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Lessig, Zittrain, Barlow To Square Off Against RIAA

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "The RIAA's case in Boston against a 24-year-old grad student, SONY BMG Music v. Tenenbaum, in which Prof. Charles Nesson of Harvard Law School, along with members of his CyberLaw class, are representing the defendant, may shape up as a showdown between the Electronic Frontier and Big Music. The defendant's witness list includes names such as those of Prof. Lawrence Lessig (Author of 'Free Culture'), John Perry Barlow (former songwriter of The Grateful Dead and cofounder of the Electronic Frontier Foundation), Prof. Johan Pouwelse (Scientific Director of P2P-Next), Prof. Jonathan Zittrain (Author of 'The Future of the Internet — And How to Stop It'), Professors Wendy Seltzer, Terry Fisher, and John Palfrey, and others. The RIAA requested, and was granted, an adjournment of the trial, from its previously scheduled December 1st date, to March 30, 2009. (The RIAA lawyers have been asking for adjournments a lot lately, asking for an adjournment in UMG v. Lindor the other day because they were so busy preparing for the Tenenbaum December 1st trial ... I guess when you're running on hot air, you sometimes run out of steam)."

14 of 288 comments (clear)

  1. Before you start cheering them on... by CRCulver · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Before those of us here who love to download copyright films and music at no cost start cheering these men on who challenge the RIAA, let's remember that Lessig doesn't want to abolish copyright, but simply restore short terms. He is not our ally in ensuring we can get whatever media we want whenever we want for no cost.

    1. Re:Before you start cheering them on... by Sun.Jedi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      let's remember that Lessig doesn't want to abolish copyright, but simply restore short terms.

      I didn't think the argument was about 'sensible' copyright as opposed to the current life +75 years copyright abomination of common sense.

      It may not be such a bad thing to have sane copyright laws, reasonable first sale doctrines, and appropriate penalties for consumer violations.

    2. Re:Before you start cheering them on... by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No one in their right mind on Slashdot should want to abolish copyright. As authors of free software under licenses like the GPL, we actually depend on copyright law to keep our creations free.

    3. Re:Before you start cheering them on... by gad_zuki! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Are you kidding? Do you think slashdot is just a bunch of people who want to abolish copyright altogether? No copyright means the gpl is no longer enforceable. Essentially, all things would be public domain. No copyright hurts a lot of things.

      The consensus Im seeing with geeks and non-geeks alike is a sensible copyright limit and sensible damage caps. We should absolutely be cheering these guys on for what they are doing. and unlike your extremist position, they have a chance of winning and changing minds.

      >He is not our ally in ensuring we can get whatever media we want whenever we want for no cost.

      The idea that any sensible person, let alone someone of Lessig's stature, would support something like that is beyond ridiculous. People dont mind paying fair prices and owning what they buy. The fight against the RIAA isnt to abolish copyright, its to protect consumers and to stop corporations from using the courts as a debt collection service.

    4. Re:Before you start cheering them on... by mcgrew · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Indeed. I just finished reading his book Creative Commons (you can download it here). I have to say I agree with just about everything he says in the book.

      I think that if all his reforms were instituted, there wouldn't be an "abolish copyright" movement. If copyrights were truly limited, most of what is downloaded would be free to download anyway.

      The main thrust of the book is that the "permission culture" (as opposed to "free culture") harms creativity itself, something I've also been preaching.

      Have you hear the Kidd Rock song "all summer long?" It starts with a note-for-note and sound for sound copy of Warren Zevon's Werewolves of London and copies much of Skynard's Sweet Home Alabama (the song is about drinking whiskey and smoking dope and having sex while listening to Sweet Home Alabama). The Zevon start is a very creative statement about the fact that the two songs use the same chords and sound a lot alike, something he isn't alone in noticing (a friend of mine who plays in bars does a medely of those two songs and a third I can't think of right now). If he wasn't on the same label as Warren Zevon and Lynard Skynard, there would be hellishly expensive lawsuits. It isn't right that no independant artist could have recorded a similar song.

    5. Re:Before you start cheering them on... by Rary · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It may not be such a bad thing to have sane copyright laws, reasonable first sale doctrines, and appropriate penalties for consumer violations.

      It wouldn't be such a bad thing to have sane copyright laws. In fact, it wasn't when we did.

      The disapproval of copyright law has arisen as a result of the changes (bastardizations?) that have occurred in recent decades. No one complained about copyright when it first came into existence. If we put copyright back to the way it once was, most of the complaining will go away.

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    6. Re:Before you start cheering them on... by EzInKy · · Score: 3, Insightful


      The proper response to a law that you disagree with is not to disobey the law.

      If a law is obeyed there is no reason to change it. It took millions of people drinking illegally for years to get Prohibition rescinded.

      Otherwise we would have people murdering others out of principle.

      That's the fourth box. Content providers are probably safe at least until the people exhaust the soap, ballot, and jury boxes.

      If you disagree with the laws about downloading material, then you should just not listen to the music period.

      Listening to music does not violate even the current draconian copyright laws.

      --
      Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
  2. Not surprising at all by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is anyone surprised that the Righteous Inquisition Army of Autocrats is resquesting more time? It takes a LOT of lawyers to succesfully bully and threaten an entire all-star team of intellectuals college professors well-reknowned in their fields as opposed as a single young student. You don't just steamroll a group like that with a single "cease and decist or we'll ruin you" email.

  3. If they'd stop putting a bad taste in my mouth... by Moof123 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I might stop being spitting mad.

