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The Neurological Basis of Con Games

Hugh Pickens writes "If we humans have such big brains, how can we get conned? Neuroeconomist Paul J. Zak has an interesting post on Psychology Today in which he recounts how he was the victim of a classic con called 'The Pigeon Drop' when he was a teenager and explains how con men take advantage of the Human Oxytocin Mediated Attachment System, called THOMAS, a powerful brain circuit that releases the neurochemical oxytocin when we are trusted and induces a desire to reciprocate the trust we have been shown. 'The key to a con is not that you trust the con man, but that he shows he trusts you. Con men ply their trade by appearing fragile or needing help, by seeming vulnerable,' writes Zak. 'Because of THOMAS, the human brain makes us feel good when we help others — this is the basis for attachment to family and friends and cooperation with strangers.' Zak's laboratory studies have shown that two percent of the college students he tested are 'unconditional nonreciprocators' who have learned how to simulate trustworthiness and would make good con men. Watch a video of Skeptics Society founder Michael Shermer running the classic pigeon drop on an unsuspecting victim and see if you wouldn't be taken in by a professional con man yourself."

218 comments

  1. Uh... by jornak · · Score: 5, Funny

    How we can we know this article is truthful? Can we really trust the author? He's a con man, after all.

    1. Re:Uh... by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 1

      According to the wikipedia, Oxytocin is responsible for general feel-good behavior such as sexual excitement, trust and bonding, maternal feelings, etc. It's also very involved with the effects of Chocolate and MDMA and, according to aforementioned article, caused spontaneous erections after being injected in rats.

      Just be careful before you reach for the MDMA as repeated use may experience a collection of symptoms involving diminished emotions, colloquially known as being an "E-Tard ism".

    2. Re:Uh... by CaptainPatent · · Score: 1

      How we can we know this article is truthful? Can we really trust the author? He's a con man, after all.

      You're right, nothing said above is valid...

      Say... did you drop your wallet?

      --
      Well, back to rejecting software patent applications.
    3. Re:Uh... by NFN_NLN · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "If we humans have such big brains, how can we get conned?"

      Ummm... if god is so powerful can he make a rock so big he can't move it?

      There is a spectrum of intelligence. Some of the more intelligent people are coming up with cons. People of lower intelligence fall for them. No magic here.

    4. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two Guards, Two Doors
      Like the question of the two guards and two doors.
      You are imprisoned in a chamber with two doors as the only exit. One door leads to death by cancer, filled with complications and malpractice; the other door leads to riches of jewelry, money and fine clothing for the rest of your life. There are two guards standing before you: one guard always lies; the other always tells the truth. Of course, you donâ(TM)t know their identities. You can ask only one question to save your life. What should you ask?
      This is a logic question and can be answered if one realizes that the TRUTH of a LIE is a LIE, and the LIE of a TRUTH is a LIE. You need one guard to give you the other guardâ(TM)s answer. Knowing this one could ask a question like, âoeIf I were to ask the other guard which door leads to freedom, what would he say?â
      If you ask the guard who always tells the truth, he would tell you the other guard would point you to the door of death. If you ask the guard who always lies, he would tell you the opposite door of the truth-telling guard and point you to the door of death. In either case, both guards will point to the door of death so you should choose the other one.

    5. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And one who stabs people who ask tricky questions... http://xkcd.com/246/

    6. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      With such a black and white perspective, I'd be willing to bet you are just as susceptible to cons as people of "lower intelligence".

    7. Re:Uh... by KevMar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      At the same time, people can be over confident and what they know can deceive them. I would bet there is a set of cons that hit smart people harder.

      On that note, I have meet some very smart but very stupid people.

      --
      Im a gamer, not a grammer major. This post is full of spelling and grammer mistakes.
    8. Re:Uh... by Jabbrwokk · · Score: 4, Funny

      caused spontaneous erections after being injected in rats.

      For the rats, right? Please say yes.

    9. Re:Uh... by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      With such a black and white perspective

      Since GP used the word 'spectrum', your hypothesis is full of fail.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    10. Re:Uh... by IAmGarethAdams · · Score: 1

      You come to a fork in the road with no signpost. You know that one path leads to Ogdenville, the other to Shelbyville, but you don't know which. You have to get to Shelbyville.

      A man is at the fork in the road. You know (somehow) that he will either lie or tell the truth to a yes or no question, and he will only answer your first question.

      How can you get to Shelbyville with any certainty?

    11. Re:Uh... by Vellmont · · Score: 4, Informative


      I would bet there is a set of cons that hit smart people harder.

      You mean something like this stuff?. Richard Feynman once observed that some smart people get taken because they don't want to believe they can be fooled. He was referring to people fooled by Uri Geller. He said he was different because "I'm smart enough to know that I'm dumb". Which is one of my favorite quotes of anything.

      --
      AccountKiller
    12. Re:Uh... by IAmGarethAdams · · Score: 2, Funny

      Answer: You ask the question "Did you know they're giving away free beer in Shelbyville?"

      A truth teller will answer "No" and head down the road to Shelbyville.

      A liar will answer "Yes" and head down the road to Shelbyville.

    13. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the rats, right? Please say yes.

      Darn! You beat me to it. I was going to point out that I get a spontaneous erection whenever I inject anything into rats.

    14. Re:Uh... by geminidomino · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And the first AC posted about a "black and white perspective", an idiom indicating two discrete extremes, no middle ground, which runs directly counter to the concept of a "spectrum"

    15. Re:Uh... by Kelpi · · Score: 1

      How can you get to Shelbyville with any certainty?

      "If I asked you if this is the way to Shelbyville would you say yes?"

    16. Re:Uh... by lysergic.acid · · Score: 1

      point to either road and ask the man, "if i were to ask you if this road goes to Shelbyville, what would you say?"

      if you pointed to the correct road the man will say "yes" regardless of whether he's a habitual truth-teller or a habitual liar.
      if you pointed to the Ogdenville path, the man will say "no" whether he's a habitual truth-teller or a habitual liar.

    17. Re:Uh... by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Some of the more intelligent people are coming up with cons. People of lower intelligence fall for them. No magic here.

      Smart people fall for cons too. I knew a guy back in graduate school, finishing up his PhD in CS, smart fellow. He fell for the Three Card Monte the first time he went to New York City.

      Smart != street smart.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    18. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The concept of a spectrum is not "directly counter" to a black-and-white perspective. The spectrum exists independent of his point of view. He's cut the spectrum into discrete blocks (i.e, "more intelligent" and "less intelligent"). That's what people with a black-and-white perspective do. It doesn't matter if they acknowledge a spectrum if they don't actually view it as a spectrum.

    19. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The GGP claimed that cons are executed and fallen for based on intelligence. That is indeed a black and white perspective. The word 'spectrum' had nothing to do with it.

      Sorry, smarty pants, but you fail.

    20. Re:Uh... by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      Some of the more intelligent people are coming up with cons. People of lower intelligence fall for them. No magic here.

      Smart people fall for cons too.

      Smart or not smart has little to do with it, but many people seem to think "lazy" and "greedy" people are also generally less smart.

      Greedy people fall for cons, while people who believe that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is don't get conned. "Greedy" doesn't have to mean they'd steal money, or run cons themselves. "Greedy" means that if they think they can make a quick buck with no work involved, they will.

      In the first linked article, the guy fell for the con because he saw he could get a $100 reward for finding a lost object that he didn't actually find. But, like pretty much every scam (including all the Nigerian e-mail scams), to get the money he had to pay an advance fee.

    21. Re:Uh... by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      "More" and "less" are relative measures. Where does that become "discrete?"

    22. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't that a requirement a ... majority of the time?

    23. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You're arguing semantics and ignoring the core of the argument. "More intelligent" as he is using it is just a euphemism for smart. "Less intelligent" is a euphemism for stupid. Yes, he gives lip service to a spectrum, but his argument is black-and-white: Smart people con stupid people.

      A Christian may believe that there is a spectrum from good to evil but if they believe all murders go to hell, they are still thinking in black and white terms. So while they acknowledge a spectrum, they are still coming from a black and white perspective. If all people on one side of an imaginary line are damned and all on the other are saved, and never the twain shall meet, how is this anything other than black and white? Just because they say "spectrum", "less", or "more"? No.

    24. Re:Uh... by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Uhhh huh...

      Whatever you say, mate.

    25. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't that more of an optimism/pessimism thing? I do recall flipping through a "become an optimist" book that used a large number of pages to point out that a pessimistic attitude of "too good to be true" would make you decline real opportunities.

      Of course you can be good or bad at evaluating what is likely to be real and what isn't, but sooner or later you'll have to convert your fuzzy logic to a 'yes' or 'no', and then it becomes a matter of false positives vs. false negatives.

      The main point being that, cons aside, I wouldn't really call taking the easiest path to your goal 'laziness' or 'greed'. It's just common sense.
      You probably shouldn't turn down every good looking job offer to stay in your current thankless job just because they're "too good to be true". Is there anyone besides ascetics who'd decline a boon with no harm to others and neglectable work required, besides for reasons of mistrust?

    26. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, you owe me a new keyboard.

    27. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What your imaginary friend has to do with cons?

      Ohh I see it, nevermind.

    28. Re:Uh... by Jesus_666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's an important difference: "Smart" and "stupid" are absolutes while "more intelligent" and "less intelligent" are not. If I compare two people with IQ 120 and 130 with each other, the 130 one is more intelligent while the 120 one is less intelligent - but the 120 one is not neccessarily stupid. Of course the IQ is just one measure of certain kinds of performance, but it works to illustrate the point.

      Also, there are various kinds of smartness. A savvy con man can con a Nobel prize-awarded genius while failing to con an averagely-intelligent cop who simply has seen those kinds of tricks too often to fall for them. Conning people requires a certain kind of interpersonal aptitude (cf. TFA where they mention that 2% of the tested students are capable of simulating trustworthiness), which has little to do with abstract problem solving abilities or other "traditional smart" things.

      So yeah, as far as cons are concerned there are lots of constantly shifting imaginary lines and it'd be best if the people on both sides never meet - because when they do someone is likely to get conned.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    29. Re:Uh... by Theoboley · · Score: 1

      Or you could sue the doctor for malpractice, go to a good doctor and still be rich !!!! This question (outside of the cancer thing) sounds like a Win-Win to me :D

      *end sarcasm*

      --
      Stupidity only gets you so far, then you've gotta try
    30. Re:Uh... by Lemmeoutada+Collecti · · Score: 1

      Or I could have just answered "maybe"

      --

      You can have it fast, accurate, or pretty. Pick any 2.
    31. Re:Uh... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Grandparent owes me a new rat!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  2. I'd make a good one by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I' make a good one I think. My resume and jobs I've landed attest to that a bit.

    I think most fairly successful people in business have to have a little con man in them to some degree.

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    1. Re:I'd make a good one by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd say that the recent con game that the bankers and ratings companies were running proves that the most successful people in business have a lot of the con man in them.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    2. Re:I'd make a good one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think most fairly successful people in /the pr0n/ business have to have a little con man in them to some degree.

    3. Re:I'd make a good one by 77Punker · · Score: 1

      I think most fairly successful people in /the pr0n/ business have to have some man in them to some degree.

      FTFY

    4. Re:I'd make a good one by mattmatt · · Score: 1

      I have his arm in me.

  3. Please stand up ... by fish_in_the_c · · Score: 3, Funny

    If you know you would be taken in by a profession con man ... I'll trust you to let me know ;)

    --
    âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
    1. Re:Please stand up ... by entgod · · Score: 1

      You seem like a guy one can trust on. Of course I would tell you!

