A TV Show Based On MAKE Magazine

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A TV Show Based On MAKE Magazine

Posted by kdawson on Tuesday January 6, 2009 @01:14AM from the hacking-for-the-masses dept.

ptorrone writes "Make: television debuted online and on public television (broadcast / cable tv). The series encourages everyone to invent, reinvent, recycle, upcycle, and act up. Based on the popular Make magazine, each half-hour episode hopes to inspire viewers to think, create, and, well, make. Each episode can be viewed or downloaded DRM-free, in HD on makezine.tv — the show is also available on Vimeo, YouTube, blip.tv and iTunes."

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If only... by calvert · 2009-01-06 01:19 · Score: 2, Funny

you could MAKE me watch it. Sorry, couldn't help it.
1. Re:If only... by Tubal-Cain · 2009-01-06 01:24 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry, couldn't help it.
  You must have been awake as long as I have.
2. Re:If only... by Golliwogg · 2009-01-06 02:08 · Score: 0, Offtopic
  
  Dat pun waz terrible. ya'll should be ashamed o' yo' self, son.
  
  --
  I, fo' one, welcome our new black overlords. sho 'nuff!
A good idea for a show... by Dadamh · 2009-01-06 01:24 · Score: 1

...that will unfortunately never catch on. Sadly, people are lazy to the core, and would rather just throw old stuff out and buy kitchsy "rustic" art at some shop somewhere.
1. Re:A good idea for a show... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2009-01-06 01:36 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I strongly doubt that America's Next Top Model need fear for its slot; but as a niche program, MAKE is quite promising. Their magazine isn't on track to replace People on the newstands of America; but it has a solid niche, I suspect the show will be about the same.
  
  Also, you might be underestimating the willingness of people to try stuff like that. Look at scrapbooking: Most of the people doing it would be better off buying kitchy "rustic" art somewhere, given their skill and taste levels; but there are swarms of them doing it anyway.
2. Re:A good idea for a show... by that+this+is+not+und · 2009-01-06 01:37 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  My main criticism of Make: is it's heavy reliance on kitch. There's some robotics in there, sometimes, but mostly it's kitch.
3. Re:A good idea for a show... by Reality+Master+101 · 2009-01-06 01:45 · Score: 1
  
  ...that will unfortunately never catch on. Sadly, people are lazy to the core, and would rather just throw old stuff out and buy kitchsy "rustic" art at some shop somewhere.
  What is your definition of "catch on" that would satisfy you? What percentage of garbage can actually be turned into something useful? And by "useful", I don't mean a bunch of garbage that's welded together and called art, which a microscopic number of people actually want in their homes.
  Anyway, too many people wring their hands about garbage dumps. Today's dumps are tomorrow's oil fields.
  
  --
  Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
4. Re:A good idea for a show... by 0100010001010011 · 2009-01-06 01:52 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Until the recession. There are stories all over the internet about how Goodwill/Salvation army is booming and how auto mechanics are seeing everyone repairing their old cars to extend the life.
  I'm hoping that changes the attitude of most Americans where 'old' isn't necessarily bad.
5. Re:A good idea for a show... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 02:07 · Score: 0
  
  I'm hoping that changes the attitude of most Americans where 'old' isn't necessarily bad.
  
  That's it! We won't stand for any more of this nonsensical UNAMERICAN talk!
6. Re:A good idea for a show... by Abcd1234 · 2009-01-06 02:39 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  The irony in this is that old cars, electronics equipment, and so forth, are typically far less efficient and/or environmentally friendly. As such, the unfortunate consequence is that the move to greater energy efficiency will likely be greatly hampered by the precise trend you've identified.
  Or: while old may not necessarily mean "bad", it sure doesn't necessarily mean "good", either.
7. Re:A good idea for a show... by zappepcs · 2009-01-06 02:43 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  There was a time, before surface mount components, when US manufacturers made products to last. Products that were repairable. Products of quality. About the time that surface mount components came along, everything turned to 'throw away' production values. If the electronics is not repairable, no need to make the rest of it last 27 years. This was before trade with China. Zenith televisions? Remember them? Motorola started making throw away radios about 1988. Before that you could use the mic cord to repel from a burning building. Walmart made stuff cheaper, and to keep up, manufacturers started making things of lower quality to be cheaper. Later on, there was a kind of backlash on the cheaper craze, and we have Lexus et al to show for it.
  Chances are that your phone was designed to be replaced before or at the end of life of the battery in it. It's not designed to be upgraded or refurbished per se'... just replaced. Your microwave oven is the same, and on and on. Many things manufactured in the last 15 years can't be maintained. Look inside a blender or other such appliance. If a piece of the plastic breaks, it's fucked. Nothing short of a super glue miracle will fix it. Does your car come with a gizmo for reading information from the computer? The typical handyman toolkit from Sears doesn't have a spark plug wrench any more.
  It will take quite a bit to turn the throw away consumer into a maintenance consumer. There are some brand names that still represent value and quality. Hopefully they will see a benefit from all this and other will have learned their lesson about quality.
  Interestingly, computers have not quite run the same gauntlet. Hardware quality has remained about the same. Custom hardware like Compaq still sucks for upgrading etc. but all in, pretty much the same or better quality for systems as in the last 15 years. Software has only improved, no matter how bad it seems some days :)
  Furniture restoration should revive. Home DIY will/is. Computers remain throw away in as much as they always were. New OS available, buy new hardware. This is why I like Linux. It breaks that cycle.
  
  --
  Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
8. Re:A good idea for a show... by scorp1us · 2009-01-06 03:12 · Score: 1
  
  It'll compete with ANTM, but only for the robotic girlfriend episode!
  
  --
  Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
9. Re:A good idea for a show... by Lumpy · 2009-01-06 03:33 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Exactly. Most of it feels like a bunch of guys still high from the last burningman, trying to make a knit hat and gourd into a eco friendly USB Automaton.
  They have some great gems, and I subscribe, but there is a pile of plain old, "what are you smoking" articles and ideas in it.
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
10. Re:A good idea for a show... by evanbd · 2009-01-06 03:42 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  On opening my oscilloscope, you will find a pair of warnings. The large one at the top says "DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE." The one underneath reads "It is desirable that only silver bearing solder be used on the ceramic terminals and for tinning the iron. Ordinary tin-lead solder may be used but repeated use will break the solder-to-ceramic bond. See your instruction manual." Above that is a small roll of silver-bearing solder.
  I wish it was still the case that the owner of a tool was expected to know how to repair and maintain it. Of course, the scope in question is older than I am. For the curious, it's a Tektronix 561A. It uses vacuum tubes. You can find a picture of the insides here.
11. Re:A good idea for a show... by gad_zuki! · 2009-01-06 03:44 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I also am turned off by the hipster attitude and kitsch. How many more TV-begone posts do they need? I mean, is being a jackass that shuts off the TV at a sports bar really that important?
  Or how many more lame PoV projects do we need to see? How many more random LEDs attached to random electronics? How many more times do I need to hear how cool "Steampunk" is? How many more pacman scarves do we need to see?
  There's a lot of potential at Make, but it stems directly from the boingboing tradition of urban American hipsterism thats very off-putting. Its just so provincial. Its really unwelcoming of anyone who isnt under 25 and lives in a big city and self-identifies with the indie rock movement. Heck, half the blog posts are needle and thread craft projects or just art projects, not tech projects.
  Id love to see Make grow up. Perhaps add a section for DIY automobile repairs/hacks/projects and home repairs/hacks/projects. I guess most Makers only ride tricked out bikes and rent.
12. Re:A good idea for a show... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 03:57 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I don't think the good old days were as good as you remember. Everything works better now. Remember Magnum PI's Ferrari? My neighbor's new Camry makes more horsepower than that thing.
  There's nothing magical about surface mount components. They are just as repairable as the old through-the-hole components. It just takes a steadier hand and finer tip on the soldering iron.
  The difference is cost and fashion. I don't throw away much stuff because it is broken. I get rid of it because I don't want it anymore or there is something compelling about the next generation. For example, my old iPod mini has served me well and there is no indication that it is going to fail, but I'm considering getting an iPod Touch.
  If something does break, how do you justify a repair when a replacement costs less? That Zenith television was a significant purchase. Now a 26" panel is an impulse buy for many.
  But don't get me wrong, I would still rather have a 308 than a Camry. You can keep your Zenith though.
13. Re:A good idea for a show... by zappepcs · 2009-01-06 04:00 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Wow, Wish I still had mine. Moving overseas necessitated selling it. Your thoughts on knowing how to repair your tools should go for cars, appliances, homes, etc. I was shopping for a couple of hand tools lately, and was surprised at the number of people who work in tool stores that were confused. I was looking for an 'awl', a leatherworking knife, and and ice pick. Don't ask why, ask why they didn't know what I meant. Things are changing. I'm thinking my wire-twist pliers should be framed? I bought mine for $65 some years ago, and now you can get them for $25. Does anyone know where they might be used in today's world?
  
  --
  Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
14. Re:A good idea for a show... by evanbd · 2009-01-06 04:34 · Score: 1
  
  Oh, my thoughts on the matter extend to most such things.
  Wire twist pliers are still used for safety wire in the aerospace world. They probably will be for some time to come.
  I actually got the scope for free (the company I worked at wanted the shelf space more than the scope, since they had better scopes and no particular use for the old one). Of course, I've replaced a number of the original adjustment pots and electrolytics, since they were starting to show their age. That, cleaning some of the dust out, and running through the manual-specified calibration procedure put it all in working order.
15. Re:A good idea for a show... by zappepcs · 2009-01-06 04:34 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think of those days gone by as particularly good. I'm just saying that things were made differently than they are today. Designed obsolescence is just how things are now. Apple is a hardware maker. An upgradable iWhatever is not in the company's best interest. Part of the problem is a quicker innovation cycle than previously. Part is manufacturing things so they are not upgradeable, never mind repairable. Have you seen any printer repair shops lately? You can still find cobblers, but used PC hardware is a near worthless commodity in the current consumer market. There are many things that are simply not repairable, nor worth paying to get repaired when the cost of a newer model with more features is often less than the repair bill. When repairs are more costly, infrastructure/support for repairs disappears. Think about it, umbrellas are repairable. I've been to umbrella repair shops in Europe. Does anyone in North America even know they can be fixed?
  I don't have a zenith, but I can say I wish things were manufactured for repair, and maintenance. My friend has a large flat screen. The PSU broke. It is now a 75 lb paperweight. In a close to ideal world, that would be a couple of screws to slide the PSU out of the chassis, maybe $200 for the replacement PSU, all fixed. He is being told $1800 and that it might not even fix the problem. Yes, $1800 repair on a $2500 tv. That's just awesome. I think that things should be designed better than that... at least if you want quality to be associated with your name. Of course, since no one actually repairs things anymore, I guess it no longer matters.
  
  --
  Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
16. Re:A good idea for a show... by 0100010001010011 · 2009-01-06 04:37 · Score: 1
  
  Being able to fix SMTs makes me a bit of money on the side. People are seriously scared of them. It's not that hard with a good soldering iron. I use Wellers at work but I bought a very nice base station model for around $40.
  If it's a common problem a quick google will show sites like Make that have the parts and such that you need to fix common stuff. There are dozens of Washer, Drier, Dishwashers, etc DIY websites out there that show you how to do about anything you could want to do to them, including repairing mainboards.
17. Re:A good idea for a show... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 04:41 · Score: 0
  
  That's precisely why they WOULD watch it. People are inherently too lazy to DO, therefore they prefer to WATCH other people DO.
18. Re:A good idea for a show... by WindBourne · 2009-01-06 04:45 · Score: 1
  
  In light of our economy and a need to renew interest in science, It is POSSIBLE that it could replace top model. My guess is that it will require some interesting hosts and a tongue in cheek approach to it (think jon stewart). Heck, there are some bright actors and actresses. Approach one of them to do it.
  
  --
  I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
19. Re:A good idea for a show... by Steauengeglase · 2009-01-06 04:51 · Score: 1
  
  While I can certainly understand your sentiment, I can't exactly give it an Amen.
  The boingboing mentality of adding "punk" to the end of everything does seem like a pointless pursuit and it does annoy me that Make tends to follow boingboing's trend too closely, but I view it as more of a trip and stumble than a downfall. Make simply needs maturation not reprehension.
  For many young Americans, Make is filling a gap that Popular Science and Popular Mechanics haven't filled for them. Some of these people have never even owned cars or at least changed their oil, so for many the idea of reaching for 1/4 ratchet is somehow foreign. They are simply making their way the best way they can. So, I'm glad that O'Reilly has been there to providing some instruction for a generation who were raised to believe that everything is dangerous or illegal. Granted they still have a long way to go.
  Now on the subject of a Make television show, well, I'm 50/50 on it. It should either be focused on younger audiences or have deeper subject matter for adults.
20. Re:A good idea for a show... by Ruie · 2009-01-06 04:56 · Score: 1
  
  There was a time, before surface mount components, when US manufacturers made products to last. Products that were repairable. Products of quality. About the time that surface mount components came along, everything turned to 'throw away' production values.
  Surface mount components are not to blame. They are very desirable when working with high frequencies as you don't have to worry about lead inductance.
  Also, some of them make repairing boards easier - a through-hole component needs much care when removing and after several iterations you can break the pad - let alone through hole cladding. In contrast surface mount caps and resistors can be heated and lifted from their pads many times, I have not screwed up a pad yet.
  The true problem is lack of schematics for devices and the misguided implementation of intellectual property. Misguided because the rewards are thought to come from compromising the most important quality of ideas and information - ease of sharing.
  A proper solution would focus on solving actual problems - providing some stability to companies and people while they do research and insuring wider availability of intellectual products.
21. Re:A good idea for a show... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 05:03 · Score: 0
  
