Windows Cheap Enough For $2B Aussie Laptop Deal

An anonymous reader writes "Windows-based netbooks aren't too expensive to be ruled out of the Aussie government's billion dollar promise to give a laptop to every school-aged child, according to several education departments. The admission follows an earlier report that open source machines based on Ubuntu or Mandriva are the only option to deliver up to four million computers to students for under $2 billion. Microsoft itself claimed it will keep costs per unit down by hosting a lot of the educational software in the cloud rather than on the netbook devices."

Comments

Too bad there won't be a useful

[Anonymous Coward]

internet connection for each of those school children.

Re:Too bad there won't be a useful

[lysergic.acid]

well, since they're netbooks, not desktops, you'd need ubiquitous wireless access in order to match the functionality that would be provided with Ubuntu + OpenOffice. and considering that Australia's one of the few developed countries behind the U.S. in internet infrastructure, that seems very unlikely.

to get the full benefits of the hardware, you pretty much have to go with FOSS or spend a heck of a lot more money.

Re:Too bad there won't be a useful

[unit8765]

No useful internet because of internet filtering in Australia.

Re:Too bad there won't be a useful

[XDirtypunkX]

While Australia's wired access in rural areas is lacking, we have pretty much ubiquitous access to fast mobile (wireless) broadband. In fact, you can get 7.2mbit access pretty much everywhere in the country.

That's soon going to be 21mbit, the first large scale roll-out in the world of that particular mobile technology.

$500 a "netbook"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Must be some pretty damn good machines to pay $500 a unit on an order of 4 million units.

Re:$500 a "netbook"?

[Facetious]

No joke. I just picked up three Acer Aspire One netbooks (Linux edition) for $250 apiece at Newegg.

Re:$500 a "netbook"?

[Akzo]

Things outide the US are generally more expensive, not including shipping/customs costs and currency differences.

Re:$500 a "netbook"?

[Sabriel]

Note that the article is about Australia; one Aussie dollar currently equals 66 US cents and after the various middlemen get their markup the value of a computer in AUD is often double its USD value.

(funny how every time the AUD approaches the USD, something happens to the stock market to bring it back down :p)

Re:$500 a "netbook"?

[strider44]

This is in Australian dollars (approx. $330 USD) and includes a maintenance contract.

Re:$500 a "netbook"?

[Chandon Seldon]

Things outide the US are generally more expensive, not including shipping/customs costs and currency differences.

For millions of units of something made in Taiwan, it shouldn't be terribly difficult to get a reasonable price on it in Australia. At that volume, you can rent your own ship. If you're the Australian government, you shouldn't be paying customs. Etc.

Re:$500 a "netbook"?

[Eskarel]

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

Yes, the stuff is made in Taiwan or somewhere else in South East Asia, and yes, that's closer to Australia, than it is to most of the US, but we still pay more for everything.

It's just the way things are. Just about everything is more expensive here.

Re:$500 a "netbook"?

[Anonymous Coward]

For a start, the majority of the cost on computers is luxury tax. Yes, the tax man in Australia still considers computers to be a "luxury".

I'm an accountant and this is wrong. There is no luxury tax on computers. It is certainly not the majority of cost on computers.

Secondly, if the education department was to opt not to pay the luxury tax on these laptops then the revenue department would claim a shortfall.

There is no luxury tax. I'll let you work out if it's a taxable supply for GST purposes. Suggest reading the GST Act.

Oh, and for added hilarity, did you know that you have to pay taxes on unemployment benefits received from the government? Typically you don't.. because benefits are so low that it puts you under the tax free threshold.. but if you're unemployed for 6 months and employed for the remaining 6 months of a financial year, your combined incoming (benefits+salary) is taxed.. and you'll pay sales tax either way, and import taxes and luxury tax.

The tax legislation takes the view that it is income. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Double, triple, quadruple taxes.. the ATO has no shame.

You are putting the blame in the wrong spot. The Australian Tax Office's prime responsibility is for the administration of the tax system. They make some rulings, and the courts decide definitively on edge cases but ultimately the tax legislation has been determined by parliament and is contained in the various tax acts.

