades.
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Wow, marketing is put forward as a serious alterative to scientific pursuits, and is +4 informative. I never thought I'd see the day slashdot. News for Nerds, Stuff that matters.
I absolutely agree with this comment. I'm from the UK and I suffered the same fate that you wish to throw upon your daughter - being coerced into a specific degree program at a top London university just because I excelled in that area in my secondary (high) school, without realising myself what a change it would be from the material I had learnt thus far through my life. It certainly didn't do me any favours.
/like/ to do - see all the other degrees and/or career paths your daughter could take, excel in and enjoy and still lead a successful life at the end of it. It'll be like a voyage of discovery for you! - finding out what professions are good for your daughter, instead of the professions you can push her into despite her distaste for them.
I am trundling along. I appear to have the required intelligence in order to complete my degree (or so I hope!) but damn is that learning curve STEEP.
Other than that, it strikes me odd that you can't come up with some viable and interesting options yourself. Basically, unless your daughter wants to be an elementary school maths teacher, she's probably going to be surrounded by it 24/7 for the rest of her life (researcher, anyone?). If she's not going to enjoy it, please, don't make her do it - and that includes cajoling her into believing it's the only thing she's possibly good at.
Instead of asking what you have here, I suggest you ask your daughter what she'd
Good luck.
I live only for the present moment, there is no other moment.
The tough thing for high schoolers trying to choose a college, major, FUTURE, etc. is that they usually have no *clue* what they'd like to do in the real world, because they haven't had much contact with it.
The vast majority of science and math education for a high schooler is learning how to jump through mental hoops and regurgitate information to pass exams. There's a big gap between studying a subject in school and *using* the skills related to a subject in a job somewhere.
A lot of job satisfaction lies in working with people you respect, who respect you for playing an important role in fulfilling whatever goal the company has. The tasks you perform should also ideally fall into a comfort zone where you're using your talents without being in way over your head.
I tend to think most kids will do best with a broad education with as many internships, etc. as possible, so they can try out different kinds of work environments.
The highschooler in question might end up using math in her job -- if she's good at it, that part will go easily -- and may well be extremely interested if she's interested in the goal she's actually accomplishing. Why would she need to be interested in jumping through hoops?
Instead of asking what you have here, I suggest you ask your daughter what she'd /like/ to do
Excellent point — I myself was pressed into (natural) 'science' because math was easy to me, which in the long run (decades) turned out to be a major desaster that I am still trying to recover from.
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
As someone who is starting a math grad program next year and got an 800 on the GRE verbal, I can't tell you how happy I am to hear you say that :-) Boasting aside, I have always felt that people miss out on the distinction between mathematics and computation. Performing mathematical operations sequentially to arrive at an answer, a la a computer, is what you do on the SAT (and I assume the ACT as well.) This is a very different feat from sitting down with a math book and trying to wrap your ahead around a theoretical concept. To me, writing a proof has always felt like far more of a right-brained activity
than a left-brained one. When I'm thinking deeply about something mathematical, the feeling I get is akin to what I experience when playing music or drawing--completely different from performing addition and subtraction. I theorize that this is why a lot of math professors are crummy arithmeticians.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
I agree - my sister was nearly pressured into an engineering route at college by schooling and sponsorship deals but stuck to her guns and has a postgraduate diploma in music performance on two instruments. She's very happy - she can do the music when the work is available for her instruments, and to fill in of the time can get "technical" positions in sales/marketing for engineering companies.
I'm going to get flamed and/or marked as a troll here, but from my observations the American way doesn't cater well for that kind of thinking. Everything appears to be about excelling and celebration of success, even if that means the child has to do something they don't really like doing - as long as they are very good then the praise and peer respect makes up for it.
With that...she really doesn't need a career...just marry a rich successful guy. Easy street the rest of her life. Higher math skills would just be an added perk.
Hell....wish I didn't have to work, and my main job was shopping. I need to find a sugar momma.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Interesting... In 1980 when I, a female, applied to an engineering program at CCNY, I was told by the Dean of Engineering that I couldn't possibly become an engineer because I had gotten an 800 (perfect score) on the English part of the SAT in high school. Now many years later, I am giving up writing, which even as a tech writer working with engineers has been a total bore to me, and I'm back in school enjoying the hard sciences once again. Two morals to this story: 1. She should do what interests her, no matter what her grades are in anything. 2. It is never to late to change direction, so don't worry about her. She'll figure it out on her own.