  "Remember Magnum PI's Ferrari? My neighbor's new Camry makes more horsepower than that thing."
  A 2009 3.5 liter Camry puts out 268hp.
  A 1975 Ferrari 308 has 255hp and a 1985 has 270hp. Both are a half-liter smaller than the Camry and preceded it by a couple decades.
22. Re:A good idea for a show... by smellsofbikes · 2009-01-06 05:17 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  It's *hard* to try and carve out a niche where they are. On the one side you have Nuts&Volts, on the other Popular Mechanics.
  What they're aiming at is a group of people who *want* to experiment with interesting science/technology, but own a screwdriver and a closet full of obsolete servers.
  I look at it as a transitional magazine, trying to wean the Popular Mechanics crowd and turn them into the Home Shop Machinist crowd: people who actually can make things.
  But there is a big wide swath of creation that isn't addressed by many other magazines, particularly not mainstream magazines, and that's the hardware/software overlap area where MAKE is working: robotics, automation, and to some extent, art/technology (like Leah Buechley's sweaters knitted with conductive wiring and LED's soldered in so they can become wearable displays, or hardcore art cars).
  The question is: does it make sense, in light of the Internet, to have a magazine that covers this? The material's available on the Internet.
  I think the answer to that is similar to the answer of why do record companies still exist: because it's a way of connecting consumers to producers. You can't Google for things you don't know about, and most people, with TV mentality, just sit in front of the Internet and read about the same things they always have. MAKE brings up brand new things, shows (in some cases) how to build them, and introduces people to stuff they never would have tried. I would never have actually considered making pulsejets, actual thrust-producing, red-hot ones, if I hadn't seen the MAKE jam-jar pulsejet. Likewise I would never have considered actually machining Stirling engines if I hadn't seen the (Dean Kaman-designed?) pop-can Stirling they published. I'd read about both, thought they were cool, but actually seeing a step-by-step on how to build them, was motivational.
  It's easy to dismiss MAKE as kitsch. But the thing is: what's kitsch to YOU is something new and exciting to someone else who hasn't ever built anything more unconventional than a custom PC.
  
  --
  Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
23. Re:A good idea for a show... by MightyYar · 2009-01-06 05:27 · Score: 1
  
  Pffft. You just ain't thinking BIG. Hells, I took my old Trans Am with a blown engine... took a new engine right outta my old rider mower with the rotten deck. Try gettin a more efficient car anywhere in 'merica. Mofo run's on anything, too.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
24. Re:A good idea for a show... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 05:40 · Score: 0
  
  Magnum's car was the American model that made 240hp. You're right though- the engine was 500cc's smaller.
  You're right about the timeline though and that was my point. Engines are getting better in lots of respects. The GP was complaining about the maintainability of modern goods and I was arguing that things are better now than they used to be in many ways, even if you can't fix it yourself.
25. Re:A good idea for a show... by swillden · 2009-01-06 05:46 · Score: 1
  
  As such, the unfortunate consequence is that the move to greater energy efficiency will likely be greatly hampered by the precise trend you've identified.
  But are the newer vehicles, etc. actually enough more efficient to justify the energy cost of building them? There's more than one way to reduce energy consumption, and in general the manufacturing industry is a much heavier user than consumers.
  
  --
  Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
26. Re:A good idea for a show... by ptorrone · 2009-01-06 05:53 · Score: 1
  
  hi gad_zuki! - thanks for the feedback, i'd ask that you consider the following.
  -make is what makers are doing, many folks are learning electronics and kits like the miniPOV are very popular so they are building, hacking and sharing - that said, with over 20,000 posts and thousands of articles in print, there is maybe a dozen at the most of these projects.
  -as far as "DIY automobile repairs/hacks/projects and home repairs/hacks/projects" - please check the site and our past issues. we have "mod your rod" tons of projects for cars, check our site - tons of home repair, hacks and projects.
  right now we are releasing an open source home power project.
  i'd say that there are so many things in MAKE you might miss out if you only see it via other site like boing boing.
  many/most of our makers and audience have never heard of steampunk or pacman scarves, they read the magazine and the site and share their projects and i'd say the average age is 12 and under and 25 and older, but i'd need to really dig in more for an upddated demographic discussion.
27. Re:A good idea for a show... by petgiraffe · 2009-01-06 06:11 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  ...the unfortunate consequence is that the move to greater energy efficiency will likely be greatly hampered by the precise trend you've identified.
  I disagree.
  In the long run old tech will eventually degrade beyond repair and will have to be replaced by whatever is available. Since the old equipment was kept running longer, more advances will have been made by the time the new equipment is purchased. I propose that it is more likely that by leapfrogging from the very old to the very new the energy savings and environmental impact from not manufacturing, transporting, and discarding all the interim equipment will outweigh the inefficiencies of maintaining the old equipment for that duration.
  
  --
  -- The reader anything less than completely failing to not misunderstand this sig is cursed.
28. Re:A good idea for a show... by Abcd1234 · 2009-01-06 06:24 · Score: 1
  
  That may be, but in the case of vehicles, we're talking decades of use before the hardware finally fails. The same goes with some computer hardware (for example, the firewall I use is an old, extremely inefficient PC, and won't be upgraded any time soon).
  As such, if the goal, right now, at this moment, is to move toward more efficient technologies in order to increase energy independence and reduce our impact on the environment, then any trend which encourages continued use of older technology will work precisely against that goal, particularly when you're talking about technology with long lifetimes, such as vehicles.
  Incidentally, I'm not saying this is unequivocally a bad thing. I'm just saying that recycling older gear is also not unequivocally a good thing. Or: there are conditions when, over the long term, recycling may actually cause more harm than good.
29. Re:A good idea for a show... by pspinrad · 2009-01-06 07:10 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks gad_zuki and ptorrone-- I work on the magazine, and like pt said, we have done automobile and car projects-- but want to do many more! Those are both areas where I personally at least feel less knowledgeable and would greatly appreciate any ideas or pointers you or anyone else might have. For example, I would love to start getting into lowriders, and hopefully also get some lowrider clubs to come and exhibit at Maker Faire.
30. Re:A good idea for a show... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 08:08 · Score: 0
  
  Silicon efficiency doesn't follow Moore's law. It's closer to a linear increase. As you make chips smaller, they draw more power and waste more heat when gates aren't in use.
31. Re:A good idea for a show... by ahoehn · 2009-01-06 08:50 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Remember Magnum PI's Ferrari? My neighbor's new Camry makes more horsepower than that thing.
  More horsepower, but far less awesome.
  
  --
  Mod my comments down. It'll be fun.
32. Re:A good idea for a show... by ahoehn · 2009-01-06 08:58 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Id love to see Make grow up.
  Hear Hear!
  I love MAKE, but they are a bit over concerned with making making "cool". Making your arduino chirp every time a new XKCD is posted isn't going to get anyone laid. Let's stop pretending.
  
  --
  Mod my comments down. It'll be fun.
33. Re:A good idea for a show... by Hatta · 2009-01-06 10:24 · Score: 1
  
  I'd be interested to hear your recommendation for a soldering station. I'm interested in replacing my POS radio shack soldering iron with something I can control the temperature and replace the tips for some fine soldering. Mostly for modding game consoles.
  
  --
  Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
34. Re:A good idea for a show... by 0100010001010011 · 2009-01-06 10:45 · Score: 1
  
  I own a Circuit Specialists soldering station:
  http://www.circuitspecialists.com/level.itml/icOid/9258
  I own the CSI-STATION1A which is $40. Replaceable tips. I got a needle point and a broad one and I use it at least once a month for the last year. I probably wouldn't have a problem using it 24/7. Much cheaper than weller and higher quality the cheap knockoffs. I find I get up to temp VERY quickly and it's just an all around solid product.
  CSI-STATION2A has a digital temp display.
35. Re:A good idea for a show... by porcorosso · 2009-01-06 15:08 · Score: 1
  
  In the case of vehicles, my craptacular 2002 Saturn s-series (and my wife's 1996 model) easily gets 36 mpg with an automatic transmission with reasonably proper maintenance. If I watch the lead foot carefully, I can squeeze out around 40-44, especially on extended trips. My friend with the new prius only gets 49-50 on the x-way, although they get in the mid-50's in city driving. My parents and sister with a new Corrolla and Fit get 38ish on the x-way and 30-32 max in the city.
  My car has 75k miles on it and my wife's just rolled over 170k miles. They both run great and look good, too (thanks to the stupid plastic body panels). The only goofy thing is that you have to change the oil every 3000 miles. If you do that and basic maintenance, they will run for a solid 300k miles.
  Taking into account total energy input, my cars beat a new one hands down. They aren't luxury cars by any means, and don't have all the new fangled gadgets, but they're cheap, won't have to have a new hybrid battery pack at 100k miles and get better fuel economy than most of what is put out nowadays.
  I've seen several well done analysis on older cars (and one or two in Mother Earth News ... definitely anti-gas guzzler) and when taking into account all of the embodied energy that goes into manufacturing a car, even an old V-8 LTD does better than a new car.
  In the summer, though, I try to ride my bike (with 2 kids and whatever else we decide to haul) wherever I can. You'd be surprised what you can do with a good bike trailer and an electric hub kit.
  I'm just sayin' ...
  
  --
  
  Silpon Designs
  Scented Paper Products
36. Re:A good idea for a show... by caitsith01 · 2009-01-06 15:39 · Score: 1
  
  Narrator: The depositions had been delayed, but the prosecution was about to get a Lord and Taylor bag full of evidence.
  Detective Munch: We supply the glitter, the glue, the crepe paper and the ready-made template pages for you to decorate and fill out with... "My Favorite Birthday," "Foreign Bank Statements," and of course, "Shh! Family Secrets."
  Narrator: The scrapbooking sting had helped the D.A. gather evidence against people as diverse as Ken Lay, Oliver North, but ironically not Martha Stewart.
  Detective Munch: So dig up whatever you can and remember, photocopies are not admissible as memories.
  Tobias: Uh, sir, Iâ(TM)m going to have to go or our old family storage unit in Reseda.
  Detective Munch: No problem. We can arrange for a helicopter to take you there right now.
  Tobias: Wow, this is the best free scrapbooking class Iâ(TM)ve ever taken.
  
  --
  Read Pynchon.
37. Re:A good idea for a show... by caitsith01 · 2009-01-06 15:43 · Score: 1
  
  we have Lexus et al to show for it
  Do Americans realise that a Lexus is (a) just a Toyota with a different badge and (b) not really regarded as a prestige car outside the US?
  I am constantly taken aback by referenced in US films, TV shows etc to Lexii as though they are a status symbol of some worth.
  
  --
  Read Pynchon.
38. Re:A good idea for a show... by DNS-and-BIND · 2009-01-06 16:31 · Score: 1
  
  "Provincial"? I think you need to look in the dictionary and look up the word...hipsters are hardly "provincial", they are sophisticated and urban. If you feel threatened by this, as it seems you do, then it is quite likely that it is you who are provincial. Let me guess, you must live in a place that has more churches than coffee shops? Do you know people who wear trucker hats...non-ironically? And would it kill you to do a few art projects instead of souping up the American JunkWagonMobile?
  
  --
  Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
39. Re:A good idea for a show... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 21:25 · Score: 0
  
  Anyway, too many people wring their hands about garbage dumps. Today's dumps are tomorrow's oil fields [wikipedia.org].
  Indeed!
  I really can't understand why the oil companies can't just follow the lead of the copyright lawyers. Those lawyers can stand there with their bare faces hanging out, and assert, without cracking a smile, that "author's life plus 70 years is a limit, is it not? Therefore the current term of copyright passes Constitutional muster."
  So the oilies should trumpet their green credentials by advertising that, "Given enough time and pressure, coal, oil and natural gas are all renewable resources.
40. Re:A good idea for a show... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 21:46 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  About the time that surface mount components came along, everything turned to 'throw away' production values.
  You're late, by about forty years, in most respects. I remember being at a party in the late 60s where a Magnavox salesman was gleefully explaining that his company was looking forward to the completely solid-state TVs then being developed. He said it would finally put an end to the home handyman/hobbyist taking the tubes down to the drugstore/hardware store, running them on the tube tester and buying replacements for the bad ones.
  On the other hand, in my kitchen, I have a small Zenith color TV and a Quasar microwave oven, both of which are over 20 years ols and still work perfectly. On the other side of the kitchen is the original GE garbage disposal which is just short of forty years old and looks like new inside. It may be getting close to dieing though, as it has been making a brief noise as it spins down that sound like a bearing going bad. This has been happening for the past five years.
  And as for the old argument about whether used coffee grounds clogged your plumbing or whether the acid in them kept your plumbing clear, we dumped them down for about the first 20 years and not for the subsequent twenty years. No difference in the plumbing performance either way.
41. Re:A good idea for a show... by azenpunk · 2009-01-07 01:44 · Score: 1
  
  natalie portman perhaps?
42. Re:A good idea for a show... by gad_zuki! · 2009-01-07 03:01 · Score: 1
  
  >hipsters are hardly "provincial", they are sophisticated and urban.
  No theyre not. They childish and ignorant. They are barely able to speak outside the confines of comics and bad 80s television shows. I should know, most of my friends are hipsters. Its depressing to talk to a 30-something who only knows Transformers and the latest Steampunk fashion.
  >Let me guess, you must live in a place that has more churches than coffee shops?
  Wrong again. I live in Wicker Park in Chicago. Its hipster central. There's nothing respectable of hipster culture. Its dress up for people who wont grow up. Its conformity while pretending to be non-conformist. Its a manufactured attitude sold by the media. Its really the opposite of DIY and being smart. Its "let someone else tell me what music to like and how to dress and I will just follow along in my finest trucker hat and chain wallet."
43. Re:A good idea for a show... by zappepcs · 2009-01-07 03:52 · Score: 1
  
  I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that has and appreciates quality older products. I still have a component stereo system that is 22+ years old. When I turn up the volume you can see the carpet rippling in front of the speakers, of which I have two pairs. Both speaker sets have been rebuilt several times, and either can hold their own against Bose speakers in terms of perceived quality of sound. I had to rebuild them mostly because you can melt crossovers if you try :)
  I still have several B&D tools that are at least that old, inherited from my dad. All of them working perfectly. My blender of some 15 years would still look as well work perfectly new had the dog not gotten hold of a corner of the lid. Quality products are not so easy to find these days, and it's heartening to hear of others who are more likely to fix than replace an item. I had to finally get a new microwave a few years back. That was a good change as the old one did not have a rotating tray. Some change is good.
  On the disposal, on mine, periodically I dump ice in and let it grind it up. Clears away food and such. A little draino type stuff in with the ice seems to keep everything clear. The wife cleans with bleach in the kitchen also, so that probably helps with the pipe cleaning. Coffee grounds are for the rose bushes.
  
  --
  Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
44. Re:A good idea for a show... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-08 13:33 · Score: 0
  
  There are many things that are simply not repairable, ....
  Most likely because they're designed to be put together efficiently, preferably by robotic tools. If you can make an auto grille that can be snapped into place using special snap-in fittings and by a robot, you're not going to have some grunt set twenty screws, even with a power screwdriver. So what if it takes a $40 tool to disassemble the fittings? All the more reason for the purchaser come into your shop for any required repairs to the grille or behind it.
  As an example, I submit my 87 Toyota pickup. Though you can adjust the headlight aim without removing the grille, you have to remove the entire thing to replace the sealed beam unit. I ended up breaking about half the snap-in fittings getting it out without the specialized tool. Big deal -- I just reattached it with big pan head sheet metal screws coming in from the back.
  Have you seen any printer repair shops lately?
  Yes, there's one around the corner from Ham Radio Outlet on Lawrence Expressway, just off 101, in Sunnyvale, CA.
  Don't blame me -- you asked.
It'll never work by morgan_greywolf · 2009-01-06 01:29 · Score: 5, Funny

I just can't see how you can have very many episodes on Make. Maybe if they threw in autoconf, gcc, and a few other tools, then they could have good show...

--
My blog
1. Re:It'll never work by that+this+is+not+und · 2009-01-06 01:41 · Score: 1
  
  It'll be like the flood of 'battle robots' shows from the late 90s.
  They have a contract that all nerds need to remain off-camera for those shows, don't they? Only the frat-boys allowed on screen.
2. Re:It'll never work by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 01:57 · Score: 0
  
  O Rly?
3. Re:It'll never work by PolygamousRanchKid+ · 2009-01-06 01:58 · Score: 1
  
  It'll be like the flood of 'battle robots' shows from the late 90s.
  This is actually not such a bad idea.
  With an "emacs" robot vs. a "vi" robot, we might be able to finally resolve that issue once and for all.
  Up next, "make" vs. "scons", then "git" vs. "subversion".
  
  --
  Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
4. Re:It'll never work by elrous0 · 2009-01-06 02:00 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Are you kidding? Any show that shows our nation's soon-to-be unemployed masses how to make their own flamethrowers is GOING to be a hit.
  
  --
  SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
5. Re:It'll never work by happy_place · 2009-01-06 02:22 · Score: 1
  
  My first thought was of Makefiles too. I just can't imagine a show based upon that. Still. Make can be mysterious... and it scares most of the guys here... Kinda like the X-files... full of mysterious cross functionality just popping up from nowhere. .foo.bar: tr '[A-Z][a-z]' '[N-Z][A-M][n-z][a-m]' < $< > $@ .c.o: $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -c $< Yeah... I guess that's pretty Scary!! --Ray
  
  --
  http://www.beanleafpress.com
6. Re:It'll never work by HermDog · 2009-01-06 04:03 · Score: 1
  
  I think we can anticipate a lot of production problems with that whole tab requirement....
  
  --
  JADBP
7. Re:It'll never work by shadwstalkr · 2009-01-06 15:05 · Score: 1
  
  I really want to see Norm Abrams building GNU software.
  Always wear your safety glasses while building!
YOU DAWG by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 01:29 · Score: 0

We herd you like Magazines so we put a magazine on your TV so you can read while you read.
1. Re:YOU DAWG by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 01:33 · Score: -1, Troll
  
  We herd you like old 4chan memes so we told you to GTFO AND LURK MOAR FAGGORT
The Do-It-Yourself Spirit by that+this+is+not+und · 2009-01-06 01:33 · Score: 5, Insightful

The whole Make: phenomenon had greater promise than I have seen yielded. Being someone brought up in the era of Popular Electronics, I thought that it would herald a continuation of the hobbyist tradition. However, I have been somewhat disappointed in what I found. Fad gadgets and flashy toys are fine, but remain just an extension of the consumer culture. Where are the schematics? Where is the technical background? Too many Make: articles detail trivial novelty projects.
The spirit of Popular Electronics lives on in Bob Pease, Jim Williams, and yes in wonderful offbeat Don Lancaster.
O'Reilly, I had far greater hopes of thee. Still the best row on my bookcase, of course.
1. Re:The Do-It-Yourself Spirit by that+this+is+not+und · 2009-01-06 01:35 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Oh, and Steve Ciarcia and his Circuit Cellar, of course. How could I have missed mentioning that? Still a great publication. Make: can only hope to be that good. I just don't see the 'genius' anywhere in it's pages.
2. Re:The Do-It-Yourself Spirit by $RANDOMLUSER · 2009-01-06 02:06 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Steve Ciarcia
  
  God, I'd forgotten about him. He's the source of the Best Line Evar (tm):
  
  Q: "Steve, what's your favorite programming language?"
  A: "Solder."
  
  --
  No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
3. Re:The Do-It-Yourself Spirit by ptorrone · 2009-01-06 02:28 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  @that this is not und - every single volume of MAKE has source code, schematics and our site has tens of thousands of electronics articles.
  while you might say some projects are "novelty" they're not - taking apart a child's toy to understand how it works, how it can be modded and documenting all of it is very important. some articles are to spark the minds of future makers, others are "hardcore" and include hundreds of pages of data sheers on on our site, firmware, schematics and more.
  if you'd like i can provide hundreds of examples of extremely complex and well documented projects that include schematics - on a similar note, MAKE has the largest open source hardware online store on the web. every single kit that's OSH is documented on MAKE and has the source / schematics.
  i think you didn't take a good look around or looks at all of MAKE.
4. Re:The Do-It-Yourself Spirit by SpinyNorman · 2009-01-06 02:43 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, I only recently discovered Make magazine, so ordered (rip-off shipping charges - no media mail option) an interesting sounding back issue to see what it was like.
  As you say, it's very light on depth - these generally aren't build-from-scratch projects that require much knowledge or attention span. They're more generally "hardware mashups" designed for instant gratification for the MTV generation. I guess it's a step up from pure consumer culture, but it's hardly really DIY.
  Still, there are some interesting things you can do at this sort of level, and maybe these quick-gratification projects might spark an interest in really getting into electronics or whatever. e.g. One video on their site shows how to make a laser voice transmitter based on a laser pointer - sounds cool, and no doubt fun to use, but all it involved was modulating the laser pointers battery input voltage, hence output intensity, with a transformer attached to a microphone, and using a solar cell connected to a powered speaker as the receiving device.
5. Re:The Do-It-Yourself Spirit by Cornwallis · 2009-01-06 02:55 · Score: 1
  
  I bought MAKE's book on Small Form Factor PCs thinking it would provide some background on modding cases, hardware, etc. Instead, it turns out to feature a handful of projects with, in many cases by the author's own admission, obsolete and unavailable equipment. Avoid it. I've become more disenchanted with Oreilly over this book and MAKE magazine.
6. Re:The Do-It-Yourself Spirit by Muad'Dave · 2009-01-06 03:29 · Score: 1
  
  I have that listed as a programming language on my resume, no kidding. That and 'Chocolate' listed as one of my hobbies/interests.
  
