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British Royal Navy Submarines Now Run Windows

meist3r writes "On his Government blog, Microsoft's Ian McKenzie announced today that the Royal Navy was ahead of schedule for switching their nuclear submarines to a customized Microsoft Windows solution dubbed 'Submarine Command System Next Generation (SMCS NG)' which apparently consists of Windows 2000 network servers and XP workstations. In the article, it is claimed that this decision will save UK taxpayers £22m over the next ten years. The installation of the new system apparently took just 18 days on the HMS Vigilant. According to the BAE Systems press release from 2005, the overall cost of the rollout was £24.5m for all eleven nuclear submarines of the Vanguard, Trafalgar and Swiftsure classes. Talk about staying with the sinking ship."

38 of 725 comments (clear)

  1. BSOD by sleeponthemic · · Score: 5, Funny

    Blue Submarine of Death

    --
    I record my sleeptalking
    1. Re:BSOD by s1lverl0rd · · Score: 5, Funny

      Having Bliss as a wallpaper below sea level would irritate me a lot.

    2. Re:BSOD by TheLink · · Score: 5, Funny

      How about this instead? http://www.flickr.com/photos/rowandw/2276721446/

      Seems more appropriate given the topic.

      --
    3. Re:BSOD by boazarad · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And these would be backdoors would be accessed... how? ...underwater wifi?

    4. Re:BSOD by Hanners1979 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Considering it's a customised Windows-based solution, I would hope that they've at least made it the Yellow Submarine of Death.

    5. Re:BSOD by leomekenkamp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      1. GP does not sound psychotic at all
      2. I see nothing irrational or excessive at all. The US has deliberately sent the Lucetania into a battle zone in order to enter WWI, disregarded intelligence that could have prevented Pearl Harbor, entered a virtual battle in Tonkin to enter Vietnam, and made up stories on WMD to enter Iraq. In that light an NSA backdoor does not seem more preposterous to me. And there have been news items on this, even from Bruce Schneier.

      I think you owe GP an apology for your incorrect accusation.

      --
      Wenn ist das Nunstueck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.
    6. Re:BSOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      On my work PC (I don't work in I.T at the moment) the Sysinternal screensaver BSOD was installed as part of the build. Don't ask me why.

      I set it as my default screensaver and thought it was a bit of fun, that is until when I was away on a business trip (trying to RDesktop in) and there was no response from my PC.

      One of the I.T helpdesk muppets had noticed the BSOD on my monitor, not realised it was a screensaver and took my PC away and reimaged it.

      I wasn't happy!

    7. Re:BSOD by ptelligence · · Score: 5, Funny

      I believe the proper term is "WarDiving"

  2. How deep? by bryan1945 · · Score: 5, Funny

    The last time I drove my car into a lake the windows didn't last past 15 feet. Of course my car is American, and those Brits have that funky metric system, so who knows?

    (Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week)

    --
    Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
    1. Re:How deep? by Mark+Hood · · Score: 5, Funny

      Actually we call it 'Imperial' units.

      Damn colonials are getting uppity again, Ponsenby...

      Mark

      --
      Liked this comment? Why not buy me something nice
    2. Re:How deep? by CmdrGravy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's actually a really irritating system we have here in the UK, in school during the 80's we were taught soley in the metric system so I still have no instinctive understanding of what a farenheight, a gallon, a league or a fathom actually are and yet some of these measurements are still pretty much in general use as are pounds, ounces & stones.

      In my car I can view my petrol consumption in miles to the gallon or litres to the kilometer but the fuel which goes into the fuel tank is measured in litres and the odometer shows only miles so there is no way to make a simple comparison without having to work out between the two sets of measurements.

      I wish the UK would make up it's mind one way or another properly and then stick to it !

    3. Re:How deep? by jabithew · · Score: 5, Funny

      ...I know a pint...

      Ah, a fine university education at work.

      --
      All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
    4. Re:How deep? by Pvt_Ryan · · Score: 5, Funny
      I should correct that:

      "Launch the Nukes", "Sir yes sir", "Sir I have clicked the button, however it is now prompting me 'Are you sure you really want to launch Nuke?'"
      *Presses YES*
      "But are you really really really sure?"
      *Presses YES again*
      "Do you want windows to remember this choice in future?"
      *Presses NO*
      *paperclip appears*
      "Would you like help 'Launching Nuke'?"
      *Presses No*
      *Walks to the main hatch in dispair*
      *Opens main hatch while 100' below the surface using manual leaver to avoid that damn paperclip*

    5. Re:How deep? by hey! · · Score: 5, Interesting

      A league is about the distance a healthy man can walk on a good road in one hour. A fathom is about the height of a tall man; it is about eighteen hand widths (fingers closed). A US gallon is the volume of eight pounds of water. An imperial gallon (i.e. the UK gallon) is the volume of ten pounds of water.

