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Brain Electrodes That Screw On the Skin
An anonymous reader writes "New Scientist says that attaching electrodes to the skin for monitoring brain activity (for example when 'installing brain implants that can allow disabled people to control machines using their mind') is tricky, especially on a hairy scalp, so the new solution from the University of Pittsbugh is an electrode that screws into the skin: its 'teeth dig into the upper layer of skin and become fixed in place, maintaining good electrical contact.' They say that the thing 'should be pain-free.' (Note: it does not go through the skull!)"
I am not sure about anyone else here, but the last time I screwed something into my skin, it wasn't "pain-free". I can't even think of a way that could be pulled off - let alone one practical.
Great Intellect...
Captain Obvious flies in and reminds everyone: Anything that penetrates the skin dramatically increases the risk of infection, and early signs of a skin infection would be covered by hair on the scalps. Up, up and awaaaaaay...
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A humane way to attach laser beams to my frikken' sharks
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I have seen curved needle systems before. Back in the 80's.
This is an old procedure applied to a new system. Hardly innovative.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
How many flies does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Two, but how do you get them in there?
After that, I wasn't sure I wanted to read TFA about something "screw[ing] on my skin". Ick.
Not sure I'd want to get close to anything electrical or statically charged, or my leg might suddenly kick or anything else that might pop up unannounced.
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It rubs the lotion on it's skin...
And then screws itself?
I worked for an investigator at the Uni many moons ago who was too damn cheap to use disposable gel electrodes, or even to use conductive gel or paste -- he insisted on using 30 gauge needle electrodes instead. Think acupuncture needles with wires connected to them.
Scared off many an experimental "subject" -- mostly Intro to Psych students who were required to "volunteer" for a certain number of hours of experiments to pass the class. That makes them cheaper than lab rats -- you have to feed the rats and clean their cages. Intro to Psych students are supposed to feed and clean themselves. Well, usually feed...
So should sex. But I always end up crying.
I mean why would anybody want electrodes that can engage in intercourse, let alone there?
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
If they can use this for EEGs that would certainly make life a whole lot less miserable for those of use who have small kids with idiopathic epilepsies where you do a lot of 24 hour EEG sessions. (Yes, it's a hassle to deal with a 18 month old who likes to be everywhere and hates the electrodes that are stuck to his head with some disgusting white paste.)
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Fetal scalp electrodes are used for internal (in the uterus) monitoring of a fetus during labor. They are inserted through the cervix and short electrodes "screw" gently into the scalp of the fetus. The concept is fairly old, I think.
I'm like, damn, those are some frisky electrodes!
who works on developing new electrodes there. They use monkeys for their experiments, and are working on all kinds of cool stuff- the ultimate goal is rejection-free permanent electrodes for humans, I think I remember him saying.
Wait... did anyone else see the picture in the article??? Apparently the electrodes actually screw in to a missing part of the internet.
Just use one of these things on the arm, strap an rs232 adapter onto it, and use it for nerve-computer communication.
Ask me about repetitive DNA
It seems it may be like burdock seeds. These -are- pain-free, and they can attach even to skin. The tips of the spikes surrounding the burdock seeds end with tiny hooks with sharp tips. The tips easily pierce into skin, but due to the bend don't go any deeper than 0.2mm inside the skin, meaning they never get near neurons or blood vessels, never cause bleeding or pain, while retaining a good grip.
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If they're going to report science they should have people capable of evaluating the present scientific, or the equivalent technical uses, rather than simply rewriting press releases and thinly veiled advertising. I've used pretty much every available kind of electrode in both settings.
Screw in electrodes were old when I managed the EEG lab at Virginia Tech and had to decide what to buy and use, and to justify those decisions. They weren't used then, and aren't like to now, because they're not more convenient or accurate, and certainly less comfortable than other alternatives.
The oldest versions are water soluble glue-on. Most people who've had EEGs done at hospitals are familiar with picking that sticky stuff out of their hair. They needn't have done that, since washing your hair gets it out.
Newer versions include elastic caps, very much like swimming caps with the electrodes built in. Conduction is based on conductive gel without needing the glue. Newer still is the electrodes sewn together with elastic threads. All the electrodes go on at once, up to 256 of them. The conductive gel gets injected into the center of the electrodes, and has no problem with hair. Conduction and impedance still need to be checked and balanced between electrodes and within the impedance range of the amps.
Even newer are high impedance electrodes (and impedance matching amps) that require no conduction gel. The electrodes are embedded in small cups containing sponge, and the whole thing gets dipped in salt water prior to application.
The newest, most accurate and convenient EEG electrodes all go on at once using the elastic thread net attachment. They have the preamplifiers built into the electrode, so impedance matching (ie. accuracy) is not an issue.
I've used all of them, and have a personal record of 256 channels of accurate, impedance artifact free EEG, being recorded in less than 8 minutes from the time the person sat in the chair.
I've used screw-pin electrodes as well as straight-needle electrodes for intraoperative electrophysiology (but not EEG, but only because the other options were available and better). These are suitable when the person is under anesthesia. However, skin is elastic and can be torn. Using it as the basis for electrode attachment will result in some of them being torn off, particularly when the person moves. Some of the other methods result in the electrodes being so displaced, but at least they don't break the epidermis and leave a path for infection. Where the skin is thinnest -- the scalp -- the epidermis/dermis thickness is the least, making infection more likely. If initial electrode placement is not optimal, worst present case is having to dissolve the glue and reset the electrode. All other cases are simply done by moving it. If the electrodes in TFA are misplaced, you leave an infection prone hole when you remove it and use a new electrode in the correct spot. Screw- and straight-needle electrodes are used in surgery because they person is adequately cleansed and the ER is fairly free of infective agents.
When the scalp is injured and recording is required ASAP (by EMT or ER personnel), the whole head caps/nets place the electrodes properly, as they place them according to predetermined sites regardless of condition and displacement of the scalp and will help hold each other and the scalp in place. Placing individual electrodes will require in this instance the same sort of head measurement and individual placement based on the "10-20" system. This is very slow. If the skin shifts due to injury, there goes the electrode placement. If the skin is loose, there goes the electrode. When the procedure is one of deep electrode implantation, a net of electrodes will still be a far better choice, and the few electrodes that must be moved for the implant site are easily shifted out of the way.
Note that an apparent benefit to these would be in an EMT/ER situation when only a few electrodes are required. The caps/nets still go on faster, and are faster s
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
There is a relatively new piercing technique which might be better than these electrodes since it's a bit more permanent; transdermal (or microdermal) implants. Basically, the technique is the same as pocketing, but some implants feature either "hooks" or have a small mesh in the base which causes the body to heal through it, creating a more permanent bond. This would likely be better for someone with disabilities who needs these since the transdermal implants are extremely unlikely to fall off, which would make a disabled person's connecting the equipment a bit easier.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transdermal_implant
http://wiki.bmezine.com/index.php/Transdermal_implant
http://wiki.bmezine.com/index.php/Microdermal
http://www.holeyskin.com/microdermal.htm
http://www.alternativelook.net/microdermal-implants/
I briefly considered getting microdermals at my temples, but being a business owner, etc. those are just a little too permanent, and I probably have too many piercings already anyhow. heh.
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Or , something along those lines... It was a story about people who jacked in and starved to death rather than come back out (IIRC)
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Screw directly to forehead.