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NZ File-Sharers, Remixers Guilty Upon Accusation

An anonymous reader writes "Next month, New Zealand is scheduled to implement Section 92 of the Copyright Amendment Act. The controversial act provides 'Guilt Upon Accusation,' which means that if a file-sharer is simply accused of copyright infringement he/she will be punished with summary Internet disconnection. Unlike most laws, this one has no appeal process and no punishment for false accusation, because they were removed after public consultation. The ISPs are up in arms and now artists are taking a stand for fair copyright."

90 of 449 comments (clear)

  1. The solution is easy by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Just download a phone directory and spam everyone with generated accusations. They would either have to disconnect the whole country or rethink this utter stupidity.

    --
    It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
    Be yourself no matter what they say
    1. Re:The solution is easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Why not just spam the members of the legislature with the accusations? After two or three months of near-constant Internet service interruptions to their offices, I'm sure they would get the hint.

    2. Re:The solution is easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
    3. Re:The solution is easy by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Presumably they'll only let "qualified" people make accusations, ie. they'll ignore the likes of you and me.

      --
      No sig today...
    4. Re:The solution is easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Exactly as Holloway described

      as ISPs transmit data across their own network (for their users) they're open to copyright infringement claims themselves unless they comply with [section 92]. ISPs are therefore put into the role of policing copyright infringement accusations without judicial oversight against their customers, all while risking their business if they get it wrong. It's in this impossible situation and this poorly thought out law that bypasses the courts that ISPs are saying they will be forced to disconnect customers. When you bypass the courts and due process in favour of a free market of risk-averse ISPs the true nature of [section 92] becomes clear.

      Rather than justice and due process this is a free market of ISPs deciding whose lawyers will cause them more problems. Governments won't be disconnected, nor will important people, but the public now have no protection. Disgusting!

    5. Re:The solution is easy by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Then they'll put in a politician's clause - like they always do. Legislators in the US made their political solicitations calls immune to the Can Spam act.

      Even better, catch their spouses and children in the act. Much harder to make the family immune.

    6. Re:The solution is easy by Racemaniac · · Score: 5, Funny

      but how are you going to sign it...

      if you have no internet?

      mr anderson?

    7. Re:The solution is easy by EdIII · · Score: 2, Funny

      Just download a phone directory and spam everyone with generated accusations. They would either have to disconnect the whole country or rethink this utter stupidity.

      I see something else far more likely to occur. Most the accused will also happen to be same exact assholes that were guilty of spawn camping the accusers party the night before.

    8. Re:The solution is easy by mpe · · Score: 3, Funny

      Too bad the shitface of a politician who added this clauses is out of office since the government change. Judith Tizard if anyones interested,

      In which case her Internet connection is no longer likely to have any special protection applied to it :)

    9. Re:The solution is easy by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Presumably, they'll only let copyright holders make the accusations (which makes a lot of sense). I could also imagine that there'll be some clause regarding basic plausibility, e.g. whether or not you have a copyrighted work on the market (which would also make a lot of sense).

      Still, the system would be laughably easy to corrupt.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    10. Re:The solution is easy by mpe · · Score: 2, Informative

      First become a valid copyright owner. Release a song you record and own the copyright to.

      Current copyright law makes becoming a copyright holder trivial. So trivial that you'd have to take complex steps to avoid being one...

    11. Re:The solution is easy by endymion.nz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Before the election last year I wrote to the MPs who ran in my electorate and posted the replies in facebook group forum..

      http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=29834002818&topic=5497

      Would be good to get some feedback from others.

      --
      mediocrity rules, man
    12. Re:The solution is easy by KillerBob · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You don't actually have to follow a process to copyright it... if you write it, it's your copyright. It's a safe bet that everybody on the planet who's ever held a pen has some copyrights to their name. The question, really, is whether you've produced anything that people actually want to copy.

      --
      If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
    13. Re:The solution is easy by Neeperando · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Those were all really good political non-answers. Kudos to your candidates for so gracefully dodging the question.

      --
      Being a computer scientist means you tell people how computers should work, not that you know how they actually work.
    14. Re:The solution is easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes. We have an alternative system called voting. I recommend that you use it.

      That's swell, if you want to wait until the next election to (hopefully) resolve the problem. Until then, what? Should the Kiwis just grab their ankles and smile?

      No, you generate a lot of media fury. Do this by spoofing the IP's of newspapers, public officials, celebrities, etc. Get them kicked off the internet. If enough people get pissed, the politicians will know they won't get re-elected unless they fix it NOW.

      You don't have to wait until the next election to bring pressure on politicians.

    15. Re:The solution is easy by Hotawa+Hawk-eye · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Even if there are some legal repercussion, pay an inmate who's already in prison for life or a homeless person to send out a few dozen accusation letters. What are they going to do to the inmate, throw him in jail for even longer than life? As for the homeless person, depending on his situation, spending a short time in jail might be an improvement.

    16. Re:The solution is easy by GigsVT · · Score: 2, Informative

      don't believe this is correct. If you explicitly and validly release a copyrighted work into public domain, then it leaves your control permanently.

      This is not a settled legal question, and may vary from country to country.

      Go look at wikipedia's PD template, it says "in case this is not possible", for this reason.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    17. Re:The solution is easy by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If the law wasn't a publicized issue during the election, then there wasn't any attention to be paid. From what I can tell, most of the candidates in question don't even know about it, and most (all?) of their parties don't have a stance on this act.

      At what point were the people not paying attention? Perhaps they could have made a fuss about it when it became a problem - OH WAIT! That's what's happening right now.