      One interesting thing about weights. The system of dram/ounce/pound is base 16, which makes division by two a practical measuring operation. Take a pound of something readily dividable, divide it into two equal portions (using a balance scale). Then repeat the process four times. The result is one ounce.

      This shows the offsetting virtues of traditional units. While they are difficult to calculate with, they are convenient for measuring things -- especially when it come to quantifying things for sale.

      For example, consider length:
      1 inch = approximately the width of a thumb
      1 hand = 4 inches = width of a hand with fingers closed
      1 ft = 3 hands
      1 yard = 3 ft
      1 fathom = 2 yards
      1 rod = 5.5 yards = length of ox goad
      1 chain = 22 yards = 100 links in standard survey chain
      1 furlong = 10 chains = distance ox team can plow without rest
      1 mile = 880 fathoms

      Notice that if you lay out a square field such that an ox team can plow one furrow across then rest, you get a square with sides of exactly one furlong or 660 ft. The area of that field 43,600 square feet, which is nearly exactly one acre (43,560 ft).

      For purposes of round measurement (no fractions), such as you would use in commerce, traditional measurement is far more convenient. If I'm buying liquor, the following units exhaust all the practical measures to which I might wish to round a purchase:

      1 mouthful
      1 jigger (aka 1 fluid ounce) = 2 mouthfuls
      1 jack = 2 jiggers
      1 gill = 2 jacks = 4 jiggers
      1 cup = 2 gills = 8 jiggers = 16 mouthfuls
      1 pint = 2 cups
      1 quart = 2 pints = 4 cups
      1 gallon = 4 quarts = 8 pints = 16 cups
      1 cask = 16 gallons
      1 barrel = 2 casks
      1 hogshead = 2 barrels
      1 butt = 2 hogsheads = 4 barrels
      1 tun = 2 butts = 4 hogsheads = 8 barrels

      In such a system of measurement, you never, ever have to deal with fractions. Breaking down into smaller units is simply a matter of dividing a whole into two equal parts. So if you want to buy things without having to specify fractions, traditional units are the bee's knees (equal to 1 / 128 of an inch ... no just kidding). That's not so important in a world with calculators -- you just calculate a unit price.

      Still, if you want to buy eight feet, three inches of rope, you can measure out twenty-four hands and three thumbs and come rather close.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    6. Re:How deep? by famebait · · Score: 5, Informative

      The real failure here is in not teaching graspable examples and estimates.

      For everyday tasks, simple but rough conversions convey a lot more understanding than tables of four-digit factors. And so here it is, from a native metric user who has had to parse some imperial in his time, unsuitable for exacrt measurements, but helps you understand your world:
      The rough imperial/metric survival guide

      Basic equivalences:

      * A litre and a quart is roughly the same
      * A yard and a meter is roughly the same
      * A imperial ton and a metric tonne (1000kg) are almost exactly the same.

      Rules of thumb:

      * A US quart is almost one liter.
      * A UK quart is a bit more than a liter.
          => a pint is about half a liter a liter is about 2 pints
          => a gallon is about 4 litres
          => a cup is about a quarter liter

      * A pound is almost half a kilo
      * A stone is just over 6 kilos

      * An ounce of weight (any kinds) is almost 30 grams
          => there are about 35 ounces in a kilo
          => 100grams is between 3 and 4 ounces.

      * A CD is 12cm wide
      * The hole in the CD can contain a 1cm square

      * A foot is about 30cm. A metric desk ruler is typically 30cm long.
          => an inch is about 2.5cm.
          => 10cm is about 4 inces
          => 1m is about 40inches

      * A yard is about a meter
          => There are about 3 feet to a meter
          => A fathom is almost 2 meters

      * An imperial mile is about one and a half kilometer
      * A league is almost exactly 5555m.
      * A league is roughly five and a half kilometers

      * For typical oven temereatures Fahrenheit is roughly Celsius * 2
          This is less than 10% off from 150C through 300C, but possibly not exact
          enough for sensitive baked goods.

      * For typical weather temperatures, don't even bother beyond some selcted
          datapoints, choose the ones you feel are handy:
              F and C equal. Awfully, fiercely cold weather, but can be found:
              -40F = -40C
              Temperature of a good home freezer. Skiing starts getting chilly:
                  0F = -18C
              Reliably thaw-free. Lasting good skiing conditions:
                25F = -4C
              Water freezes/melts:
                32F = 0C
              Maximum density of water, commonly the temp of water below the ice:
                39F = 4C
              Standard "room temperature" in chemistry. A bit too cold for T-shirts though.
                68F = 20C
              Perfect balmy weather IMO, but then I am a northerner:
                77F = 25C
              Body temperature, or bloody hot weather:
              100F = 37C

      I can't really grasp how far a kilometre or mile is

      If you do any walking, running, or cycling: measure your most common route on
      a map in kilometers or miles, that should give you a very intuitive scale on
      those.