    2. Re:Please stand up ... by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      This seems like a perfectly harmless request.

      Unfortunately I am immune to all forms of connery so I will not tell you as you didn't ask for people who can not, in fact, be conned. Sorry. You do seem very trustworthy.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
  4. Hey guys, I have a bridge I need selling... by apathy+maybe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The trouble is, I have to get to a job interview. I have a client coming around right now with the cash. Can you do me a favour? I'll split the proceeds of the sale with you, but because I have to go, I'll grab my share now. That fine with you?

    Cool.

    ---

    I was trying to think of something serious to say, but honestly, I couldn't. I even read the first article and loaded up the video and second article. I guess I could make a random attack on capitalism as an economic system, but that would probably be unsubstantiated, so I won't.

    --
    I wank in the shower.
    1. Re:Hey guys, I have a bridge I need selling... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I was trying to think of something serious to say, but honestly, I couldn't. I even read the first article and loaded up the video and second article.

      There is always the option of not posting if you have nothing to say.

      I must be new here.

  5. It's all about greed by rudy_wayne · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Forget all the babble about neurochemicals. Most con men aren't particularly smart and 99.9% of all cons aren't particularly clever. Con men are successful for one reason and one reason alone -- their victims are greedy and hoping to get something for nothing. This one sentence from the article sums it up perfectly:

    "The greed-o-meter goes off in my head, suppressing all rational thought."

    If you aren't greedy, if you aren't looking to get something for nothing, it will be nearly impossible for you to be conned.

    1. Re:It's all about greed by oodaloop · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Forget all the babble about neurochemicals.

      Forget all that scientific evidence...what, because you say so?

      If you aren't greedy, if you aren't looking to get something for nothing, it will be nearly impossible for you to be conned.

      So explain how a person is greedy without using the brain as a part of that explanation.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    2. Re:It's all about greed by Chyeld · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, those are just the obvious con men. The ones 'everyone' knows about because after it's over 'everyone' goes "How stupid would you have to have been to fall for that."

      Believe me, there are plenty of other people out there who are willing to con you that don't rely on your greed.

      Ever been the fall guy? The one left holding the bag?

      Ever get suckered into buying a lemon car from used car salemen.

      Ever been suckered into being 'friend' that gets the 'ugly one' on a double date?

      Ever donate to a charity because the guy on the TV asked you too and said "Your dollars can help".

      Greed is a tool to catch the greedy. Compasion is the tool used to catch the compasionate. Pride is the tool used to catch the prideful (as in "You are too smart to ever fall for such an obvious con...)

      There are plenty of clay feet out there to aim at, greed is just one of them.

    3. Re:It's all about greed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Believe me, there are plenty of other people out there who are willing to con you that don't rely on your greed.

      Care to point some of them out?

      Ever been the fall guy? The one left holding the bag?

      "fall guy" for what, exactly? The only thing this could apply to (in the context of a confidence game) would also rely on greed.

      Ever get suckered into buying a lemon car from used car salemen.

      What does this have to do with a confidence game?

      Ever been suckered into being 'friend' that gets the 'ugly one' on a double date?

      What does this have to do with a confidence game?

      Ever donate to a charity because the guy on the TV asked you too and said "Your dollars can help".

      What does this have to do with a confidence game?

      "con" is short for "confidence", not "convincing".

    4. Re:It's all about greed by Chyeld · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And a confidence game is a scam that involves gaining someone's confidence and then using it to defraud them, which is exactly what every one of the examples above are.

      Thanks for the unecessary condescendation though. Look! Another con word.

    5. Re:It's all about greed by no1home · · Score: 1

      Ever vote for %POLITICIAN%?

      Wait... Let's just make that, "Ever vote?" I still vote, but... wow.

      --
      I hope this comment is well received... I could have moderated instead!

      Persecutors will be violated!
    6. Re:It's all about greed by oGMo · · Score: 1

      Forget all the babble about neurochemicals.

      So explain how a person is greedy without using the brain as a part of that explanation.

      Yeah, I'm pretty sure his original answer wasn't using his brain, so there you go. ;-)

      --

      Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage

    7. Re:It's all about greed by hardburn · · Score: 5, Informative

      Believe me, there are plenty of other people out there who are willing to con you that don't rely on your greed.

      Care to point some of them out?

      The Craigslist Bad Check scam, where the con sends a check for several thousand more than the asking price. They'll email you saying that their secretary made a mistake, but they trust you, so go ahead and cash it and send back the difference. It's a bad check, of course, but your bank won't notice for a few days, and then they'll hold you responsible for the difference, plus the check you just sent back.

      The mark isn't working on greed. They don't expect to get anything more than the original asking price. The con works purely on feelings of trust.

      --
      Not a typewriter
    8. Re:It's all about greed by DrVomact · · Score: 1

      So explain how a person is greedy without using the brain as a part of that explanation.

      In what sense is something like "greed" explained by talking about brain chemicals? What sort of "explanation" is this? How does it clear things up? What is it that you didn't understand about greed before that you do understand after you listen to a guy talk about brain chemicals?

      Not everything that is scientific is also relevant.

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    9. Re:It's all about greed by memco · · Score: 1

      -Citation Needed

      "No definitions were found for condescendation."

      Me thinks you meant condescension.

      --
      Get me a meat pie floater!
    10. Re:It's all about greed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But McGrew told me that the ugly ones are more likely to put out...

    11. Re:It's all about greed by mcpkaaos · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the unecessary condescendation though. Look! Another con word.

      Misfortunately, that isn't a word. Perhaps you meaned condescension?

      --
      It goes from God, to Jerry, to me.
    12. Re:It's all about greed by orclevegam · · Score: 1

      What do you use to catch a jaded pessimist?

      --
      Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
    13. Re:It's all about greed by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Believe me, there are plenty of other people out there who are willing to con you that don't rely on your greed.

      Care to point some of them out?

      Sure. Jim and Tammy Faye Baker, Pat Robertson, etc., etc., These guys get people to give them money in the millions and even billions of dollars, and greed on the part of the suckered has absolutely nothing to do with their cons.
      Ever get suckered into buying a lemon car from used car salemen.

      I won't comment on the 'fall guy' thing because I'm not sure what he's talking about, either.

      Ever get suckered into buying a lemon car from used car salemen.
      Ever been suckered into being 'friend' that gets the 'ugly one' on a double date?

      What does this have to do with a confidence game?

      Lemon car: sually the used car salesmen knows when a car is a lemon. The con is get you (or some other sucker) to buy the car without the dealership investing money into fixing it up properly for sale.
      The friend for the ugly chick: A friend of mine was actually the con in this scenario and a mutual friend was the mark. In this case, the con asks a girl out but the girl won't go out with him unless he gets a date for her ugly roommate, whom no one will ever date because -- damn, this chick was just fugly. Anyway, he tells the friend that the ugly roommate was nice looking, but just shy. Anyway, clearly the situation was a con.

    14. Re:It's all about greed by Chyeld · · Score: 1

      Cheese.

      Or a card with "How do you trick a jaded pessimist, turn me over to find out" printed on both sides. They fall for that every time.

    15. Re:It's all about greed by Chyeld · · Score: 1

      It's still a "con" word!!!

    16. Re:It's all about greed by Chyeld · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, I meant condensation, he was drooling.

    17. Re:It's all about greed by CorporateSuit · · Score: 1

      What do you use to catch a jaded pessimist?

      That's easy enough. Make them think everything is their idea.

      --
      I am the richest astronaut ever to win the superbowl.
    18. Re:It's all about greed by Commander+Doofus · · Score: 1

      The Craigslist Bad Check scam, where the con sends a check for several thousand more than the asking price...

      (Clicks on link to website advising consumers of scams)
      (Gets pop-up window claiming you can make $18 billion in a year as a California option trader)
      Sigh...

      --
      Want to improve your life? This guy will show you how!
    19. Re:It's all about greed by jcnnghm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They're not all stupid...

      A friend of mine is a finance manager at a car dealership. Two women and a man came in about two months ago with a rather elaborate story. The first woman was married to the man, then fell in love with the second woman. The first woman wanted to buy a car, but had no credit history, although the social security number (and matching drivers license) she had provided was clean. Neither the other woman, or the husband, was willing to cosign. The woman also had all of the appropriate documentation for a credit less customer, addressed bills, paystubs, bank account balances, etc...

      That night, the woman left my friend with a hefty down payment check, and the three left in a brand new, $30,000 car. The very next morning, the dealership was faxed the remainder of the information they needed to close out the deal. About two weeks later, when they were verifying the check and logging the deal, the bank let them know that the name on the check didn't match the name on the account. My friend did some digging, left the woman a message, and asked her to get back to him.

      At this point, he called me, and told me the story. He hadn't put it together yet, but I couldn't stop laughing. The last thing he said to me, before I broke the news to him, was that the dealership probably wouldn't lose too much since they'd be able to repossess the car before they could put too many miles on it. I explained that they were long gone, and so was the car. It wasn't coming back, it was all a show, none of it was real. He checked out the cell phone, prepaid, checked out the paystub (manager said, "Another one! Have no idea who that is"), checked out the bills, fake account numbers. Everything was fake, the whole deal was a very elaborate hoax.

      It's not hard to see why they succeeded. They came in with an elaborate story to distract and disarm. The more you're thinking about lesbians, the less you're thinking about proof. They were able to argue amongst themselves to great effect the entire time to further distract (e.g. "You left me for her, its not my problem, I had all you needed right here"). They also had all the answers and all the right explanations, there was no need to come back, they had all the information they required with them, and as they could see from the credit report, they knew what to bring because they'd already hit many other dealerships in the area.

      The con artists also sweetened the deal for the dealership. My friend tried to reject the deal, but when the general manager found out that they were buying the car for sticker price with a maintenance plan, a very high profit deal, he told him to go ahead with it. They also took away the ability to verify the deal, and the incentive to verify the next day. They came in late in the day, when the banks were closed, and her job would have been closed, so they would have to take most of the information presented at face value. In addition, the additional information they requested was faxed over the next day to relieve suspicion.

      The last thing they relied on was the most important, and that is the reluctance of those who have been scammed to report it. My dad uncovered a scam several years ago, where 21 people were taken for between $100k and $1M each over the course of a year, by a boat dealer. The dealer was never convicted, not because of the evidence, but because not a single person was willing to testify, publicly admitting their mistake. And before you think it couldn't happen to you, consider that even Al Capone was taken for $5,000 in the 1920s. Viktor Lustig approached Capone and offered to double his investment of $50,000 in 60 days. In 60 days, Lustig returned all $50,000 to Capone, and apologized that it didn't work, although he very much needed the money. Capone decided to give Lustig $5,000. What Capone didn't know, was that this is what Lustig had planned all along, he had never done anything but deposit the money in a bank account. In another case, Lustig sold the Eiffel Tower to

      --
      You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer. - Winston Churchill
    20. Re:It's all about greed by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Most con men aren't particularly smart and 99.9% of all cons aren't particularly clever.

      This is why you need to differentiate between "intelligent" and "clever". They are really two different kinds of smart people, the "clever" people are good at answering quickly, mostly tackle simple problems and can rapidly adapt to changes in their environment. These are the fast talkers and charismatic types and include the con artists and businessmen.

      The "intelligent" type are good at solving complex problems, study, research and can generally spend more time on more complex problems. Typically associated with scientist stereotype.

