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Denver Couple Unveils Homemade Service Robot

An anonymous reader writes "Jim & Louise Gunderson, owners of a Denver-based computer software tool development company, have finally unveiled their autonomous robot, Basil. Basil is completely home built, runs Linux with some instructions in Java, uses a sonar-based 'reification' logic system, and can go get you a beer or a pot of tea. Quoting: 'The plan is this: The Gundersons will ask Basil to go to the bar, request a couple of stouts from the bartender, and then, once they're placed on the titanium tray perched on his head, bring them back to his creators. They haven't told him how to do this — there's no set script in his processors that tells him to roll a certain distance southwest, speak a certain command, then come back. He'll have to figure it all out on his own, using a basic knowledge of bars and beers and so on, reasoning skills and an ability to understand certain parts of the world. When his sonars capture the image of a person, for example, he knows it's a person, not just a nameless object to be avoided. And he knows that, in this case, that person wants a beer.'"

140 comments

  1. Well, then get me a beer by h4x354x0r · · Score: 0

    slave.

    --
    They were right - the revolution did not get televised. It was posted on YouTube instead. All in 120 characters. SLOOSH!
    1. Re:Well, then get me a beer by rvw · · Score: 1

      slave.

      So this is not beer as in "free"...?

    2. Re:Well, then get me a beer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I got as far as "can go get you a beer or a pot..." and my mind instantly went into a Family Guy style sidetrack of Dr. Chaotica's "Satan's Robot" bringing me a nice fudge brownie with sprinkles in a mono-chromatic environment repeating the phrase "intruder alert!"

      Bet you can't guess what I just inhaled!

    3. Re:Well, then get me a beer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PCP?

  2. FAAAAAKKKEE by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "I recognize a person 69cm away"
    "I recognize a wooden chair"

    Right. Using sonar, the robot is able to determine the composition of the chair.

    Given that the robot's speech patterns are not broken at all, and that it speaks in complete sentences, it seems more likely that this is a blinkenlites contraption with a very human person controlling it the whole time.

    1. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by Baron_Yam · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I won't disagree that it's fake, but I expect the sonar return is qualitatively affected by the type of surface it hits.

      Even my human ears can tell the difference between some types of wall coverings based on ambient sound reflections.

      In short, I'd want an expert in sonar to call bullshit on this one before I definitively choose sides.

    2. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by Zironic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      From reading the article it seems to think every object with 4 feet and a straight back is a wooden chair and all the voices are probably prerecorded. It's not like it can invent new abstract objects on it's own.

    3. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by juiceboxfan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Right. Using sonar, the robot is able to determine the composition of the chair.

      That's a bit cynical. While it's unlikely this thing is as autonomous as they would like us to believe there may be an explanation for the "detailed" description of the objects. Perhaps it was taught that an object of that height/width is a "wooden chair". And, much as a young child will run around and point at any small animal and say "doggy!" no matter what type of animal it is, anything about that size and shape is recognized as a "wooden chair".

      Without more information it's hard to say for sure.

    4. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was likely trained on 'wooden chair' - any chair may be referred to as 'wooded chair'.

      The speech pattern that you mention, if you're alluding to the video, is a boot sequence monologue - it's not spontaneous speech.

      That said, their claims do seem exaggerated. They appear to be early in the implementation of their ideas regarding a model of 'reification' that they're pursuing. But the capabilities that they claim are present aren't apparent. Perhaps the modelling that's occurring is actually as sophisticated as they claim, but the robot's behavior doesn't indicate this, or suggests that a sophisticated model isn't necessary for what it is that the robot is intended to do.

    5. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I know the people involved. They're not fraudsters.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    6. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. I think a lot of people are missing that the cool part of this is "reification", not "it can do X".

    7. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by jcarkeys · · Score: 1

      Differences in the sound reflected in your example are because of the differences in frequency in the originating sound. The sound rangefinding they're using uses one specific frequency and is going to be pretty darn close. Unless they're also using laser rangefinding as well to compare the difference, I don't think there's anyway to distinguish what sort've material an object is made of with just sound.

    8. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell that to bats, moron.

    9. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by Smauler · · Score: 1

      I've got four feet and a straight back, you insensitive clod!

    10. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a SUB being used as a table right?

    11. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well if you think it's real, then it must be!

    12. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by DriedClexler · · Score: 4, Informative

      Even my human ears can tell the difference between some types of wall coverings based on ambient sound reflections.

      Oh, there's a lot more potential for you than that. Humans actually be trained in echolocation. Blind people even pick it up, thinking they're using their face for it, and so it's been called "facial vision".

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    13. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      And dolphins... they can find things under sand with a quick chirp or two.

    14. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by mr_e_cat · · Score: 1

      Anybody peddling an autonomous general purpose domestic robot is a snake oil salesman. We are at least 20 yrs away from that (ie never).

      The DARPA challenge has been a major step forward, but those robots only do one "simple" task. They did not have to deal with any mechanical challenges. They just added sensors and software to an already highly developed (over 100 years) mechanical system.

      Domestic automation will continue as it has done for the last few decades, with the development of cost effective single task machines, dish washers, clothes washers, vacuum cleaners, lawn mowers.

    15. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by tachyonflow · · Score: 3, Informative

      I saw a demonstration of Basil earlier this month at the event mentioned in the article, and the Gundersons explained some of the technology and what they are trying to accomplish.

      There is nothing special about the sonar -- it's just a simple low-bitrate input scheme. The Gundersons are focusing on solving the problems of environment perception by focusing on a cognitive model instead of throwing horsepower at interpreting the input in fine detail, as computer vision or perhaps some sort of advanced sonar would. The robot manages an internal model of its environment, and compares the input to its expectations instead of continually trying to reconstruct a scene. Perhaps it distinguishes a chair from a person with clues (a chair doesn't move on its own, for instance).

    16. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by davester666 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Evidently, my mind is in the gutter, as when I read "service robot", I did not think of the kind of service that the summary actually discusses.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    17. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually no it's easy to detect a chair. We were doing it in the 80's with robotics. You can sense a chair because it has multiple spindley legs. This is EASILY seen with a rotating range finder. People are easy to detect because they fidget. your target will contine to move a bit.

      What they are doing is NOT innovastive. Many of us in robotics have done it a decade ago.

    18. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Says the online person that none of us know. Maybe you're on the team/one of the team.

    19. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by coaxial · · Score: 1

      I doubt that it it's actually identifying the composition and shape. Its most likely a big case statement. Sonar comes back with some profile and the case statement contains stuff like:

      "person"
      "wooden chair"
      "wall"

      If you stick something roughly the same size and shape of the chair like a metal chair, or even a box, it will also think that's a wooden chair. So yeah, it's sort of faked, just not in the way you're thinking.

    20. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by mollymoo · · Score: 1

      The amount of sound reflected would vary depending on the material it bounced off. Wooden chairs are quieter than metal chairs at any frequency. In principle I see no reason why single-frequency sonar couldn't tell the difference between a typical metal chair and a typical wooden chair. The time gives the range and the intensity of the return gives a hint about its composition. I'm sure it's just trained on the chairs it knows and has pretty limited experience, so would get confused about chairs which were very different to the ones it's encountered, but I don't see any reason not to believe it's doing what they say it's doing.

      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
    21. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      About the echolocation thing;
      I recently went into a darkroom for the first time in my life. I decided to close the red-orange light that illuminates the room in order to "see" what total blackness feels like.
      I quickly realised that I could not see my finger if I held it right in front of my face, but that aside from the obvious kinesthesia, I could also sense the general location of my arm by the way the sound of my breathing was altered. Actually, the most obvious and easy thing to echolocate is your shoulders; it is really trivial (especially if your shoulders are bared, as cloth absorbs high frequencies) to feel whether your shoulders are hunched or not by simply listening to the echos reflecting on your skin.