      And remember: Google is your friend! You can type straight in stuff like:
          "2.4 us pints in l"

      --
      sudo ergo sum
  3. Obvious reason by cjfs · · Score: 5, Funny

    The navy liked their version of minesweeper best.

  4. Learning from prior mistakes by JYD · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Didn't the Brits hear about what happened to the USS Yorktown when they tried Windows as a naval solution. God save the Queen, please.

    1. Re:Learning from prior mistakes by philspear · · Score: 5, Funny

      They did indeed learn from past mistakes and are remarkably forward-thinking. They made a boat that was doomed to fail miserably, named it the Titanic, and said it was unsinkable. Many years later there was a movie made about it that was a box-office smash hit. They're now seeding an even bigger future movie by making certain that ALL their boats will sink.

    2. Re:Learning from prior mistakes by leomekenkamp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not having input validation on a userland application should NEVER be the reason a whole OS goes belly-up.

      Your suggestion could be interpreted that Microsoft was not to blame on the Yorktown debacle, which is wrong.

      --
      Wenn ist das Nunstueck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.
    3. Re:Learning from prior mistakes by ray-auch · · Score: 5, Funny

      > ... making certain that ALL their boats will sink

      These boats are submarines. They'd be broken if they _didn't_ sink.

  5. Won't work by this+great+guy · · Score: 5, Funny

    I mean who in a sane mind would want windows on a submarine ? It's not like there is anything interesting to see in the darkness of the depths.

  6. Next generation? by rolfc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This roll-out must be 5 years overdue, windows 2000 server?

  7. Saving the tax payer £22 mil by sakdoctor · · Score: 5, Informative

    Summary fails to mention, and sort of implies the opposite; The cost saving is down to using off the shelf hardware, not switching to windows.

    1. Re:Saving the tax payer £22 mil by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 5, Informative

      Was custom built hardware running Ada86 custom software

      Then Mixture of SPARC's running Custom Solaris system, and custom hardware, and the same Ada software

      Now some off the shelf hardware (PC's) running custom version of Windows somewhere between Win2k and XP?

      N.B. The Sonar system however run Linux ....

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
  8. HMS Bob by Snufu · · Score: 5, Funny

    Tech support: "Can you tell us the problem with your submarine?"
    HMS Bob: "Das Not Boot."

  9. other news by Jeek+Elemental · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wolfgang Petersen is reportedly preparing to make "Das Reboot", a (very) short sequel.

  10. First informative post... mod parent up. by argent · · Score: 5, Insightful

    20 posts before the first one that actually provides useful information.

    Is that a typical ratio on slashdot? I haven't been keeping track.

    1. Re:First informative post... mod parent up. by freddy_dreddy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Is that a typical ratio on slashdot?

      No, normally it's worse, but this time the title includes Windows - so brace yourself for a flood of cliches.

      --
      "Violence is the last refuge of the competent, and, generally, the first refuge of the incompetent" - Thing_1
  11. The subs the least of our problems by Evil_Ether · · Score: 5, Funny

    I find the words Windows and nuclear been uttered in the same sentence very disconcerting.

    --
    If taxation is legalized theft, then Capitalism is a prolonged rape followed by a slow death.
    1. Re:The subs the least of our problems by Roland+Piquepaille · · Score: 5, Funny

      Oh yeah? How about "The USAF accidentally dropped a nuclear bomb in Redmond, WA that fortunately didn't explode, but damaged the building of famous Windows OS maker Microsoft, instantly crushing CEO Steve Ballmer and the entire marketing team into a pulp."

      Feel better now?

  12. I am relieved! by Erikderzweite · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now I can sleep safer knowing that if the Brits are about to launch a nuclear missile from a submarine and start WWIII, a UAC window will pop up asking if they are sure about it.

  13. Not a nice environment to work in by Kupfernigk · · Score: 5, Funny
    I was talking to a retired submariner only last week, a former 1st Lt (exec equivalent), and he commented that being in a submarine is like being in prison, only with no visitors. Most submariners hate it. Think about it: you are in a steel box which is actually quite fragile, and your life is entirely dependent on the decisions made by one man. On a surface ship you may have some influence on your fate (shooting down an enemy aircraft with a gun or a missile, deciding exactly when and where to abandon ship) but in a sub you have no control at all.