      So I wouldn't say that con artists are particularly dumb or stupid, it takes a fairly clever person to be able to lie convincingly, while they do target the dumb and stupid it still requires some ability to think on your feet to successfully scam them.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    21. Re:It's all about greed by SoupGuru · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I remember from the early parts of the book Influence: the Science and Practice (awesome book, by the way) that the author pointed out that we're wired to participate in society as efficiently as possible... well, by "we" I don't necessarily mean slashdotters.

      Anyway, our brain takes shortcuts to make our interaction with those around us be mostly smooth and beneficial for everyone. These shortcuts can be taken advantage of by bad people to gain our compliance to things we shouldn't comply with. We get conned.

      But the author makes a point that these shortcuts are generally a good thing and mostly necessary... we should just beware when something seems fishy.

      That's why it bothers me when people use some poor sap that gets taken advantage of to prove that you need to be greedy or a jerk or self-centered to make it through life without being screwed. To hell with that, continue to be kind, self-less, helpful, and trusting... but also listen to those warning bells in the back of your mind that might appear from time to time.

      --
      What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable
    22. Re:It's all about greed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a confidence game is a scam that involves gaining someone's confidence and then using it to defraud them

      True.

      which is exactly what every one of the examples above are

      False.

      Please explain how sending money to a registered charity is "fraud".

      Here's a simple test: there are laws against fraud. If it's not illegal, it's probably not fraud. Selling a used car is not fraud. Begging for money on TV is not fraud. Going on a blind date is not fraud.

    23. Re:It's all about greed by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      Nope, it's greed, too:

      Not con-man: Hey, my secretary made a mistake on that check and wrote it for too much...can you cash it and send me the difference?
      Seller: No, I really need you to send me another check for the correct amount.
      Not con-man: Well, then, screw you...I'm gonna stop payment on that check and you don't have to send me the stuff.

      See...if you don't agree to these extra terms, even a completely honest buyer might just cost you some profit. Of course, a real con man would say exactly the same thing.

      Also, some of these bad check scams have the con man saying things like, "...and keep $20/100/500 for the trouble of doing this for me", where the amount to keep is relative to the overpayment amount.

    24. Re:It's all about greed by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Minor nitpick. At least according to the Wikipedia article, Lustig kept the money in a safe deposit box, not a bank account.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Lustig

    25. Re:It's all about greed by Mike610544 · · Score: 1

      Trust in paper documents seems to be lagging way behind the ability to forge them. How hard is it to scan/photoshop/print a utility bill these days?

      --
      ... also, I can kill you with my brain.
    26. Re:It's all about greed by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

      Forget all the babble about neurochemicals.

      Forget all that scientific evidence...what, because you say so?

      Neuroscience babble is not, and probably never will be, scientific evidence. Most, if not all, neuroscientists are essentially isomorphic to this caricature. They wear white coats, but they are not scientists.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    27. Re:It's all about greed by VoidCrow · · Score: 1

      Totally. And without the said 'shortcuts' our interactions with society would be completely dysfunctional - too slow and bogged down in bureaucratic information cross-checks to work at at all. There's the clothing effect, for example. I know someone who cosplayed a (very convincing) FBI man. He was old enough to carry the look off. At the convention he was widely ignored by other cosplayers and routinely treated by staff as a member of the security infrastructure.

      It makes *us* individually vulnerable, but it makes our society stronger, overall.

      But yes, your point about kindness, selflessness and so on... agreed.

    28. Re:It's all about greed by I+cant+believe+its+n · · Score: 4, Funny

      Trust in paper documents seems to be lagging way behind the ability to forge them. How hard is it to scan/photoshop/print a utility bill these days?

      I would say very hard.
      Let me present to you, the HP PSC 2355, combined printer/scanner/hairdrier.

      It won't scan unless I have toner in the printer. In addition, some errors present themselves, requiring you to press the ok button. Once you do this, it presents the same info again, requiring you to press the ok button...

      The HP PSC 2355: "you just can't reason with it, and it simply will not stop until you are dead"

      --
      She made the willows dance
    29. Re:It's all about greed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The more you're thinking about lesbians, the less you're thinking about proof.

      So that's why my concentration on certain math classes was so poor..

    30. Re:It's all about greed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So explain how a person is greedy without using the brain as a part of that explanation.

      Hi is greedy because God made him greedy.

      QED

    31. Re:It's all about greed by jahudabudy · · Score: 1

      Wait, so wanting to sell stuff for what is (presumably) a reasonable profit is greedy? Using your definition, everyone that desires to participate in any commercial transaction is greedy; after all, the only reason to participate in such a transaction is because you expect to get something out it that you value more than what you put into it.

      --
      ...sometimes, in order to hurt someone very badly, you have to tell that person terrible lies. - PA
    32. Re:It's all about greed by Mike610544 · · Score: 1

      The HP PSC 2355: "you just can't reason with it, and it simply will not stop until you are dead"

      Sounds like you need to go all Michael Bolton on that thing.

      --
      ... also, I can kill you with my brain.
  6. Unsurprising find? by Surreal+Puppet · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Doesn't everyone do this subconsciously, when they feel they would benefit from it? I know i have to stop myself sometimes, when i put myself in "vulnerable mode" to make people trust me more. I don't try to con people, i just do it because it... works? On the other hand, I'm into computer security. Maybe stuff like that is just part of the "security mindset" Bruce Schneier et. al. espouses? 2% sounds like a surprisingly small figure though.

    1. Re:Unsurprising find? by mevets · · Score: 3, Insightful

      2% probably depends on the college. They should sample politicians and inmates.

    2. Re:Unsurprising find? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      On the other hand, I'm into computer security. Maybe stuff like that is just part of the "security mindset" Bruce Schneier et. al. espouses? 2% sounds like a surprisingly small figure though.

      Been playing with computers all my life. They've warped the way I think. I input data FOO to a system, and the system gives me result BAR.

      Other people are also processing systems. I'm a processing system. And while I'm relatively unskilled at hacking them, there are hackers who specialize in hacking them.

      I don't trust computers because they're too easily manipulated by skilled hackers. I don't trust humans, for precisely the same reason.

      On a network, you manage the risk by trying anticipate all the ways in which you could be hacked, by filtering out as much unsolicited traffic as practical, by not trusting externally-originated content, and as a last resort, by pulling the plug out of the wall and reimaging the OS after a breach.

      In wetware, now we're back to this morning's CS/women thread.

    3. Re:Unsurprising find? by Surreal+Puppet · · Score: 1

      Terry Pratchett once said that he was surprised people who program computers don't spend more time programming people.

  7. Always be skeptical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The skeptic does not mean him who doubts, but him who investigates or researches, as opposed to him who asserts and thinks that he has found"

    --Manuel Noriega

    1. Re:Always be skeptical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Manuel should have researched how the CIA treats people who stop laundering drug money through their favorite banks.

  8. Explanation by Eudial · · Score: 3, Interesting

    J.R. "Bob" Dobbs explains it eloquently: "You know how dumb the average person is? Well, by definition, half of 'em are even dumber than THAT."

    --
    GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
    1. Re:Explanation by humphrm · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, that's originally a George Carlin joke.

      And when most people retell it, they inevitably get into a geek debate about mean vs. average.

      --
      -- "In order to have power, I must be taken seriously." -Mojo Jojo
    2. Re:Explanation by Eudial · · Score: 2, Funny

      You say tomato, I say potato. I call upon my license to fail I paid "Bob" 30 bucks for.

      --
      GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
    3. Re:Explanation by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      Assume normal distribution of IQ (as most do), and mean and median are the same. The joke is the truth.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    4. Re:Explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *cough* it's the median *cough*

    5. Re:Explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "median vs mean" There, fixed that for you.

    6. Re:Explanation by naoursla · · Score: 1

      Oh, man. I just love the old "mean vs. average" con.

    7. Re:Explanation by naoursla · · Score: 1

      Oh, man. I just love the old "assume a normal distribution" con. Do you have any idea how much money I have made with that one?

      How does that one work? I'll show you.

      Let's play a game. Assuming I have a fair coin, I flip the coin and it comes up heads 9 times in a row. What is the probability of the coin coming up heads on the 10th flip?

    8. Re:Explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I think you meant: mean vs MEDIAN.

      (By the way, Wikipedia says that mean, median and mode are all types of "averages", so in that sense "average person" is correct, although it's not particularly precise.)

    9. Re:Explanation by Vellmont · · Score: 2, Insightful


      What is the probability of the coin coming up heads on the 10th flip?

      0%, since of course you switched out the coin with a two-tailed coin after flip 9.

      --
      AccountKiller
    10. Re:Explanation by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      Only about two percent of the population is more than two standard deviations below normal intelligence, but that doesn't work as a punch line.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    11. Re:Explanation by discord5 · · Score: 1

      geek debate about mean vs. average

      You just had to bring that up didn't you...

    12. Re:Explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what's the difference between mean and average?

    13. Re:Explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That depends. _Assuming_ you have a fair coin, 50%. If you want me to put money on it, not willing to play. Based on the previous 9 flips, I'd strongly suspect your assumption is faulty.

    14. Re:Explanation by naoursla · · Score: 1

      No. No. No.

      That is the old "shell game" con. And while I just love that con, it isn't the one I was playing. If you were watching for the switch you would be deeply disappointed.

      Also, you obviously don't fall for the old "assume a normal distribution" scam. I would have to play the old "inverted pyramid" scam with you. I just love the old "inverted pyramid" scam. It works especially well with stock newsletters. You can play this game as an inverted pyramid scam, but it only pays off once every 1024 times.

    15. Re:Explanation by naoursla · · Score: 1

      You caught onto the heart of the old "assume a normal distribution" scam quite quickly for an anonymous coward.

      But how well do you hold up against an "independence assumption" scam?

    16. Re:Explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And when most people retell it, they inevitably get into a geek debate about mean vs. average.

      Actually, that would be median, not mean. /ducks

    17. Re:Explanation by LaskoVortex · · Score: 1

      And when most people retell it, they inevitably get into a geek debate about mean vs. average.

      I think you mean "median"--or did you set me up for that?

      --
      Just callin' it like I see it.
    18. Re:Explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I think that's a pretty mean joke.

    19. Re:Explanation by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      I don't think you understand the term "distribution" very well.

      It can't be applied to a single trial.

      Also, (honest) coin flips aren't a normal distribution...you'll get 50% heads and 50% tails with no outliers.

      Or, perhaps you are thinking of the fact that in the combinations of heads and tails for a given number of flips, each number of heads (or tails) generates a normal distribution. But, your first 9 flips are an outlier for either 9 or 10 flips. So logic says the next flip would be heads because despite the fact that you think it's a fair coin, it's not really. Also, logic says that since the combinations should lead to a normal distribution, the next flip should be tails to bring it back closer.

      Thus, everything says that the chance for heads on the next flip is 50%.

    20. Re:Explanation by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      And someone always points out that the distinction is immaterial based on their claim that it's a normal distribution.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    21. Re:Explanation by naoursla · · Score: 1

      The fairness of a coin can be modelled by a binomial distribution. If you take the Taylor series expansion of a binomial distribution and then use the first two elements of the expansion to model the binomial you get a normal distribution.

      "Assume a normal distribution" is close enough for confidence work.

    22. Re:Explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mean is the same thing as average, I think you mean median versus mean ;)

    23. Re:Explanation by acheron12 · · Score: 1

      You mean, mean vs median. The two coincide for a normal curve anyway (which IQ is usually assumed to be).

      --
      there is no god but truth, and reality is its prophet
    24. Re:Explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An debate about "mean vs. average" is like a debate about "four vs. numbers". It makes no sense; average is a term that encompasses several very different but thematically similar measurements.