    I hate:
    1. DVD's that lock you out of fast forwarding through the crap (long intros, FBI warnings, previews, etc).
    2. Stupid itunes making it a hassle to give my wife a copy of something WE own legally (or often was free in the first place).
    3. Anti-competitive prices on CD's, and music in general. There have been findings of fact showing anti-competivie behavior, but nothing done to stop it.
    4. CD's that try to install crap on my machine (yes, you Sony).
    5. DVD's that all prevent me from being able to make fair use of their content (using short clips for example) without becoming a criminal.
    6. Retarded EULA's.

        I want to own my own shit again!

        I can't wait until my clothing starts coming with FBI warnings that the design is trademarked, pateneted and that I may only wear the shirt before Labor Day, and before 8 PM on weeknights. You just wait.

  4. Re:If they'd stop putting a bad taste in my mouth. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I had posted that story to a photography forum I'm a member of and someone took the initiative to contact Toyota's legal department. They're backpedaling now on their original claim:

    Response (XXXX) 11/18/2008 04:34 PM
    Thank you for contacting Toyota with your comments and concerns regarding the use of vehicle images. The letter asking the DesktopNexus site to remove all images featuring a Toyota, Scion or Lexus vehicle was the result of mis-communication at Toyota, which we regret.

    Copyright law protects the creative work product of artists, photographers, and other creators. Toyota respects these rights, including those of photographers who work with Toyota. Toyota purchases the rights to the images it posts on its sites, and welcomes public use of those images where we have the rights to give. However, this permission is limited to editorial or personal use, not commercial use, such as advertising any products or services. That's because the photographers - not Toyota - retain the rights to any commercial use, and we cannot give permission to use those images for that purpose. In response the concerns raised by DesktopNexus, Toyota is working with photographers to determine what images may be used for non-commercial purposes, and what we can do to provide broader access.

    We hope you will understand and appreciate the legal constraints we face.

    Toyota also welcomes interested members of the public to use their own images or photography of Toyota's vehicles, and we confirm that we have no objection to this use.

    We appreciate your interest in our products.

    Toyota Customer Experience

    Translation: We found a couple of legitimately infringing photos on your site but rather than give you specifics we decided to be lazy and just order them all down. We figured you'd just roll over and take it, but then you had to spread the word. Now we're facing a ton of bad PR so we're going to limit our claims to just those originally infringing photos.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  5. Re:The first question to ask... by danzona · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is what do these all these "expert" witnesses contribute to the case before the court?

    The plaintiff will try to convince the judge that Tenenbaum downloaded 7 songs and owes them $1 million. The expert witnesses will try to convince the judge that Tenenbaum downloaded 7 songs and owes the plaintiffs nothing (or maybe $6.93).

    In the 1925 Scopes "Monkey Trial," the issue before the trial court wasn't evolution, it was the teaching of evolution in the public schools in violation of Tennessee state law.

    That was the position of the prosecution. The position of the defense was that the law was unconstitutional because it violated the teacher's (Scopes) constitutional rights (the law benefited a particular religious group). But at some point the trial became a media circus full of the celebrities of the age and the defense just made speeches (that as you point out were irrelevant).

  6. Re:Well Shoot by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Music Industry wants to keep its cash cow alive for as long as it can (time is money) even if it requires very expensive lawyers to do it. But sooner or later (later if the Music Industry has its way), the digital music culture will start feeding on public domain music and independently produced and distributed music, then things will change geometrically. The most interesting factor in all of this is talent. How rare is talent? How much talent does it take to develop talent? The future may help answer this.

    In my experience, talent is not rare. Being untalented myself, I am always surprised by it, but there are a great many very gifted people out there who have been underemployed, in the sense that they are not employed to do the thing that best utilizes their special talents. And the reason these very talented and creative people have not been able to make a living at their art has been the 'gatekeepers'... i.e. the MAFIAA. The internet and digitalization have made it possible for the 'gatekeepers' now to be dispensed with. In my view, we are entering a golden age of music, where there will be less 'megastars' but there will be more people making a living at their art, instead of having to take 'day jobs' to sustain themselves. Society will be the better for it.

    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  7. Re:The first question to ask... by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is what do these all these "expert" witnesses contribute to the case before the court?

    The plaintiff will try to convince the judge that Tenenbaum downloaded 7 songs and owes them $1 million. The expert witnesses will try to convince the judge that Tenenbaum downloaded 7 songs and owes the plaintiffs nothing (or maybe $6.93).

    Well spoken, danzona. I hope you get modded up for that succinct observation (and I hope I don't get modded down as 'redundant' for agreeing with you and for not being able to improve on what you said).

    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  8. Re:RIAA and the copyright MAFIA need to end. by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Get a grip. It's attitudes like yours which make everyone who opposes the RIAA look like a criminal jerk.

    Are you sure you meant to say that? That is tantamount to saying that the large majority of people in this country 'look like criminal jerks'. I have never met anyone who ever heard of the RIAA who does not oppose it, except for people who are on its payroll. And I have never met anyone who thinks that 'everyone who opposes the RIAA looks like a criminal jerk'.

    A lot of people think it's the RIAA and their aiders and abettors that are 'criminal jerks', such as these attorneys in St. Louis, who just filed RICO counterclaims pointing out the RIAA's extortion, mail fraud, and wire fraud, and these government officials in North Carolina who have summoned the RIAA's investigators to a "probable cause hearing", and these state troopers in Massachusetts who have ordered them to "cease and desist" from their illegal "investigations".

    So, just between you and me, I think you may have overstated things a bit. If it's you who thinks that everyone who opposes the RIAA looks like a criminal jerk, well, that's you, and you alone, and maybe this guy.

    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful