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Android Susceptible To Apps That Turn On Roaming
fermion writes "If seems that Google's Android and T-Mobile have not learned from the bad experience and wrath Apple incurred with roaming charges on the iPhone. Applications can switch to roaming and data operation without the user's knowledge. Also, according to The Register, there is no way to switch off roaming. Given the backlash that Apple experienced over international roaming charges, one would think that T-Mobile would have built a phone to prevent such unexpected charges." From the wording of the article, the inability to turn off roaming seems to be on a per-application basis; users can evidently disable it globally.
When traveling, only do so in a faraday cage.
Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
What reasonable explanation can exist for charging me an extra 50 cents per minute, just because I made a call from Maryland instead of Pennsylvania? I can't think of any. Cingular used to do that to me, but now I use Virgin Mobile which did away with that nonsense (I pay a flat 18 cents anywhere in the U.S.). That's how all cellphones should operate.
FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
Sounds like BS to me..
1) go here: http://tmobile.modeaondemand.com/htc/g1/
2) click Simulation
3) Click the arrow icon on the screen to the right
4) click market
5) select any app
6) click install
Look at this screen. It tells you exactly what the app does.
The problem is that the Android OS doesn't strictly enforce its global "Disable Data Roaming" option. Apps are supposed to respect this setting but some do not, thus a user who thinks it is disabled can still end up with $thousands in international data fees.
Just checked my G1, there's a setting to enable/disable data roaming. Maybe they're referring to Apps that can toggle that setting?
If applications were restricted from using the full functionality of the phone, then people would complain about that.
Either you trust your applications, or you don't. If you don't trust them, you run them in a sandbox. If you trust them, and a third-party application does something you don't like, blame the application.
Well, wasn't the big draw of Android supposed to be that the big mean ol' bad Apple man couldn't tell your apps what they could or couldn't do? Complete freedom from turtlenecked oppression?
This looks like a platform flaw to me.
Didn't we learn anything from the refusal of the big telecoms to give their subscribers the option to opt-out of incoming spam text messages? These guys make their huge profits by nickel and diming us into oblivion, and roaming charges are part of the big picture.
Why do people buy a mutlti-hundred dollar phone capable of running pretty much the same apps as a home computer and not get a Nationwide plan with unlimitted data. Don't get me wrong, those plans are expensive and not everyone needs them... but... for those that don't just get a plain old cellphone!
I think atm the only solution is changing the APN, so the G1 can't log on to the 2G/3G Data network.
this is the kind of thing that might kill the platform. Get a couple well publicized incidents where customers have thousands of dollars charged due to downloading some "app" and the lack of controls/oversight on their application store will become glaringly obvious.
Perhaps some "mission critical" devices should NOT be open source? (for your average Joe consumer anyway).
I find it annoying that people get so confused about where their phones come from. The phone's software was created by Google and a company they acquired. The hardware was made by HTC. T-Mobile slapped their logo on it and probably made very small modifications to the software. If T-Mobile "built" this phone, then we have just radically redefined the meaning of "to build".
People need to stop saying "the T-Mobile phone", "the new Verizon phone", etc. None of these phones are actually made by the carriers. Let's not legitimize their anti-consumer-freedom lock-in scheme by giving them too much credit.
To my knowledge, this is international roaming, folks. When this story first broke approximately a week ago, I called T-Mobile to ensure that all phone and data roaming in the US was covered and they said it was.
However, this might be just for my plan (MyFaves 600 and unlimited G1 data).
Colin Dean Go a year without DRM
T-mobile is very, very evil company, actually in general all of T-com is super evil. In my country they like to put "T" stuff in software of the phone when you buy it from them. I remember few years ago they used to lock one of soft key buttons on the phone to their mobile web page.. And don't get me started about T-com's land line monopoly we have here... As i said evil.
It would be possible to create a 3rd party app that detects if the phone is roaming and switches the phone to airplane mode (I.E. disabling all radio transmissions). Not quite desirable because this means that you can't use it to make or receive calls when roaming (without manual override), but it could be a lot better than the alternative.
Software needs to come with a warranty as to suitability for purpose. Stuff like this that does considerable economic harm to the end user when they aren't doing anything wrong needs to be slammed right back at the developers and distributors economically until they cover the damages and fix what is broken or they can admit reality they are in over their head and go do something else for a living or just code games that aren't designed to be networked on the internet/telco system. That EULA nonsense that says "nothing is our fault" is beyond BS at this time. 40-50 years ago maybe software needed a little time to get up to speed to be classed and treated as normal consumer products, but not today, they should be treated like any other consumer product. They want the profits, they should be able to have a warranty.
If brings more money that any lawsuit could cost them, doesn't it?
:: [Consumer] -> Money
company
company consumer:consumers =
let screw consumer contract =
if ((cost (possibleLawsuit (terms defaultContract)) consumer) > (projectedProfit contract consumer))
then (profit (makeContract defaultContract consumer))
else (screw consumer (tryToFix defaultContract))
(screw consumer defaultContract) + (company consumers)
company [] = bailout
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
No roaming.
Two simple words that customers from AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, and the rest of you village idiots will never hear. We T-Mobile customers have been hearing them for over a decade now. My Mom had a cell phone with Powertel (one of those old Nokia 9000 communicators) and we have been T-Mobile customers for all 14 years since. How much have we ever paid for roaming? I'll give you a hint: one whole number greater than -1. We have never, ever paid a single red cent for roaming or long distance, because T-Mobile has never, ever charged for it.