    22. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by StormShaman · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't moving your own body be a red herring, since sounds emanating from you travel through your own body, and hunching your shoulders might also change the shape of your diaphragm. Wouldn't a better test be to move an object near you and see if that changes the sound of your breathing?

    23. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by somersault · · Score: 1

      I thought the point isn't that a robot servant would be able to have attachments to be able to cut the grass or clean clothes, but that it could make use of the same tools that humans use for these things. A robot with decent legs, arms, and appropriate sensors (for balance, vision, grip, etc) is all you need.

      The only thing missing is software, but make the robot's software expandable with plugins or firmware updates and it would count as general purpose in my book. It doesn't have to actually do everything. It just has to have the potential for doing it given the right software. Nobody would say that an x86 processor isn't a general purpose processor, but that doesn't mean programs currently exist for them to do everything imaginable. Even humans can't effectively use a dishwasher or clothes-washing machine without a little information and instruction.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    24. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by mr_e_cat · · Score: 1

      A robot with decent legs, arms, and appropriate sensors (for balance, vision, grip, etc) is all you need

      I agree with you. That is all you need. But we don't have it. They have not built a "humanoid" robot, but a very crude machine. So I am not impressed. In my opinion, the mechanical engineering problem is much harder then the software problem. New materials and actuators are required, and I don't see them coming any time soon. So we will be stuck with incremental improvements to the machines we currently use.

    25. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by mr_e_cat · · Score: 1

      So you are saying they have entered the environmental data (ie room dimensions, furniture type and expected position etc). Then they know roughly what to expect and adapt from that baseline. That would simplify the task. A valid approach.

    26. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by jelle · · Score: 1

      So... In that case that robot is going to get utterly confused when somebody moves a chair when the robot is looking the other direction, or when a person keeps standing in the same spot... or when a person pushes another person aside...

      And it will think that it's a chair, while it's actually grandpa sleeping _in_ a chair... Unless you first get the builders of the 'robot' to show it grandpa in a chair from all angles (see the article...) and tell it that that is grandpa sleeping in a chair... and it will still think that it's grandpa sleeping in a chair while it's actually grandma just watching tv while not moving... Repeat the training procedure again for grandma in a chair, and the robot will not know what's in the chair because both options look exactly the same with sonar... repeat the same for everything the robot may encounter and your retirement day will arrive before you're done training the robot, but the robot will realize it doesn't know anything about the world around it much earlier...

      All they made was a classifier. There are many of those, and you can compare them very well in a scientific manner to see how this one stacks up. They did not do that, they put it in a robot and convinced a journalist to write about it...

      Perhaps it's just not as advanced as the article would like it to appear... aka snake-oil.

      --
      --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
    27. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 1

      Really it would be impossible to judge unless somebody else were moving something. It's impossible for somebody who otherwise experiences things normally to completely eradicate proportional self-awareness.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    28. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 1

      Maybe you're their arch enemy, attempting to spread tendrils of FUD to undermine their credibility.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    29. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 1

      From what I see, this prototype isn't very multipurpose. It seems just to be a table that moves itself and figures out tasks based on environment instead of following a set of instructions (if things are as they are portrayed).

      I don't think there is any claim that this device is going to be doing everything tomorrow, just that it can approach tasks within its featureset (move things around) with the AI equivalent of an 'open mind' that adapts to changing environments.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    30. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It seems to me that you have missed (what I believe is) the point. The robot has an initial, object-based, dimensionally-limited/understood model of its environment. If somebody 'moves a chair' when not in the sensory view of the robot, the robot isn't going to get confused, it's just going to process the basics of the space (such as the walls not moving) see that a previous element in that space is now not there, delete that object from its model, add the same object back in its new location. A robot doesn't care about 'continuity' like a human being does unless you program it to care. If the robot just needs a working model to move through a space, all it cares about is where things are now in relation to a larger, dimensional baseline for the model. If anything, the most confusing thing for something like this would likely be a door, worse a really big door like a garage door, that would alter the space the robot perceives.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    31. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      And children.

      This boy can properly identify objects as small as a pencil; just not easily. He can ride his bike and roller skate, while avoiding children and objects simply by using echo location.

      Not to mention, the military can fairly accurately identify threats (SAM, AA-tank, should launched AA, so on and so on - except specific models) simply by radar returns, against significant ground clutter. Expecting a robot to do so in a limited and known environment is trivial by today's DSP requirements.

    32. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by TheLink · · Score: 1

      "I'd want an expert in sonar to call bullshit on this one"

      Like a dolphin? They can most certainly tell.

      The dolphin could give you an ultrasound and see if something is seriously wrong with your insides...

      Or, pick a choice internal organ to ram and damage:

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/3323070/Killer-dolphins-baffle-marine-experts.html

      Our sonar of course is a lot crappier.

      --
    33. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Sorry about the confusion, but you are absolutely correct, the sonars are not classifying the material. In the lab there are several different types of chairs, and Basil has constructed sensor based models of most of them. The two main types are the four-legged wooden chairs and the wheeled office chairs. Basil uses the sonar patterns (Percepts in our terms) to distinguish between these based (primarily) on the different shape of the legs. The semantic tags attached to the percepts are 'wooden-chair' and 'short-wheeled-chair', so when the robot classified the chair in the video, it used the tag 'wooden-chair'

      However, the robot is doing everything on its own, there is no joystick, no person wearing a headset just off camera. the robot has a complete planning/execution system, and uses a reification engine (for more details see our book "Robots, Reasoning, and Reification") to semantically tag what it senses.

      Sorry about the anonymous posting, I'm waiting for slashdot to send me a password,
      Jim Gunderson

    34. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by TheLink · · Score: 1

      It doesn't even have to be echo location.

      Even with your eyes closed, you can detect someone putting a hand near your ear just from it blocking the ambient sound.

      Try it!

      My guess if you were in a "semi alert" state (and not oblivious state) and something big suddenly "appeared" behind you, dramatically changing the soundscape, you'd notice too.

      I believe more than a few of our ancestors have survived because of that ability :).

      --
    35. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by jgunders · · Score: 1

      The process is a little more complex, but if there are two objects that appear identical to the sonars, the robot cannot tell them apart, any more than if you were to see two identical objects, you would not be able to distinguish between them. We based the design on the mechanisms that biological systems use for recognition and preafference, so it has the same basic characteristics, and the same failure modes.

    36. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by fugue · · Score: 1

      Sailors and fishermen sometimes prefer analog sonar depth sounders to the digital ones because the analog ones show a qualitative picture of the shape of the bounce, rather than just its peak. This means that they can help you to guess what the seabed is made of--the bounce from mud looks different from that from stones, from sand, from a shoal of fish. And the digital ones are getting more sophisticated, and giving more information than just the peak of the reflection, allowing them to make those guesses for you. So yes, active sonar absolutely could do this. However, I really doubt they are doing it. Seems overkill.

      --
      "The biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place."
    37. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by coaxial · · Score: 1

      My point was that "wooden chair" is simply a label. The machine has no idea that it's two words, nor meaning of the words. It could have been called "battleship" and the machine would be humming along identically.

      It's not doing material analysis like some here want to believe.

      I was thinking you're running some sort of multiclass classification system. Originally I was thinking you were doing something like k-means, but then I realized that with the noisy environment, you're probably doing something like multiclass PCA or LDA or something. I'd like to know which ML approach you're using.

    38. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by oneTheory · · Score: 1

      I think I'm the only person that actually exists and you are all automatons. Go screw yourselves you damn robots!

      Goodness knows i'm not getting much play from your 'female model', in fact i somehow tend to become enlisted to serve them...

    39. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by mr_e_cat · · Score: 1

      I don't think there is any claim that this device is going to be doing everything tomorrow.

      The headline of the article is:-

      "The Gundersons get us ready for Basil, the robot of our dreams"

      Quite a claim, really, but an "intelligent" table is not the robot of anyones dreams.

    40. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      I won't say that it is fake because it's very easy to generalize about the composition of a chair of a certain shape. Make that shape out of metal and you will fool the robot, however that's a long way to go to fool a stupid robot!

    41. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, not fake. I've seen Basil in action at Mile Hi Con in Denver -- October 2008. They started out with a lobotomized version of his software and re-taught him to recognize a chair and a person. It was quite a demonstration of learning skills.

    42. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 1

      I would say its quite disingenuous to call that a 'claim', that's just an eye-catching, hyperbolous title no doubt originating only in the mind of the author of the article. It seems that you are irrationally predisposed to be hostile toward this thing, and can't be bothered to separate the developers from the lens of the press that you're necessarily viewing them through.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    43. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by mr_e_cat · · Score: 1

      All I have to go on is the article, which as you say is hyperbolous. I think we essentially agree. The developers have no doubt worked hard and maybe have made some incremental contribution to robotics AI. But that is hard to judge from the hyperbolous article. Their website has zero information. It looks to me like just another homebrew robot. I would love love love to be proved wrong

      A hyperbolous christmas to you.

    44. Re:FAAAAAKKKEE by Greyhart · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As one of the Friends of Basil (The people helping to build him) I can assure you that it is not fake. Yes, Basil was taught that a certain sonar return equals a wooden chair, and another sonar return equals a person. Remember, he has 12 sonars to work with. If he gets the return from those 12 sonars for the wooden chair, he calls it such. If he gets a return that is similar, he will say that it could be a wooden chair, or it could be something else. If he's not sure, he would have to orbit the unknown object taking sonar readings, and comparing them to what he already knows about. If all the readings seem to indicate a wooden chair, that's what he calls it. If not, he logs the object until someone tells him what it is. Technically, it doesn't matter what he decides to call it as long as he can distinguish it from any other object. The only reason to tell him what the new object is, would be to facilitate communication. After all, I have no idea what he means when he talks about object 362, but if I tell him that object 362 is a refrigerator, I can now tell him to get me a beer from the refrigerator, and he'll know what to do.

  3. First Post by Jeheto · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Wow, very nice. Their job should be to put one in every house!

    1. Re:First Post by NeverVotedBush · · Score: 1

      Well, with a flat head that holds a couple of beers, there could be some other jobs for that robot... Maybe rename it Rosie... ;-)

  4. Bowtie? Nice try. by cliffiecee · · Score: 5, Funny

    Don't let that bowtie fool you. I know a Dalek when I see one.

    1. Re:Bowtie? Nice try. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But it has to work, it runs on snake oil.

    2. Re:Bowtie? Nice try. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Intoxicate! Intoxicate!!! INTOXICATE!!!!!

  5. But, I'm a Frank Zappa fan... by Ronald+Dumsfeld · · Score: 5, Funny

    Beer? Great! But what is beer without titties?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwb1s1DYnDU

    --
    Where's the Kaboom?
    There's supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom.
    1. Re:But, I'm a Frank Zappa fan... by nurb432 · · Score: 1, Funny

      i don't think you want to see hers.

      No wonder they don't have kids.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    2. Re:But, I'm a Frank Zappa fan... by ChienAndalu · · Score: 1

      I wonder if they called the robot "XQJ 37"

  6. oblig. by AlXtreme · · Score: 1

    EXTERMINATE!

    --
    This sig is intentionally left blank
    1. Re:oblig. by ciderVisor · · Score: 1

      [ring modulate] "You would have made a good Dalek." [/ring modulate]

      --
      Squirrel!
  7. EE 83 Ball Model by germansausage · · Score: 5, Funny

    Any UBC EEs from 83/84 will remember our robot, also called Basil, because it was somewhat faulty (Fawlty).

    1. Re:EE 83 Ball Model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes but shouldn't it really be called Manuel?

  8. May I be one of the earliest... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to welcome our beer-distributing robot overlords, and wish them a happy christmas?

  9. How long before these clog the w00t? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Instead of Roombas? I'm tired of every 4th thing on w00t.com being a smegging roomba.

    I for one welcome our new beer delivery overlords.

  10. Uh-oh by sfjoe · · Score: 4, Funny

    "...runs Linux with some instructions in Java..."

    Uh-oh, they used the J-word. Wait until the Slashdot Religious Order gets their hands on them.

    --
    It's simple: I demand prosecution for torture.
    1. Re:Uh-oh by fnorky · · Score: 1

      Oh it gets even better. I know the Gunderson's and have had the pleasure of looking over the hardware that Basil. The micro-controllers that run the motors and sensors are programmed in Java.

      The main system board is running Slackware Linux 12.1. I expect a BIG religious war now.

  11. I, for one, by oodaloop · · Score: 5, Funny

    welcome my beer. Thanks, robot underling.

    --
    Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    1. Re:I, for one, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, the more advanced GEN 2 model will be able to say (with perfect intonation and inflection), "Get your own fucking beer, loser!".

      This advance will be heralded as making it almost as good as Ex Wife 1.0.

    2. Re:I, for one, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      bravo

    3. Re:I, for one, by religious+freak · · Score: 1

      /me tips hat

      --
      If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
  12. Sounds exaggerated by Animats · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It looks like the sensors are dumb ranging sonars at four heights. Those are very crude sensors; all you get is the range of the nearest solid object in a 30 degree cone. You could probably separate walls, tables, chairs, and humans with that, at least some of the time. It won't ever work very well. People have been fooling with those things since the 1980s. (The usual sonar sensors are left over from Polaroid auto-focus cameras. Very few robotics people have tried to do serious sonar processing, like submarines or bats.) You're just too information-starved. Vision, though...

    There's been much more progress in the last five years than most people realize, though. SLAM works now. Vision algorithms actually work. Low-cost inertial devices work. We're starting to see the payoff from the DARPA Grand Challenge, which gave robotics a serious and needed butt-kick.

    1. Re:Sounds exaggerated by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 1

      I will be the first to admit that I don't know that much about the practical application of sonar in situations like this, but abstractly, wouldn't the use of 12 different sonar sensors possibly create a matrix that through some kind of differential process create a sensory model that's more useful than a single sensor or smaller array?

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    2. Re:Sounds exaggerated by Yvanhoe · · Score: 2, Informative

      There's been much more progress in the last five years than most people realize, though. SLAM works now. Vision algorithms actually work. Low-cost inertial devices work. We're starting to see the payoff from the DARPA Grand Challenge, which gave robotics a serious and needed butt-kick.

      In my humble opinion, the Darpa Grand Challenge, by offering a market to LIDAR makers, made vision-based SLAM a thing of the past and the under-budgeted : This beast has 64 laser telemeters on a rotating head. It gives a 100 000 3D points cloud of the environment 10 times per second. A working video slam seems to pale in comparison...

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    3. Re:Sounds exaggerated by mrmeval · · Score: 1

      I doubt they have the computing power to do that. You can get a 3D model that way using some of the bleeding edge DSP chips and novel software but it won't give you composition. You would also need higher resolution ultrasonic sensors ones capable of sending out and receiving more complex signals. Multiple frequencies would be better either from on or multiple sensors.