    Now think about a corporate drone using Windows. Your desktop is locked down, updates are rolled out by IT. If your machine is taken over by an IE exploit, the Exchange server fails, etc. etc., there is nothing you can do about it.

    Conclusion: Windows is the appropriate operating system for submarines.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
  14. Here's where the real savings are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Summary fails to mention, and sort of implies the opposite; The cost saving is down to using off the shelf hardware, not switching to windows.

    Windows made the submarines on-the-shelf hardware, they'll be sitting pretty on some reef shelf in no time.

    Mr. Malda, I'm submitting the news article for 2009-01-19 ahead of time:
    Microsoft's Ian McKenzie announced today that the entire Royal Navy Nuclear Submarine fleet had sunk due to a Windows buffer overflow. HMS Vigilant's captain, Commander Bob Anstey, said: "I heard my 1st officer shouting 'Captain, Be SOD, Overflow!', so I yelled at him: 'Get the caulking guns ready, you SOD!' and he just gave me a blank stare and said: 'We cannot caulk this one, sir! Vigilant's a goner!' Well, bugger me!"

    In other news:
    HMS Vigilant's captain, Commander Bob Anstey allegedly accidentally fired a nuclear missile at Redmond, Washington in an attempt to complete the Windows Activation of the newly installed 'Submarine Command System Next Generation' customized Windows XP system. "It was a bug, yes, that's it. Some kind of unfortunate bug triggered the 19-step launch sequence," said Commander Anstey. Nobody at or near Microsoft could be reached for a comment.

  15. Sinking ship? by sepelester · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sounds like sub standard software to me

  16. Windows Security Certification by ei4anb · · Score: 5, Funny

    Slashdot people often said that a Windows computer is only secure when encased in a steel box and sunk beneath the sea. So, why complain now?

  17. Das Reboot by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just came here to say "Das Reboot" in a random place.

    --
    No sig today...
  18. Not quite true by Kupfernigk · · Score: 5, Informative

    If the UK no longer responds to messages and they have reason to believe this is due to war damage, they open their sealed, handwritten letter from the Prime Minister. This contains their instructions. There is of course much speculation as to what it contains, ranging from "Hi, welcome to the US Navy" to "I told them Iraq had WMDs, but would they listen?". Sadly, barring a takeover of the UK by pacifists, we will never find out.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
  19. Not so sane, either. by westlake · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I see nothing irrational or excessive at all. The US has deliberately sent the Lucetania* into a battle zone in order to enter WWI, disregarded intelligence that could have prevented Pearl Harbor, entered a virtual battle in Tonkin to enter Vietnam, and made up stories on WMD to enter Iraq.

    The Lusitania was a Cunard liner.

    In 1915 nothing on this Earth could be more British. She was torpedoed just south of Queenstown, Ireland, on May 7, 1915. The ship went down in 18 minutes. 1,195 died, including 123 Americans. The U.S. was a neutral in 1915 and her ports were open to ships of all nations. The Lost Liners - Lusitania [Robert Ballard, PBS 2000]

    That Japan was about to make a move against the U.S. was known.

    But where?

    The Pearl Harbor attack was a hit and run raid, and, in the end, the attack bought Japan only six months of naval superiority in the Pacific. Pearl, after all, was nothing more or less than a forward naval base. It wasn't where ships were being built or men being trained. It wasn't rubber or oil or other strategic materials. Report Debunks Theory That the U.S. Heard a Coded Warning About Pearl Harbor [Dec 6, 2008]

    Tonkin didn't feel like a virtual battle to those who fought in it. Anatomy of a crisis [March 2004], What Should We Tell Our Children About Vietnam? [May 1988]

    There was - let us say - fair reason to be a tad suspicious about Iraq's abandonment of WMDs:

    In 1995, UNSCOM's principal weapons inspector..showed Taha documents...that showed the Iraqi government had just purchased 10 tons of growth medium. Iraq's hospital consumption of growth medium was just 200 kg a year; yet in 1988, Iraq imported 39 tons of it. Shown this evidence by UNSCOM, Taha admitted to the inspectors that she had grown 19,000 litres of botulism toxin; 8,000 litres of anthrax; 2,000 litres of aflatoxins, which can cause liver failure; Clostridium perfringens, a bacterium that can cause gas gangrene; and ricin, a castor-bean derivative which can kill by impeding circulation. She also admitted conducting research into cholera, salmonella, foot and mouth disease, and camel pox, a disease that uses the same growth techniques as smallpox, but which is safer for researchers to work with. It was because of the discovery of Taha's work with camel pox that the U.S. and British intelligence services feared Saddam Hussein may have been planning to weaponize the smallpox virus. Iraq and weapons of mass destruction

    _____

    * - Spell-checking is built into Firefox and the ieSpellplug-in has been around for quite some time as well.