    18. Re:The solution is easy by Nasajin · · Score: 3, Informative
      From her wikipedia page:

      In 2008 Judith Tizard championed an amendment to the Copyright Act which requires ISPs to develop policies to terminate the Internet account of repeat copyright infringers. She defended this position robustly when meeting Internet lobby groups, saying it is necessary to protect New Zealand artists, and referred to the release of New Zealand film Sione's Wedding, which, she claimed, was damaged by unlawful distribution on the Internet.

      Did anyone actually see Sione's Wedding? Gods. That film was not damaged by unlawful distribution on the Internet, it was damaged by the fact that it was a terrible film.

    19. Re:The solution is easy by Nasajin · · Score: 3, Informative

      Firstly, this bill is being brought in by the opposition party in parliament (Labour). Secondly, the current government has only recently been instated as of November 19th. So, basically, the bill was going to be introduced either way, and the next opportunity to vote is three years away. A better approach for concerned NZers is to approach their local body representative directly. There is a list here.

    20. Re:The solution is easy by WiiVault · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To be fair most of these political solicitation calls in my experience, are simply talking about a candidate or asking if the voter has any questions about official. I have made these calls and it is amazing how valuable they can be to get people engaged and counter media FUD, or other elements of spin. Often people agree with you and didn't even know it. If CAN-SPAM covered these calls we would become even more apathetic and politically misinformed than we already are, and that should never happen. Also remember that charities are exempted as well, I would argue for similar reasons. On the subject of fundraising, the big money people don't have to make calls, they have big industry already backing them. Its the little guy who survives by making personal fundraising calls

    21. Re:The solution is easy by Nevyn · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't believe this is correct. If you explicitly and validly release a copyrighted work into public domain, then it leaves your control permanently. Everyone has the exact same rights to the work as yourself.

      Depends on which laws (countries) you are talking about, SO has a pretty good question/answer about it:

      http://stackoverflow.com/questions/219742/open-source-why-not-release-into-public-domain

      --
      ustr: Managed string API with ave. 44% overhead over strdup(), for 0-20B
    22. Re:The solution is easy by mikaere · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Did anyone actually see Sione's Wedding? Gods. That film was not damaged by unlawful distribution on the Internet, it was damaged by the fact that it was a terrible film.

      Actually, the problem was that one of the film editors took a copy home and his cousin copied the disk and it was illegally distributed via copies rather than the internet. Either way, Tizard implemented a truly bad law, and for that alone I am glad she got voted out. She had no excuse, she just caved in and gave the content industry what they wanted.

      Anyway, I thought the film was great

      --
      It's good luck to be superstitious
  2. Incredible by VagaStorm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I can quite honestly say this is one of the most insane things I've red. Fortunatley for the population in nz, once evry one and their grandmas has lost internet connections, which should happen in about 3-5 weeks, they will have to see how stupid this is and redraw the law.

    Also an economic rescue pacage for isps with no customers should be prepered now :p

    1. Re:Incredible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      1. Start a business claiming to be an ISP in New Zealand.

      2. Don't bother with renting an office, acquiring network infrastructure, etc. (All you need is a P.O. box and a bank account.)

      3. Accuse each customer of copyright infringement and issue disconnect notice as soon as he/she pays the signup fee.

      4. (No "??????" required.)

      5. Profit!

    2. Re:Incredible by adonoman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's what Canada's doing (kind-of) through its recordable media levy. If you buy a recordable CD, it's assumed that you'll use a portion of it for copying music - some you pay something like $0.25 per cd to compensate the artists of that music.

      In some ways its nice not to have to worry about the CRIA suing you, and since we're already paying for it, it's perfectly legal to make private copies of music in Canada. It does seem ridiculous, though, that to buy cds to back up your computer, over half the cost of the media is the levy.

    3. Re:Incredible by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's what Canada's doing (kind-of) through its recordable media levy. If you buy a recordable CD, it's assumed that you'll use a portion of it for copying music - some you pay something like $0.25 per cd to compensate the artists of that music.

      Math time! 1 cd = 700 megs Average MP3 of reasonable length and quality = 5 megs 700 megs / 5 megs/song = 140 songs 25 cents / 140 songs = 0.17 cent per song I say put the artists in the Thunderdome and let them fight out for the 0.17 cents!

  3. Incompetence By Design by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How is it that the other Anglo-Saxon countries are all WORSE than the US when it comes to digital rights and freedoms? Canada's version of the DMCA is worse, NZ has this, Australia has its wonderful new Great Barrier Firewall planned, and don't even get me started on Britain and encryption. Seriously?

    1. Re:Incompetence By Design by Nutria · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How is it that the other Anglo-Saxon countries are all WORSE than the US when it comes to digital rights and freedoms?

      And lots of other Big Brother and Nanny State idiocy, all from countries that think they are superior to the US.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    2. Re:Incompetence By Design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This may be a conspiracy. Really, think about it: they implement different limitations in different countries, either to see which is better (and then implement it in all countries) or later to implement them all (by saying "but they've got something else and they're doing better, let's do what we do now _and_ what they do").

      Flame me... I've got zero arguments to support this theory, but it's the only one that explains what's going on.

    3. Re:Incompetence By Design by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I didn't say the US had good copyright laws--they're god damned awful. But give me the choice between 99 year copyrights, and lawsuits (none of which have exactly been successes for the RIAA, even the one jury verdict they got was on the edge of being tossed out IIRC) and getting my internet permanentally cut off for suspicion of infringement and I'll take the former. Piss poor laws with due process rights over piss poor laws without them any day.