So unless you're one of those people on AT&T trying to use a G1, this article is irrelevant simply because T-Mobile HAS NO ROAMING. When roaming all over the entire planet is free, who cares how much you do it?
I'm sorry. I meant:
It brings them more money than any lawsuit could cost them, doesn't it?
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
company :: [Consumer] -> Money
company consumer:consumers =
let screw consumer contract =
if ((cost (possibleLawsuit (terms contract)) consumer) > (projectedProfit contract consumer))
then (profit (makeContract contract consumer))
else (screw consumer (tryToFix contract))
(screw consumer defaultContract) + (company consumers)
company [] = bailout
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
As pointed out repeatedly, "Because they can" is exactly true. There is no incentive to give the customer help, information, or respect. All they want is the cash out of your pocket. Forget the "Jobs will be lost" crap. They have us addicted, and will not give that leverage away until we just plain stop buying their service. As for me, I have never paid for a personal cell phone service, and never will. I get along very fine thank you. A lot of people need mobile service, I understand this. So, when I say "I refused to be laughed at during the next board meeting" please don't take it personal.
I'm Android G1 owner, and can show that roaming can be switched off with single check-box.
Forced? Regulated? Let them do this, stop them doing that? Fuck you and all the other stinking communist hippies.
Oh.. yyyeah. We're real sorry about that "mistake", guys. Never meant to make a shitload of money through roaming charges. It's of the utmost importance that we prevent our customers' money from falling into our hands, and we'll do anything necessary to prevent it.
Love always,
T-Mobile
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Truly free capitalism degenerates pretty quickly into monopolies and cartels (which are illegal for a reason).
Not always, but even when so you can still make exploitation of monopoly status illegal (remember, it's not illegal to be wildly successful - only to EXPLOIT that position for unfair gain) while leaving the market otherwise open and unregulated.
Instead what you have with lots of regulation is the muct worse case where you have a cartel that cannot be expelled from the market by a better competitor - because over time regulations are worked to favor the existing players in the market. That's why you see so much ossification around things like car companies, electronics makers, etc. etc. - just the cost of complying with regulations is a wide moat to cross for a small company.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You are correct. Sadly this is a design flaw that was probably understood as a feature by Google with hope it would force all network to come up with unlimited data plan.
More precisely you have absolutely no control on which applications does what on the network once they are installed. Authorization to use the network (any network type, wifi, 3g, edge etc.) is given at installation time and is unrevocable.
This is a terrible mistake. By definition the environment of a mobile phone will change, people will travel, some carrier do not have unlimited data plan. It's obvious that at some point someone will connect a G1 to another network than t-mobile and pay for that mistake.
When I travel, sometime for extended period of time, I use local SIM cards to avoid paying roaming fees to my operator (not t-mobile). I had to turn off 3g connections by deleting all APN entries to make sure that no applications would use those network.
There is Another niceness which this time is T-Mobile US fault and not google's that didn't get any exposure. The MyFaves application that is hidden deep inside the contact manager needs to update it's status by automatically sending SMS to T-Mobile. When the phone is used on another network than T-Mobile the application bugs and starts sending SMS every few minutes potentially costing a fortune to the owner. There is no way to remove it for the retards at T-Mo decided the best way to implements the feature was to butcher the default contact provider (the "library" that every other application uses to read the contact list) of the android codebase instead of creating a standalone application.
Some smart people at xda-developer (http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=448) have found a way around it for the lucky few who have one of the original firmware that can be rooted and upgraded with a custom image.
For other people even if they have received their unlock code from T-Mobile, if they have tried to put another SIM they might end up with a very ugly bill at the end of the month.
I have no idea how this Android works, but all you need is a confirmation box before your applications starts to call, SMS, browse the net ...
And maybe an internal trust application system, where you can customize what is allowed. Totally inaccessible to [u][b]all[/b][/u] the application or we end up with another Windows firewall who can be opened by any kid script.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
From what I can tell, this is a case of people not really knowing what they're talking about. There is no documented way to turn on this setting from in an application. And just because an app has permission to use the internet does not say it can change this roaming setting.
Some reference: http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/ee7bc6309c865672/77003d32c992752c/
ifconfig cel0 down
wtf
I got a T-Mobile flex plan. You always pay the same amount every month. A separate flex account is provided for roaming and other charges. You refill your flex account over the phone or online as needed. If your flex account runs dry your roaming is disabled and you have to add money -- but at least there aren't any surprise bills.
Anyone that gets billed for "thousands of dollars" by T-mobile is a fucking idiot. They have an online near-real-time account statement that shows all your calls and fees. If you're too goddamn lazy to check your account once in awhile to see if you are getting financially sodomized, then you deserve exactly what you get.
If your online statement starts showing unusual activity or fees, SHUT THE DAMNED PHONE OFF until you can figure out what the problem is!
I'm also getting pretty sick of all the cheap fucks around here whining about per-message SMS fees. THERE ARE NO FEES if you just buy the damned unlimited messaging plan for about ten bucks a month. Anyone that gets an SMS bill for hundreds of dollars is too stupid to live.
Nothing worthwhile ever happens before noon
I agree that regulations can sometimes lead to ossification and restrict competition, but in the case of the US, and the cell phone market in particular, regulations are simply not in place to restrict predatory practices like overpricing of roaming calls. Perhaps they should be?
Why though? There's no point when it used to be the case that you'd have roaming calls traveling around the U.S. - but that's not true today. All of the roaming under discussion is international roaming, which we can't help much via regulation... inherently the cure has to come from companies realizing that some things work better with coopetition, just as they have already in the U.S.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley