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Microsoft Uses WGA To Obtain Record Jail Sentences
theodp writes "According to Microsoft, 'No information is collected during the [Genuine Advantage Program] validation process that can be used to identify or contact a user.' That's little comfort to the software counterfeiters who were just handed jail sentences ranging from 1.5-6.5 years by the Futian People's Court in China, especially since Microsoft contends that much of the estimated $2B in bogus software was detected by its Windows Genuine Advantage program. 'Software piracy negatively impacts local economic growth,' explained Microsoft VP Fengming Liu in a celebratory New Year's Eve press release. But then again, so does transferring $16B of assets and $9B in annual profit to an Irish tax haven, doesn't it?"
Seriously, There is a persisting writeup from a japanese LUG years ago talking about how pirated copies of windows cannibalize the linux userbase and dev base.
Pirated windows is the bane of linux, and I applaud microsoft for slitting their own throat by pursuing windows counterfeiters.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
I'm betting that a good amount of the information used in this case came from posters on the WGA forum, where people can post if they're having issues with WGA. One of the tools available in that forum is a WGA diagnostic tool which will generate a sanitized text dump of a user's windows validation information. Most cases on that forum are people whose brother, cousin, or sketchy PC shop installed a common warez release of Windows on their systems, but several there are people who bought apparently legitimate software from resellers which failed validation and later turned out to be counterfeit. Microsoft got in touch with these users, identified the resellers, and I'm betting that this news story is the result.
Sounds to me like they were just bragging that WGA actually noticed when a user had a counterfeit copy, not that it had any effect on the sentence.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
And a lot of you guys will be screaming murder. Have you realized that GPL enforcement and Windows license enforcement comes from the same thing as Copyright law?
This is my sig.
No. "Ireland's low corporate tax rate of 12.5% on trading profits has been a magnet for multinational companies..."
The moral of the story is "Lower your taxes, and they shall come."
Oh no... it's the future.
"But then again, so does transferring $16B of assets and $9B in annual profit to an Irish tax haven, doesn't it?"
What's the point of adding that statement? So it's OK to steal from someone who is "rich" or who has a shrewd accountant?
I don't like Microsoft any more than the next guy, but winking at large scale theft of their product because they somehow "deserve it" is just plain wrong.
Cheers,
In this case it sounds like we're talking about commercially-pirated-and-passed-off-as-genuine software, rather than end-user-pirated software.
FTA: The counterfeit software was found in 36 countries and 11 different languages. It was so sophisticated that it contained legitimate computer code written by Microsoft for programs such as Windows XP and Vista and Microsoft Office, but also had touches of the criminals' own coding as well. That was allegedly added to mimic security programs and fool users into believing the product was authentic.
So it may actually be the case that some of the end users actually thought they had authentic products, and were alerted by WGA. I doubt this happens often, but Microsoft is bound to mention it if it does happen.
Oh no... it's the future.
'Software piracy negatively impacts local economic growth,'
And buying Microsoft software takes money out of local economies and sends it to Redmond. (And buying Apple software does the same thing, but to Cupertino).
I say that using non-free software can also negatively impact local economies, but people do it anyway.
Really, answering my own post here, it's not just as black and white as that. Companies using open source would help energize their local economy by using local companies/consultants, but often they don't. And companies using MS software, while spending for it, may use local companies/consultants as well, keeping some of the money local.
However, in the case of real large scale piracy, it's the worst of both worlds, because money has left the local economy, and not gone to the rightful owners (in this case, Microsoft).
creation science book
We can't all be tax-havens. It is only useful to small countries that can exist on the small transfer fees of enormous corporations from other countries.
The summary appears to suggest that Microsoft was lying about WGA not collecting personal information, otherwise I just can't see why that statement appeared in the summary at all.
Unfortunately, the facts don't support that accusation. All we know is that WGA was used to count how many users had a particular counterfeit copy of Windows; this does not require any identifying information, just a license key. Microsoft then determined through other means that this particular copy originated with a particular pirate group (and yes, piracy is the correct term here).
