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Class Teaches Nerds Social Skills
PeterAitch writes "According to Reuters, Potsdam University in Germany is now teaching social skills as part of their IT courses. This is intended to 'ease entry into the world of work'. The 440 students enrolled in the master's degree course will learn how to write flirtatious text messages and emails, impress people at parties and cope with rejection(s)." The class is taught by a superficial model, who will fall in love with the nerdiest student at the end of the semester after realizing that he is beautiful on the inside.
I don't think there's a response to this news article that could be better than the parent's.
It must suck if/when you fail it though....
I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
Where was this course when I went to college.
Social Intelligence is a skill that can be taught and learned. That is how most people get it although somewhat unconsciously. Inherent personality does play a role which is why "Nerds" have to work harder at learning it.
Because the majority of the world runs on Social IQ more than we like to admit.
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget." -Thomas Szasz
ProTip: Nerds are not that way because most, or even because a majority, have assburgers syndrome. They just don't care. They've convinced themselves they are above the rest of the world with their little societal rules. There is no disease or disorder, they're just stupid.
As a corollary, having Asperger's syndrome is not cool. It's not a badge of honour. It's not something to be proud of. If you are, you don't have it.
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
When it comes to "hot chicks" and being rejected, just remember...
Somewhere, someone is tired of her shit.
I'm a satanic clam.
Aspergers is the psychiatry honeypot of the next decade. It's a measure of the confusion when you get an economy that screams "specialize" with a guy too busy specializing to talk to babes and catch bass off the coral reef.
But since all four of the major economic industries just melted, specialization will be the way to survive, in weird little eddy current niches.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Add to the list - work out.
Seriously, people underestimate the importance of looking buff. In undergrad, I was a skinny guy (I used to play in a metal band, which was considered cool by some chicks, but I was still skinny).
Somewhere after grad school, I discovered the gym and sports that I enjoyed (rock climbing, for one). And once I started bulking up, I was amazed at the attention that women give you. To all the geeks out there -- buff up. Stop eating junk, eat healthy, work out regularly, run, get good abs and build some muscle.
You'd be amazed at how much better your chances are. Especially in summer.
This will be about as good for them as "Change Your Underwear, Change Your Life," and similar self-help books. Most of what people call "social skills" problems really boils down to self-esteem. I've been to more than a few support groups, talked to a lot of people about their childhood and adolescent learning experiences, coached people on interviewing skills... I don't have a degree as a therapist, but at least in my social circle I'm the go-to girl (for better and for worse!). That said, don't take what I have to say as the gospel -- it's just my own point of view.
First, there's nothing wrong with so-called "nerds", "geeks", or many other classes of people that are bright, insightful, but often shy and hard to approach. They are rarely rude, they don't insult people, they respect another's boundaries if told directly. About the only thing "wrong" with them is that they miss subtlety and sometimes lack tact. Frankly, there's a lot more wrong with people who consider themselves to have "great social skills" than those who don't -- those people are often manipulative, petty, morally underdeveloped, and often destroy group harmony to further their own ambitions. For the girls, I have two words: Queen bee. Guys who have these "great social skills" are often egotistical, inconsiderate, etc. My friends call it the "napoleon complex", after a certain short guy in history who had a real problem with the word "no."
I guess what I'm saying to the people who think their social skills have the suck... Stop beating yourself up. Contary to popular belief, none of us start out equal. And throughout life we never become equal. Trying to move towards normality is like trying to... Well, it's like the Kobashi Maru, you just can't win. So stop trying. Normal doesn't even exist. If you want these mythical social skills--Go someplace where you think there are others like you (or others who you'd like to be like if your self-concept isn't that developed) and listen to them. Watch, learn, interact. What movies do they watch? What phrases do they say? What little gestures do they make? Reason out what it all means and then practice it on your friends and anyone else you can. And don't judge yourself for awhile -- just go out and try things for a bit. The judging part everyone else will do for you (*trust me on this*), so focus on doing it instead of reviewing it. This isn't a question to be answered, but one to be lived. Someday you will find yourself experiencing the answer.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
You know what I want?