    25. Re:Explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fairmness of a coin is a number, not a distrubution. For a fair coin, it's 0.5 or 50%.

      You can use a binomial distribution to estimate that number from a set of trials.

  9. Intresing by fish_in_the_c · · Score: 1

    "My research has demonstrated that they have highly dysregulated THOMASes."
    so in otherwods if you are bastard it is because you have brain damage ;)

    Seriouly though, does anyone know if this kind of research argues for better or an inborn train as opposed to one the 'grew' later on within a person enviourment. ( otherwise known as raised that way?)

    --
    âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
    1. Re:Intresing by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      That general line of research might turn out to be useful in answering the nature/nurture question; but it isn't good enough right now. We know that the brain is influenced by genetics; but we also know that it rewires itself like crazy during development, and to a lesser extent for the entire life of the organism. There is also some research out there suggesting that an individual's developmental trajectory can be permanently altered by conditions in utero, which can be affected by, for instance, maternal stress.

      If we know what aspects of the brain to look at, that gives us a guide for future research(along with indirect techniques, like twin studies); but we certainly don't know enough yet.

  10. Re:Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jesus wants you to have some candy. Come in my van.

  11. Feeling good about hurting by russotto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If cons work by making us feel good about helping the con man, then how come so many are based on the mark trying to rip off someone? In the pigeon drop, the mark is trying to rip off the con man. In insider-knowledge scams, the mark is trying to rip off honest traders or gamblers. With "white van" scams, the mark thinks he's buying stolen goods.

    1. Re:Feeling good about hurting by erroneus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Someone else said it as well. It is all about "I want." It always has been and it always will be. This is why TV commercials work -- you want whatever they say you want and they do their best to make it look as good as possible. This is why spam works -- they know they are offering something that some people want more than their good senses can control. This is why religion works as well.

    2. Re:Feeling good about hurting by ShadowRangerRIT · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The con works by making you *trust* the con man. Very different from feeling good about helping. So if the conman makes you believe he trusts you, offers an easy opportunity to rip him off (buy a diamond at a massive discount), you may trust the premise of his offer (e.g. the diamond is real). If he makes you feel good about "helping" him in any substantial way (he needs money for a train ticket), it helps the more honest marks justify it to themselves (I'm making a profit, but I'm also helping the poor man).

      --
      $_ = "wftedskaebjgdpjgidbsmnjgcdwatb"; tr/a-z/oh, turtleneck Phrase Jar!/; print
    3. Re:Feeling good about hurting by RJBeery · · Score: 1

      I would submit that these types of cons are more prevalent because they alleviate any feelings of guilt from the con men, not because they are more effective. Also, if and when the con gets busted the jury is more likely to go easy on the perpetrators because they were apparently preying on 'would-be predators'...

    4. Re:Feeling good about hurting by Vellmont · · Score: 1


      With "white van" scams, the mark thinks he's buying stolen goods.

      Interesting. I didn't realize this was such a well known scam. About 10 years ago in College while walking from my car to class I would occasionally get stopped by slimy looking guys driving around in a van saying they were from "Sound Design", and repeated some ridiculous story about "extra" speakers being ordered, etc. This happened more than once, so I knew there was some form of scam here but didn't find out exactly what until later.

      One day a co-worker told me he actually BOUGHT the speakers from these scum-bags. I told him they were likely stolen, or some such. He didn't believe they were stolen, he actually believed the ridiculous story. He actually contacted the police (not wanting to have bought stolen speakers), and they told him the essence of the White van speakers scam. Sadly my co-worker didn't want to believe these guys were bad guys (and he had still somehow gotten a good deal).

      --
      AccountKiller
    5. Re:Feeling good about hurting by ookabooka · · Score: 1

      I think it has to do with the return of investment. Only a shady deal can get the chump such riches for doing basically nothing. A scam that promises a 25% return over 30 days and is backed by a major bank and well known will make people a little more thoughtful over their risk assessment. The whole "Too good to be true" mentality kicks in. When there's an element of illegality or shadiness. . .then it seems plausible and you just happen to get "lucky" and got in on it by happenstance. Hit that lucky emotion combined with trust and you have a chump.

      --
      If you are about to mod me down, keep in mind that this post was most likely sarcastic.
    6. Re:Feeling good about hurting by Erpo · · Score: 1

      You're missing a choice:

      5) "We're not splitting the money. That's stealing, and if you try it with the other guy I'm calling the cops. Now, let's find a phone book and call the owner."

      And before you say nobody would ever do that, I've done exactly that in the past. I'm not sure if it was going to be a con, but it worked out well enough in the end.

    7. Re:Feeling good about hurting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pack mentality.

      In the video there were four choices:

      1) Yes, that's my money, hand it over.
      2) Give me the wallet, then we discuss.
      3) Confusion, look for leaders.
      4) Walk away

      It's not about greed. The most greedy is choice #1. Choice #2 was clearly possible, that's "fight", choice #3 is what most humans fall under, even if they delude themselves into thinking that's not true, and choice #4 was "flight".

      5.*
      6.profit?

    8. Re:Feeling good about hurting by Rary · · Score: 1

      5) "We're not splitting the money. That's stealing, and if you try it with the other guy I'm calling the cops. Now, let's find a phone book and call the owner."

      The con generally involves a wallet that has no ID in it so that it's impossible to call the owner. The con works in part because option #5 has been removed.

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    9. Re:Feeling good about hurting by Erpo · · Score: 1

      Hmm. I didn't demand the wallet from the other person, although I do see your point.

      I guess it depends on where you grew up. I could have said (and did say) something like that without the expectation that it would come to blows. My "fight" response was totally not engaged when I opened my mouth.

      If the person had pulled a knife and said, "Oh yeah? Come take it from me!" then I would have let him have it, same as any armed robbery.

  12. Not me. by wcrowe · · Score: 4, Funny

    I don't easily trust strangers who inexplicably trust me. I'm not easily conned. I guess I have a doubting THOMAS.

    --
    Proverbs 21:19
    1. Re:Not me. by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't easily trust strangers who inexplicably trust me. I'm not easily conned. I guess I have a doubting THOMAS.

      Sounds like you have an inherent understanding of Thoreau. "If a man comes to you with the obvious intention of doing you good, run for your life."

    2. Re:Not me. by joelleo · · Score: 1

      If I still had mod points you'd get +1 Funny!

      --
      "In the end, there is simply no weapon more devastating than the truth, delivered in just the right way." - tnk1
    3. Re:Not me. by cp.tar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't easily trust strangers who inexplicably trust me. I'm not easily conned. I guess I have a doubting THOMAS.

      I wouldn't have fallen for it for one reason only: I would not have touched the money or the envelope with the money in it. Or the envelope I thought it had the money in it. If there is no personal information in the wallet, yet it seems loaded with money, my paranoia kicks in. If there is personal information inside, then I'd rather find the owner and hand it over.
      Somehow, I'd rather earn $300 than steal $1000, though I'd give it back even without the finder's fee.

      Besides, I remember American Gods and two-man cons.

      You really cannot cheat an honest man. Not until you become greedy do these tricks work.

      --
      Ignore this signature. By order.
    4. Re:Not me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hadn't heard of Thoreau before, here's a wikipedia link.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_David_Thoreau

      I've read about anarchy and other governments, but I don't agree with any. I have my own ideals.
      I'm an empire of one person. For now, I cooperate, follow rules and blend in. But, the goal of amplified-autonomy is to gain self sufficiency until I don't rely on anyone else. Every type of government focuses on people, amp is about getting away. I'll find a solitary place to live, create a sustainable energy source, some defenses, invent my own fountain of youth, and whatever else I'm capable of figuring out. It's a dream either a brilliant hobbyist can accomplish, or a mad hermit fails at. However it goes, at least I'm not addicted to people.

    5. Re:Not me. by Rary · · Score: 1

      You really cannot cheat an honest man. Not until you become greedy do these tricks work.

      Tricks that exploit greed are among the easiest to pull off, but that doesn't mean there aren't tricks that exploit characteristics other than greed, even positive ones. Wikipedia puts it quite well: "Confidence tricks exploit human weaknesses like greed, dishonesty, vanity, but also virtues like honesty, compassion, or a naive expectation of good faith on the part of the con artist.".

      A classic con that doesn't rely on greed at all: Peter Popoff. He simply exploited people who wanted to donate money to a "true Christian" doing "The Lord's Work(tm)".

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    6. Re:Not me. by Violet+Null · · Score: 1

      If you remember American Gods, who was getting conned in that case?

      People dropping off the day's earnings at the ATM. Were they greedy? No, they were simply too trusting. But they got conned nonetheless.

      Bringing in an element of the illicit helps a con because it makes the mark less likely to go to the police, and likely to publicize what happened, and greed certainly is a motivating factor...but it's a far cry from "you can't con an honest man". Honest men get conned all the time.

    7. Re:Not me. by failedlogic · · Score: 1

      Most con artists believe that all their targets are gullible. Turn the tables on them. If it isn't a con, it doesn't take long to figure it out.

      I mentionned most. There are likely some that are probably so good that I've never noticed I've been conned.

    8. Re:Not me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not all cons require greed. Some just use distraction and confusion, such as this.

  13. Paging David Brin by StarEmperor · · Score: 1

    We feel good when we help others?

    "You just stay the hell away from me, ALAS. I won't be your patsy. I won't be your vector."

  14. Greed by owlnation · · Score: 1

    Because of THOMAS, the human brain makes us feel good when we help others -- this is the basis for attachment to family and friends and cooperation with strangers.

    I suggest this guy needs to read Dostoevsky as a matter of urgency. He clearly has limited experience with actual members of the human race. Greed is the primary motivation for most of the species.

  15. Fragile, needing help, seeming vulnerable... by tinrobot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Con men ply their trade by appearing fragile or needing help, by seeming vulnerable...

    Sounds like a few women I've dated. Sometimes, love and romance is also a con game, now isn't it?

    1. Re:Fragile, needing help, seeming vulnerable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like a few women I've dated. Sometimes, love and romance is also a con game, now isn't it?

      Oxytocin, the hormone this article is about, plays a huge role in romance.

    2. Re:Fragile, needing help, seeming vulnerable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly my thoughts! I wonder if we've dated the same women?

  16. Confused by Threni · · Score: 1

    "You've got my fifty bucks, I've got the envelope with half the money, he's going to that building - we've got a 3 way thing going on here"..

    No, you've got a two way thing going on - I don't know either of you two guys, that wallet wasn't there when I started talking to you, this smells funny and I'm out of here.

    Cons work because some people are greedy or lazy and want something for nothing. There's no need to resort to talking about neurons or computers or whatever.

    1. Re:Confused by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      And how do we explain greediness and laziness without talking about neurons or whatever?

  17. two percent are bastards? by corbettw · · Score: 3, Funny

    So about 6 million in America alone.

    Say, isn't that about the population of Los Angeles and Manhattan (just the island, not the rest of NYC) combined? That would explain a lot.

    --
    God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    1. Re:two percent are bastards? by ShadowRangerRIT · · Score: 1

      I have to say, I just moved to Manhattan a few months ago, and in general I haven't noticed a lot of meanness/bastardliness (though presumably *someone* is peeing in the subway entrances). People are in fact generally helpful when it doesn't benefit them at all (providing street and subway directions). Of course, you can't trust me saying this, since now that I'm living here, I'm obviously a conman.

      --
      $_ = "wftedskaebjgdpjgidbsmnjgcdwatb"; tr/a-z/oh, turtleneck Phrase Jar!/; print
    2. Re:two percent are bastards? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Well, if we are going to go down that joke, it's All Cretans are liars.