The Pusher

[Forrest Kyle]

Drugs are always affordable when the dealer is trying to get you hooked.

Re:The Pusher

[ozmanjusri]

if Windows is a drug , I say it's PCP

Nah, it'd have to be nicotine.

It's heavily marketed, addictive and once you're hooked, you have to keep spending and spending to get more of the same, though there's been no buzz for decades.

Educational applications in the cloud

[Bruce Perens]

Educational applications on a web server are nothing new. It's funny, though, that Windows would need them. I have one of these small-cheap-light laptops that cost $350 and is intended for use with Windows "only for web browsing and email". I put Debian on it. There's only one thing I have found that it can't do: build the Linux kernel quickly. It's kind of slow at that, but it works. OpenOffice is no problem, etc.

But with a cloud, you can tie all of those kids into a network that Microsoft will be able to monetize, propogandize, etc.

Bruce

Re:Educational applications in the cloud

[Rene S. Hollan]

Duh.

Besides, "code you have on the box beats code that might be available".

What's sad here isn't that Mr. Perens comment is, well, common sense, but rather that so many don't see it as so obvious.

Re:Educational applications in the cloud

[TheRaven64]

You miss the point of this statement:

Microsoft itself claimed it will keep costs per unit down by hosting a lot of the educational software in the cloud rather than on the netbook devices."

It will keep the costs for the hardware down by hosting the applications elsewhere. Or, to put it another way, they will host education apps online for free (now) so that the required hardware specs are lower, allowing more of the total to be spent on (Microsoft) software used to access the (.NET, Windows-only) server side software (which may not remain free for long after the initial investment on Windows laptops has been made and you are locked in).

Re:Educational applications in the cloud

[Bruce Perens]

That's what "monetize" meant :-)

I don't think they're reducing the cost of the hardware, though. $350 USD pays for an Acer Aspire One with 1G RAM and 160G disk at retail. And you can probably get a much better price in a bulk purchase. I think they are budgeting AU $500 per unit. That leaves a lot of money for Microsoft even in the initial purchase.

What a surprise

[QuantumG]

"We're thinking of using Linux" == "Hey Microsoft, we want a discount!"

Re:What a surprise

[grege1]

I agree absolutely, and Microsoft will have to cave in because the thought of every school kid in the country using Linux and OpenOffice would give them nightmares. I would like to see the Education departments really use Linux laptops, but they do not have the guts to carry it through.

Re:What a surprise

[Yfrwlf]

If it came down to it, M$ would give it to them for free rather than see Linux being used of course. That's why it's up to intelligent employees to realize what the long term costs are, and what they are doing by "selling" the Windows platform to students, so free for them would still be an excellent deal for Microsoft in numerous ways.

Re:What a surprise

[Yfrwlf]

Certainly, and that's why education is such a huge target for these corporations, they want teachers teaching students to use the most expensive pieces of software in the industry, which IMO should piss the parents and students off to no end. "Mom, you need to buy me Adobe Creative Suite 3, I need it for class, it's only $500." and "I just got hired on, and you aren't using Windows Vista yet? Your company should upgrade, I was trained on Vista." :P

Many average computer users haven't even heard of Linux even though they use it every day whether they know it or not. That is slowly changing, but M$ is sure doing everything they can to slow its spread. Thus, every little bit done to spread knowledge of it and improve it as a platform, helps.

Not really the same.

[Anonymous Coward]

This seems like apples and oranges... With Ubuntu (for example) they're storing their files locally, with Windows they're going to be stored on Microsoft's servers somewhere, it's not really a comparable solution.

Save money

[lordharsha]

Wouldn't it be more efficient to ditch Windows and use the extra money to give laptops to more children?

Re:Save money

[insane_machine]

Two Laptops Per Child Act (TLPC)

Re:Save money

[Yfrwlf]

Even if Windows was given to them for free, which it very well could be, Microsoft would still get a lot from it and the school district, parents, and students would still lose in various ways.

Re:Save money

[Elektroschock]

But negative prices are still possible! Microsoft should offer the netbooks with Windows away for free to schools. Otherwise the schools pay the lock-in costs and do product training and platform marketing for the monopolist for free. It is like paying for a galley seat and workout.

The Two Billion Dollar Laptop

[atomicthumbs]

Doubt that this project will catch on.

Teachers were probably the reason.

[Zombie Ryushu]

Of course.

I have a feeling that is what the case will be. The teachers who have Windows desktops in their classrooms took one look at Linux and went "No. You give us Windows or the boxes will wind up collecting dust in the back of the classroom." And that was probably was what alot of the Independent Education software vendors said too. "We have thousands of man hours and workers tied up in this Windows only education software. We will not port our software to Linux. Put Windows on your boxes or we will take our business elsewhere."

Re:Teachers were probably the reason.

[QuantumG]

Yeah, because ISVs often dictate the terms for government contracts.

Re:Teachers were probably the reason.

[jbolden]

QuantumG is correct also look at the quantities. 4m. 4m units you get to set terms to software vendors.

Re:Teachers were probably the reason.

[UncleTogie]

What the Departments and consultants would be saying is...

So counter those arguments as thus:

1. The teachers that get sent off for Windows "training" come back nearly as clueless as to usage to make it a laugh at best. Just pick your apps, train a few staff, and have them take it from there. You tell the teachers what to click, and they do so. This is NO different than Windows or OSX. Once those boxes are set up and networked, there is VERY little a teacher needs to do that'd require anything above "user" level.

2. Key phrase here is "teachers pulled from the classroom". If they're already teaching, then they've already been trained on whichever system they're using that year. It isn't like they're going to be installing RAID arrays and other hardware. That's usually saved for the hardware vendor. Once again, this is showing someone how to show someone what to click. No worries.

Here it doesn't matter if Windows or Ubuntu get picked as they both serve the purpose well.

Sure, were it not for the MS plan to host this in "the cloud"... {Oooo, do I hate that 2-word phrase. It's a network, ya doofs. Fraggin' buzzword bingo. {/soapbox}}

Internet access isn't cheap in Australia. Unless they're considering local hosting, MS's apps will eat bandwidth for no reason other than to run a word processor. Multiply that by just a few hundred students, and it starts looking ugly for whomever's paying the ISP. Multiply this by the number of students in Australia, and it's downright nasty.

I could care less which OS they use, as long as they're using SOME sense about it.

What a great alternative

[meist3r]

Owning a netbook that merely runs a basic version of an operating sytem that the company itself wants to get rid off and as the only reason to chose over a full-scale FOSS option I get an MS version of Google Apps? No thanks, take the Linux computers and spend whatever you're saving on some Tux-savvy teachers.

Cloud == Cheaper??

[Lord Byron II]

I don't think so. It's just a nice way to guarantee that the government will have to buy and maintain some MS servers.

Computer != Education

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, it's a tool, but wouldn't that $2 billion be better spent on smaller class sizes, better teachers, etc.?

Summary incorrect

[kaos07]

to give a laptop to every school-aged child

No, the policy is to give upper high school children in years 9-12 a laptop not "every school-aged child".

Re:Pay now or pay later... you still pay the MS pi

[Yfrwlf]

It's simple, Linux = free. Windows = cost. They want money, they're a business, that's why they push their product. Even if they sold it to them for free, M$ would still benefit from them using it.

So, I don't need to see a cost analysis, and I definitely don't need to see one from M$ to try to justify their existence to me. Money should go into FOSS through paid development, bounties, and support. That should be what all institutions are geared towards, but instead they are stuck in the past.

"Here's a government contract to make the FOSS equivalent of Reader Rabbit for students for our schools. We are now taking bids."

That's the kind of stuff everyone should be seeing from their governments. The amount of money that every single school district spends on individual purchases for close source software, oftentimes it being the same software over and over and over again for all the licenses, would be enough money to pay developers to program every single piece of open source software schools would ever need all over the entire world a hundred times over, and what's more it would be a long-term investment instead of a flash in the pan. When governments wake up to this, the world will be a better place, but they won't wake up until citizens start waking them.

P.S., of course you can apply it to all other branches of governments, to businesses, and everyone else. The amount of money thrown away for temporary software orgasms is astronomical. More cooperation is needed for the new age of software development.