    4. Re:Incompetence By Design by Failed+Physicist · · Score: 3, Informative

      FYI, Canada doesn't have its own version of the DMCA (yet). Let me try to do a timeline of what happened to it.

      In september 2008, Bill C-61 died on the table when Prime Minister Stephen Harper decided to dissolve parliament (he hoped that his then-minority government would come out of the election as a victorious majority government).

      His party (the Conservative Party of Canada) declared in their election that a new bill would be introduced containing pretty much the same provisions. It was never really discussed during the election period, though.

      Pretty much everyone expected to see that follow-up bill soon, but Harper did not win his bet and got yet another minority government. He never had a chance to introduce the new bill; barely weeks after the election, the 3 main opposition parties declared that they intended to bring down the governing party in the first motion of non-confidence to come. We then learned that they had signed an accord to form a minority coalition in order to take power when Stephen Harper will have to dissolve parliament again.

      So Harper prorogated (ended early) the parliamentary session, which means that when parliament opens its doors again in late january, the conservatives are at high risk of losing power (either the coalition takes over, or parliament is dissolved and we have elections yet again). If Harper doesn't find a way out of that, we will have the very happy consequence of the Canadian DMCA's final death.

    5. Re:Incompetence By Design by Insanity+Defense · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How is it that the other Anglo-Saxon countries are all WORSE than the US when it comes to digital rights and freedoms?

      Canada isn't worse than the U.S. on this matter. Not even as bad yet as we have so far managed to fight off attempts by the U.S. to pressure our government into making a Canadian form of the DMCA

    6. Re:Incompetence By Design by KillerBob · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That recordable media levy is the main reason that Canada doesn't have a DMCA. And the price is virtually non-existent. I can still buy a 50-pack of blank CD's for $20 at the local Staples, less if I go to somebody who actually specializes in computer gear.

      It's also worth pointing out that any Canadian version of the DMCA is unlikley to gain footing... it's only supported by the Conservatives, and they have a minority. One that's so stable, actually, that they had to have the Governor General suspend parliament before Christmas to avoid a confidence vote. Parliament resumes next week, and the vote is likely to happen then.

      Smart move by them, really... it gave the Liberals time to remove Stephane Dion, whose wishy-washy leadership is the main reason the Liberals didn't win the last election... had they allowed the Liberals to topple the government, they would have been able to fight another election against Dion. Now they're going up against Michael Ignatieff, who appears significantly more competent, and has a *much* higher approval rating. :)

      --
      If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
    7. Re:Incompetence By Design by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That recordable media levy is the main reason that Canada doesn't have a DMCA. And the price is virtually non-existent.

      That still doesn't justify it any better to my way of thinking. I have to help fund RIAA if I want to burn a copy of memtest86 or my favorite Linux distro? What's wrong with that picture?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    8. Re:Incompetence By Design by operagost · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just thought I'd mention that, although only slightly less heinous, the copyright protection period is actually 95 years.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    9. Re:Incompetence By Design by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Bad as that may be it is still better than the DMCA

      And being raped is better than being murdered but that still doesn't make it a good thing. In the ideal world we would have neither a DMCA nor a RIAA tax.

      Also my country is not trying to force others to create harsher copyright laws

      Your country would be doing it if it had a large and powerful industry that regarded copyrights as an important part of their business model. Canada has it's share of tariffs and other policies designed to protect domestic industries regarded as important. Note that I'm not saying that this makes it right -- just saying that the United States isn't the only country that looks out for the (perceived) best interests of domestic industries.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  4. The solution by kimvette · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am repeating this ad nauseum but it's really the best, most effective solution.

    1. Stop buying new music
    2. Stop going to shows of new acts
    3. Don't "pirate"[sic] music, just KILL the demand. P2P only lends credence, however tenuous, that they are "losing" money due to "theft"[sic].
    4. Don't listen to top 40 radio
    5. Did I mention stop uploading/downloading music on P2P networks? Boycott the big labels.

    Bankrupt the RIAA(or whatever it's called in your respective country) members. Then, sanity will be restored to copyright.

    Oh, in case you think your favorite label is an indie, remember this family tree - it's a little out of date but you'll see that a lot of "indie" labels you like, aren't! Check it out:

    http://www.arancidamoeba.com/mrr/whoownswho2.html

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    1. Re:The solution by Cor-cor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      6. And get everyone you know to play along.

      I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I'm really hard pressed to believe that the readership of Slashdot is what's driving the demand for the Big 4.

    2. Re:The solution by calmofthestorm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They just make up the figures for pirated copies anyway. They count copies that aren't *bought* in the numbers they expect as pirated. Not pirating is better than pirating, but not by much

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    3. Re:The solution by QuantumG · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've heard this nonsense a few times. Haven't you heard? They're already going out of business and it has nothing to do with P2P file sharing. The "problem" is simply that musicians don't need them anymore. Was a time when they controlled the distribution and the means of production. Now they control neither. Any idiot with a Mac and a copy of Garage Band can cut an album now. More people buy from iTunes than buy CDs. So where are the labels going to make their money? Promotion? Ha! There's marketing companies out there that are a hundred times better and, importantly, cheaper.

      The music industry is beat.. but they have a war chest and they intend to spend every dime before they give up and go home.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    4. Re:The solution by Slisochies · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Then this decrease in demand will be blamed upon priacy, probably resulting in a blanket tax on internet connections, or blank media to make up for lost revenues.

    5. Re:The solution by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      1. Stop buying new music

      RIAA: "Hey, our sales are down! It must be piracy!"

      2. Stop going to shows of new acts

      For the record, this is one place that isn't affected by piracy. If I were a legitimate artist wanting to stay out of the whole debate, I'd give away MP3s, sell physical copies for those who want them, and make the real money from touring.

      3. Don't "pirate"[sic] music, just KILL the demand. P2P only lends credence, however tenuous, that they are "losing" money due to "theft"[sic].

      This solves nothing. They obviously have no need for real proof, anyway, or why would they have sued dead people, and people who have never used computers? Filesharing could stop, overnight, and they wouldn't notice.

      Because it was never about piracy. Piracy is just a nice scapegoat that they use as an excuse to do whatever they want. Right now, that's laws (which give them the right to hit up random people for cash), more DRM (to make it that much more difficult for third parties to compete, while opening the door for selling the same crap to you many more times), and whatever else they feel like doing.

      As long as piracy exists, life is good -- they can do pretty much whatever they want, and get away with it.

      So, if piracy no longer existed, they would need to create it. I have little doubt that employees of major record labels would be distributing their own files, just so they could pretend that it's still a threat.

      4. Don't listen to top 40 radio

      Then the question becomes, what should you listen to? Where should you get your music from, if you're to stop buying new music?

      All you're doing is sending them a message that you personally no longer care about music, or movies -- and, very likely, they will assume you're a pirate. What you should be doing is sending them a message that also tells them how you want it to look. Show them demand, but on your terms.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    6. Re:The solution by daBass · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Any idiot with a Mac and a copy of Garage Band can cut an album now.

      Just like any idiot with a toolbox can make you a sofa and everyone with a camera can shoot a wedding - but that doesn't mean its going to be any good.

      Personally, I like companies investing in artists, allowing them to not have to have a day job and focus on writing and recording an album. Working with people - producers, engineers, session musicians - that really know their craft and inspire the artist to do their best work. A nice studio environment with top equipment and great acoustics doesn't hurt either.

      Not everything that the major labels put out is 13-a-dozen Top 40 R&B crap, there are some really talented people in the system. Yes, some of the established ones could finance their own recordings, but there are some wonderful debut albums by people who can't. Not to mention those that need a couple of albums to hone their craft before finally breaking and recouping costs. If they financed it from their own savings, that first flop would have been all they ever put out.

      No, you don't always need them, but if we lose the investment major labels make, the music world will be lesser for it.

    7. Re:The solution by hasdikarlsam · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Know their craft, do they?

      Due to the loudness war, I've been basically unable to listen to anything released over the last fifteen-twenty years. Fortunately we have a large cache of older records.

      If the labels died, there'd be an increase in dud records, but right now almost *all* of them are duds to me. There'd also be an increase in records I can actually listen to.

    8. Re:The solution by arkhan_jg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Businesses other than the big 4 are capable of loaning money to a startup small business, which is effectively what a self-producing artist is. There are also smaller truly indie labels that perform the same function.

      Artists see such tiny percentages of the gross from a big 4 album, they can even end up owing the label money.

      The main reason to go with a big label is the marketing effects from the big 4 being embedded so deep in other media channels such as TV and radio, thus giving you exposure that it's very hard to get even now on an indie. This is changing though, and were the big 4 to go away, it would open up the door to lots of artists having moderate success, instead of a tiny handful getting mega success and everybody else going nowhere.

      Nothing the big 4 does now can't be replicated by a host of other smaller, more artist and listener focused businesses, instead of the profit-at-any-cost current ones that try to control the market and the artists rather than supply what they want and need. For example, people wanted easy to download non-DRM music on-demand. It's taken 15 YEARS for the music industry to finally deliver. I remember my mate introducing me to MP3/BIT files downloaded off the internet in 1994. Here we are in 2009, and amazon has finally just launched its non-DRM MP3 download service in the UK, with major label backing. Speedy response to the market there guys.

      --
      Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
    9. Re:The solution by daBass · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is, however, an essential part of my enjoyment of music.

    10. Re:The solution by mabinogi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Feel free to go back to 1850 any time you like.
      In fact, you'll have to go back much further than that, because musicians were making money of printed music even before they were doing it off recorded music.

      Unless you were planning on commissioning a piece? Or maybe become a patron?

      Don't fool yourself that playing pubs ever put food on a musician's table and paid for his instruments.

      --
      Advanced users are users too!
    11. Re:The solution by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The real useful function of the labels was traditionally separating the hits from the duds. They weren't perfect at it, of course, but that was their job. They seem to have forgotten their job function, however, and instead chase trends ("hey this singer is hot, let's sign a dozen more like her!"), interfere with the artists ("we think your song would be more marketable if...."), and generally just try to get away with ripping off as many people as possible ("pay for play" musician law, "losing" the addresses of well known artists so as to be unable to forward on payments, P2P lawsuits, etc).

      One of the things I like about Amie Street is that the users take on the label's job. Songs start out as free and rise in price to a maximum of 98 cents as people buy them. So if you buy a 98 cent song, you're guaranteed to have something that many people like. Otherwise, you could buy a free/very-low-cost song, taking a risk that it is as good as the song preview makes it out to be, and not risk much money. With the $15 that you might use to buy one 12-song CD, you could buy 15 hits and 6 nickel-priced possible hits. 21 songs versus 12 songs and that's not even counting free songs you could take a chance on.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  5. How to disconnect any Kiwi's Internet Connection by CuteSteveJobs · · Score: 5, Interesting

    More proof that politicians pass laws to please their political donors and lobbyists, without understanding their implications. These infringement notices have been shown to be unreliable and easily spoofed.

    http://dmca.cs.washington.edu/
    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080605-study-paints-grim-picture-of-automated-dmca-notice-accuracy.html
    http://torrentfreak.com/study-reveals-reckless-anti-piracy-antics-080605/
    http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/05/the-inexact-science-behind-dmca-takedown-notices/

    So now any New Zealander can have their internet connection cut if anyone knows their IP address: http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/95089

    So today's Political Enemy of the Internet Award goes to New Zealand's Judith Tizard, who joins Australia's Stephen Conroy and Britains Andy Burnham. I could handle it when all politicians did was rort the system, but this is getting really annoying. I don't recall voting for any of this stuff, and I'll put them last on the ballot next time.

  6. Re:I accuse by DeadPixels · · Score: 5, Funny

    It was New Zealand on the Internet with the Candlestick!

  7. flippant American answer by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Funny

    Because all the other Anglo-Saxon countries still have the visage of a hereditary monarch on their coins. ;-)

    1. Re:flippant American answer by DrugCheese · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah I understand where you're coming from, for awhile there New Zealand looked like a great place to move to. Then there are things like this law getting put down and antagonists from Mordor that really make me double think that.

      --
      *DrugCheese rants*
    2. Re:flippant American answer by dbIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Come on, you guys are so jealous of our hereditary monarch that you gave Bush more power than any King since John.

    3. Re:flippant American answer by Grimbleton · · Score: 5, Funny

      Who's John King?

    4. Re:flippant American answer by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why not? The rest of Middle Earth is there.

    5. Re:flippant American answer by chris_mahan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because people in the US have guns and use them. There's a long history of US politicians having been killed/shot at by US citizens.

      (Lincoln, a couple of Kennedys, Reagan come to mind)

      And they can't get the laws changed because, well, people have guns.

      I personally think that's a good thing (The gun ownership part, not the (shooting at|killing) politicians part).

      --

      "Piter, too, is dead."

    6. Re:flippant American answer by HungryHobo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      and the sad thing is you really believe this.

      If what you said held any weight then bush would have been gunned down years ago.
      But he wasn't. despite the vast numbers of people who hated him.
      Not one of them got a shot off.

      You know how much difference it makes that you have guns? Sweet Fuck All.
      Your senator isn't scared by your penis extension. He has a security team who can use theirs much better than you can.

    7. Re:flippant American answer by Hurricane78 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exactly. The ones who get shot are the good presidents. Lincoln, Kennedy... and I hope not, but it would not surprise me: Obama. :(

      You can guess by whom. (Hint: Not the normal people!)

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    8. Re:flippant American answer by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why do you feel that one individual with a gun should have so much power as to decide whether he wants to remove a single politician person of his choosing permanently from society?

      Didn't he say that he disagrees with the shooting at politicians part? I think you can be pro-gun without being pro-assassination.....

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    9. Re:flippant American answer by HungryHobo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So you're saying there wasn't a vast number of people who hated him anyway? If the grandparent were correct then one really pissed person would be enough. In 8 years out of hundreds of millions of people, not one of the pissed assholes amongst them managed it.

      Authority does tend to be based on the threat of violence but in the case of your handgun vs the US government it's basicly spitting at a thunderstorm. Even if you and everyone you know stands spitting at the storm you still achieve nothing.

    10. Re:flippant American answer by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The people who thought that Bush should be shot were overwhelmingly the same people who think that guns are inherently evil.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    11. Re:flippant American answer by russotto · · Score: 2, Funny

      Stupid mordor in the middle of new zealand...

      Mordor's not so bad. It's was a cold, wet, tough climb, and the descent wrecked my knee, and the smell of sulfur was in fact present. But there were no armies of Orcs or Urak-Hai (just level 1 Tourists, mostly friendly), and no giant spiders either.

      http://www.tongarirocrossing.org.nz/

    12. Re:flippant American answer by operagost · · Score: 2

      If what you said held any weight then Bush would have been gunned down years ago.

      That's because the people who hate him the most are also gun-control advocates.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    13. Re:flippant American answer by mog007 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do you view Lincoln and Kennedy as good presidents who got shot, or good presidents BECAUSE they got shot?

      Lincoln is the one who's responsible for the modern view that the president is allowed to issue edicts which have the full force of law, without consent from Congress. With Johnson following in his footsteps, he was impeached for his actions.

      Kennedy was responsible for getting us involved in that fuckwit war in Vietnam, and he's responsible for the embargo that's STILL in place on Cuba to this day. You'd think that after half a century we could get over it, and revitalize their economy.

      Now, Kennedy might have signed a couple of laws with regard to segregation, and that's nice, but Lincoln didn't free any slaves. The Emancipation freed the slaves in territories that didn't recognize the President or Congress as their leadership. Would be similar to Obama outlawing child prostitution in Indonesia or something, it just has absolutely no legal merit.

      And why does nobody talk about Garfield?

      He should have been your first pick for assassinated presidents. He died after only about a year in office, which isn't enough time to do much good or much bad. However, his death DID lead to the invention of the metal detector, or at least the first use of a device to find a bullet.

    14. Re:flippant American answer by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Kennedy was responsible for getting us involved in that fuckwit war in Vietnam,

      There was American support on the ground before that, and after that. To pick the guy in the middle that escalated it when every president involved before and after escalated it as well is a little absurd.

      and he's responsible for the embargo that's STILL in place on Cuba to this day.

      Then I blame Bush for not ending it, since he was the most recent able to do so. We'll see if Obama does. He probably will and will use the excuse of Fidel Castro's death as the reason to end it.