  --
  Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
7. Re:The Do-It-Yourself Spirit by vlm · 2009-01-06 03:39 · Score: 1
  
  The "real DIY" that you're referring to is pretty much based on using wikipedia, google, and downloading manufacturers data sheets. None of that works well in a magazine format.
  On the other hand, a magazine of weird ideas and unusual experiments does provide some fun and inspiration and something to begin moving along the wiki/google/datasheets path. Its difficult to read an issue and not find something new and interesting to think about.
  The intro stuff in Make and "real DIY" complement each other not oppose each other.
  Finally, your phrase "hardware mashup" is a fairly accurate way of looking at engineering design work. Add a little math, some goals a little more complicated than "have some fun", add some economic constraints, and use a heck of a lot more individual components, and its getting pretty close to "real" engineering design work. A magazine about "fun engineering", is not so bad.
  I wish they could do something about the high price.
  
  --
  "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
8. Re:The Do-It-Yourself Spirit by ptorrone · 2009-01-06 03:58 · Score: 1
  
  @vlm - "I wish they could do something about the high price"
  that's good feedback, what price would you like to see for a 200+ page quarterly with minimal ads? do you use the digital edition? do you subscribe? those are lower cost ways of getting MAKE.
  it's possible to get MAKE for less than the cost of just about any magazine/book comparable, we also have discount codes.
  if you don't have any money at all we can work something out and get you some MAKEs, and lastly much of the content is online for free, we do try to run a business so we can continue to do all of this but we're always willing to help out.
9. Re:The Do-It-Yourself Spirit by The+Fun+Guy · 2009-01-06 04:17 · Score: 1
  
  In this comment, and elsewhere in this topic, I notice that you preface your comments with "@parent", to make it clear to whom you are responding.
  Unlike most blogs, which are linear in structure, Slashdot uses a nested comment structure. It is already clear which comment you are responding to, based on the physical position & indentation of your comment.
  This isn't intended as a flame of any sort, it's just that, curiously, your mid-six digit userid # would suggest that you've been around long enough to know this. Is the @parent preface an ingrained habit from other blog environments?
  
  --
  The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. - Mark Twain
10. Re:The Do-It-Yourself Spirit by ptorrone · 2009-01-06 04:26 · Score: 1
  
  you're correct it's a newly formed habit, i'll try and remember not to do that.
11. Re:The Do-It-Yourself Spirit by SpinyNorman · 2009-01-06 04:53 · Score: 1
  
  Finally, your phrase "hardware mashup" is a fairly accurate way of looking at engineering design work.
  I disagree...there's a spectrum, but a lot of the Make projects seem to be closer to systems integration (hardware mashups) than engineering design.
  Contrast with something like Steve Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar... Back in the day I recall Steve doing an Apple II speech synthesizer project, with his starting point being a phoneme to speech IC. Everything else was built/designed around it, from the circuit design and circuit board to the text-to-phoneme software. This is design.
  If Make were to do a speech synthesizer project, I get the impression the flavor of it would be to rip the circuit board out of a TI speak 'n' spell, and connect the keyboard inputs to an Arduino...This is systems integration.
  Not that there's anything wrong with Make magazine - I'm sure may people enjoy it and benefit from it - I was just trying to characterize what it is and what it isn't.
12. Re:The Do-It-Yourself Spirit by tomacorp · 2009-01-06 07:50 · Score: 1
  
  My Make: articles had schematics and circuit explanations. It was difficult to get the schematic graphics to properly scale using vectors instead of bitmaps. I used Open Office for the schematics in This Old Amp, and the magazine's production path kept mangling the vectors. I got better results after I switched to Adobe Illustrator.
  The makezine.com site has a some of the detailed design information that is missing from the magazine. Authors are encouraged to put anything on the web site that was left out of the print article.
13. Re:The Do-It-Yourself Spirit by vlm · 2009-01-06 08:00 · Score: 1
  
  that's good feedback, what price would you like to see for a 200+ page quarterly with minimal ads?
  OK fair enough, a thick, well written magazine seems to deserve a heavier price... Somewhat... The ads are actually pretty cool in that they are very closely targeted toward a "maker mindset" and thus are actually very interesting to me, unlike the ads in most publications.
  Which brings up the good point, that in the old days, america's elite read scientific american, so they had "elite" ad rates, so the magazine was cheap and thick. Now in the modern era, since in my opinion Sci-Am began to suck, not cheap or thick anymore. In your case, since your subscriber profile probably leans extremely toward highly intelligent individuals, engineers, scientists, programmers, technicians, creative types, whom are (on average) highly compensated, and (on average) very influential in their workplace, probably more so than most magazines I've read, given those subscriber characteristics why aren't your ad rates high enough to make the magazine cheap?
  
  do you use the digital edition?
  No
  
  do you subscribe?
  Yes sir and I have every single issue published, on my bookshelf, and its one of the few magazines I keep "permanently".
  
  it's possible to get MAKE for less than the cost of just about any magazine/book comparable,
  I'm just saying, the price is high. I'm picturing some dude picking up a copy at B&N flipping thru it, thinking its cool, and falling over when he sees the cover price. Then again, 2600 isn't cheap and it's thinner. The value per dollar is pretty good, but it's only available in big chunks of dollars.
  How about thinner issues, more often? Might make it more "interactive". Or give up the "issue" idea and just call it a serial book or a series of books or something like that.
  I overall like it anyway, and you got my money so I guess that's good enough for my case...
  
  --
  "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
14. Re:The Do-It-Yourself Spirit by vlm · 2009-01-06 08:32 · Score: 1
  
  that's good feedback, what price would you like to see for a 200+ page quarterly with minimal ads?
  I hate to give two replies to the same comment, but I came up with a better answer.
  When I got MAKE, my wife thought I was crazy to pay $$.$$ for one copy of a magazine, because to her the magazine industry has moved and magazine now means stuff like Electronic Design and Communications Technology which I get for free because I'm me (although I would pay just to get Bob Pease's column), or those womens magazines that are entirely ads, complementary copy, and a little scare-mongering. So she thinks something called a "magazine" with that kind of price is crazy.
  But I thought it was a fair deal for a high quality, high end printing, soft cover book, somewhat more interesting than your average book, that is also a little cheaper than you'd expect because it has some ads, but its OK that it has some ads, because they are actually interesting and relevant. I'd probably have been willing to pay more for that "book" (but don't go raising your price, OK?)
  So, do you wanna try and market the worlds most expensive magazine that's worth every penny, or try to market a high-quality paperback book that costs less than most would expect? If you wanna call it a magazine, expect people to complain about the high price, and if you call it a paperback technical manual containing numerous short essays, expect people to compliment you on it's low price. It's all how you would prefer to talk about it. That's my free advice, worth every penny.
  