Logic skills taught to those people who have "social skills"
While I can understand the desire to teach social skills, I wish people would stop thumping on people with strong technical abilities.
For example, say you are a born classical musician, and are quite good. They would say you are cultured and have everything life needs. YET, if the same happened to a mathematician, well then they are not balanced.
Really? Not knowing how to calculate yourself out of a wet paper bag is balanced?
So sure I will take social skills, so long as the others take logic skills.
MAYBE THEN we have rational discussions....
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
Have you been around kids?!? My experience (YMMV) is that yes, kids DO have to be taught to take a bath, speak clearly, and say please/thank you. It's hard for parents to get them to do that, and many of today's parents don't bother (perhaps because they incorrectly think that all kids will figure it out without being taught). The result is kids who are absolutely not ready for "real life". Forget the flirting; a class in the "basics of living in a society" (to raise your social IQ) is a really, really useful course. Stuff like bathing, having a brief conversation with someone you don't know, etc. Historically, the people who were getting ready to lead society went to finishing schools, took etiquette classes, etc. Some of it was bunk, but the basic idea that you need TRAINING to be able to work in a society is true enough. Self-taught can work, if you work at it... but too many people don't realize it's something that needs to be learned.
In Neal Stephenson's "The Diamond Age", a key part of the book was "A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer". Being able to work with others - instead of offending them before you meet them - is a good idea.
- David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)
And when it comes to "nerds" and being rejected, just remember...
Everywhere, everyone is tired of his shit.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Asperger's is not a disease, nor is it a mental deficiency, nor are the people who supposedly have it 'stupid' (do you think someone who thrives on social situations doesn't think he's above a nerd?). That kind of thinking comes from the flawed assumption that there's a class of "normal" people, and anyone exhibiting behaviors not part of this class must have something wrong with them. Truth is there is no such thing as "normal", there's only an average, and I don't find those concepts to be the same at all.
Asperger's is a behavioral difference, that's all. Some people thrive on social relationships, most people enjoy them, some people find them to be a chore. Those people thrive on independence, spending an evening by themselves doing whatever they're interested in is as invigorating for them as a night on the town for a socialite. Big deal.
On the one hand we all accept that people are different, and on the other hand we expect them all to be the same. It's confusing. Lets just go with the first one and stop expecting everyone to exhibit the same social behaviors, shall we?
Murphey's fighting Occam, and we're in the stands.
Amen, brother. Every time I see a woman who is immaculately dressed and made-up, the same thoughts go through my head:
Of course there's also the (even more important) fact that somebody who spends that much time and energy on their appearance clearly thinks their importance is crucially important. In some cases (not all, of course) this will be to the detriment of other qualities like, you know, being an interesting or pleasant person.
For example, say you are a born classical musician, and are quite good. They would say you are cultured and have everything life needs. YET, if the same happened to a mathematician, well then they are not balanced.
Really? Not knowing how to calculate yourself out of a wet paper bag is balanced?
Not all humans are mathematically-inclined, or even intelligent enough to understand basic math concepts.
All humans are social creatures, from you all the way down the world's stupidest. "Cultured" is the term that people use to describe those who are best at winning approval from others. I understand why you resent it and hold those people in contempt. They didn't have to work nearly as hard as you had to work, and yet they have more than you do. It hurts.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
Ah yes, and one reason so many geeks ignore this seems to be that they're assuming that when females they know say "looks aren't important" and "I think six-pack abs are gross" they actually believe that their female friends aren't being manipulative and essentially playing mind games.
Summary: Most "real geeks" (not "I play video games and call myself a geek") tend to assume people are being honest since they fail to see any logical reason for lying about something like one's preferences when it comes to body type, hairstyles and such...
/Mikael
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
ITT - superficial snap-judgements.
Only those with mental retardation or other conditions keeping them from having a fully functioning brain fall under the category of "unable to understand basic math or logic". Those people are not expected to understand these concepts because we realize that due to crap circumstances beyond their control, they're physically incapable of it. However, all the idiots in Hollywood, at the jock table, the cheerleaders, etc ARE capable of learning basic math and logic, they CHOOSE not to because "it's not cool" and since for so many people (at least in the Western world) their goal is to be cool, they choose to be morons....and we all see where that's leading our society....
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
So I guess a guy who spends 99% of his day behind his xbox/computer and hasnt taken a bath in the last 2 weeks is any better?
in my opinion, it is all about balance... Learning to be technical, but also learning to have good communications skills. Also, learning about basic hygiene and what society sees as acceptable is not bad to know either.
"Hot" women, as you call them, are almost always allot more insecure than normal looking peers. Meaning, they spend so much time because they are trying to compensate for feeling inferior in some way. They are also exceptionally easy to date if you know how to approach them, and are experienced enough that you never get rattled. Also, looks are not as important as they are played to be... Confidence and a good understanding of how to read/react to body language are the most important attributes..
I'll preference this quick with my own bias. I've gone though life as an above average looking geek. I base that on the amount of relative attention I've gotten from the opposite, and sometimes the same and while thx guys-not my cup of tea, sex. And notice I said attention not necessarily action. That is because...
As someone pointed out social IQ has a lot to do with what happens 'in life'. How does this social IQ get formed? Well by in large I believe it is done naturally as people grow up. We are very social animals and so normally a lot of trial and error shapes the way that people learn to interact. However 'geeks' and other social recluses go one of, and there may be more but these are the two that I have noticed, two ways.
1. They remove themselves from socializing to an extreme degree.
2. They are involved in socializing activities but over think everything.
I personally am a bit of #1, I am a geek after all that code/PCB/story/whatever wasn't going to write/build itself. But mostly after many years of introspection, go figure, it's been #2. In most situations normal people, and I feel really dirty writing that because it could easily be a put down or myself bragging but have to express it some way so blah, don't think about what they might do or say. They instead will just act upon it. Those that actually learn by that trial and error method are those who become normal people.
Now keep in mind there are those normal people who don't even learn from that normal trial and error method. And I damn sure know that there are plenty of people out there who are socially backwards without the backup of even being smart. The damming thing about being smart and socially backwards is that you know that your being socially backwards but feel helpless do do anything about it.
So anyway back on point for those people who over think things in social settings I wonder if any course is going to help. Seems to me like it would just reinforce that mentality. Rather as a number of people have said they need to actually go out and socialize. Even at the risk of being uncomfortable and making a bit of a fool out of themselves.
Keeping in mind that that those normal people already did it and made fools out of themselves too, but just did it in the get out of being a dolt free zone of being young. And finally that being even pretty good at being a social creature never removes the chance of being a fool. Rather just reduces that risk. (Of course some of my better memories involve being rather foolish.)
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
This point can NOT be overemphasized. In the 'real world'...quite often, in addition to who you know (#1 importance), how you present yourself and people skills, will outweigh your raw tech. talent. Me? I'm not that good...never have been. My degree was in biochem....I missed med school a couple of times, and kinda 'fell' into IT while learning to make a relational database with gui from Foxpro for med. research while trying to get in. I've gone from there through jobs...till I'm now doing consultant work, usually from my own company...specializing in DBA and data design work. Are there people more skilled than I? YOu bet!!
But, over the years...being able to speak well, NOT being shy about getting up in front of people and presenting...have carried me further than people I know that are tech wizards...but, are scared to speak out in a room full of 3 people (including them).
