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Comcast Facing Lawsuit Over Set-Top Box Rentals
Multichannel News reports that a woman from California has initiated a potential class-action lawsuit against Comcast for making customers rent a set-top box without giving them the option to buy it outright. Quoting:
"The action, on behalf of Comcast Corp. customer Cheryl Corralejo, alleges that the set-top rental practice represents an 'unlawful tying arrangement resulting in an impermissible restraint of trade.' In addition to violating the Sherman Anti-Trust Act, the suit alleges the practice violates business and professions codes. ... [It also notes] that premium video and the set-top descramblers are two distinct products, yet the cable providers require that the hardware be rented from cable companies, rather than permitting consumers to purchase the set-top hardware in the open market.
they'll still tie you to their service; and then they can ask a ridiculous price for the box.
It's a shame CableCard never caught on - then companies like TiVO could have offered a viable alternative to a set top box. Yes, I realize I'd pay an additional monthly fee; but Tivo2go is worth it to me. Plus; real competition might force cable companies to offer similar products for less.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
CableCARD exists. TiVos use it. The failure of it to take over has nothing to do with the open market. It's because cable is not an open market. CableCARD was forced on the cable companies by the FCC and they didn't want it, so they responded by doing the worst possible job in supporting it.
Friends who have TiVos mention having to wait almost two weeks for a CableCARD "install" where a guy shows up with a card and just puts it in your TiVo. When they easily could have just given you the card on the spot.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
The solution is very simple. If you don't want to rent the box then don't subscribe to the service. DUH! There are plenty of other options out there such as IPTV, Dish, and DirecTV.
"The action, on behalf of Comcast Corp. customer Cheryl Corralejo"
.. :)
.. one of the attorneys in the California case also filed the Meeds case"
.. I think it's understandable for Comcast to want to rent boxes as, if the end-users buy directly from the media providers, what's in it for Comcast. Streaming Media is a huge hog of bandwidth, as the ISPs in the UK are discovering with the iPlayer and other services. The ISPs and the content providers are currently in disagreement as to who should pay to upgrade the network infrastructure ..
I wonder just who she is fronting for? reading on
"the claim is nearly identical to one filed on behalf of Missouri consumer Matthew Meeds
Aw, go on
davecb5620@gmail.com
I was a happy user of a cable card (M-Card) from Comcast until just recently. I just switched to Verizon FIOS and am using their cable cards now. No problems installing with either company so yes, they are offering them. Neither knows what an M-Card (multistream cable card) is when you call although Comcast installers had them.
This doesn't address the point here though as both providers require you to rent the cable cards. Even if you already own one, you cannot use it with their network unless you are renting it from them. Ok, so the cards rent at a lesser fee, neither company here will sell it to me. A card is just a smaller box in this regard.
several problems with "open market" set tops and CableCards.
1) Cable Providers download code to the settops to ensure that they are receiving the correct channels and decrypt properly. Cable companies cannot support 3rd party equipment, so if an 'open market' settop box cannot handle the code, then ... the consumer is screwed. However, if the consumer is using a supplied box, then it is 100% supported by the cable company, if the box cant handle the code, than the cable company takes care of it.
2) about CableCARD.
CableCard is not a '2way' device. it only receives cable singles, and cannot send. This is why they are severly limited with service. Most 'Digital Cable' providers have a lot of switched services to save bandwidth and ensure quality services for Each customer. switched services require a return path from the customers equipment so they can in turn be sent the feed the customer is tuning too.
Since CableCards do not send a return, any channel or service sent via some sort of digital broadcast is out of the question. Thanks to Cable Card, just like the Paten system, its another way to limit innovation, by keeping technology in the past.
my 2 cents
... if it weren't such a piece of shit.
Comcast needs to demand that their box manufacturer let a real geek program the box and shoot the managers (though I would really much more prefer that they suffer a horrible lingering painful death) that try to interfere.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
What the hell, this isn't interesting, it's funny. Moderators these days...
Disconnect and self-destruct, one bullet at a time.
To the extent that any agreement between the cable provider and the manufacturer prevents the sale of the box directly to the public, there is a violation going on. Comcast is not in the business of selling hardware, so they should not be required to do the selling. But they must not be allowed to interfere with the selling of such boxes by any means. The manufacturer must sell them to anyone willing to buy in the minimum quantity they will sell (e.g. at least as many as the smallest cable company has bought), and Comcast must allow them to work on their system at the same pricing structure, minus the rental costs. That doesn't mean Joe Consumer gets to walk in to the cable company office and buy one, or the manufacturer office and buy one. But if a retailer wants to make a bulk purchase of these from the manufacturer, the manufacturer must sell them at the same pricing and quantities they sell to cable companies, and the cable companies that support this box technology on their systems must allow them to work (if they are Cable-Card based, then they must support it, but if they rent the same box, they must support the purchased ones, too).