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    4. Re:Sounds exaggerated by Animats · · Score: 2, Informative

      In my humble opinion, the Darpa Grand Challenge, by offering a market to LIDAR makers, made vision-based SLAM a thing of the past and the under-budgeted.

      That's what many of us with Grand Challenge entries once thought. Even Sebastian Thrun once thought that. But, in fact, the winning 2005 Stanford "Stanley" vehicle was running mostly on vision. Above 25MPH it was out-driving its LIDAR range. The vision system wasn't doing SLAM, though. It was comparing the road further ahead with the near road. If they "looked the same" (the machine learning system for making that judgment was the breakthrough) and the LIDARs profiled the near road as flat, then the vehicle could drive faster than it could stop within the LIDAR range.

      For the Urban Challenge, LIDAR units were more useful, because the speeds were slower and the environment more cluttered. But see the current issue of IEEE Trans. on Robotics, the special issue on SLAM, to see how much progress has been made. It's useful to use a camera and a limited LIDAR together with a SLAM algorithm; the vision system brings in more data and the LIDAR has less ambiguity.

      The Velodyne thing (which is a better-built version of the Team Dad spinning LIDARs of 2005) is a good device, but too big, too expensive, and has too much rotating machinery for a production product. I've met its designers and seen the thing. The next step will probably involve either flash LIDAR or MEMS mirrors. Eye-safe flash LIDAR is a reality, and if produced in volume, it wouldn't be that expensive. It's expensive now only because it needs custom ICs.

      An affordable little non-scanning 3D LIDAR for indoor use would be useful. There's the Swiss Ranger, the first device that qualifies. This is a true 3D time of flight sensor with no moving parts and 176x144 pixels. It's been around for about five years as a custom research item, but it's now being sold as a product by Acroname for $7500. The price needs to drop by an order of magnitude or two, which is quite possible.

    5. Re:Sounds exaggerated by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

      Well, I may have a distorted view of the Velodyne's pervasiveness because I am working on a project involving it in my current job but I seem to remember that it became quite popular after Stanley's victory. In 2006 it gave (in an early version) many good results and in 2007 I think I read somewhere that it was used on most of the competing vehicles. Many people I met told me that they saw flash-LIDARs as a promising tech and quite probably as the future of LIDAR sensing but they doubt it will become available in a form that allows it to be embeded on a mobile robot with reasonable performances within the next few years.

      I fail to see how rotating machinery prevents industrialization of a product. Car engines, hard drives, optical drives, motorized camera lenses are all successful products involving precise mechanics.

      I didn't know about the Swiss Ranger camera though, thanks for pointing to it ! (that's for posts like this that I love slashdot). I didn't realize that there were affordable (the Velodyne is about 75,000$) devices for range finding. However, it still does not compete with a decent LIDAR. It has a very short range (7m or 3m depending on where you look at the spec, comparing with the 80m of the Velodyne), a low resolution and a very small field of view (comparing to the 360 of the Velodyne). Still a good product, I am waiting for the next versions :)

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    6. Re:Sounds exaggerated by Animats · · Score: 1

      It's not the compute power that's the problem. It just hasn't been done. Robot sonar data reduction could be smarter than it is. But most research is going into vision and LIDAR.

      The available sonar hardware for air is not only dumb, but obsolete. Most of it is a holdover from the Polaroid instant camera auto-focus systems. Today, everybody does auto-focus optically. There's good work going on with multi-beam sonar for underwater robotic vehicles, where vision doesn't work well but audio propagation is very good.

      You can actually build up somewhat fuzzy images from a moving sonar rangefinder; Moravec did it in the early 1980s, and I implemented a version in the late 1980s. Look up "certainty grids". You can resolve details somewhat narrower than the beam width by using pings from multiple locations. I could get a 2D image showing the legs of a chair clearly, even though the beam width was much wider than the chair legs. Fun twenty years ago.

    7. Re:Sounds exaggerated by mrmeval · · Score: 1

      Cool

      What do you think of this? I emailed the creator and he said they could pick out small boats with pretty junk computers.
      http://eddiem.com/projects/chirp/chirp.htm

      This seems to have some of what you mention.
      http://www.wa4dsy.net/robot/sonar/index.html

      I've seen a few very good robots with moving dual transducers, they seem good but I thought the computing power was high.
       

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
  13. Why the voice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it just me, or does the "robot" sound way too much like the bigger Green Mooninite on Aqua Teen?

  14. Ah, Foreign Policy! by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 5, Funny

    He'll have to figure it all out on his own, using a basic knowledge of bars and beers and so on, reasoning skills and an ability to understand certain parts of the world.

    This strategy seemed to work very well for George W. Bush.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:Ah, Foreign Policy! by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      This strategy seemed to work very well for George W. Bush.

      You must have a very different definition of 'working well' than I normally use. But Bush's behavior in the White House and Basil's behavior in the bar are eerily similar.

      FTFA:

      "This is the first time Basil's been out with his brains intact," Louise notes, adding that they've never had him complete complicated tasks in public before. When they brought him out for their recent wedding anniversary party, for example, they turned off his higher-level brain and had him dance around by dumbly bouncing from one lady to the next -- the way most guys function on the dance floor.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  15. Denver, Schmenver by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These people have the stink of Boulder all over them.

    1. Re:Denver, Schmenver by ciderVisor · · Score: 1

      Have they taken a Buffalo Gold-en shower ?

      http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/130/5088

      --
      Squirrel!
  16. Personally ... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ... I welcome our beer-toting overlords.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  17. Dollar Signs in their Eyes by critical_point · · Score: 1

    After RTFA I don't see this robot being released as a free technology, which is too bad since the last thing we need is for a revolutionary new tech industry to be once again built on marketing and closed technologies.

    The redhat business model can go into overdrive in the upcoming robot-helper industry. Deployment is assisted by open hardware and software standards, and the need for professionally paid support and custom programming will create a large new market.

    1. Re:Dollar Signs in their Eyes by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      I don't understand the fanatically rabid reaction to closed technology. It makes loads of money and last time I checked that was the only test of a successful strategy in the business world.

      Sarcasm mode on. I suppose that being open source makes it politically correct in this environment but jeez guys lighten up!

  18. Beer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Unless it can swim to Europe Hows it going to obey a command to fetch a REAL beer?

    1. Re:Beer by dotgain · · Score: 1

      It's going to create a shipping in handling industy so that neither it, nor you, will need to continue to swim to Europe for beer any longer.

  19. Denning Mobile Robotics in the '80s by mlwmohawk · · Score: 3, Informative

    At Denning we had a mobile robot security guard. It could roam a factory or warehouse looking for intruders. it had sonar, radar, and other things.

    Notifying people of appointments, delivering small objects, and serving drinks is not only possible, it is probably the easiest set of tasks that you can do.

    I have a project on-line that allows you to build a basic robot for $500. It has PWM motor control and basic tips on building the base. It uses a PS/2 mouse to do wheel encoders. (cheap) and using a USB A-D/D-A board to control stuff. (I won't give the URL for fear of slashdotting my server.)

    So, my two points: 1) It is possible they are doing what they say they can do. 2) Its fairly trivial if you have the time to waste.

    1. Re:Denning Mobile Robotics in the '80s by Enigma2175 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I have a project on-line that allows you to build a basic robot for $500. It has PWM motor control and basic tips on building the base. It uses a PS/2 mouse to do wheel encoders. (cheap) and using a USB A-D/D-A board to control stuff.

      I am a current user of your software, I found your site when looking for a way to implement wheel encoders for my robot. It has been extremely useful to me.

      For the I/O hardware on my robot, I have implemented drivers for both a Pontech SV203 and Arduino Diecimila board. I also wrote an encoder driver to use the Linux event interface rather than the ps2 interface so I could use a USB mouse encoder. On top of your software I have written a Player driver to allow me to use the robot within their framework, opening up a massive amount of new high-level functions for the robot.

      I just wanted to thank you for making your software freely available, it has helped me transform my robot from nothing to something that can localize, navigate and avoid obstacles. It has done real work sanding my deck and vacuuming my floor, now if I can only get a snowblower attachment going I will be set.

      --

      Enigma

    2. Re:Denning Mobile Robotics in the '80s by mlwmohawk · · Score: 1

      I also wrote an encoder driver to use the Linux event interface rather than the ps2 interface so I could use a USB mouse encoder.

      With USB, I could not get the mouse to send events unless and until it wanted too. The PS/2 interface allowed a fairly stable polling system from which I could calculate the interval for PID. We you able to get a stable PID system or, like most of the project, "stable enough" for actual work.

    3. Re:Denning Mobile Robotics in the '80s by Enigma2175 · · Score: 1

      With USB, I could not get the mouse to send events unless and until it wanted too. The PS/2 interface allowed a fairly stable polling system from which I could calculate the interval for PID. We you able to get a stable PID system or, like most of the project, "stable enough" for actual work.

      Mostly just "stable enough", I am still working on tuning it since I switched to the Arduino for motor control. The event interface seems to provide the data quickly enough to fit into my loop but I don't know enough about what is going on underneath to know if the mouse is sending events as it gets them. "Close enough for Government work" is the phrase that comes to mind.

      --

      Enigma

    4. Re:Denning Mobile Robotics in the '80s by mlwmohawk · · Score: 1

      Mostly just "stable enough", I am still working on tuning it since I switched to the Arduino for motor control. The event interface seems to provide the data quickly enough to fit into my loop but I don't know enough about what is going on underneath to know if the mouse is sending events as it gets them. "Close enough for Government work" is the phrase that comes to mind.

      The problem with the USB mouse interface is that there is no polling mechanism. You get the events when the mouse thinks you want them. You can't control the period and you can't be sure the time-frame in which all the clicks happened.

      Older mice with USB and PS/2 connectors (US witha PS/2 adapter) exhibit this behavior on USB yet work fine using PS/2.

      Because of the lack of determinism in the USB mouse protocol it isn't well suited. In a practical sense, and in keeping with the $500 "close enough" philosophy, it can probably work. It will have trouble in low speed precision movement, but will work well enough on cumulative "cross the room" motion.

      The biggest issue you will have is "dead reckoning" because on the diametrically opposed motor design, the relative motion of the two wheels has to be pretty accurate. Then again, inconsistent surfaces are probably a greater source of error.

    5. Re:Denning Mobile Robotics in the '80s by Enigma2175 · · Score: 1

      The problem with the USB mouse interface is that there is no polling mechanism. You get the events when the mouse thinks you want them. You can't control the period and you can't be sure the time-frame in which all the clicks happened.

      Older mice with USB and PS/2 connectors (US witha PS/2 adapter) exhibit this behavior on USB yet work fine using PS/2.

      Because of the lack of determinism in the USB mouse protocol it isn't well suited. In a practical sense, and in keeping with the $500 "close enough" philosophy, it can probably work. It will have trouble in low speed precision movement, but will work well enough on cumulative "cross the room" motion.

      The biggest issue you will have is "dead reckoning" because on the diametrically opposed motor design, the relative motion of the two wheels has to be pretty accurate. Then again, inconsistent surfaces are probably a greater source of error.

      It hasn't been too much of an issue, on the surface it seems to work as well as the PS2 interface. The reason I changed to a USB mouse was because after I moved the bot to a 2.6 kernel none of the PS/2 mice I have would allow me to set the [resolution|scaling] (I forget which). I could only read up to 127 clicks per loop, so it really limited my top speed (or would make the PID run away if the target was higher than 127). With the Linux EVDEV interface there is no overflow (as far as I can tell) so I don't have this issue. Functionally, the robot seems to perform the same with either interface so it all works out for me. The odometry is combined from information from an array of IR sensors to input into an Adaptive Monte Carlo Localization driver for player, so as long as the odometry is relatively accurate the bot can localize itself on a map. I really don't need pinpoint accuracy, with all the other slop in the bot it would probably be wasted.

      --

      Enigma

    6. Re:Denning Mobile Robotics in the '80s by mlwmohawk · · Score: 1

      o it really limited my top speed (or would make the PID run away if the target was higher than 127).

      Yea, I believe I have since added PID overflow detection in the code. I haven't worked on it in quite a while. Jobs, wife, kids, etc.

      The important part of the project, for me, was to do the PID algorithm based on measured time on a standard i.e. non real-time kernel. I was pretty happy with the results.

      I think it is time, however, to refurbish the project with a nifty dual/quad core CPU and solid state hard disk. I'll probably have to design my own DC->DC power supply because all the ones I can find, at a reasonable price, are like 60W~75W.

  20. To Hell With Manufacturing... by hyades1 · · Score: 1, Funny

    THIS is the kind of robot we need! I mean, I had a girlfriend who wouldn't get me a beer and wouldn't have sex, and who started nagging pretty much as soon as the sun came up, so the machine is already ahead on points.

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    1. Re:To Hell With Manufacturing... by mevets · · Score: 1

      did this 'girlfriend' keep nagging you to get a job and move out of her basement?

    2. Re:To Hell With Manufacturing... by hyades1 · · Score: 1

      Um, no. Sorry. I never met your mom.

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  21. Interesting by Yogiz · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I for one, really like the way they decided to proceed when making this robot. It works by a healthy mix of abstracting and trial and error.

    Let's take the wooden chair, that is used as an example in TFA. As far as I understand it, learning about it and using this information for the robot goes like this.

    They put the robot in front of the chair and let it use it's sonars on it from different angles and distances. I imagine that in the case of a typical wooden chair with a back it sees four points for the legs and a line for the back. At least I believe that it abstracts it as such. For the first time it will be input to it that the thing it sees is a wooden chair and it knows that all things that have four points about so far from each other in a squared manner and have a line above two of the side points can be regarded as a wooden chair. If it sees another chair made of metal without the back for example, it might consider that to be a wooden chair as well because it's similar enough and in that case the makers correct it's assumption and say it's a metal chair. Sure, it will start to think that all the chairs without the back are metal chairs, but if that's the case in their home, so what, it's right. If it understands anything wrong enough that it fails at its task it can always be corrected and its knowledge about the world as it sees it will increase. Now when performing tasks it can treat the chair as an abstract object, now that it can recognize it. It can memorize where it stands, it can learn to avoid it or push it or whatever, as long as humans correct its assumptions and choices. Now these abstractions could be abstracted even further. The idea is to let it do very simple things and then combine them into larger tasks, much like programmers think about and solve programming problems: If you want to solve a large problem and you don't know how to, you break it into smaller pieces until you get a piece, that is simple enough to be solved. You solve it and see the next piece. Then you combine the solutions to a solution to the bigger problem and you finally end up with the first and biggest problem getting solved. This robot 'learns' the exact opposite way.

    It seems to me that the biggest concern in this case is abstracting the objects it 'sees' into such a form, that they take minimal memory but can still be used in the recognition process.

    That came out as ranting. I have no knowledge in the subject and have no idea what I'm talking about but that should make this a good enough Slashdot comment.

    1. Re:Interesting by thegrassyknowl · · Score: 1

      I have no knowledge in the subject and have no idea what I'm talking about but that should make this a good enough Slashdot comment.

