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Study Abroad For Computer Science Majors?
sbilstein writes "I'm currently a sophomore studying computer science with a penchant for international travel. While I do realize that the internet precludes the need for us geeks to travel farther than our desks, I'd still like to take a few courses taught in English or Spanish (the two languages I'm fluent in) somewhere outside of the country. The trouble is I can't go to just any school, because like any other engineering degree, I have to take technical courses every semester. So I need a school with a something at least similar to a computer science program in the states. Has anybody here from the US studied abroad while doing computer science? Was it worthwhile? Or anyone from outside the United States recommend a university program?"
Come on? Isn't is obvious? Go for a semester in Spain. In Europe we do have real computer science courses. Northern America doesn't have a monopoly on that (And never had, if you think that you need to learn a bit history). Remember, Dijkstra was Dutch, Linus was Finnish and Alan Turing was British.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Have you asked your school? Most schools have a study abroad office dedicated directly to this. Some schools even have a program setup specifically for certain majors paired up with other universities.
You could also look at a Maymester or Summer program. It would let you travel while not having to take a semester off from school.
because like any other engineering degree, I have to take technical courses every semester
I was unaware of this 'requirement' at my school. As long as I got X classes done by graduation they didn't care when I took it.
I don't ever remember this in my
Linus was Finnish
Was? Did I miss the obituary?
Not quite. In my university (Uppsala, Sweden) for example, most higher level courses are taught in English, the teachers and students are fluent in English, and there is a vibrant international community. The computer science program here is not bad, but I'd say it really doesn't matter... going abroad for a term or two will give you friends and contacts for life, invaluable experience and a much, much more attractive CV. So, just go for it!
(Shameless plug: studying at swedish universities is totally free, except for a nominal 40$ students union fee =)
Nothing in the english/spanish world has the same opportunities in CS as the US, with few exceptions.
Which leads into my question: where is he currently studying? If the answer is MIT then your exceptions, the big names in Europe, - Oxbridge; Imperial College, London; Complutense de Madrid - are options. If it's somewhere no-one outside his state has heard of, the suitable suggestions are considerably different.
India was my first thought also. Not only is turnabout fair play, but you're going to need the culture exposure and contacts if you hope to get a job in computer science.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
... Edinburgh, Imperial College, or perhaps Manchester (they have one of the earliest electronic computer, still in working order). There's also Canada -- Waterloo has a renowned engineering program.
Not sure if Cambridge does exchange programs, but if you're abroad for a year instead of a semester, their Part II CS tripos is quite gruelling; it's basically a complete undergrad education done in one year, usually taken by people who already have a degree in related fields (e.g. math or physics).
In the UK, my rule of thumb is: if they teach a functional language then they are decent. Edinburgh is where Standard ML was written (and Phil Wadler is in the faculty) -- oh, and is really good for Artificial Intelligence research too, so naturally, they're quite heavily into Prolog too. Cambridge also uses ML; York uses Scheme and Haskell. Warwick -- ML, I guess.
There's also the location to consider. Imperial is in London -- good place to be, but accomodation might be tough. Edinburgh is in, well, Edinburgh -- lovely place, a bit cold in winter, but not as bad as the northern parts of the US. York is on the east coast line, so it's less than three hours from either London or Edinburgh by fast train. Warwick, despite the name, is not in the quaint mediaeval town of Warwick, but in nearby Coventry (they obviously thought naming it the University of Coventry would not be good for business). Not far from London and Birmingham, though.
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
I'm in a similar position to you, actually. For me, I realized that by working hard I could pretty much finish my degree requirements by the end of my third year of school (which I will do). So, that left me with two "open" semesters in my Senior year that I'm going to use to finish up general college requirements, take more advanced CS classes. While it seems like it's impossible to finish all of those requirements, it's actually not that difficult I think. The reason that this is important is that you probably shouldn't expect to get credit to transfer back for technical courses you do abroad and instead use it as an opportunity to fulfill those liberal arts requirements if you have any.