Knowing how to work with people. Having the ability to think and learn on your feet....will help out the most. This gets you IN the door, and of course, you have to be able to learn and do when you get there. But, also....it often doesn't have to be the prettiest way to do it, or most elegant solution. Get it done...get it to work...and get it turned in and have it succeed on time. No...I'm not talking bad code...but, say if you are behind, if you have good people skills, etc...you can explain the deal, and get more time, understanding....etc.
""Hot" women, as you call them, are almost always allot more insecure than normal looking peers. Meaning, they spend so much time because they are trying to compensate for feeling inferior in some way. They are also exceptionally easy to date if you know how to approach them, and are experienced enough that you never get rattled. Also, looks are not as important as they are played to be... Confidence and a good understanding of how to read/react to body language are the most important attributes.."
Confidence...is a key one here. Took me a LONG time to figure out. Be confident...slightly aloof, and a little self centered. It helps to get them. If you have to fake it...do so. Again, being able to 'put a face on'...is a people skill that will help you get laid too.
The subtle body language and signs women put out there?
I gotta admit....I'm completely lost on this one. I just never see or read them....I've had friends that are good at it...ask me what the deal was with "X" ...did I get some. And often I tell them I had no idea....so, I do try to keep friends around that can read the clues..at least initially...I use them as translators..hahaha.
But yeah..that body language women often put out, if it is shy of carrying a sign, or physically putting her hands down your pants is the toughest thing to read, IMHO.
But, if you can act confidently and fake it...that will carry you a long way.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I always find it amusing when people reference "The Game," as some sort of getting-laid gospel, considering Strauss ends up making the pick-up artists look like total losers by the end of the book. By the end of the book, the message seemed to be to live life, have fun, and not sweat how much you're getting laid. But that may be my interpretation of it.
"...fact they cry to me every week about these bums they cater to..." and all those nice guys out there are invisible to them. As I said, a jerk with a bike and good abs win. I've buried 4 nice guys that couldn't take it (Not literally, I only went to one funeral).
One who wife left him for his boss. He shot himself in the face.
One who couldn't get a date at all (as in ever) and after graduating U of M jumped off the Stillwater rail bridge. His note read "What good is knowledge when you are alone."
One former Co-Worker in Minneapolis at 35 gave up and drank himself to death (GI bleedout, vomited up the blood, not a plesant way to die..)
One who despite being good looking lost the girlfriend to a "more exciting guy" who promptly beat her on a regular basis. She runs back to Mr. Nice, then when the loser got out of prison, she ran back to the abuser. Nice guy drove 70 mph into a bridge column in Woodbury with no seat belt.
The world is hurtling towards a rather lonley place at breakneck speeds.
There was a poet\writer from the early 40s that once said:
"The older we get, the fewer good people there are. Good people marry their childhood sweethearts and live happily-ever-after. Then hour by hour, day by day, there are fewer and fewer; and those that remain have more and more luggage they bring. Then when they are finally ready for that Mr. or Ms. Nice they have so much luggage that Mr. or Ms. Nice would rather die alone then deal with the mistakes of those that now late in life come around. I fear that the generations to come will suffer their parents misdeeds and the cycle will get worse rather then better."
I couldn't imagine being out there dating anymore, too old to put up with such nonsense. I need character in a person and so few, if any it seems, possess it. Perhaps I've seen the worst, but I haven't seen much in examples that show me otherwise. Why are dating sites overflowing with people that can't find someone? Because there aren't any 'people' out there anymore, just parisites looking for a host.
We crafted our own hell here on Earth with no one to blame but ourselves and the fact we need classes now for simple human interaction means we've hit about rock bottom. Perhaps there is hope, there would appear to be only one way to go now.. up.
I gave up on people as a whole a long time ago I suppose, hope doesn't spring eternal unfortunately. I've just seen too much to put any faith in people. Perhaps it's just here in Minnesota, if so say away from this place. Just makes me sick... it's just so sad how people not only treat others, but how they treat themselves. I just can't stomache it. A world of mercenaries with the battle cry "It's all about me"
Just sad...
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
That kind of thinking comes from the flawed assumption that there's a class of "normal" people
There are people who are within one standard deviation of the mean, and there are those who are not.
anyone exhibiting behaviors not part of this class must have something wrong with them
That's not flawed so much as it's an admittance that society relies on the ability for people to make assumptions about other people. I assume that if I stick my hand up in the air after you've done something good, you'll slap it and we'll both acknowledge it as a "high 5". If I go out in public, I wear clothes and you don't beat me up. Things like that. When people can't make these assumptions about other people, or where these assumptions start to fall apart, you get problems. Nerds (like myself) tend to not be clued into these assumptions and unspoken rules, probably because we're just dumb when it comes to social interactions the same way that we're smart when it comes to math and science. Honestly, math and science come easy to me in ways that most other people never understand. The inverse is true with social skills: I don't get why it comes so easy to people.
So, while I find myself in that minority that doesn't interact very well socially, I've been able to make do enough that I can interact with people and can pass my quirks off as jokes most of the time. I'm eccentric as hell, but people tend to like me. I also understand why these judgments are made and the value they give to society.
Just one viewpoint, take it or leave it.
Aspergers is to the body language and subtle social cues that define 2/3 of human communication as blindness is to vision or deafness is to sound. Only on the outside, no one knows you have an impaired perception. You don't get cut the slack that the person signing or the guy carrying the cane would.
You constantly monitor yourself every second to make sure you don't do anything wrong. You're labelled as weird, or rebellious, rude, or unpleasant to be around because you can't perceive the messages people are trying to send you. You have few friends because whatever secret magical language that's being spoken to generate new connections with people you totally miss. Many attempts you make to reach out to people end in disaster, and you can't for the life of you understand what the hell it is that you're doing wrong.
Those lonely nights spend in front of a computer are ones you'd probably rather spend hooking up with a girl you met at a bar instead of learning the intricacies of Yacc or device drivers. And it drives you absolutely fucking insane that everyone else is in on the fuck-fest that is life except you.
Amen to most of the above. I don't know how it affects/is applied by others in this situation, but for me it exhibits as an overriding concern for rules and rulesets. It's taken me about twenty five years to accumulate enough rules to get by in most interactions. There are times however when don't have good rules, and I stumble.
This fixation on rules has engendered a wealth of misunderstandings, ostracization and ridicule, mostly because the others don't realize that my socially awkward actions are based on something more fundamental than simple rudeness.
One effect I have noticed with my personal changes is that I am often underestimated by others, probably because my fitting in makes me appear harmless and somewhat uninteresting. So be it. Small price to pay to be involved.
The ever-larger rulesets can be a trial as well, until I realized that I can dispense with them at need.
The biggest frustration is to have the right answer/response, and being utterly unable to communicate it properly; a big (possibly the biggest) advantage is that after all this practice it is relatively easy to learn the appropriate accents, colloquialisms, speech timing and patterns, and topics of discussion ("skins", if you will) that enable me to fit in almost anywhere (within my prior experience).
Any super-abilities you might gain from this condition are cold comfort, as they're used more as survival skills to get around the enormous deficits you experience in being able to read people. The money that you earn from your impressive abilities has to be the substitute for having lots of friends who could help you do stuff (e.g. you pay someone to install an super-heavy air conditioner in a second story windows because you don't have many friends you can call on to help you). It's not really a preference for certain kind of social lifestyle, it's a crappy hand of cards you're dealt that you have to make the best of.
Or you can choose to regard it as a challenge to your abilities and will, and solve it. It's up to you.
However, if I had one piece of advice, it's this: don't let it fester. Learn to communicate in whatever way makes you least uncomfortable, because it is nearly meaningless to have the ability to contribute if you can't figure out a way to make a contribution.
None of this was meant to criticize any of what I quoted. I saw an opportunity to use it as a springboard for what I've wanted for some time to write.
... and also what the loudest "WHOOSH" sound ever recorded was.