    3. Re:two percent are bastards? by WCguru42 · · Score: 1

      But LA and Manhattan aren't part of the real america so they don't count.

      --
      "Educate the mind but never at the expense of the soul."~Blessed Basil Moreau
    4. Re:two percent are bastards? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Coincidentally, it's about the number of people who voted for Ron Paul..

    5. Re:two percent are bastards? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So about 6 million in America alone.

      Isn't that the population of Nigeria?

  18. Pointless conclusions by Hao+Wu · · Score: 1

    The example they give is ridiculous... The swindle has NOTHING to do with it. They could have just as easily been honest and carried on the act, giving the guy his share of the money afterward.

    The point was to win someone's trust. Betraying him afterward is an afterthought, and completely irrelevant.

    --
    I suggest you read Slashdot
    1. Re:Pointless conclusions by wombert · · Score: 1

      I think you missed the part where the wallet full of cash was part of the scam. The money in the "lost" wallet is provided by the con men to lure in the mark... giving the guy "his share" would mean the con men lose money, which is why they're prepared with a decoy envelope.

      --
      Did I say overlords? I meant protectors.
  19. Being a jerk... by AdamTrace · · Score: 1

    It takes a certain amount of 'nad to appear weak and helpless, get people to help you, and then rob them blind and walk way.

    I certainly don't have the stomach for it...

    Adman

    1. Re:Being a jerk... by Eravau · · Score: 1

      Are you just saying that to get us to trust you?

  20. Action and reaction by westlake · · Score: 0, Flamebait
    "Jesus loves you" explained.

    or perhaps the "Insightful" mod explained. You need only to bait the hook.

    1. Re:Action and reaction by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      Heh, the thread as I read it right now is a perfect picture of the moderation system at work. The flamebait (the AC) has been marked insightful, the insightful comment (westlake) has been marked flamebait. Bravo!

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
  21. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  22. Obligatory, I suppose by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

    Request for urgent business relationship

    First, I must solicit your strictest confidence in this transaction. This is by virtue of its nature as being utterly confidential and 'top secret'. I am sure and have confidence of your ability and reliability to prosecute a transaction of this great magnitude involving a pending transaction requiring maxiimum confidence.

    We are top official of the federal government contract review panel who are interested in imporation of goods into our country with funds which are presently trapped in nigeria. In order to commence this business we solicit your assistance to enable us transfer into your account the said trapped funds.

    The source of this fund is as follows; during the last military regime here in nigeria, the government officials set up companies and awarded themselves contracts which were grossly over-invoiced in various ministries. The present civilian government set up a contract review panel and we have identified a lot of inflated contract funds which are presently floating in the central bank of nigeria ready for payment.

    However, by virtue of our position as civil servants and members of this panel, we cannot acquire this money in our names. I have therefore, been delegated as a matter of trust by my colleagues of the panel to look for an overseas partner into whose account we would transfer the sum of us$21,320,000.00(Twenty one million, three hundred and twenty thousand u.S dollars). Hence we are writing you this letter. We have agreed to share the money thus; 1. 20% For the account owner 2. 70% For us (the officials) 3. 10% To be used in settling taxation and all local and foreign expenses. It is from the 70% that we wish to commence the importation business.

    Please,note that this transaction is 100% safe and we hope to commence the transfer latest seven (7) banking days from the date of the receipt of the following informatiom by tel/fax; 234-1-7740449, your company's signed, and stamped letterhead paper the above information will enable us write letters of claim and job description respectively. This way we will use your company's name to apply for payment and re-award the contract in your company's name.

    We are looking forward to doing this business with you and solicit your confidentiality in this transation. Please acknowledge the receipt of this letter using the above tel/fax numbers. I will send you detailed information of this pending project when I have heard from you.

    Yours faithfully,

    Dr. Clement Okon

    note; please quote this reference number (ve/s/09/99) in all your responses.

    1. Re:Obligatory, I suppose by ReverendLoki · · Score: 1

      How passe' - The current version of this scam tries to bilk you of $700B. And judging by the news, it still works.

      I actually hadn't seen one of these (the real scam, not the parodies) for some time until I received one just the other week. I actually felt a tinge of nostalgia when I saw what it was.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
  23. When you get conned... by drooling-dog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...it's because you're a gullible fool. When I get conned, it's because someone "took advantage of the human oxytocin-mediated attachment system". Well, who wouldn't fall for that?

    1. Re:When you get conned... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I get conned, its because of Human Oxytocin-Meidated Oligophrenia. Yes, its the fault of a HOMO.

  24. "Vote for me" by Hao+Wu · · Score: 1

    I love the voters!

    Invest in me = invest in YOURSELF!

    --
    I suggest you read Slashdot
  25. That explains charity cons by davidwr · · Score: 2, Funny

    That explains all the suspicious "please help me" posts on Craigslist.

    One of these days I'm going to open CL and see this:

    Dear Esteemed Sir;
    I represent mYself, a poor Nigerian pe asant with FIVE MILLION CHILDREN to feed. I beg of you please do not send food or it will be STOLEN by corrupt officials. Instead please wire THE SUM OF 10 MILLIION US DOLLARS to [Western Union recipient information deleted for posting to Slashdot] so that I may buy food for my fAamily and pay off the police so they don't rape my daughters.

    Thank You and God Bless.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  26. I feel I must apologize for the truth. by w0mprat · · Score: 1

    "If we humans have such big brains, how can we get conned?"

    Because, of the miserably depressing truth. That perhaps only a tiny percentage of human beings are actually smart, they get to design and engineer stuff and ponder quantum mechanics and zip about in orbit and fly jet fighters, these few are what we measure the success of the human endeavour on. While the rest of us do the equivalent contribution in intellectual terms of plowing fields and shoveling shit. Going further, there are also many of us who actively work against the continued prosperity of the human civilization and some even outright threaten our long term survival. In reality were are defenseless overclocked monkeys that are easily duped.

    Conclusion: The human brain is incredible bit of computational kit, but it doesn't necessarily follow that it is any good. It is a unstable, bloated and virus ridden computer, with numerous security flaws, and rather than merely crashing and rebooting, by design it never stops, it continues running producing bad data until corruption overruns it and causes the human to get killed (hopefully not breeding first).

    Further reduced conclusion: Humans are as stupid as possible for an intelligent species.

    --
    After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
    1. Re:I feel I must apologize for the truth. by LockeOnLogic · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Remember how complex the task of navigating the world in any sort of functional manner is. As evidence look at how successful AI is in navigating across a room with furniture. For all its flaws, the mind has an amazing capacity to navigate it's environment and accomplish goals, even if you don't agree with said goals. Every brain is a marvel, even as screwed up as we are.

  27. Most of that 2 percent work on WallStreet. by Bonzoli · · Score: 1

    Its the bottom feeders you see, the smartest of that 2 percent aspire to Manage large multinational companies where they play the role of Neutral Evil Management. Treating you like crap, pilfering the company, and making you think its a Career.

    Wall street anyone? It looks like the biggest Pidgen drop game in the world. AIG has to be the biggest winner here.

    1. Re:Most of that 2 percent work on WallStreet. by mcpkaaos · · Score: 1

      JP Morgan has AIG beat by a long shot. Check out what they did/are doing to Wamu and be amazed.

      --
      It goes from God, to Jerry, to me.
  28. Conning may be one end of a spectrum of behaviors by ksynr · · Score: 1

    If you view a targeted con as one extreme of a continuum of interpersonal behaviors designed to "influence" the target (the conner) in some way for the "benefit" of the connee, and establishing oneself as vulnerable in some way is a way to establish trust, then there are probably a variety of situations where such vulnerability could be effective in achieving a desired outcome. The con may just be someone who "consciously" and systematically exploits this mechanism for material, physical, emotional or social gain. We may all use the mechanism in certain situations, even unconsciously, so it doesn't have to be nefarious. But being conscious, mindful, that vulnerability is in play in a situation might enable us to mitigate it's more "automatic" effects. Of course, if you're dealing with a predator, which is how we usually describe a hard core con, being vulnerable to the predator only insures your loss or demise. So we have to recognize when we're dealing with a smart predator / con, who can lull us into unwise actions by appearing vulnerable and engaging our trust. That's where that gut level feeling comes in of "uh oh", this doesn't sound, seem, smell right, or the con detector. I assume we can differ in ability to detect cons, just as cons can differ in their level of sophistication.

  29. You can't con an honest man by istartedi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When dealing with $3,000 a light has to go off in your head that says "there are procedures for dealing with this". Go to the police. Tell the guy you'll walk to the nearest police station with him, or that you'll call the non-emergency number with your cel phone. The police will hold the money for a statutory limit, and if nobody claims it, THEN you might get it. YMMV on the laws in your jurisdiction and how honest the cops are.

    Now, if you're not a totally honest man a different light goes off in your head. That light says "How can I get this money, nevermind the victim or due process".

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    1. Re:You can't con an honest man by LockeOnLogic · · Score: 1

      A totally honest man doesn't exist. Remember in DnD (2nd edition I believe, wow i'm a nerd but at least I was young) when one of the suggested methods of destroying an artifact item was to have it crushed under the heel of an honest man? I believe one of the other ones was to throw it into the center of the sun.

    2. Re:You can't con an honest man by mcpkaaos · · Score: 1

      A successful con needs only a single lapse in judgment, regardless of the mark's character. Anyone can be a victim, and most everyone is at one point in time or another.

      --
      It goes from God, to Jerry, to me.
    3. Re:You can't con an honest man by istartedi · · Score: 1

      "You can't con an honest man" is said to be a saying within underworld circles; perhaps by people who are not actually in those circles. I'm not sure who coined it, but it's more a turn of phrase and/or rule of thumb than an absolute. I mean, if it were an absolute, you would only need one honest man conned in order to disprove it. I didn't mean to imply it should be taken to that extreme.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    4. Re:You can't con an honest man by daigu · · Score: 1

      The light that should go off in your head is - Who walks around with $3,000 dollars in cash in their wallet? Followed by, if it was one of those rare instances where perhaps someone had to make a big purchase in cash, who's going to be so careless as to misplace the wallet?

      This ain't about rational thought.

    5. Re:You can't con an honest man by acheron12 · · Score: 1

      But when you hand it in at the police station, what light goes off in the policeman's head?

      --
      there is no god but truth, and reality is its prophet
    6. Re:You can't con an honest man by aug24 · · Score: 1

      According to the quite excellent book "The Big Con", there is a saying among 'grifters' to the effect of "You can't con an honest man".

      Pretty much all cons require you to have the 'different light' in your head that you describe so eloquently... thus I am generally not much worried when I hear of people being conned.

      There are, of course, cons that no decent human would stoop to (telling old ladies their roof is about to fall in, but luckily, you, a roofer, are passing, and for only $$$$...), but these are not the subject of this article.

      Justin.

      --
      You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
    7. Re:You can't con an honest man by YttriumOxide · · Score: 1

      Who walks around with $3,000 dollars in cash in their wallet?

      I generally walk around with anywhere up to a little over a thousand euro in my wallet... I get a thousand out of the bank whenever I'm almost out, and then live on that until it runs out again. Not quite $3000, but still significant enough for this kind of con to be effective on some people I'd imagine.

      who's going to be so careless as to misplace the wallet?