The next bit of advice I have is to talk with your professors in your department and ask for their recommendations. At my school, the director of undergraduate curricula is the one that was most helpful to me, so maybe you could try to talk to an equivalent at your school. He or she will not only be familiar with the undergraduate requirements for CS, they'll probably also be the one who will be able to approve or reject credit you receive abroad as it applies to filling your major requirements. Additionally, they will probably know about other students from your school who have studied abroad before.
Ok, to answer your question about actual programs abroad, here are some places. To be fair, in the end I decided (for the time being anyway) not to study abroad for personal reasons. Anyway, my school (UNC-Chapel Hill) has a study abroad program particularly for CS majors between us and UCL (University College of London). Oftentimes even if a study abroad program is not offered at your university, you can arrange to do a program through another university, so if you're interested in this particular one let me know and I can get you more information. Additionally, I was considering and know friends who have gone to National University of Singapore, which also has a strong CS college.
My bigger point is this: don't expect too much out of study abroad from an academic point of view. There's just so much complication between different teaching systems, credit transfers, and potentially different languages that you're better off approaching it as an opportunity to learn things completely different than your normal semester's fare in the CS dept. Good luck!
'Every story, if continued long enough, ends in death.' --Ernest Hemingway
Yes, I was there. (no, not there, but over there!)
Linus and RMS got into a fight, and RMS pulled out his katana....*shudder* ...and well, now Linus is sleeping with the penguins.
RMS was last seen rounding up the HURD to assault Antarctica to exterminate those pesky, compromising, commie penguins.
Wait! What?!?
Wow, those are some good med's the doctor gave me, nevermind!
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
Edinburgh University has a very strong Computer Science Course, plus it is in a great city, I know a lot of US people how have studied at edinburgh for a year so it shouldn't be a problem. :)
If you have never visited Scotland then you are missing out. Lets start with the important things. The drinking age is 18
And yet, he'd have a million problems getting the Spanish credits accepted back in the US. Not to mention all the fun of big classes, teachers that don't care, tests designed to make people fail, and an outdated curriculum.
I actually moved to the US after seeing the awful world of Spanish state universities. Some foreigners enjoy themselves in classes designed mostly for them, but for core courses? It always ends up being a mistake.
He could try SLU's Madrid Campus, an American university in Spain, but I don't think they offer enough CS classes to make it worthwhile, unless he's already expecting to 'waste' a semester.
Pragmatically, India might not be the best place to study because of how many people there already speak English. That's not to say learning one of India's languages won't be useful, or that the cultural aspects aren't worth learning (personally, when I get up to the main campus of my university, I have every intention of taking the Hindi course), but if you're doing it for your career, unless you're really into India (or you're just a language freak like me), you'd probably be better off learning something else.
Full disclosure - I am an NTU alumnus.
Just to add, the famed IITs (Indian Institute of Technologies) do have exchange programs. But the living conditions in most IITs will not suit (you might call them appalling by US college standards) most americans. So choose the institute properly (IIT delhi, e.g., might be a better choice than IIT Kharagpur). But, yes, India will be a good economical choice. And almost all institutes in India have english as their medium of teaching, so language won't be a problem at all.
PS: I am from IIT Kharagpur.
Has anybody here from the US studied abroad while doing computer science? Was it worthwhile? Or anyone from outside the United States recommend a university program?
I have a BS in CS and I studied abroad for a year in London. However, I didn't take a single class relevant to my degree. When I left for London, I needed 2 CS classes to graduate. Basically, I transferred to another school, took their (awesome) study abroad program. Lived with a host family. Networked with people from all over Europe. Had the best time of my life. And met my French fiancee.
I more than doubled my student debt to do it (it's not cheap) but it was worth it. I didn't care about not having a CS class though I did well in all the classes I did take. I also joined the Rugby (Union) team of my college. Damn, it was a great time. I love Jolly Old London (Twickenham technically).