I also fail to see what Microsoft's accounting practices have to do with this story. Is the submitter trying to suggest that a wrong committed by Microsoft somehow negates its right to seek justice in court? That's not how it works.
Obligatory disclaimer: I'm no more of a Microsoft fan than anyone here, but biased, sensationalist story-telling pisses me off.
Short version for those who can't be bothered to RTFA: WGA doesn't send personally identifiable data, and the people sentenced were not end users but pirates (yeah, I said pirates. Suck it bitches.) who sold on illegal copies.
It's hard to blame Microsoft for moving money offshore to avoid taxes, we're the idiots that tax the hell out of our populace and our companies and think no bad could ever come from it. Perhaps if we were a bit more supportive of success rather than spending $700B - $1,700B rewarding failure ...
I work in computer repair, and a lot of our customers get the WGA notification that warns them they've "stolen" software when they just haven't actually run the check correctly. If anything fails during a windows update, it's likely to pop up. And god forbid a windows update fails due to random reason #2358. Personally, I'd like them to be a bit more accurate.
People call my store all the time accusing us of giving them stolen software. I explain that they have an OEM sticker on their PC and we'd never do that, but heck, Microsoft might get them to buy a second or third copy- so maybe that was their plan.
Belief? Hope? Preference?The Existential Vortex
Yes, it does. So, the natural solution to this is to give corporations incentives to keep their money local instead of sending it to tax havens. America used to be a tax haven for foreign investors. If we want to pull out of the recession quickly, we should restructure our taxes and spending accordingly, to encourage people to squirrel their assets away on our soil, rather than Ireland, Switzerland, the Caribbean or Indonesia.
This is just basic, good sense, especially if you are one of those people who believes that the rich can buy influence. If you believe that, then what makes you think that they won't be able to get their assets overseas while the middle class and lower end of the upper class get taxed into oblivion?
Every US taxpayer should be outraged. If it weren't for practices such as these, the individual tax payer wouldn't have the burden it suffers today. If companies like these were to pay their taxes rather than hide from them with schemes like these, you would be a lot more free to enjoy the money you earn. And this isn't even about "Hate Microsoft." This is about what I suspect all large companies do.
We can't all be tax-havens. It is only useful to small countries that can exist on the small transfer fees of enormous corporations from other countries.
*And* that are financed by huge subsidies by their rich neighbours so that they can be brought kicking and screaming in the century of the fruitbat. Although the whole tax-haven thing isn't so popular lately.
May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
Microsoft says pirating software takes money from local economies! (read: pirates are stealin' America's money!!1one)
Microsoft uses an Irish tax haven to keep billions of their dollars out of reach of the American tax man.
If you don't see the hypocrisy in that, please read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
No the moral of the story is if Microsoft's actions are even potentially open to not being condemned (i.e. preventing the loss of billions of dollars of revenue), then tack on a completely separate story just in case.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
Microsoft is a convicted criminal enterprise. It beats the hell out of the rest of us why Americans remain so unconcerned about the vast scale of their theft, not to mention the tax evasion - and continue to let them get away with it and even defend them... No wonder your house of cards is collapsing...
you had me at #!
No, you are right.
Some of us have massive social welfare programs, lifestyle subsidies, and wealth re-distributions to pay for.
You are under no obligation to arrange your affairs to MAXIMIZE your tax burden.
I can tell you're one of those Republican types who actually believe you work harder for the life you currently have than those who have less than you. That because you were priveleged enough to have advantages, such as a family with the resources to send you to college, you somehow deserve more than those who couldn't go.
I'm using an illegitimate copy of XP right now. My genuine copy lies at the bottom of my desk drawer, rendered useless by the asshats that decided to make small hardware changes require reauthorisation, using up my allotted attempts. After getting no help at all from customer service I downloaded and installed a cracked copy in less than the time than it took for customer service to answer my bloody call...
I am now certain to exterminate WGA from any and all computers I come into contact with.
Ezekiel 23:20
Most GPL && Linux fans in the audience welcome Microsoft's efforts to crack down on Windows piracy. People who are using pirated copies of Windows are using Windows drivers and Windows applications and Windows games and overall increasing Windows market-share. If someone is not using Windows (pirated or otherwise), they'll be much more likely to jump towards Linux - especially if they're looking for a free(-of-charge) OS. The GPL fans should be cheering at such suicidal actions from Microsoft.
/.'s arguments against WGA (and other sorts of DRM) have more to do with how it treats the legitimate end-users rather than getting software without cost/payment. There isn't really anything comparable with GPL'd software, what with how the GPL is specifically designed to avoid such things.
"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
For corporations, taxes are a cost of doing business. The cost of doing business get passed to the consumer.
Wouldn't a better paradigm be to have low corporate taxes to get more corporations to move into your local economy and supply more jobs?
Also, I'd rather have taxpayers know more exactly what their true tax burden is. It is not in the citizen's best interest to have a corporation pay a tax and then have the consumer reimburse the corporation for the tax by paying higher prices for goods and services. How can you make an informed decision about a government's budget if you don't know what the true tax burden is?
So did MS lie when they assured me that no personal information was collected when I installed WGA?
As I understand it, WGA includes a tool to submit an anonymous tip against your supplier. So it collects no personal information about you but instead about your supplier.
I'm in college right now. My dad makes about $27k a year supporting his wife and my brother. He makes just enough that I don't get shit from the government via FAFSA. I'm working as many hours as I can pick up in a worker-saturated college town that exists around the college, and only going to school at about 3/4 time.
Where is my advantage again?
Despite the hatred against Microsoft, commercial or large-scale cloning of MS-products is not ok.
The right thing to do, is to destroy Microsoft completely, burn Bill and his EEE (extend, ...) and marketing team in hell and nuke everything from orbit, just to be sure. ;)
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Thats an economic fallacy called the Window Broken Fallacy.
The gist is that a kid breaks a window,therefore stimulates the economy to "create hundreds of dollars" of potential wealth in services and such.
The fallacypart is that would have happened any number of different ways. Instead, the person with the broken window is out that much money.
I keep telling people we should drop the tax rate on corporations in the US to about 2-4%. That would make it one of the lowest tax rates in the world. Of course, I recommend that they do that and change the tax system to gross receipts basis. Nobody seems to like that part.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
What you're basically saying is that just one raid justifies MS annoying all of us legitimate users and treating us like criminals.
Nothing justifies it, but sticking with a company that treats you like a thief is pretty much acceptance of the charge. You are guilty until proven possibly innocent this time... And Microsoft reserves the right to alter how you are allowed to use their product at any time. An extra check here, a stricter enforcement of the reactivation policy there, and you will move to the next version, or buy a new copy for as long as it is available. Don't like it, you are free to go elsewhere. The WGA software was enough to give me the final push to move to Linux, and I had a fully legit copy of XP. For many, this isn't a big enough problem, and for others, it is something they don't even know about. Basically, Microsoft can do what they like, and until it is tested in court, you are stuck with whatever conditions Microsoft choose to apply.
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
Whatever you are, you are no socialist.
nosig today
You don't think that striving is beneath you. You think that giving up a little pleasure now for a hugely improved life tomorrow is pretty damned smart. You don't think that having to skip a few nights out at the bar is a violation of your human rights. You don't think that some dude shooting his load inside your mother somehow entitles you to a life of luxury and idleness. You aren't so full of false pride that you have to be the center of attention and importance in everything you do. You don't reject every piece of advice because you know that you don't know everything. You aren't a lazy whiner who thinks that even the slightest bit of effort is too much. You don't insist that everyone blindly and baselessly treat you with the respect and deference given to people who've spent decades proving their capability and knowledge.
You contradict your own premise.