      You'd think that after half a century we could get over it, and revitalize their economy.

      I agree. Why didn't Bush end it (just picking on him because he's the most recent)? He's the most directly to blame for it being in place because he's the one that can end it now. Yet, it's there, and you are blaming some dead person for us continuing an embargo? That seems absurd. Though you do point out one problem I have with our form of goverment. It's too consistent. It's consistent to the point of absurdity. "Case Law" is an abomination which lets judges legislate from the bench. It's been a part of common law longer than the US has existed, but it is something we should have not inherited. I'd be for changing it so that rather than remanding it to a lower court after making findings of law, remanding it to the legislature. If the law isn't clear enough that judges can figure it out, how can the people? Yet, the confusing law is the only law available to the people, and "case law" is something that is made up on the fly so that no law is consistent.

      Lincoln didn't free any slaves. The Emancipation freed the slaves in territories that didn't recognize the President or Congress as their leadership. Would be similar to Obama outlawing child prostitution in Indonesia or something, it just has absolutely no legal merit.

      I didn't realize the US had claim on Indonesia. At the time, the USA claimed legal standing over the Confederacy. As such, he freed every slave there, but was unable to enforce it. That's a minor distinction like the minor distinction between being alive and dead.

  8. Summary internet disconnection? by geekgirlandrea · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So if you commit a burglary at night and use a flashlight, are you banned for life from ever using electricity? If you get caught dealing drugs and taking orders by cell phone, are you banned from ever having a telephone again?

    Cutting someone off from access to communications technology for an indefinite term in modern society is a *very* harsh punishment. It's like these things all get written by some geriatric lawyer who's thinking "Those damn whippersnappers aren't doing anything important on that intarthingy anyway".

    1. Re:Summary internet disconnection? by calmofthestorm · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, those are just stealing physical property. Pirating media is far worse because it deprives hardworking musicians and other artists of their well-deserved profits, which is far worse, really, than most felonies -- hardly a civil matter.

      Clearly we need to realign enforcement priorities to take into account the seriousness of the crime.

      Note for the completely oblivious: see sig

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    2. Re:Summary internet disconnection? by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's like these things all get written by some geriatric lawyer who's thinking "Those damn whippersnappers aren't doing anything important on that intarthingy anyway".

      umm.. they're written by lobbyists for the music industry.. an industry of which "geriatric" is a gross understatement. They've failed to keep up with technology and now they're sinking fast. If they could get the Internet banned outright, they would.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    3. Re:Summary internet disconnection? by flinkflonk · · Score: 4, Funny

      Pirating media is far worse because it deprives hardworking musicians and other artists of their well-deserved profits, which is far worse, really, than most felonies -- hardly a civil matter.

      Hmm, do I have to point out the obvious mistake you made here? It's clearly not the musicians and other artists who deserve the profit, it's the record companies for their hard, hard work of making those little plastic discs and promoting hopeless no-sell artists like Rihanna, Take That and Britney Spears. Surely you don't want them to do that for free, like, well, make one of those newfangled websites everybody seems to think are so hip these days.

      Interweb, bah!

  9. "With but a prick I damn him" by seeker_1us · · Score: 4, Insightful
    This law was written for the *AA and their international ilk.

    They can shut down independent musicians simply by saying so (like Shakespeare said "With but a prick, I damn him"). Furthermore, they can shut down anyone who legally downloads any independent work through Bittorrent (it's filesharing) just by claiming it violates their copyright.

    None of these laws were ever about protecting artists. They are all about giving the established monopolies a method of protecting their predatory business practices.

    1. Re:"With but a prick I damn him" by khallow · · Score: 3, Informative

      With but a "spot" (also meant a bit of blood). The term was used interchangeably with "prick" (which also had the double meaning of a stab wound) in that scene. For context, this was from the play "Julius Caesar". Mark Antony had previously spoken out in Julius Caesar's funeral against the assassins of Julius Caesar (who was earlier stabbed to death by a number of Roman Senators including Brutus, his former best friend). In this scene, Antony, Octavius Caesar, and Lepidus draw up a list of people to execute (including the assassins above). The "spot" is the chilling act of Antony writing in the name of his nephew and thus marking him for death. Definitely appropriate for this slashdot story.

  10. yea...great. by Urza9814 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Reminds me of a couple years ago when I created a myspace music page for 'music' created from 'cat [some file] > /dev/audio'. I uploaded two files, and on the third one, myspace claimed it was copyright and locked the page up. It's _still_ locked up. Years later. Because whatever the hell they use to determine copyright screwed up.

    1. Re:yea...great. by Rangataua · · Score: 3, Informative
      Try mpg123 instead:

      cat <file> | mpg123 -

  11. didn't he run British Airways? by Trepidity · · Score: 2, Informative

    Wikipedia confirms, but since being made a life peer in 1983, that's now Baron King to you.

    Which of course requires a similarly flippant American comment about how in the UK, "industrial baron" and "robber baron" and so on aren't just figures of speech!

  12. No. Actually it doesn't by 91degrees · · Score: 2, Informative

    "The controversial act provides 'Guilt Upon Accusation,"

    The law is vaguely drafted, but requires ISPs to reasonably implement a disconnection policy. Now, I don't know about you, but since everyone thinks that immediate disconnection upon accusation is not reasonable, this is probably not a reasonable disconnection policy.

  13. Yes, Actually, it does. by thesupraman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You are missing the subtle half of the plan.

    If the policy implemented by an ISP is found upon later inspection to be too lenient on the 'evil pirates' then the ISP becomes legally responsible for the copyright infringement.