I'd recommend doing it. Heck, if you even have to ask, then I think you're probably wanting it enough that you should do it.
It has nothing to do with that you learn in the class room and everything about what you experience. Some of the best courses I had where the History courses offered at my England college.
Don't study abroad to take CS courses. Study abroad to experience a different culture and meet new people. Even if it's just an American in London, there's a lot to learn.
Even if it means, basically, taking a semester or year off of your normal course work to do it. Just know that it isn't cheap and that it's really something you want to do. I've seen several people on my study abroad program who did it and clearly didn't want to do it and wasted the entire trip crying in their bedrooms over missing boy/girlfriends.
Bon Chance!
ps. Know what you're looking for when studying abroad. Is it just a location? Or do you really want to integrate into the host country? Many programs out there are nothing but a school of Americans, secluded in an area, and you don't get much integration into the country. If you're reasonable good in a 2nd language consider a country with that a primary language. If you're not, fear not to go to an English speaking school (England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Australia, New Zealand, etc.)
Don't study abroad if you're trying to focus on school work. That's NOT what it's about. Stay in the States and focus on your classes and your grades if that's what matters. You study abroad to experience life in a different place. Take classes that will expand on this experience. You don't want to be stuck in a computer lab for 40 hours a week to finish a programming project, when you can see the Tower de Eiffel from your window, kind of thing.
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth." ~1984 George Orwell
I'm a senior CS student at Rice University who studied abroad the first semester of my sophomore year. The hoops you have to jump through to study abroad are worth it.
You probably don't really need to take technical courses every semester: there may be a light one with courses you can put off. I had to take a 3 week summer course and adjust my schedule a bit, but I made it to Florence, Italy for a semester. If you absolutely cannot go abroad for a full semester, do a summer program or go after you graduate (I knew a kid who graduated, then still went abroad for the experience).
Decide what school you want to go to based on whether you want to experience the culture or drink. A lot of the schools built for studying abroad have people who just go abroad to drink. I was at one of those schools although I would've liked more cultural things and less drinking. It's up to you.
I took no technical courses while abroad. I actually fulfilled a number of university requirements (arts and social sciences).
Make sure you clear all the courses you're going to take with your advisor: they should know you might be taking a semester off of CS. Make sure that you also get any classes you want to transfer approved beforehand. Get signatures.
(It may actually be cheaper to go abroad if you're currently going to a private school. If you have scholarships, some of them may pay for you to go abroad)
If you can't find some time to go, you don't want it bad enough. Feel free to contact me if you have any more specific questions.
--<Mike>--
There is no comma in "Imperial College London", yes it is silly but then so was Sykes (rector when the college was rebranded).
You'd probably have less chance than studying a broad in the USA. Just find yourself one of the "top 10" party universities, and DON'T TELL THEM YOU'RE A CS STUDENT!!!
Kevin Smith on Prince
lived and worked in London for just over a year; this was not my experience. talking about subways and (street) blocks got me no end of odd looks. not to mention the confusion over what it meant to table something. at least one friend got herself into a rather awkward situation upon announcing to a random guy in a bar that she didn't like to wear pants (she preferred skirts). the confusion was entirely bi-directional: it took me quite a while to figure out what a skip was, and was reduced to a stammer when a female co-worker asked me for a rubber (i eventually handed her an elastic band).
i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
international travel would be a great way to realize how incredibly false this is. more likely than not, at some point you're going to end up doing something other than simply coding widgets from a spec (or from imagination). as soon as that happens, you need the experience that comes from getting away from your desk; preferably far away from your desk. on the mundane level, you'll almost certainly have to do something like turn customer requirements into specs and/or code; understanding the mindset of the person you're talking to is crucial there. or you might find yourself working with engineers in, or educated in, another country; again, understanding their mindset will make that go much better.
beyond that, there's lots of good suggestions here. personally, i like the ones that take you outside your standard course work, even if it costs you an extra semester or two, but if you're bound and determined to do it all in an academic context, just ask your school; any sizable US school will have administration folks who can tell you what your best options are.
i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
That was rather naive. You demand that no generalizations are made about the similarity of the UK and EU educational systems because you don't know enough yourself to tell the difference?