Personally, I'd rather rent ... especially considering the failure rates going on (at least half my neighbors have had to get them replaced at least once). However, the boxes Comcast offers are a piece of shit ... so we need some kind of
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
...the congress should change the law to prohibit any infrastructure provider from also selling service over that infrastructure. If the cable, telephone, electric, etc. utility plants were required to be run as an independent, stand alone business from the content provided (electrical generation, content sourcing, telecommunication connection backend) there would be fewer tying problems.
Now, that said, there might still be other issues over interfaces and who's problem it is when things break, but physical connections are pretty easy to check.
I see it like the long distance telecom market. 30 years ago you had Ma Bell. You paid through the nose for anything you wanted. Then deregulation came to being, and as a result the long distance market - since it was content only and no infrastructure - became a seriously competitive area. We went from $0.25/min, minimum, for any LD call to a couple of cents a minute, and the price has been pretty stable.
Unfortunately, the "government is bad" mantra we've been fed by the right misses the point that standardization (open, IP unencumbered - or at least compulsory licensed) is good for consumers. Sure NTSC wasn't great, but it WORKED, for everyone. ATSC was an absolute abortion, and was the result of the FCC having no backbone whatsoever.
Unfortunately, we need more regulation of telecom, not less, but it needs to be GOOD regulation. Invalidation of all local monopoly contracts would be a good start. If you keep these companies from dipping their fingers into all the pies, you'll find they will play much better. They will kick and scream and throw money at lobbiests, but the best solution is a fixed standard. Hell, the gov't might as well commandeer IP for the purpose - the common good, you might say.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
They have the same policy. The fact that I could not purchase an IBM z10 mainframe was the reasons I chose not to sign.
No really, I have to wonder why IBM is not guilty, when they control 90% of the mainframe market and force you to rent the mainframe from them, with no option for purchase. Is this not a violation of the Sherman act?
Palm trees and 8
So far so good with my CableCard. Didn't have to wait 2 weeks, called them on Weds and they were here Friday. Now having said that, least here in California, Comcast won't let you install them yourself. I looked on their Web siteand then called them (the local office and the 1-800 number) the answer was the same "We have to do it". After watching the tech do the install, just to make sure I wasn't missing anything, I was pissed. It took him 40 mins, 35 of it was being stuck on hold with the office to get the thing activated. He did absolutely nothing extra that someone who can read couldn't do. I mean I could have down this, anyone could have if they had a 6th grade education, why did you have to roll a tech out to do this....cause its the cable company. Seriously, I kinda hope this case shines some light on Comcast, TimeWarner and their ilk.
Yes, Comcast is already trying to screw us in our area.
http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/315949.aspx
Many of the currently-installed CableCards probably could handle SDV just as well as the cable company's boxes do for the simple reason that many of today's CableCards are bi-directional/two-way. The problem you've run into is that TiVo is unwilling to make a two-way device so your TiVo is using the 2-way card for only 1-way traffic.
Not that I blame TiVo -- the company that owns the patent rights needed to make a CableCard device has been unwilling to grant licenses for any 2-way device that doesn't limit the user to a GUI designed by and downloaded from whatever cable company it's talking to. So TiVo had implemented a 2-way device (to make full use of the 2-way CableCards being installed) you wouldn't need Cox's Tuning Adapter but your TiVo would work and look on-screen exactly like one of Cox's own cable boxes. If you're like most people who bought a TiVo you bought it because of the way it works and not just to avoid paying a monthly rental to the cable company.
I used to work with TiVo and I must admit, if you guys think the cablecards were frustrating for you to get working, imagine the TiVo techs that had to get phone calls about those cards constantly (past tense since I used to work for them that is) and then proceed to actually call Comcast or insert random cable company here and tell them that they were legally bound to activate and support those cards when they were outright refusing to give those cards to their customers. It was a serious pain in any TiVo HD tech's rear.
I think it's outright silly that cable companies lie to their customers saying "Oh sorry we can't give you those" only to back down the moment someone at TiVo had to call them to yell. I could not tell you the amount of times I sat on the phone with Comcast (with a TiVo customer) for 2 hours on end trying to get the poor guy's cards activated, or in some cases even sent to them.
Personally this post doesn't have a lot of use, but I thought I'd give you an insight on the poor TiVo techs hassle with the stupid cablecards and the cable companies horrid adoption of them.
My Charter HD box has an M-Card plugged into the back of it. It doesn't look like CableCARD is dead at all - it's just that they don't want you to use any set-top box other than their own.
U-Verse is absolutely horrid.