      But yep - there's the rub. Even ignoring the money side of it, I can't imagine ever misplacing my wallet. It's got my credit cards (nothing owing on them, high credit limit), driver's license, pass-card for work, and so much other stuff in it that there's simply no way I go ANYWHERE without it... it's in my pocket, or on my bedside table, simple as that.
      I'd work on the assumption that any lost wallet has been lost by someone who really doesn't care that much about the contents of it. Any wallet apparently lost with valuable contents (such as $3000) is going to raise serious alarm bells immediately.

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    8. Re:You can't con an honest man by JBHarris · · Score: 1

      For all intents and purposes, "intensive purposes" is and never has been a saying, unless you are in the ICU at a hospital.

  30. Ponzi Scheme In Colombia by gacl · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A huge Ponzi network just fell in Colombia, encompassing many cities and more than a billion dollars in loses:

    http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=320773&CategoryId=12393

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_JZL9pC6-8

    I've heard somthing similar also happened in Bolivia. I think it's all about greed/dreams of easy money.

  31. Beware of modern neurophrenology by LockeOnLogic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is no doubt that functional imaging such as fMRI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fmri) PET (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positron_emission_tomography) and MEG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoencephalography) have been a tremendous boon to the field of neuroscience. But seeing localized activity in the brain and then drawing a conclusion about the mechanisms of behavior is the wrong way to interpret the data. I hate Psychology Today for pulling this crap all the time, activity in the brain is simply data to be interpreted, not a conclusion in itself. This is like when a segment of DNA is implicated in some sort of behavior or developmental trait, and we see the headlines "X gene discovered!!!". The question is simply too complex to answer with that kind of analysis.

    We cannot view the brain as a simple modular system, which merely needs a circuit diagram drawn to discover its mysteries. Functional specialization no doubt exists, but in an interconnected and complex way that resists simple explanations of "oh, this part of the brain lit up during this therefore this". Localization alone tells us little, it is only in complement with studies of neurotransmitter mechanisms, single cell recordings, computational theories, and numerous other techniques of brain exploration that any real answers are going to be found. THOMAS doesn't explain anything, its just a piece in the puzzle.

    1. Re:Beware of modern neurophrenology by PPH · · Score: 1

      Put this helmet with all these wires sticking out on my my head? Trust you? No f*king way, man!

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Beware of modern neurophrenology by ProfM · · Score: 1

      We cannot view the brain as a simple modular system, which merely needs a circuit diagram drawn to discover its mysteries.

      So, what you're saying is that the brain is like a series of tubes ...

  32. Because even smart people do stupid things by Orion+Blastar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Germany during World War II, for example, most believed and followed Hitler. Germany had some smart people, but they made stupid decisions and fell for Hitler's scam.

    The same is true of Democratic and Republican US citizens falling for their candidate's scams. Once elected into office, do you really think they will keep every promise they made and do what they told their supporters they would do?

    If it sounds too good to be true, most of the time it isn't true at all, it is a scam.

    If, for example, you get an email saying you won the UK lottery chances are it is a scam, or Bill Gates giving out millions if you forward this email to 20 of your friends and family, it is a scam, or someone dying in Nigeria with your last name and has $10 million waiting to be wired to you and need your contact info and banking numbers etc, it is a scam.

    --
    Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
  33. About #1 or #2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It would be very interesting if he just took it. After all the wallet had no ID and the other two did claim it was not theirs.

  34. Is Paul J. Zak the Treasurer of Zimbabwe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... Because he just asked me to wire him $50,000 to help him get the funds out of the country.

  35. Truth (or trust) serum? by rasteroid · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If, as the article claims, oxytocin "induces a desire to reciprocate [trust]", whether it could form the basis of some sort of truth serum? Inject some oxytocin into somebody who has something to hide, and introduce this person to an actor who pretends to be very trusting. I wonder if this would encourage the oxytocin-induced person to reveal secrets once sufficient trust is gained by the actor...

    1. Re:Truth (or trust) serum? by darkmeridian · · Score: 1

      You have just discovered jailhouse snitches.

      --
      A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
    2. Re:Truth (or trust) serum? by JuliusSu · · Score: 1

      It doesn't need to be injected -- inhaling oxytocin spray makes people more likely to hand over their money to a trustee to invest.

  36. If I was the mark in the video... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ...just pause a little and wait for the other guy to react with a "no", then follow it up with a "yup, that's mine".

    You then put them on the back foot to fight for it, or you get the whole thing, take the moolah and then turn the rest of the card/license etc into authorities. For someone losing their wallet, getting their card and stuff back is the fair-result, not too many would be lucky enough to keep the cash... so you're still a good samaritan for giving back the stuff that's hard to manage :p

  37. The first rule of the con... by riceboy50 · · Score: 1

    You can't cheat an honest man because an honest man doesn't want something for nothing. -Hustle

    --
    ~ I am logged on, therefore I am.
  38. Only 2 percent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    of the college students are potential con artists. Come on, just ask the college students about relationships and count how many that have been screwed over. Somehow I doubt it will be anywhere near 2 percent.

    1. Re:Only 2 percent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forget about all the female college students.

  39. Famous cons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Some very successful cons have happened right in the public eye recently.... ...one to the tune of 700 billion...

  40. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  41. I wondered how Obama got elected... by meburke · · Score: 1

    OK, obvious flamebait. However, there must be an explanation somewhere for how people will work for weeks (BOTH patrties) to get someone elected and they don't even know the job descriptions or the candidate's background.

    --
    "The mind works quicker than you think!"
  42. Your definition of "greed" might be broken by Fmuctohekerr · · Score: 1

    Greed is where in your selfish desire for something you do something "wrong" to get it that harms another. However, sometimes it's hard to know who you are harming, but still you know you are doing something "wrong."

    If someone simply lies to you and rips you off, that's not a "con". That's just fraud. If you are careful, you can avoid most fraud, but "cons" always rely on greed.

    A lot of people say that some cons work on "honesty" or some other virtue, but I still haven't seen one that would work on an "honest man." For example, in your craigslist scam, you say that the mark expects to get the original asking price, so he's not being greedy. But an honest person is always going to do the right thing, and here the "right" thing to do is to send the check back. Why would the buyer not agree to that? Some kind of hurry? So now you have to decide how badly you want to make your sale. If the buyer is not in a hurry then... send the check back. If you want to make the sale so badly that you'll take the wrong payment just because the buyer is in a hurry... ask the IRS how honest you are in your accounting and bookkeeping. It's not honest to knowingly sell a $10 thing for $100 now and "fix it later." Of course it is an honest mistake to sell something that you meant to sell for $50 for $100, and then refund the difference, but that's not what's happening here. Oh, you can "let's just say that's what happened" but hey, you would be a liar.

    I think its obvious that the "mark is working on" the desire to make the sale, and if he does something that's wrong, shady or just doesn't make sense to make it happen, hey, most of us call that greed.

    Sometimes the "other person" that gets harmed is yourself. But if you always follow the "right path" nobody will get hurt.

    Now, if you come up to me and tell me you lost your wallet and I give you $20 out of kindness, because I "trust" you... well, you aren't Paul Newman in "The Sting" here... you are just a liar.

    And I thought of that before I gave you the $20.

    Also, in the linked video, if the mark had simply said, "Uh, let's just call the police. I don't care what you do, I think I'm just going to call the police right now. We definitely should turn $3000 lying on the sidewalk over to the authorities." Then, no con would have happened. Or maybe even, "I don't want any part of this." In the latter he's perhaps not the best citizen, but at least he honest.

    No?

    1. Re:Your definition of "greed" might be broken by I+cant+believe+its+n · · Score: 1

      If someone simply lies to you and rips you off, that's not a "con". That's just fraud. If you are careful, you can avoid most fraud, but "cons" always rely on greed.

      Although english isn't my first language, I suspect that fraud is a legal term and that "con" is just another word for an elaborate trick. In my opinion, nothing to do with greed in the victim, although common.

      I have two examples of "honesty cons" I've seen myself:
      * A girl approached us at Liverpool trainstation, very upset, claiming that her jealous boyfriend had left her stranded in the city without any money. She asked for a pound or two in order to call her dad. I told her I could make the call for her, but strangely she lost interest in us. Several hours later, as we where going back to Manchester, I saw this unfortunate girl again, and she was still trying to "call her dad". Interestingly enough, she did not recognize us from before and asked again.

      * When I was food shopping, a man asked me very politely for some money for his hungry kids. He was new to the country, the social office had messed up his payment and their office was now closed. (The horrible thing about this type of lie is that it leeches on peoples kindness, making society worse.) Even though a part of me actually believed him, I did not give him any money because I thought it was a con. Later I saw the same guy leaving with some really crappy expensive ready made kidsfood and a box of cigarettes. Had he bought flour, eggs, sugar and yeast he could have feed the family for a week for the same amount of money. I'm still not sure if it was a trick or if he was just really stupid. Either way he deserves death, for lying and killing my trust or for buying cigarettes when his kids are starving.

      If you want to make the sale so badly that you'll take the wrong payment just because the buyer is in a hurry... ask the IRS how honest you are in your accounting and bookkeeping. It's not honest to knowingly sell a $10 thing for $100 now and "fix it later."

      You don't know what you are talking about. Do you honestly believe that the IRS would mind if your customers pays you too much? If you pay back the surplus amount, nothing is wrong in your books. Do you think the IRS would drag you to jail if I sent $1000 to your bank account for no reason?

      I actually run a business and as long as your transactions are documented you are in the clear with the tax authorities. Basically, you would owe the overshooting amount to this customer in your own records. Still, any respectable business owner would repay overpayments when discovered. Regardless if you have any moral or not, the customer in question would discover this himself later and would have lost any trust he had in you, for not letting him know of his mistake.

      --
      She made the willows dance
    2. Re:Your definition of "greed" might be broken by Fmuctohekerr · · Score: 1
      No offense, but did you actually read my post?

      Although english isn't my first language, I suspect that fraud is a legal term and that "con" is just another word for an elaborate trick.

      YES. Feel free to believe that 'lie', 'fraud', 'cheat', 'trick' and 'confidence game' are all synonyms. If you want to pretend the girl in the station was running a "confidence game" on you, I guess I can try and talk you out of it, but it looks like it'll be tough to convince you. My point was simply that 'con' != 'lie'. Confidence games are a proper subset of lies, but not all lies are confidence games.

      But this is getting pointless. I might as well try and suggest hacker != cracker next.

      You don't know what you are talking about. Do you honestly believe that the IRS would mind if your customers pays you too much?

      Well, yes, I kinda do know what I'm talking about.

      Do you think the IRS would drag you to jail if I sent $1000 to your bank account for no reason?

      Uh, yes. Well, no one said anything about jail, but if I give you $1000 dollars for "no reason" then it's considered a "gift" and if you call it "revenue" then you are a liar. If you book $500 COGS on that $1000, then either you made $500 dollars profit, and I received something in return, or you are a liar.

      What you are describing is called "money laundering." We're not talking about accidental "overpayments," I said "knowingly" misstating journal records, i.e. inventing or deliberately misstating transactions in your books. Are you sure you know what you are talking about? Running a business doesn't mean you are running it correctly, or that you understand accounting and book keeping, or can read very carefully.

      I said if you "knowingly sell a $10 thing for $100 and then 'fix it later'" you are lying. I didn't say if you sold something that cost you $10 for $100 you were lying. For fuck's sake, that's just called profit. No, there's the "fix it later" part you forgot to read.

      Some advice for you. If in your business, someone "overpays" with a check for, say, $10,000 on a $1000 sale... and wants you to simply send them a check for the difference... and they are in a rush... it has to happen right away... why don't you tell your customer to stop payment on the check, send a new one, and (if you've already deposited it) make a few adjusting transactions in your books? Or I suppose you could go ahead with the bullshit transaction and just say later that the con artist took advantage of your "honesty." Whatever works I guess.