      You're going to fit in well here!

      --
      I drink to make other people interesting!
    2. Re:Interesting by SpinyNorman · · Score: 1

      Congrats on understanding what it takes to make a successful slashdot post.

      Commiserations on entirely failing to grok what this robot is all about.

      The key principle this robot uses to sense/model it's surroundings is what it's builders are calling "reification", which they've just published a book about. This is a way to bridge the divide between fuzzy (and semantically empty) sensory data and a symbolic (and semantically rich, if you choose to make it so) model of it's environment. The idea is simple (and simplistic) - you program the robot with the symbolic objects it needs to recognize and use to create it's world model, then train/program it to map from the salient aspects of it's fuzzy sensory (sonar) data to these built in objects.

      e.g. You laboriously hand analyse sonar sensory data from chairs, contrasting it to that from other objects, until you've identified one or more fuzzy sensory patterns that are unique to chairs. You than program the robot to detect these patterns and use them either individually or in combination to determine that it's seen the pre-programmed "chair" objects that it's got built-in knowledege about, and to place an instance of this chair object in it's internal symbolic model of it's environment at the appropriate place. Tada! You've bridged the sensory-symbolic divide (in a rather useless way)! The rest of your robot can now operate at the symbolic level of it's internal model and perform party tricks like fetching beer.

      Unfortunately this approach is very brittle - it's just like Cyc preprogramming a bunch of real world data into an AI system in the hope that you can gain intelligent behavior without doing the hard work of actually having to REALLY interface with the real world. It may help you build a workable commercial robot with a limited repertoire of capabilities and responses, but it's not going to help you build something that's able to learn for itself. It may be able to fetch a beer, but it's not going to take over the world, or for that matter even recognize that the "beer" it's brought you is actually a rusty tin of dog shit with the same sonar signature as a beer.

    3. Re:Interesting by Provocateur · · Score: 1

      Who wants it to take over the world? I can picture it coming in a box, some assembly required, then its first baby steps would be to learn the environment i.e. the household it'll work in: the couch. the fridge, the carbon based unit that will give it a 5 year mission or until the warranty expires, the domestic US beer it will leave in the fridge, and so on.

      The couple have got their priorities straight. With a smug rubbing of the hands, 'Now that the refreshments can be brought to us, what shall we work on next?' sort of thing.

      Can it be dressed up to look like Princess captive Leia from The Empire Strikes Back?

      --
      WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
    4. Re:Interesting by DigitalSorceress · · Score: 1

      According to the late Douglas Adams, a robot only needs the capacity to be bored or happy.

      Want it to get you beers? program it to be happy when delivering beer and bored when nobody needs one.

      Want it to guard your facility? program it to be bored when it hasn't got things to report and happy when it does. (works for making traffic cops too :p )

      Just be careful that someone doesn't throw a towel over its head and reprogram it to be happy all the time no matter what though.

      --

      The Digital Sorceress
    5. Re:Interesting by jgunders · · Score: 1

      You laboriously hand analyse sonar sensory data from chairs, contrasting it to that from other objects, until you've identified one or more fuzzy sensory patterns that are unique to chairs.

      Well, we actually don't laboriously hand code the percepts. We did for the first two or three, but now we let Basil build his own. He still requires some help, but he does most of the work. The dialog looks something like this:

      Basil: What is the name of this object?

      Human: round-table

      Basil: What class does it belong to?

      This is where basil connects the symbolic tag into his ontology. We give him a category to assign the new object to.

      Human: table

      Basil: What is the distance to the objects centroid?

      At present, Basil relies on us giving him the distance, rather than deriving it by rolling around the object

      Human: 1600mm

      Basil: What is the orientation of the object?

      Human: 0 brads (this is arbitrary)

      Basil then snaps about a hundred sonar snapshots, with small wiggles in between each snap. This addition of noise allows him to statistically analyze the profile.

      Basil: Is there more to see?

      If the object looks different from different angles, we present Basil with different views, and we can give him views at different ranges. Basil then takes all the data and builds a collection of templates that can be used to recognize this object.

      He also compares these templates to the existing templates to see if there are overlaps.

      As soon as this is done, Basil can recognize instances of this class of object, and add them to his mental model so that he knows where they are, and in what pose.

      You've bridged the sensory-symbolic divide (in a rather useless way)! The rest of your robot can now operate at the symbolic level of it's internal model and perform party tricks like fetching beer.

      I'm not sure that the bridge is useless, we have already shown that we get improved performance using the techniques, versus not bridging the divide. We are still collecting the data to show the benefits. But Basil is capable (with some assistance) to recognize that it has run into an object that it does not know about, and add a description of that object to its knowledge base. I totally agree that if the robot cannot learn, it isn't much more that a toy.

      It may be able to fetch a beer, but it's not going to take over the world, or for that matter even recognize that the "beer" it's brought you is actually a rusty tin of dog shit with the same sonar signature as a beer.

      However, your last point is dead on - if two objects have the same sonar signature, Basil cannot tell them apart. Of course, if two objects have identical signatures for a human's sensors, the human won't be able to tell them apart either.

      Jim

    6. Re:Interesting by SpinyNorman · · Score: 1

      It's interesting to hear a bit more about Basil - thanks for replying!

      Obviously it's much more convenient to have Basil be able to form his own sensory templates/discriminators, but you're still left with the limitations of a pre-programmed ontology, as well as having to supervise this object learning process - associating multiple views of the same object to the same symbolic class. I don't know what your future plans are, but you could add much flexibilty by using something like Jeff Hawkin's HTM as a sensory front end so that it Basil could, without supervision, form his own sensory categories that are invariant to orientation, scale, etc. This way Basil's categories become more dynamic, and he could autonomously aquire categories separate from being trained about their ontological mapping... You could have him direct the learning process by asking what something is once he's formed a new unmapped sensory category, or when he splits (due to further sensory exposure) an already mapped category into sub-categories (e.g. animal -> cat, dog).

      I was maybe being a bit unfair in calling this method of bridging the sensory-symbolic divide useless. It depends on what your goals are. What I really meant was that this isn't a path that will get you to a general purpose autonomous AI... But of course it's quite reasonable if you have shorter term commercial goals in mind, especially where having explicit (symbolically pre-programmed, even if flexibly invoked and executed) actions/behaviors is seen as a plus rather than a negative.

      The difference between Basil's and a humans ability to discriminate objects (beer vs not-a-beer) that may at first present similar sensory patterns is that the human has the ability to learn. The human would rapidly form a different category for something that had a different temperature, smell, etc than a cold beer, even if with limited exposure they initially had fallen into the same category due to visual similarity. Of course Basil could do the same with the right sensors and a more flexible HTM-like sensory front end, but the human is also going to be able to bring to bear experience it has aquired itself to figure out that this isn't a liquid at all since it's center-of-gravity desn't shift in the can as expected, and it's anyway disgusting and not worth trying due to the smell... This is where the real limitations of the sensory mapping to pre-coded symbolic approach come in; you're always going to be in "Cyc" territory (a grand experiment, but apparently very little to show for it) of having to hard code all of this stuff and therefore be brittle as a result. Of course you could eventually try to autonomously aquire symbolic rules to augment/modify/delete it's built-in knowledge, but it's not obvious that would fundamentally be any different.

    7. Re:Interesting by jgunders · · Score: 1
      Thanks for the feedback.

      The concept of "general purpose intelligence" is slippery; heck the definition of intelligence is pretty loose. I totally agree that learning is critical, and Basil is actually setup to modify his own ontology based on his analysis of his experiences. At the moment, he does only the simplest of modifications (adjusting his estimates of probabilities based on his episodic memory of past experiences), but the structure is in place to add new nodes into the ontology, add new relationships, and modifiy the strength terms on the relationships.