Duh!
According to the Eurpean Credit Transfer and accumulation System (ECTS - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Credit_Transfer_and_Accumulation_System ) you can very well take classes in the UK and have the credits transferred. Usually, the English credits transfer 2:1, while the Scottish credits have a little different evaluation.
Most of Europe however IS enforcing the ECTS and as such, studies abroad should be no problem for most.
On the graduate level (Masters degree), classes are usually taught in english, regardless of country.
If you wish to specialize in Artificial Intelligence, I can recommend Reykjavik University ( http://www.ru.is/ ). The A.I. department has won the last two international generic game playing agent contests and has a full house of very respectable professionals. The head of the Computer Science department is a former NASA employee and the others are no less.
And it adds value that the Icelandic Krona is so deflated that it's probably cheaper to study here than even in eastern Europe :P
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I don't post very often, but I felt compelled to reply to this one because of the profoundly positive effect that a study abroad program had on me. I did my final year of a BS in Physics abroad at the University of Bath in the UK. The U of Bath is a smallish, selective school that is primarily technical in nature. It might be comparable to, say, CalTech. While I can say that the focus of the program there was substantially different from the program at my home university, (Purdue), it was also an excellent program. I knew a couple people there who were studying CS. From what I heard about it, it seemed to be a good program also. The U of Bath has lots of international programs, so the typical international student will be living with people from all over the place. In the immediate proximity of my residence where people from France, Germany, Sudan, Korea, UAE, Belgium, Mexico, Spain, Italy, Argentina, Russia, Ukraine, Greece, and Hungary. (Those are just the ones that I remember.) Having gone to a few different Universities for different purposes over the years, I can say that the biggest thing that differentiates them at the undergraduate level is the type of students that they attract. Basic CS theory is basic CS theory, and you would be studying the same stuff no matter where you go for the most part; the difference between universities is mostly who you would be studying it with.
In general, I think most Americans would be well served by the experience of going somewhere else and living for a while. It doesn't really matter that much if you do school or work -- just go be somewhere that isn't the US for long enough to forget that you aren't in the US any more. Once you've gone a few days without thinking about the fact that you aren't in the US, you're probably in a good position to get a glimpse of the US as non-Americans see it. You'll also then be in a position to evaluate beliefs you may have about the US and the "American way," as some like to call it. All of this tends to cause a huge increase in self confidence. Once you realize that everything you really need to live for a year either fits in a big suitcase or can be acquired for a relatively small amount of money and that human nature is pretty much the same no matter where you go, you'll never look at anything the same way again. For me, this has resulted in a large improvement in my overall state of mind, and it allowed me to pursue happiness much more effectively.
I got a lot of things out of my Physics BS, but I'd put the study abroad experience about on par with the Physics in terms of what is valuable to me now, 6 years after graduation. I even failed a couple Physics classes while I was there and had to take them again when I got back. It was still worth it. I can't recommend a year abroad highly enough. Go somewhere -- it doesn't really matter so much where you go. Try to spend a year there if you can. Be open minded and respectful of the natives when you get there, and I can pretty much promise that you won't regret it.
What thermonuclear war would that be? If you're talking about the potential of nuclear war between India and Pakistan, then bear in mind some important facts:
1. India and Pakistan have fission bombs, not fusion bombs. "Thermonuclear" means fusion (set off by fission.)
2. The nuclear arsenals of both countries are relatively small -- about enough to completely destroy the city of Bangalore, on each side. Assuming that all the bombs work and can be efficiently delivered to their targets.
Research, man!