  --
  "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
15. Re:The Do-It-Yourself Spirit by ptorrone · 2009-01-06 09:42 · Score: 1
  
  hey, thanks for this - i may agree or disagree but not matter what i will pass this along to our team. thanks vlm, and thanks for supporting MAKE.
16. Re:The Do-It-Yourself Spirit by ptorrone · 2009-01-06 14:09 · Score: 1
  
  we actually might make this a shirt, i'm not kidding either.
  http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmtorrone/3175456884/
17. Re:The Do-It-Yourself Spirit by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 16:19 · Score: 0
  
  I have that listed as a programming language on my resume, no kidding. That and 'Chocolate' listed as one of my hobbies/interests.
  I once took a LaMaze class with my wife before my second child was born. It was sponsored by the local high school district adult education division, so we had to fill out a log form stating why we were taking it (job advancement, career change, personal enhancement, etc.), prior education, hobbies, and such. By the time I got to the hobbies at the end, I was pretty bored, so I listed reading Elizabethan poetry and falconry. Well, at least the teacher got a chuckle out of it.
MAKE insults real engineering by Gothmolly · 2009-01-06 01:33 · Score: 0, Redundant

I cancelled my subscription when I read the article about adding a PID controller chip to an espresso machine. The author of the article used an off-the-shelf IC designed for the task. He was quite glib about saying how much he didn't understand PID control, but was assured that the chip handled it, so there was no reason to get bogged down in the details. Sorry, but the mechanics of PID control are not just 'details'. Make is decidedly un-intellectual.

--
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
1. Re:MAKE insults real engineering by RMH101 · 2009-01-06 01:49 · Score: 1
  
  Have you posted this before? I swear I've had the weirdest deja vu reading this.
2. Re:MAKE insults real engineering by ptorrone · 2009-01-06 01:56 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  @gothmolly - "real engineers" and people doing "real engineering" usually agree that every single component does not need to be 100% understood top to bottom, especially in task based learning. in time some components will be explored more, others may not.
  sometimes it's more about the output for the specific task - the point is that it was the right choice for this project and the article was about a task (espresso machine) not about PID control, but we didn't just stop there. there are many PID resources on MAKE and many PID projects.
  the articles *do* have many resources for PID, but in print, where space is limted, we utilize our site - that's where we can expand upon topics.
3. Re:MAKE insults real engineering by morgan_greywolf · 2009-01-06 01:58 · Score: 1
  
  Sadly, most home espresso machines sold today already use a PID controller chip to maintain temperature.
  
  --
  My blog
4. Re:MAKE insults real engineering by ptorrone · 2009-01-06 02:00 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  @RMH101 - every time MAKE is mentioned on /. it appears that this person (sometimes anonymously) posts the same thing over and over.
5. Re:MAKE insults real engineering by geekmux · 2009-01-06 02:07 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  I cancelled my subscription when I read the article about adding a PID controller chip to an espresso machine. The author of the article used an off-the-shelf IC designed for the task. He was quite glib about saying how much he didn't understand PID control, but was assured that the chip handled it, so there was no reason to get bogged down in the details. Sorry, but the mechanics of PID control are not just 'details'. Make is decidedly un-intellectual.
  Trust me when I say that MAKE probably does a better job communicating with the layman than the average Engineer does. This is why you find only a small portion of the population is stout enough to handle the "devil in the details" with EE/ME work. If the project works in the end without blinding detail minutiae, then so be it.
  I look towards MAKE for fun with my kids, not to find an intellectual endgame, which I can find at work.
6. Re:MAKE insults real engineering by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 02:29 · Score: 0
  
  So sorry that make isn't Electronics Now.
  Those of us that preferred Popular Electronics like MAKE. Perhaps you would prefer to read Nuts and Volts?
  HAND.
7. Re:MAKE insults real engineering by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 03:07 · Score: 0
  
  I assume you aren't trolling because what you write is in part true, but keep in mind that Make and similar magazines/websites aren't aimed at people who are studying as engineers but to others who due to lack of alternatives would usually play games or fry their brain watching wrestling or their ears listening to their "ubercool" new 2000 Watts car stereo. Then, 10 years later, become burgerflippers at McDonalds for lack of education.
  I also knew and experienced a lot of those tricks and hacks presented as new, save the microcontroller related ones of course, when I was 10, that's 30 years ago, but if they're also recycling old backyard science it's not their fault, but parents who forget what they've been taught and don't pass this knowledge to their kids, leaving instead them in front of the TV or games console.
  Make isn't a substitute for real science classes, but something that will help kids want to take them. From this point of view I'd say it can be of great service.
8. Re:MAKE insults real engineering by smellsofbikes · 2009-01-06 05:36 · Score: 1
  
  It's silly to try to explain everything 100%. People who already know the material aren't building things from MAKE: they're building their own stuff. People who don't know the material aren't going to sit through the re-presentation of "The Art Of Electronics", all 1125 pages (including index) of it. Learn by doing.
  So it becomes a jumping-off point, like Wikipedia: a gateway to learning, with the added advantage of highlighting specific projects, pointing people in specific directions that they would be unlikely to find or actually play with.
  It's my favorite mag. Thanks for making it.
  
  --
  Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
9. Re:MAKE insults real engineering by Gothmolly · 2009-01-06 09:33 · Score: 0
  
  If you go through life, or your design career, just sort of understanding the parts and doing something because the packaging claims it will work, you are, and will remain, a hack.
  My complaint is that MAKE started off with these big aspirations about being a geek magazine, and quickly turned into either a "buy this from ThinkGeek" or "assemble this from Heathkit" 'lite' version.
  
  --
  I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
10. Re:MAKE insults real engineering by ptorrone · 2009-01-06 09:39 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  gothmollly, perhaps some might go through life not understanding how everything works and you're free to call them hacks, but all the evidence i have is that people who do the projects in MAKE go on to learn more, understand how things work but they needed to start somewhere.
  parents, teachers and kids tell us all the time that MAKE is how they got started in science and engineering, we've been around for 5 years and we're seeing the results now. i can't 100% prove that we're teaching everyone, everything - but there is evidence we are doing some good.
  we certainly are not a "buy this" site, magazine or tv show. i don't think we even cover thinkgeek. that said, thinkgeek has some cool kits lately, nothing wrong with that at all.
here's a better idea: by larry+bagina · 2009-01-06 01:38 · Score: 0, Offtopic

How about a slashdot based on news for nerds, or stuff that matters?

--
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
You shouldn't make by SebaSOFT · 2009-01-06 01:47 · Score: -1, Offtopic

advertising articles . . .
1. Re:You shouldn't make by Cornwallis · 2009-01-06 02:12 · Score: 0
  
  Agreed! ptorrone (look at all the self-promoting posts) is the editor of MAKE. Hardly MAKES me want to buy the magazine.
2. Re:You shouldn't make by ptorrone · 2009-01-06 03:00 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  @Cornwallis - that's your choice, what i've found is that talking to other makers and folks online is usually more helpful than not participating. i'd love if everyone editor at every magazine participated more online. we get great feedback, lots of makers contact us this way and i think it's important for folks to know we're out there. slashdot has been my home page for 10+ years, i've submitted projects that celebrate making things, cool engineering, science - without slashdot i doubt i would have ended up working with MAKE, it's all connected.
  perhaps i'm used to what we do a MAKE now, the makers submit their own projects and we post them up in the their own words, i think slashdot is doing that more as more people make things and share their projects here directly.
  i always disclose who i am, if you don't want to buy MAKE that's ok, but please give us a try and feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions or want a preview version of the digital edition.
3. Re:You shouldn't make by Shadyman · 2009-01-06 03:40 · Score: 1
  
  I would harly call ptorrone's posts self-promoting, more like self-defending...
  