There are three tiers to a successful nation:
Extreme right view points ignore the need for a healthy and skilled labor force and its impact on the other two. You protest that no one person has "the right" to be compensated for a disadvantage. However, the entire notion of society is built upon just this right. The right for a collaborative of individuals to work toward a common end despite relatively minor inconveniences to an individual.
So you ask, why should I have to pay out of pocket to send some poor kid to school who could not otherwise afford it? Why should I spend money to improve education and decrease negative social pressures in low income neighborhoods when I live in a nice suburb seemingly unconnected?
The response is simple, it costs more to imprison a man then to educate him. . . and the education also benefits society by producing a skilled member of the worked force. Society receives a net gain when it assists an out of work man in finding employment then if it ignores his plight.
If you don't like the system, then so be it. Walden it up if you wish, but be a man of principle and shirk all the social welfare you enjoy on a daily basis such as socalized military, socialized police, socialized road and transport, subsidized agriculture, subsidized economies. And when you take off to the hills for a life of solitude unburdened by the unfair demands for good health, equal opportunities, and pursuit of a decent life of your fellow man please don't drive on our roads, our airways, or purchase any of our subsidized foods on your way out.
I recall Bill Gates stating that if people are going to pirate an operating system, he preferred they pirated M$ Windoz.
Didn't Ballmer get the memo?
"Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress...but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
It's not like WGA works anyway. I remember when it first came out they had this program you had to download and run to verify that you were running "Genuine Windows" before it would let you download things from Microsoft's website. So I downloaded it and ran it in Wine, which is apparently "Genuine Windows".
I call them up every time I reinstall. "Hello, how can I help you." "I reinstalled windows because of a virus." "Ok, enter this key:"
It only takes a couple minutes.
"Wouldn't a better paradigm be..."
Oh yes, because that works so well for us now!
You realize that notion has been tried and continually tried only to see abused by corporations. Some months ago there was a story where Houston gave incentives to a company to move into their location. In the end, that company ended up sending the job-creating part of its business outside of the US because the labor was cheaper. Houston then sought to recover its incentives offering and as I recall, the fight is still ongoing.
Giving to business in hopes that things will "trickle down to benefit the community" is a dream that has never been shown to work. It has been tried and has failed in every example I am aware of.
A previous responder says something to the effect of not blaming businesses for finding legal ways to shelter themselves from taxes while absorbing benefits of the communities they exist within. This is showing a LOT of taking and nearly no giving back. This is standard operating procedure for the bean-counter-run businesses who seek short term gains on investments. The same person said "...at least they are legal!" Yes, they are legal, but they are immoral. They lobbied and "contributed" heavily to legislators to create these holes in the system to allow them to "legally" do the things they do. I should hope that people begin to see there is no connection between legal and moral. There are many laws that serve immoral ends and tax shelters for big business are among them.
What's the problem?
The problem is that the world is not as black and white as you make it out to be. Because of their job requirements, their lack of technical ability or many other possible reasons, many people cannot leave the Windows world. If I refuse to ever use Windows again I would be out of a job and it would be very difficult to find a new one (unless I was willing to leave the IT field and work construction or as a dishwasher or something).
Windows is the big player in the desktop OS world. Leaving it is simply not a viable option for many of us.
Taxes are robbery, yes it's that simple. When you're taking money from another people under the threat of violence and use it to the end of your choice (however noble this end is in your opinion,) you're committing robbery. And it's precisely what state does with taxes.
No, it isn't. When you are robbed, you have things taken from you under threat of harm. When you pay taxes, you have things taken from you under threat of harm in return for the use the social amenities that we take for granted. Everyone uses these amenities in some form or other, and though they aren't all essential to human survival, they are a staple of life currently.
WGA wasn't used to throw users of the pirated software in jail. WGA was used to determine the pirated keys being used, and the number of them in circulation led the the charges that put the pirates in jail.
And please tell me, why do I have to tell NoScript to allow doubleclick.net before my comment will preview?
Seriously, WHO'S tracking users?