      Basil does ask for assistance on new objects, and we give him our take on the links into the ontology, but we are far from the point where Basil can deduce the proper connections to make for a internally generated symbolic tag. But I haven't seen a lot of functional examples of systems that do that effectively. One of our guiding principles is that if we don't have experimental data (i.e., we built and tested it) we can't claim to have solved it - regardless of how elegant the theory is.

      We looked extensively at the Cyc experiment, and came to very much the same conclusions as you have, especially about the need for external input. We use what we call a rough ontology (emphasis on local consistency, rather than global, and a decay mechanism in propogation) it seems to have several benefits for our uses. There is a much more detailed discussion in our book (shameless plug) "Robots, Reasoning, and Reification". But the general model is not based on a theoretical formal logic based model, rather it is based on the neurophysiology of brains.

      I have to point out that we are not targeting a human level intelligence. We're aiming more at the level of a cattle dog, or a smart Australian Shepard. When confronting a can of beer, they're not going to reason about the dynamic center of mass, but they will notice the gurgle. They won't lay out a reasoned set of experiments, but they will (probably) end up biting a hole in the can and lapping up the beer. If we can reach that level of 'intelligence' we'll be happy campers.

      Jim

    8. Re:Interesting by SpinyNorman · · Score: 1

      Achieving the intelligence of a dog would certainly be a major accomplishment, but to be honest I don't think this type of architecture is ever going to be intelligent, anymore than Cyc achieved it.

      I think you need to make the distinction between intelligence and cognitive/reasoning ability. General purpose symbolic reasoning ability - manipulating a set of knowledge and rules to solve problems - is easy enough and is a long-solved problem (e.g. Allen Newell's SOAR). Cyc just added a massive knowledge/rule base. This type of system is really nothing more than an expert system, albeit one with a broad domain. Ask it to solve a problem (e.g. "provide wife with tea") within it's capabilities and it performs fine, but nobody would confuse this with intelligence - it's just canned knowledge.

      The major prerequisite for intelligence that is missing from a cognitive engine / expert system is the abiliy to learn, and I believe this is such a core requirement that you can't treat it as a bolt-on (symbolic) capability, not that it wouldn't be an interesting experiment to see how far you could get by trying that. Cyc was surely stymied by not being embodied and therefore not interacting with the world and having anything to learn from, although I'm not sure if they ever made any attempt to learn via experience as opposed to via comprehension.

    9. Re:Interesting by jgunders · · Score: 1

      As I said, I totally agree that an intelligent system needs to be able to learn, so I'm with you there. I'm not sure that the use of an ontology prevents a system from learning. Perhaps I'm missing what you are saying.

      Given that the system can both reason from its knowledge base, and modify that knowledge base from its experiences; wouldn't that fit your working definition of an intelligent system? If so, there doesn't seem to be anything in the nature of an ontology that would prevent it from meeting that requirement. Certainly, the ontology that we are using as the semantic memory in the cybernetic brain is modifiable by the system in response to experiences.

      One of the reasons we reduce all our theories to functional software/hardware is that it can expose unanticipated issues in the design, so perhaps if you could suggest a concrete example, we could explore the strengths and weaknesses of the model we are implementing?

      Jim

  22. But, does it run... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But, does it run Lin.... uh, oops. Nevermind ;-}

  23. Is Zappa a Warner artist? by macraig · · Score: 1
    1. Re:Is Zappa a Warner artist? by Ronald+Dumsfeld · · Score: 1

      Listen to the song, Zappa wants to sell his soul to the devil for his titties and beer...

      Devil: Listen fool, you've got to prove to me that you're rough Enough to get into hell, That you've got the style enough to get into hell, So start talkin'...
      Zappa:Alright, lemme tell ya somethin'
      Devil: Alright!
      Zappa: I'll prove to you that I'm bad enough to go to hell
      Devil: Yeah!
      Zappa: Because I have been through it!
      Devil: Yeah!
      Zappa: I have seen it!
      Devil: Yeah!
      Zappa: It has happened to me!
      Devil: Yeah!
      Zappa: Remember, I was signed with Warner Brothers For eight fuckin' years!!!


      So, fortunately, this clip will not be coming down.

      --
      Where's the Kaboom?
      There's supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom.
    2. Re:Is Zappa a Warner artist? by macraig · · Score: 1

      That ain't the version I seem to recall hearing on Dr. Demento decades ago....

  24. Basil?! by whopub · · Score: 2, Funny

    I hope it isn't fawlty...

    1. Re:Basil?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Âque?

    2. Re:Basil?! by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      The idea of letting such a machine near me with an (unopened) can of beer fills me with mild but slowly waning interest (unlike my Roomba, which is going to get let loose on the living room as I go out of the door this morning).
      The idea of letting such a machine near me with a nice fresh pot of scalding hot tea fills me with an acute and strengthening desire to be somewhere else.

      I suspect that naming it "Basil" is a sign that the inventors harbour such misgivings too. Have they tried to sell it to McDonalds yet?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  25. European beer Made in USA by mangu · · Score: 1

    Unless it can swim to Europe Hows it going to obey a command to fetch a REAL beer?

    Haven't you heard? The largest American brewer IS European now.

    1. Re:European beer Made in USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      umm if they have to fpllow Europen labelling laws then the term 'American Beer' will have to be replaced by Piss Flavored Water.

    2. Re:European beer Made in USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'American Beer' will have to be replaced by Piss Flavored Water

      Newflash: some (a lot) of people drink beer for the sole reason of getting drunk. The drinkability (after all, what is easier to drink than water?) and low prices are all that matter to them. It's kind of like American cars.

    3. Re:European beer Made in USA by fnorky · · Score: 1

      No, the largest American brewer is Boston Beer Company, makers of Samuel Adams. That other stuff is no longer American.

  26. Doesn't have to be that good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "He'll have to figure it all out on his own, using a basic knowledge of bars and beers and so on, reasoning skills and an ability to understand certain parts of the world"

    After 1 a.m., just about any success rate would be >= mine.

  27. How long will it take... by kovari · · Score: 1

    ... for one of the Connors to drop by?

  28. I can see it now... by Chemisor · · Score: 2, Funny

    Go east, to a place called Klamath. K-l-a-m-a-t-h. Find Vic. V-i-c. Ask for beer. B-e-e-r. *sigh* You are the chosen one. Find the beer. Be our salvation.

  29. Not as simple as it sounds by Whuffo · · Score: 0
    Sounds like a great idea. It's such a good idea that researchers and inventors have been working at it for years - and at this point are still just obtaining some insight into how difficult the problems are.

    Consider this: when we use language, the meaning of what we want to communicate is not contained in the words we use. They're just symbols that we use to refer to shared knowledge. So if I say "cat" then you already know about the small mammal that many of us keep as pets. Or maybe this refers to a shell command? Or maybe a piece of earth moving equipment? So it's not just the symbols, it's the context they're used in. To recognize the context you need to understand "cat" and the surrounding symbols as a whole.

    We use "common sense" to decode those language symbols; it's based on what we've learned about the world we live in, and takes years to accumulate - for us, who are exquisitely well equipped to observe and learn. Without that background of shared knowledge to decode the symbols then language is just noise. I could say "murf blayt noksy" and while it might have meaning to me it's not likely to mean anything to you. Now consider the poor robot: he's expected to understand what we want and perform useful tasks - but even the first step of understanding what we want is far, far beyond what we can provide a machine with.