      Ever heard of a company that books revenue fraudulently? There was a whole bunch of that during the tech boom a few years ago and Enron was pulling that. Yeah, it's kinda wrong.

      Enron's Endgame

      My whole point is that people usually say (incorrectly) that "confidence games" take advantage of people's greed AND honesty. Even wiki says so

      confidence trick

      But I'm suggesting that there is a BIG difference between merely lying to someone and "gaining their confidence." I'm suggesting that wiki (and several people here on slashdot) are missing the whole point of confidence games if you call mere deception a "con."

      I'm also suggesting that people are not taking a true inventory of their own "greed." Wiki gives something similar to the craiglist check scam as an example of how to cheat an "honest man." Well, I think wiki and the poster above an you too are wrong and you are forgetting that the desire to make the sale is what's driving this con... impatience, greed. A business keeping solid books would simply undo the transaction properly (even if it means you might lose the sale) and redo it... not "forward the difference before the check clears." I could NEVER run this scam on my corporate vendors. They would just laugh and say, "Uh, we don't d

    3. Re:Your definition of "greed" might be broken by I+cant+believe+its+n · · Score: 1

      You are obviously and intelligent guy with morals, but I hope to think this is true for me to.
      I have turned away customers whom I do not wish to be associated with and have also walked away from money on the table, when things seem forced or when you just feel something is "off".

      Regarding my accused fraudulent behaviour, I would not send the customer a credit invoice simply because this would mean that they now have overpaid even more. The invoice is just U-OWE-ME documentation. The money sent should match the documentation or one of the parties now owe the other guy some money. The paperwork must balance the real money and if you have too much money in the bankaccount, there will simply be some other account in your bookkeeping that has increased, showing that you now owe your customer.

      I would never cash a check this way, in part because it is inefficent and we only deal with direct bank transfers, but more importantly because something is obviously wrong here. Still, A long time ago, when transactions took several days, I have had customers (old trusted japanese company) who overpaid us. I then contacted them, told them of the situation and was told "the next time we buy something, we will pay as much less as you now received in surplus". It is kind of like being the bank for this customer.

      --
      She made the willows dance
    4. Re:Your definition of "greed" might be broken by Fmuctohekerr · · Score: 1

      Well, to be honest, I have no idea how to handle a customer sending me a check for too much. I would probably just call them and figure something out.

      :)

      But I would want to do it "the right way" whatever that is...

      By credit memo, I just mean we'll keep the money and credit the customer's receivable account. They'll owe us less. Again, I've never done this for a check that was too much, so maybe there is something I'm missing. It was just an example of a better bookkeeping option, but of course, it would only apply for trade credit.

      Cash sales with checks (esp. checks that are too much) are tricky and I usually avoid them altogether. Credit cards much better. Yes, just walk away rather than do something flaky, I agree.

      And I'm sorry, I was not implying that you were a fraudster, just annoyed with the "you don't know what you are talking about" comment, obviously.

      I probably should have said "SEC" instead of "IRS" anyway, but you know what I mean.

    5. Re:Your definition of "greed" might be broken by knails · · Score: 1

      Show me some etymological proof of the word 'con' and it's original intended meaning, and maybe you argument will hold water. But just spouting off that there necessarily has to be a difference between scam and con by yourself proves nothing to anyone.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" -Voltaire
    6. Re:Your definition of "greed" might be broken by Fmuctohekerr · · Score: 1

      Etymology? That's what we're talking about!

      Herman Melville is probably the most responsible to popularizing this term. So what?

      Read books about cons. Watch movies about cons. Study where this word started and how it has evolved as part of the language and culture.

      William Thompson Melville

      "Con" means "confidence", and no one is really arguing that it means something else. I am suggesting that "cons" are a proper subset of "tricks" or "scams". If you want to treat them as synonyms, no one is stopping you. The actual con artists and authors on the subject use this word differently than you, does that count as etymology, or are you just going to look up the dictionary definition of "confidence?"

      This interview should give you the line of thought I'm following.

      Q: What does it take to be a successful con man, besides good luck? Who is the most successful con man you've personally known?

      A: I think I could write a book answering your question. But here's a short version. Luck rarely comes into a play with a con. Being a con man requires a thorough understanding of human nature and human greed. W. C. Fields's expression "You can't cheat an honest man" is at the core of any good con. And a con man must be willing to spend long hours (sometimes weeks or even months) to execute a successful con. Planning is everything. The most successful con man I've ever met must remain anonymous. He got out of the rackets and now runs a successful business.

      If you are seriously interested, just read through these cons on wiki: list of cons

      My "argument" is that it is pointless to call everything deceptive or sneaky a "con." Waiting till you leave your house and breaking in to stealing your TV is not a "con." Fixing you up with an ugly girl so I can date her friend is not a "con". Cheating on a test is not a "con."

      Do you call the lottery a "con?" Why or why not? Because the dictionary says so? Read through the most common "cons" and see if you see a pattern. My argument holds plenty of water.

      Greed is the primary element in the "classic cons." I didn't make this up. What are you smoking?

      etymology : The origin and historical development of a linguistic form as shown by determining its basic elements, earliest known use, and changes in form and meaning, tracing its transmission from one language to another, identifying its cognates in other languages, and reconstructing its ancestral form where possible.

  43. You don't think these are greedy behaviours? by Fmuctohekerr · · Score: 1

    Wow, again with the misunderstanding of greed.

    tv preachers

    If you think God wants you to give your money away, you can find somebody to take it. You got exactly what you wanted, this is a service, not a con. If you believe a tv preacher when he promises you worldly happiness or health if you give him money, then you are greedy (and stupid) and this is a con.

    Lemon car

    If the dealer lied about the car, it's just fraud. Maybe you are too trusting, but again, this ain't David Mamet here. If he says that the owner priced it too low and didn't understand how awesome the car really is, but will probably figure it out soon, BUY NOW, then he's appealing to your greed and it's a con.

    Fugly date

    Are you kidding me? Hey I know this hot chick that's just shy... she's yours for the taking, just show up! I don't know why she doesn't have a boyfriend... lucky you! This is greed. If it isn't, then for fucks sake, go enjoy yourself with the fugly girl! You can't be seen with an unattractive girl? Then why are you going out on blind dates?

    The honest wingman here either goes out to help his buddy (doesn't matter what she looks like) or has his own stable of hotties. I know this is /., but you've seen it on tv or something, I'm sure.

    Or am I missing something fundamental about human nature? Or are you?

    1. Re:You don't think these are greedy behaviours? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Well, if you boil it down, everything comes back to greed then, based on yours (and some other /.ers) understanding of human nature. There's a school of thought within psychological behaviorism that says that most people act in ways that are more or less selfish -- the reason you do nice things for other people is because it makes you feel good, not because you have any sort of true benevolence or philanthropy.

      Disclousre: my wife, who is a trained psychologist, is more or less a behaviorist, while my own thinking seems to be more in step with the cognitive revolution going on in psychology and neuroscience today. Maybe one day I'll have her convinced that we're not all a bunch of salivating dogs... ;) *ducking* (Just kidding, honey!) Note I am NOT a psychologist, but I play one /. ;)

    2. Re:You don't think these are greedy behaviours? by Fmuctohekerr · · Score: 1

      I do tend to see most "altruistic" and "benevolent" behavior as ultimately self-serving (if not exactly greedy).

      I would like to think that we have the capacity to do the "right thing," however. It may because you want to think of yourself as a "right person" (pride) or because you love order in the universe (a selfish aesthetic sense) or because of common sense (selfish desire for a functioning society).

      I also would like to think children try to please their parents because they want to be loved (as opposed to merely fed and clothed). I would also like to think that some humans want to please their God (or their wives) in the same way.

      Either way though, I think you "busted" me and yes, I am probably pessimistic when it comes to human nature and human altruism. But I still believe that it is hard to "con" someone who appeals to a higher ethic ("no such thing as a free lunch" or "honesty"), regardless of whatever selfish motive they have.

      I do not, however, equate selfishness with greed. You may have selfish reasons for not being greedy, but what's wrong with that?

      Thanks for the interesting comment... this has me thinking about the Nash equilibrium again...

  44. his point was... by Fmuctohekerr · · Score: 1

    I think his point was that a "confidence trick" involves gaining the mark's (or taking the mark into) the confidence of the trickster, as opposed to merely getting the mark to feel "confident" that the trickster is not lying.

    If you watch the linked video, you'll see the guy explaining about "inner circles" and "outer circles" and the con relies upon the mark thinking he's in the inner circle. Using the term "confidence trick" to describe a car salesmen who sells you a lemon renders the term meaningless. That kind of thinking eventually waters down our language to the point where every word is a synonym for "good" or "bad."

    Cons are cons. Frauds are frauds. Lies are lies.

    If your friend says, "hey man can I borrow $20 I'll pay you back later" and never does... well, you can call that a "con" if you want. I don't.

    I don't think the "Christian Children's Fund" or "UNICEF" or the "Red Cross" are exactly what we mean when we use the word "confidence scheme."

    But you can, if you want.

  45. Absolutely wrong. by gr8scot · · Score: 1
    From the summary:

    'The key to a con is not that you trust the con man, but that he shows he trusts you. Con men ply their trade by appearing fragile or needing help, by seeming vulnerable,' writes Zak. 'Because of THOMAS, the human brain makes us feel good when we help others -- this is the basis for attachment to family and friends and cooperation with strangers.'

    We all experience greed, but knowing that everybody else does too, we are naturally suspicious of "something for nothing," especially if offered by another human. Plants and animals we expect to be able to eat. Thus, the survival advantage of action based on reciprocal trust. Social conventions complex enough to turn this mechanism to any individual's disadvantage are relatively recent in homo sapiens' time on Earth, thus the yet-unsolved problem of con people.

    --
    All 19 hijackers were known terrorists 09-10-2001. Lack of FBI intelligence does not justify warrantless wiretaps..
  46. I'd fundamentally like to believe this. . . by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But I don't. --It doesn't stop me from endeavoring to be honest, but there are certain types of cons which honest people fall for, perhaps more easily than the corrupt.

    Like this whole sham economy we have running around us. Ideas like, paying back the bank interest feels natural because an honest man doesn't want something for nothing. And yet it's arguably one of the biggest, most willfully destructive scams currently going.

    Just a thought.

    -FL

  47. The difference between a mark and being kind? by slew · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't see how your definition of being a mark to a con-man because of greed and just being kind to a liar is any different.

    The action(s) performed are done in both cases are generally under your own free will.
    The perceived harm is in the eye of the beholder (it's either charity or the sting of being conned).

    If the only difference is in the "heart" of the mark before it happens, perhaps there is something objective. But that isn't something you can be always sure you know about you need to just trust sometimes. If the only difference is in your heart after it happens, then it is only subjective distinction.

    Think for example, about a case where someone running an opensource project asks you to donate some time coding for a project and later parts of that project are fed into some closed source project. Basically, you are being charitable and the people running the project are cons.

    However, if you never find out about the later action, and you made the donation of your effort being kind under your own free will, are you a mark? Or are you greedy for wanting your donation of time and effort to go to opensource only? Are you stupid for trusting the people running the project or are you stupid for thinking it's impossible for your donation to ever fall into a closed source project? Is it stupid to fully trust anyone? Are you really con-ned even though you aren't aware of the later action? Why would it change if found out much later?

    Or maybe perhaps someone is playing on your sense of charity (and not greed) and your trust that they are what they appear to represent to con you (even if you didn't know it)?