  I don't see why all the negativity towards a magazine that brings electronics/mechanical/etc hacking to the masses in this throw-away society with the hopes of reusing things before they hit the landfill.
  
  /Disclaimer: I'm NOT related to MAKE Magazine or any of its employees.
4. Re:You shouldn't make by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 04:29 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, this post and thread are shamelessly self-promoting. I was ambivalent toward MAKE before (light content with a lot of graphic design rubbed on it), but now I just see it as overhyped hipster LEGOs. It's not a place for the hardcore, but it's super neat if taping a LED to a watch battery is your idea of a project.
5. Re:You shouldn't make by ptorrone · 2009-01-06 04:40 · Score: 1
  
  i'd love to see more editors at magazines, sites, videos get involved in the slashdot community. i know that some of my friends thinks it's a waste of time to participate here all these years, but there are many great things to discover.
  there's a lot of good things happening in the comments but sometimes people state things that aren't accurate and it's really our job to at least offer up our point of view and facts for other to read and decide for themselves. there is legitimate cheers and jeers for anything you put out there - i guess i would challenge folks to be as passionate about the positive things as well as the negative things they see in what people make.
6. Re:You shouldn't make by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 05:04 · Score: 0
  
  i'd love to see more editors at magazines, sites, videos get involved in the slashdot community.
  Not if it means more self-promoting crap like this.
  
  The door is over there. Don't let it hit you.
7. Re:You shouldn't make by SebaSOFT · 2009-01-06 06:59 · Score: 0
  
  First: thanks for the karma (no)
  Second, I tough it was clear that I was pointing out that if we all start to put advertising articles of our little (or big) enterprises in Slashdot, it would loose the community feeling in favour of a classified ads board. Regards.
You Tube Shorts by Canazza · 2009-01-06 02:12 · Score: 4, Informative

MAKE magazine have been doing Youtube shorts for quite a while now, which in itself is just bits of the magazine 'acted out' in fast motion, while leaving out a couple of details, like exact measurments for some things, or model numbers - refering you instead to the magazine (which you have to go buy)
The fact they have a TV show means it'll probably be just an extension of this philosophy and - call me cynical - will just be another advertising platform (confirmed by the fact that being able to 'view the TV show' links at the top send you to the MAKE Youtube shorts channel)

--
It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
1. Re:You Tube Shorts by ptorrone · 2009-01-06 02:32 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  @Canazza - yah that is pretty cynical. go to makezine.tv and you'll see every single part of the show is available for download, there's also full HD downloads as well a direct link to the entire show and there are torrents starting.
  we do not leave out details, we do optimize for the format we are in, in print we suggest folks visit our site for downloads, in video we suggest folks visit our site for a schematic. all of these things work together and we give it away for free. we'd love if you bought a magazine, a kit or visited our maker faire, but it's not required to build the projects we have on Make: television.
  the links to youtube, blip and vimeo go to our video channel, these have additional videos we do that are not part of the TV show, it didn't make sense to do a new channel just for the show, we want everyone to see all we have to offer.
2. Re:You Tube Shorts by tcoop25 · 2009-01-06 03:01 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Also worth noting is that if you subscribe via iTunes they include a PDF version of the actual magazine article. Too many of you are confusing the intent of MAKE. If you are an electrical engineer, this may not be the magazine for you (try Nuts and Volts). If you only want robotics articles, go for SERVO instead. This magazine does a good job of showing you how to build a certain project without turning into a textbook. In many instances I have used MAKE to get me interested in something, and then I branch out from there. The magazine is almost cover to cover content as well, as they have very little ad space. There is a growing market for the DIY, especially in electronics. Just look at the success of the Arduino, and Sparkfun.com.
3. Re:You Tube Shorts by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 03:20 · Score: 0
  
  Do the shows have subtitles? I tried viewing some of the youtube ones, which did not...
4. Re:You Tube Shorts by ptorrone · 2009-01-06 03:26 · Score: 1
  
  good question, i'll need to see what's possible for subtitles across all the video properties we posted the show - we might need some help adding them, if anyone is interested let me know.
Don't forget Miro by ruin20 · 2009-01-06 02:16 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm pretty sure the TV show has been available there longer than on itunes and what not. Of course just about all of Blip.tv is available on Miro, as well as just about any rss delivered video.
Although I hate miro as software, I have to give them credit for getting the concept right (Tivo for internet TV) and having a great library of content feeds (including MAKE and most of the TED series) which makes me happy enough to use it despite it's resource hogging and glitches.

--
Oh honey look... How cute... an angry slashdotter!
1. Re:Don't forget Miro by Rude+Turnip · 2009-01-06 02:39 · Score: 1
  
  Miro could replace iTunes if it offered streaming capability.
  
  --
  Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
2. Re:Don't forget Miro by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 05:49 · Score: 0
  
  You could have included Makezine's Miro subscribe link. For karma and shit.
Homer the Heretic by ciderVisor · 2009-01-06 02:37 · Score: 1

Marge: "I'm going to ask you one last time. Are you sure you wont come with us to church ?"

TV Announcer: "Coming up next: make your own ladder !"

Homer: "Very sure."

--
Squirrel!
Make is an odd niche by stokessd · 2009-01-06 02:58 · Score: 3, Interesting

Make is not a hardcore magazine that delves deeply into a few areas like "Glass Audio" or "Speaker Builder" tried to do (and sort-of failed at). But rather a liberal arts type of approach where you get a basic understanding of a wide range of topics.
The above mentioned (and beat to death) PID example is a good illustration of this. Another 12 pages could have been consumed with a cursory introduction to PID control, but they used that space for another project.
They have a target audience and I suspect are doing quite well hitting that target. But my projects tend to be a bit deeper and more involved than I see on the pages of Make. Shameless plugging: Electrostatic Loudspeakers with active crossover built from scratch. Allegro based stepper driver built from scratch. Etc (http://quadesl.com).
I let my subscription lapse because it was too fluffy. No I don't want to litter LED thowies everywhere. No I already made 2 liter bottle water rockets in jr high school. They have too many of these sort of projects and not enough hard hitting "worthy" projects like these:
http://www.softservice.com.pl/corolla/avc/
http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~willie/lvr.html
http://www.thebackshed.com/cnc/OtherMachines1.asp
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
But that's just my preference, and I'm already a "Maker" I suppose. They just aren't quite my demographic.
Sheldon
1. Re:Make is an odd niche by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 04:36 · Score: 0
  
  It sounds like you found an interest and dove in. Congratulations on actually developing your knowledge base and skill set.
upcycle by Anonymous Coward · 2009-01-06 03:51 · Score: 0

Upcycle? What the hell... Wikipedia says upcycle refers to using "waste materials" to "provide new products." I fail to see how this is a useful refinement of recycling, which refers to "processing used materials into new products." What a stupid buzz-word.
BitTorrent of the show is here... by ptorrone · 2009-01-06 06:14 · Score: 2, Interesting

here's a torrent of the show for those interested, it wasn't in the article/post but there is one:
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2009/01/bittorrent_of_make_television_episo.html