    For now, the various artificial intelligence demonstrations are mostly artificial. Sure, this thing can be programmed to drive over to the bar and bring back a "beer". But that's only after humans have programmed these limited functions - regardless of what the marketing people may want you to believe. And it's all very cute, but if the bartender puts a grenade on the robot's head the robot will happily carry the grenade back to the customer. It knows nothing about "beer".

    The "invention" here seems to be that the robot can navigate to locations that have a sonar "image" that matches one that it's been programmed to recognize and it's been given a "speech pattern" to trigger programmed behavior based on a sound that matches that stored speech template. Nothing new here; we were playing with ultrasonic sensors twenty years ago and even Windows comes with a rudimentary (but good enough for this demo) speech recognition engine.

    With a dozen "customers" sitting in the room this thing wouldn't be able to find the right one. And all it's going to the "bar" for is something with weight. This is nothing but a marketing demo and even if they do scare up some investors the promised technology will remain out of reach.

    Read more about how hard this stuff is at http://www.cyc.com/

  30. ..their autonomous robot, Basil... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does he slap Manuel, hit his car with a branch, and NOT MENTION THE WAR?

  31. wants_beer = 1 by jamesh · · Score: 2, Funny

    And he knows that, in this case, that person wants a beer.

    That's a simple algorithm:

    if (object == person)
        wants_beer = 1;

    Sure there is going to be some margin of error in that algorithm, but it's going to be right most of the time.

    1. Re:wants_beer = 1 by w0mprat · · Score: 1

      Nuh uh! You should express that as a global constant.

      people_want_beer=1

      Because we don't want some smart ass java parsing tin can second guessing us do we?

      --
      After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
  32. Re:Java? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure in no time it will be up on the Sun.com home page as an example of the "great success" of Java.

  33. we love male-bashing by Velex · · Score: 1

    When they brought him out for their recent wedding anniversary party, for example, they turned off his higher-level brain and had him dance around by dumbly bouncing from one lady to the next -- the way most guys function on the dance floor.

    Was the quip after the EM dash really necessary? Now, I know that most women have experience with outlaw bikers, but there are a lot of decent guys out there. The problem is they're not outlaw bikers.

    --
    Join the Slashcott! Stay away entirely Feb 10 thru Feb 17! Close all tabs to prevent autorefresh!
    1. Re:we love male-bashing by FTWinston · · Score: 1

      Of course it was. Its not sexism if its males being bashed! sigh...

  34. I hope they remembered by schnitzi · · Score: 1

    I hope they remembered to program in the Laws of Service Robotics:
          1. A robot may not damage a beer or, through inaction, allow a beer to come to harm.
          2. A robot must obey beer orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
          3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

    --



    I object to that article, and to the next reply.
  35. What a difference a few chars makes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At first I read that as "Denver couple unveils homicide service robot".

    Now that would be an achievement.

  36. NOOOOT FAAAAAKE! by d3ac0n · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't think there's anyway to distinguish what sort've material an object is made of with just sound.

    Modern military-grade sonar can EASILY tell materials just by the sound quality bounceback. So can whales, dolphins, bats and pretty much any creature with ears, including humans.

    Try this: Walk into an empty room with sheetrock walls and a wood floor and clap your hands. Now do it in a similar room with a tile floor and wood paneling on the walls. Now an all-concrete cinderblock room. You will notice that, even though the source sound is the same (your hands clapping) the return sound has a different quality in each room. However, the sound quality in a single room will always be the same, regardless of the number of claps you make.

    Now try it blindfolded, and see if you can differentiate the rooms. You will be able to, unless you are hearing-impaired in some manner.

    It's the same principle with the robot. Once taught about an item, it can continue to identify the item even though it can't "see" it.

    --
    Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
  37. Wouldn't it be more like... by dlaudel · · Score: 2, Funny

    Wouldn't it be more like "sudo get me a beer"?

  38. scientists + beer by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

    What do you get when you mix a room full of scientists and beer? A VERY smart robot with the wheels falling off.

    A little while ago, one of Basil's wheels fell off and they had to glue the sucker back on.

    http://www.cafescientifique.org/

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
  39. A few points about Basil by jgunders · · Score: 1
    A couple of quick points, based on some of the comments:

    1) Basil is an autonomous robot, not a tele-operated system. The robot has a fully functional probability-aware planning system, execution monitor, and a reification engine that maps between symbolic representations and the sensor domain. This enables us to give Basil a goal, and let the robot figure out how best to achieve it. Basil then executes the plan and monitors the results, so he can re-plan if things go wrong.

    2) The sonars cannot tell the difference between wood and metal. Basil's ontology has representations for two types of chairs, 'short-wheeled-chairs', and the 'wooden-chairs'. The shape of the chairs allow the robot to tell them apart, and the robot uses the semantic label for the type of chair he recognizes.

    3) The voice is generated using the FreeTTS text to speech package, and there are sentence templates for things like "I see the I expected to see approximately centimeters away."

    4) Basil is not a Dalek - Daleks are wide at the bottom and narrow at the top to provide stability during combat. Basil is wide at the top to provide room for more beer.

    Hope this clears a few things up.
    Jim

    1. Re:A few points about Basil by RoboChief_209_13 · · Score: 1

      Basil is also weaponless, currently (unless you have VERY sensative hearing).

  40. So this robot rolls into a bar.... by markana · · Score: 1

    - but you've heard this one before...

  41. Semantic Tags by jgunders · · Score: 2, Informative
    Yes, 'wooden-chair' is a label. When the robot is mapping from the sensor domain to the semantic the result of the recognition is the label. So any label would do. Once the semantic tag is selected, along with the position and pose of the object, it is added to the 'mental model'; the robot keeps track of the things that it has identified, and where they are. If Basil stopped here, as you said, any label would do.

    However, when the robot is given a goal ("deliver tea to the conference-table-area") the mental model is used to generate a symbolic representation of the world-as-it-is, along with the representation of the world-as-it-is-desired. At this point, the tag "wooden-chair" is used to extract information from the semantic memory (an ontology of facts and behaviors) and the linkages in the ontology allow Basil to reason about chairs with respect to the current goal. So he knows that chairs are generally stationary - they stay put, as opposed to people who move on their own; he knows that wheeled-chairs can be pushed out of the way, but the wooden-chairs can't, and that people can be asked to move, but chairs can't.

    So at this point the label begins to be less arbitrary since it is now embedded in a complex knowledge structure. If we gave the chair the label 'battleship' (and if we had information about battleships in the ontology), Basil would generate different behaviors with respect to the object.

    The classification scheme is fairly simple - primarily because his sensor modalities are thin. He builds a set of representations (classic pattern based templates) and uses these for both recognition and preafference (projecting what the world should look like).

    When he is learning a new object, he checks to see if the patterns are mutually exclusive or if two or more objects can be classified from the same sensor data. If there is no way to distinguish between two classes, he reports both as possibles. These get loaded into the mental model and as he gets more views of the object the winnows down the possibilities.

    So he is using multiple time and space separated views and 'thing constancy' as a principle to help him classify. There is a whole lot more detail in our book.

    Basil is designed to learn from his experiences. He maintains a complete episodic memory at present. The task for the next year is to enable him to analyze these memories and generate new sensor representations, to subdivide existing representations, and to add new facts to his semantic memory. The tools that we will use will be a mix of standard machine learning techniques along with a technique that Louise developed for environments where not all features are salient to the classification.

    Jim Jim

  42. Sure beer is cool... by RoboChief_209_13 · · Score: 1

    ... but can it sing and dance? Mostly sing... Sing Daisy Basil...