    That is why it's called a con (short for confidence). People running "cons" gain your con-fidence, then take advantage when you aren't expecting it. Greed isn't always required. But some level of trust is required for a con and we (as a species) appear to be trusting perhaps more than we should be in some circumstances.

    You can call it being kind liars if it allows you to sleep at night, though ;^)

    1. Re:The difference between a mark and being kind? by Fmuctohekerr · · Score: 1

      Well, the distinction is only important if you actually care about the mechanics of a con. My point is that there is a difference (and it's a not-so-subtle one) between mere, crass dishonesty, a "scam," a "short con" and a confidence scheme proper.

      I know that "con" is short for "confidence," thanks for that. And that's the point. If a guy comes up to me on the street and tells me a hard luck story and I give him $20, you can call it a "con job" if you want, I'll call it a lie and continue to reserve "con job" for when the trickster has truly brought me into his confidence. You really don't need all these different words, not the way you're using them.

      I'll sleep ok no matter what word you use, by the way. My point is that if I ever give money to somebody because of a hard luck story (and it has happened) I'm not so naive to assume that he's not lying. There is no confidence here, just charity, freely given with no expectations and not a little bit of suspicion. Same goes for giving to the Red Cross. I know that the Red Cross uses an inordinate amount of resources doing fundraising; I'd prefer my donation only go to helping others, not for raising more money. But if I give anyway, let's not call it a "con job". A "scam," maybe, or perhaps just reality.

      open source

      Well, that's interesting. I can only assume that you signed over your copyrights on somebody's word that the final product was going to be released under the GPL or similar. Is this a con? Maybe. If you were honestly altruistic then why not release your code into the public domain without any credit? Oh, you wanted some credit? You want some control over the final product (GPL)? Yet you didn't do your own open source project, you decided to join this one. Why? If you can't see that you are not 100% disinterested in this (and the would-be consters were playing you) then I'm not sure I can convince you of that.

      Besides, if the code-base was already GPL then no con of this sort if possible. So you would have had to do the work and sign over the copyrights all without seeing anything ever GPL'd? Why on earth would you do that?

      I would like a term that I can apply for a deceptive act, where I loose something, yet thought I was getting something, moreover I thought I was getting more than I thought I deserved. The pigeon drop, the Spanish prisoner, get rich quick schemes, advance fee schemes, so forth and etc are NOT the same thing as not disclosing mold in your walls before you sell your house, paying with wooden nickles, melon drops, or change raising at a fast food restaurant. For these disparate things, we have different terms: scam, lie, cheat, short con, counterfeiting, so on. Three Card Monte or the shell game is not a con... just a scam. Vegas is a scam, not a con. Lotteries are scams, not cons. Three Card Monte BECOMES a scam when a shill is involved... making the intrepid gambler (who was about to be scammed anyway from the dishonest game) actually play or bet more by thinking the game is easy, therefore his greed kicks in.

      Is this all so hard to understand?

      I'm not saying to not trust people. Or telling you how to sleep better at night. I'm simply jumping in on these comments because

      • We have all kinds of terms for these things, let's use them (correctly)
      • The "con" (and the subject of the article) only works if the mark is "greedy" - if it doesn't it's not a con

      Feel free to disagree, but understand what I'm saying (and not saying) first.

      If you follow the philosophy of "there's no such thing as a free lunch" then you will never be "conned." If you are an "honest man" you will never be "conned." You may still be lied to, you may still buy a bad automobile, you may even give some money to a bad charity, but you won't be "conned" if you understand what that actually means.

      If you want to continue to trust people, and yet you still don't want to be lied to, you'll have to be like Ronald Reagan and "Trust But Verify."

  48. Con component: time almost running out by Amitz+Sekali · · Score: 1

    Con rely on various aspects to be sucessful. One important aspect is time constraint.

    Most con will not let you take the time to think carefully. Con that rely on greed, will make it such that the free lunch will disappear if you don't bite it soon. Con that rely on trusting people, will make it such that the other people can't be helped if you don't act soon. Con that rely on simpathy, will make you overwhelmed with guilty feeling if you don't act soon.

    Whenever someone press you to decide on something ASAP while overwhelming you with information and showing you the rapidity of changes/development, step back and be cautious.

    * I deal with a lot of con artists in my line of business.

    --
    If you delay pleasure infinitely, the pleasure will be infinite. (YM)
    1. Re:Con component: time almost running out by YouWantFriesWithThat · · Score: 1

      I deal with a lot of con artists in my line of business.

      do tell, that sounds interesting

  49. The Big Story by Msdose · · Score: 1

    Yeah, this would have been a big story if it would have said that Government and Religion use these techniques to enslave the populace. But then the authors would have been thrown in a dungeon or burned at the stake and, worse, not gotten any grant money.

  50. Con games - my personal experience by VoidCrow · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Someone tried to con me over the chat (initially via OKStupid) a while back. It wasn't the usual brand of 419 scam (email full of hilarious malapropisms, bizarrely pompous status claims, heavily reliance on affiliation with God, et cetera).

    It was personal.

    The person put time into it. I'll use 'she' because she presented as a woman, a Dutch woman in her mid 50s. I can usually tell when a guy is trying to pass as a woman in chat as the conversation devolves to sex within about two minutes and thirty seconds; there's zero emotional content.

    She was dying of cancer. She was straight. I'm not, but in any case, and in all truth, she wasn't the kind of person I'd choose as a partner. No matter, she seemed like a sweet and decent person. Not overly smart, not stupid. Good at connecting; she liked talking about emotions and the people in her life. So do I. She told me about her husband and how much she'd loved and missed him (he'd died not long before). We talked about all sorts of inconsequential trivia. She talked, off and on, for about three months. She told me about her faith. How sweet - I'm an atheist, but I honestly find the nicer Christians to be good and sincere company (not *you*, you dribbling neocon fuckwits). About half-way through the three months, she said she wanted to arrange a will, and that she had no-one left that she could trust to act as executor. She wanted *me* to play that role. I was surprised and flattered, and not so certain of my own moral compass (I was really down on cash and a student at the time) that I felt comfortable with the idea. I told her I was an atheist (I hadn't brought it up until then - I don't tend to preach). She said it didn't matter; she said that she trusted me. I told her I'd think about it.

    She didn't press the issue, until about six weeks later. This time ostensibly from her hospital bed in London (she'd been mobile and functional up until that point).

    She underlined her desperation. She talked about practical mechanisms by means of which I could accomplish my role. She made one mistake: she asked for my bank account details. I asked her why she couldn't open a new account on which I would have signing powers. After all, it would keep the finances clean and separate and allow for proof that I'd fulfilled my duties correctly, should need arise. She didn't give a satisfactory answer, and at *that* point, the penny dropped. I felt hurt and stupid. I voiced my feelings. I stopped talking to her.

    There was still the nagging doubt that she might have been for-real, so I did nothing beyond this. I continued to feel guilty about the possibility that her story was true until time, and continual analysis of the event, satisfied me that she was full of shit.

    Why, though, did she target *me*? I was a *poor* physics student at the time. And why did she spend so much time on it? We probably chatted a total of maybe 16-20 hours. In that time she could have made more money working at McDonalds than she'd have made out of *my* account...

    Unless there are other identity-theft related uses for a genuine bank account belonging to a real human. With history.

    1. Re:Con games - my personal experience by gknoy · · Score: 1

      She talked, off and on, for about three months....

      Why, though, did she target *me*? I was a *poor* physics student at the time. And why did she spend so much time on it? We probably chatted a total of maybe 16-20 hours. In that time she could have made more money working at McDonalds than she'd have made out of *my* account...

      Unless there are other identity-theft related uses for a genuine bank account belonging to a real human. With history.

      (emphasis mine)

      In the course of ~3 months, or ~13 work weeks, one has 65*8 hours (assuming a con artist would treat this like a "regular" job). So, in that same period she could have been chatting with 26-32 people (yourself included). If she were able to chat up multiple people at once (which, over IM, is a bit easier since we are more tolerant of delays), there'd be more. You're right, though -- I'm not sure how this would be financially viable. If she only managed to hoodwink 1 person (~4% success rate), that's still probably not a lot of money in those months. Then again, over the course of a year, she'd be trying to con 100-130 people. Perhaps she made enough out of that to make it lucrative.

      I'd rather work a job for that year than spend all day trying to con people. Even if I felt it were morally OK to do, I don't see the profit in it. (Then again, if you're from a 3rd world country, even a few thousand dollars in a year might make it worth it? I don't know.)

  51. Inadvertent reverse pigeon drop by srussia · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It was around the end of the month and I was going from bank to bank (on the same street) in the financial district, making tranfers among various accounts I had. I was dressed in a business suit and was carrying a briefcase.

    After finishing, I sat down at a bus shelter bench (with glass at my back) and my left hand on my briefcase. I hear a knock on the glasss behind me and to the right and turn my head just in time to see a hand pointing at a pile of bills on the sidewalk behind me.

    I look around, and seeing nobody there, I turn around and bend down to reach for the cash, releasing my hold on my briefcase. After collecting the bills, I put my hand back on my briefcase and then I look at it... it had been switched.

    Luckily, my briefcase contained only a pen and some pieces of ID. In exchange I got around 100 bucks and a new briefcase.

    I admit I've been tempted to intentionally replicate this reverse pigeon drop.

    --
    Set your phasers on "funky"!
  52. Con man is such an ugly term... by Aranykai · · Score: 1

    We would much rather you refer to us as "Consultants". This way we can keep working hard for you, because if you cant trust your consultants, who can you trust really?

    --
    If sharing a song makes you a pirate, what do I have to share to be a ninja?
    1. Re:Con man is such an ugly term... by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Seeing how many entry-level positions in local job boards read "XYZ Consultant" I'd think that you can trust a consultant about as much as any other junior-level code monkey.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
  53. Typical study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where is....Altruism:

    5) Is this your wallet?

    And greedy altruism is the key here (evidenced by Nigerian scams):

    6) Hi, I need you to help me find the owner of this wallet. It says 50% finder's reward we can split, if only you could borrow me some money....

    As Always, this just reveals the true nature of the scientists who conducted the study, and not Reality.

  54. My landlord got conned... by kobaz · · Score: 1

    I think the whole thing about honest people never getting conned until they turn greedy is totally true.

    My ex-landlord was conned with a Nigerian scam. I even explained how it all worked to him, while he was going through it. I told him he would get a series of fat checks and the scammer would ask him to send off some of it to a third party. The checks of course bounced after two weeks. Meanwhile the landlord (a PhD at a local college), was in the hole -$300,000.

    I begged him not to fall for it. He went for it anyway, even after many many conversations about exactly how the scam operates.

    --

    The goal of computer science is to build something that will last at least until we've finished building it.
  55. And then there's economists by Livius · · Score: 1

    That financial "bailout" has been a pretty effective scam so far.

  56. Doesn't this apply to the US Presidential election by anegg · · Score: 1

    Hey, I'll change everything, it will be better, I promise. Trust me.

  57. From Nicholas Nickleby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There was something so earnest and guileless in the way in which all this was said, and such a complete disregard of all conventional restraints and coldnesses, that Nicholas could not resist it. Among men who have any sound and sterling qualities, there is nothing so contagious as pure openness of heart. Nicholas took the infection instantly, and ran over the main points of his little history without reserve...

  58. Two different things by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Actually, the spectrum referred to people's intelligence. Black and white applied to the attitude of the person who assumes it's always smart people who con dumb ones. They're talking about two different things.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  59. If you got conned, you're dumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    End of story. Protect yourself. Critical thinking takes practice.