Persistence Pays Off With Israel's First Windows Refund

As Niv Lilian reports at Ynet News, Haifa (and the Haifa Linux Club)'s Zvi Devir just preferred to run Linux rather than the pre-installed Windows on his newly bought Dell computer, and didn't want to pay for the unwanted Windows system. Now Devir has prevailed, after a fight in Israeli small-claims court, to become the first Israeli to obtain a Windows refund (also in Hebrew), winning the $137 that Windows added to the cost of his machine and escaping the nondisclosure agreement that Dell had wanted him to abide by as a condition. Perhaps others will follow his lead. Update: 12/03 23:02 GMT by T : Zvi Devir wrote with an update: "BTW, the settlement was out of court, before any court sessions took place."

Comments

The Gates Are Now Open

[toodeepforme]

Oh god, I am seriously fearing the flood that is to come. This will set a precedent(if only a small one), that could change the way computers are sold, as well as if windows will be considered "standard" software for much longer.

Re:The Gates Are Now Open

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are you fearing that? Why should windows be considered "standard" software? Not all of us want to run windows on our computers so why should we be required to pay for a windows license as part of the cost of a new computer? Particularly an OEM license that we can't legally use on any other hardware?

If the cost of a windows license bundled with a new computer is $150 then why not sell machines at the normal price and allow the user to choose to get a machine with windows pre-installed, adding $150 to the cost?

Re:The Gates Are Now Open

[jhantin]

Because the license costs a high volume OEM about $60 and they bundle -$70 worth of free trial crapware that only runs under Windows, so the Windows license comes at no cost to you and the OEM makes an extra $10 in the bargain. That's why a Linux box and a Windows box price out the same in practice.

Read the article.

[CannonballHead]

This doesn't have to do with Windows as much as it has to do with Dell.

Basically, Dell said (in the EULA) that they would refund money if you don't agree to the terms. So that's what the guy did.

If anything, this just shows how few people read license agreements than anything else. And shows that, once again, 'customer support' still stinks :)

Not even implied

[jDeepbeep]

Nowhere in this summary does it say he is a Jew. Just pointing out the obvious. There is a difference between the terms 'Israeli' and 'Jew'

Re:Not even implied

[idontgno]

Well true, but all humans are cheap and like to avoid paying for anything anyway.

There, corrected that for you.

Re:Not even implied

[Locke2005]

With a name like "Zvi Devir" and a home in Haifa, I think there's a good chance he's not Catholic! That being said, he should be called an Israeli, not a Jew.

Re:Not even implied

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure there is no label on this that says "Jew", however, based on contextual evidence can conclude that the person responsible for this likely practices Judaism.

Since you want to talk statistics, 37% of Israelis are atheist or agnostic. That suggests to me that they don't "practice" Judaism at least in a religious, worship the supernatural way, although many may identify culturally/ethnically with Judaism and still maintain their traditionally Jewish lifestyles, ethical values, and heritage.

Re:Not even implied

[K. S. Kyosuke]

He might be a Jew by birth, but Israel is a suprisingly secular state, compared to what an uninformed person might think (considering the fact that it was the religion that held the Jewish population together in the past millenia). And a substantial percentage of citizens of Israel do not practice Judaism the way their ancestors did. Perhaps this has something to do with the views of the founders of their state?

Re:Not even implied

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I'd say a 24% chance of being wrong is a pretty large difference.

Re:Not even implied

[blind biker]

You are absolutely right. However, may I note that Zvi is a very traditional Jewish male name. It means "deer".

Isn't that a Macintosh?

[argent]

The laptop in the stock photo for the article sure looks like didn't come with Windows in the first place.

Re:Isn't that a Macintosh?

[slakdrgn]

What's even more funny is the guy in that picture looks a lot like Wil Wheaton.

Re:blablabla

[Fuzzzy]

ALL the anonymous cowards are so dumb.

Re:And parent skimped on glasses

[K. S. Kyosuke]

My name sounds Jewish enough as well, and in spite of that, it is not enough for me to be a Jew. If his mother was not a Jew and he was not raised as one, which is possible, he is not considered a Jew, at least not from the traditional Judaistic point of view. Of course, there were people with different opinions as to what makes a person a Jew, but fortunately, they lost (not only) the argument. :-)

Good on him, and boo to Dell

[blind biker]

...for trying to wiggle out of their contractual agreement. Now, I'm not sure a click-through EULA is in fact a contract, but then that's DELLs to decide. Either it is or it isn't.

Re:What about the manufacturers?

[cbiltcliffe]

Depends what country you're in, probably.
Canada and the US have laws against bundling - requiring the purchase of one product to purchase another product.

So the manufacturer can't require you to buy Windows if you buy the computer hardware.

How it is in other countries, I have no idea.

This Is Wonderful But . . .

[LuYu]

I am of course overjoyed at the fact that there is someone who managed not to be forced to pay for Windows, but I still have to ask this question: Did Dell take the loss or did MS?

Aside from saving money, refusing to grant an undesirable vendor money is another reason to refuse a purchase. If Dell still paid MS, then MS is still insulated from market forces. How can customers choose against MS if MS gets paid even when those customers do not purchase MS software?

I hope the next time this happens, Dell will supply a written document certifying that it has refused payment to MS for the copy in question.