    Then again, if someone gets incorrectly disconnected, I suspect the ISP could at worst be forced to reinstate their connection, IF they can prove this.

    So, the only 'sane' thing an ISP can do is disconnect anyone at the slightest hint of trouble - anything else could result in the blame falling in their lap.

    I bet the ISPs are very happy at providing free policing services to the music/movie industries.. after all, they make SO much more money :/.

  14. The actual legalese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    *snip*

    Internet service provider liability

    92A Internet service provider must have policy for terminating accounts of repeat infringers

    (1) An Internet service provider must adopt and reasonably implement a policy that provides for termination, in appropriate circumstances, of the account with that Internet service provider of a repeat infringer.

    (2) In subsection (1), repeat infringer means a person who repeatedly infringes the copyright in a work by using 1 or more of the Internet services of the Internet service provider to do a restricted act without the consent of the copyright owner.

    */snip*

    Interpret it as you will, I personally don't see it as a "I'm an idiot MPAA lawyer and I say that whoever was on 123.231.6.250 at 1850hrs NZDT downloaded the latest Britney music video on the youtoobsmachine so therefore he/she/it is guilty!!! Jail for a trillion years!"* like the FUD being bandied about. It's flawed and retarded, sure, but it's not a sign of the apocalypse. Maybe some of the wannabe-faux-lawyers here can decipher it otherwise?

    As I read it, the idiots at *AA still have to complain with a cease and desist orgy, the ISP's will just be legally bound to give multiple warnings before disconnecting a user.

    As it currently is in NZ, a few ISP's will send you a warning and you simply respond with "NZ is none of their business or juristiction, tell them to bugger off and read the Berne Convention" and said ISP's will tend to leave it at that. Other ISP's shrug and say "not our responsibility Mr RIAA-tard, so kindly go and stab yourself in the face with a cricket bat." This change seeks to sort this situation out to make things clearer for all parties involved, it's just a shame that it seemingly puts too much power on the side of the accuser. Still, not as much power as the uninformed blogots seem to think.

    My personal feeling is that there is a disconnect between the *AA, their friends and the consumers. They want to keep throwing physical media at us. What did the SACD vs DVDA battle show us (and DCC vs MD before that)? People were satisfied with mp3's or CD's. "Good enough" is exactly that, especially when "good enough" goes hand in hand with "easy". HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray was the same deal: Plain ol DVD is good enough for most people. Once they bump up to a 50"+ screen, then sure, the resolution vs viewing distance is required. Apart from that, the only interest I had in either format was as a mass storage media. And I still don't want to sit through 10 minutes of "Downloading is stealing" BS when I just want to watch the damn movie that I paid for.

    The *AA crowd missed the boat on capitalising on the internet as a delivery platform, and because of their litigious nonsense, we're probably 5-10 years behind where we should be. Assuming an appropriate platform would have driven a higher rate of broadband expansion than we've had. Spotify without the stupid country requirements might be a good start.

    * Jail for a trillion years in NZ is like three months real jail time

    1. Re:The actual legalese by holloway · · Score: 2, Insightful

      See the responses to this comment

  15. What about company internet links? by thesupraman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    An interesting question is what happens if a companies internet link is used to download 'copyrighted material'?

    Surely by this same measure, that companies link will be removed and they will not be allowed to have one? That should make staying in business interesting.

    Should, for example, some foreign 'pirate' decide to share a large quantity of copyright material, log the IPs downloading it, scan for NZ companies static IP addresses, then forward all of that data to the ISPs/Authorities involved it would create quite a problem..

    Could ALL the large companies/govt. dept. in New Zealand guarantee none of their staff will do such a thing?

    That is after all much the same situation as cutting off a families internet connection when their 10 year old discovers music downloading before their parents notice (quite a common occurrence I suspect..).

  16. We're the great fudgers by kaiwai · · Score: 4, Interesting

    yeap, we're the great fudgers - we avoid confrontation, heck, recent study showed that if New Zealand was offered a benevolent dictator and ran things better than now - most would ok it.

    Sure, there will be a few loud people who will kick up a stink, but the rest of NZ will comtinue moving. The anti-smacking bill isn't going to get removed, nor any of the other reforms introduced by Labour. Both parties talk about change but the reality is that they keep the status quo once they get it - then add more of their own laws to the sporgusboard.

    Its unfortunate that the green's are the only part who have their IT sorted out - and yet their economic and social policy royally sucks. How come there are so many idiots on the right - specifically, complete ludites when it comes to IT?

    1. Re:We're the great fudgers by Seriousity · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Too right mate. To my shame, the thought ofttimes occurs to me that as a nation, us Kiwis are the biggest bunch of complacent sheep out there.

      We can tell our fellow New Zealanders about what needs fixing in this country until we're blue in the face, and the majority will say "Nah mate she'll be right" and keep drinking tui and worshipping the All Blacks.

      I saw Richard Stallman's copyright vs community speech at the Otago University, and a speaker from the Greens party did the introduction - she made it quite clear that her party was genuinely more concerned about the rest about IT issues; however she mixed tripe about intellectual property and indigenous rights into her speech, which made her look like a silly fool who had no idea what she was talking about, and was trying to make copyright a pulpit for her crappy social policies. Stallman was making faces of agony behind her, and she seemed to have a hard time trying to figure out what we were all laughing about.

      Needless to say, the first thing RMS did after her speech was debunk 90% of it.
      /rant

      --
      This post was made in complete sincere seriousity; as such any attempts to derive humour are doomed to instant failure.
    2. Re:We're the great fudgers by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ecent study showed that if New Zealand was offered a benevolent dictator and ran things better than now - most would ok it.

      The only problem with that is that for every Augustus or Marcus Aurelius you also you have a Nero or Commodus.

      I'll take my checks, balances and inalienable rights over a "benevolent" dictator any day of the week.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  17. Re:How to disconnect any Kiwi's Internet Connectio by Rangataua · · Score: 3, Informative

    That would be the former member of Parliament Judith Tizard (she lost her seat during the last General Election in November). Now would be a really good time for all New Zealand based Slashdot readers to contact Steven Joyce (who is the minister for Communications and Information Technology). It would probably also be a good idea to contact your local electorate MP to voice your concern.

  18. Out of government reach? by Epsillon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can't help thinking there's a larger issue at play here. It seems that governments the world over have suddenly realised that we were serious about a space beyond government control and are taking steps to "rectify" this and using the likes of the MPAA/RIAA as their diversion. I wonder if the various industry associations know they're being used? Let's look at what we've got so far:

    • Filesharing being rapidly beaten down by oppressive and draconian laws
    • Filtering and censorship akin to that of China's great firewall in supposedly "free" countries
    • Wiretaps, supposedly illegal, being inserted into ISPs and backbone nodes
    • Encryption becoming dangerous by dint of the UK's stupid RIPA which will throw you in prison if you can't decrypt something for the police

    And that's just off the top of my head. Are the governments becoming threatened by the Internet's open architechture? More to the point, how far are they going to go to destroy it before we decide enough is enough? The biggest problem for them, as I see it, is that the Internet, with millions of people in open and free contact, has the power to keep them honest. They don't seem to like that, do they?

    --
    Resistance is futile. Reactance buggers it up.
  19. Put Internet Rights into the Constitution by wikinerd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The citizens of NZ should ask for a constitutional amendment to include internet rights as a basic human right, just as Greece did in its 2001 constitution:

    1. All persons have the right to information [...] 2. All persons have the right to participate in the Information Society. Facilitation of access to electronically transmitted information, as well as of the production, exchange and diffusion thereof, constitutes an obligation of the State [...]

    Of course even if something is codified into the constitution it could be limited by law (as it does in the case above if you read the PDF) or not implemented at all, but it is in general a good idea even just for the sake of the symbolism itself to have internet rights codified into the constitution.

  20. Define infringer? by phorm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What defines somebody as an infringer?

  21. Well Damn it! by Wellington+Grey · · Score: 2, Interesting

    New Zealand was on the top of my non-crazy countries to move to list (here - NSFW, maybe) in nine months. Any other suggestions out there?

  22. Greens are the only party with a conscience. by refactored · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Let's face it, there is only one party left in NZ with any conscience. That's the Greens.

    Most (non-troll) slashdotters would be quite in agreement with all the Greens 'net policies and get a comfortable feeling that these guys actually understand and like the 'net.

    The Main Stream Media tries damn hard to portray the Greens as dope smoking hippy nutters, but thats because they're the only party in parliament not deep in the pockets of big business.

    If you actually look closely, the Greens are the only ones that give a shit about the environment, freedom, the poor and little guy. The rest of them only care about campaign funds, and a recursive frenzy between the media irrelavent sensationalized "human interest" stories and the politicians saying whatever ill-thought out thing that will make them look good on TV. Law and Order is a favourite.

    1. Re:Greens are the only party with a conscience. by refactored · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Gerry Brownlee? Is that you?

      Environment - they may mean well, but their lack of scientific knowledge about the environment leads them to support all kinds of ideas that sound good on the surface, but would in fact be detrimental to the environment. e.g. their endorsement of biofuels.

      Still gullibly eating MSM sound bites?

      This tragic little Energy (Fuels, Levies, and References) Biofuel Obligation Repeal Bill, rushed through all its stages under urgency by a Minister of Energy and Resources who is ignorant of most aspects of his portfolio--apart from perhaps sexy coal--will do exactly the opposite of what the Minister says it will do. It will replace the potentially sustainable local industry--stable, secure and well known--with intermittent imports of biofuels from unknown sources, which are likely to include palm oil from South-east Asia grown where the tropical forests, the last refuge of the orang-utan, used to grow, and corn ethanol with a higher carbon footprint than petroleum, subsidised by the US Government. That is what this bill will do

      Looks like she's done her homework to me.

      Freedom - Uhhhhh.... do you know anything about the greens at all?

      Green MP Keith Locke is calling for an inquiry into the Police Special Investigation Group following evidence it is planting paid informants in legitimate protest groups.

      This morning the Sunday Star-Times carried details of activities of a Police informer who infiltrated and spied upon Greenpeace and groups active on animal rights, climate change and peace issues. The informer was operating under the instructions of the Police Special Investigation Group.

      "Such Stasi tactics are unacceptable in New Zealand," said Mr Locke, the party's Police spokesperson.

      "Peace and environmental protesters are the conscience of society, not enemies of the state.

      I know it is very hard for you to digest more than a sound bite, but try actually read the whole of Gordon Campbell's analysis of the Zaoui case. Oh yes, Campbell is the Green's media rep. Oh yes, What is the difference between myself and Zaoui? I have a letter of recommendation from a police force that murdered thousands and Zaoui is a democratically elected representative. Guess who the Labour (and certainly the National) parties imprisoned?

      NZ has one of the highest prison populations on the planet (tiny compared to Gulag America I know), but which parties want to build more prisons?

      Opposing better education for a small elite, yes they oppose that bitterly.

      Good. They support better education for all, personally this policy will help my kids quite a bit.