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Google Terminates Six Services

Jonah Bomber writes with this excerpt from Information Week: "In addition to Google's announcements about the elimination of 100 recruiting positions and the shutdown of offices in Austin, Texas; Trondheim, Norway; and Lulea, Sweden, the company said it would close Dodgeball, Google Catalog Search, Google Mashup Editor, Google Notebook, and Jaiku. It also said it's discontinuing the ability to upload videos to Google Video. ... Jaiku, however, will live on as an open source project. Gundotra said that Google engineers have been porting the microblogging service to Google App Engine and that when the migration is completed, the company plans to make the code available under the Apache license."

39 of 195 comments (clear)

  1. Suggestions for alternative to Google Notebook? by Mathinker · · Score: 2, Funny

    I know about Evernote (from previous postings here), are there others which are worthwhile?

    A pity, as I had wanted to aggregate the exposure of personal info to Google....

    1. Re:Suggestions for alternative to Google Notebook? by darrylo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, I'm a big fan of Evernote, and so I strongly recommend that you check it out, While it's not identical to Google Notebook, the searching and offline capabilities are really nice. The Evernote folks are supposedly working on a Google Notebook to Evernote migration path.

      That said, if you don't like Evernote, I think the closest match to Google Notebook is Zoho Notebook, which is part of the Zoho online suite: http://notebook.zoho.com/ . It even has a Firefox plugin, although I've never used it.

      Also, if you're paranoid about your personal information, Microsoft's OneNote is a decent standalone note-taking program. I don't think there's any web access, but you should be able to access the same notebook files on multiple PCs, via online storage providers like DropBox or JungleDisk.

    2. Re:Suggestions for alternative to Google Notebook? by msuarezalvarez · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The similarity between http://notebook.zoho.com/ and the usual Google login pages is strong enough to qualify as phishing...

  2. Re:Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    You can still use it! See http://googlenotebookblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/stopping-development-on-google-notebook.html "Starting next week, we plan to stop active development on Google Notebook. This means we'll no longer be adding features or offer Notebook for new users. But don't fret, we'll continue to maintain service for those of you who've already signed up."

  3. Highlights one of the problems.. by onion2k · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This just highlights one of the negative aspects of using services out there on the net - if it's not running on your physical hardware it can be closed when the company decides it's not profitable to carry on with it. In the case of these services I doubt there's anyone relying on them to do business, but that definitely isn't the case for things that run in the various compute clouds, or small companies migrating to things like Google Docs, GMail or Google Calendar.

    I wouldn't run anything business critical on something I couldn't replace very easily.

    1. Re:Highlights one of the problems.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I wouldn't run anything business critical on something I couldn't replace very easily.

      Does that actually apply to any of the services you mentioned? GMail provides POP and IMAP access. Calendar exports to .ics, and syncs with various programs. And with Docs, you can quickly download your files as a ZIP full of HTML files.

      Indeed, it would be crazy to use any kind of service (paid or not) for something important and not make your own backups. But Google, at least in recent years, has done a pretty good job of allowing this.

    2. Re:Highlights one of the problems.. by rolfwind · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This just highlights one of the negative aspects of using services out there on the net - if it's not running on your physical hardware it can be closed when the company decides it's not profitable to carry on with it. In the case of these services I doubt there's anyone relying on them to do business, but that definitely isn't the case for things that run in the various compute clouds, or small companies migrating to things like Google Docs, GMail or Google Calendar.

      In the case of gmail and those apps, since it's out for domains that actually pay Google for the service - I suppose the risk isn't as severe at all and I would definitely recommend using Google to host school email (not all business for other reasons) as it can save a lot of money and provide much better end user experience.

      It's about calculated risk and perspective. The specific google services you mentioned are very low risk of being discontinued. The actual ones being discontinued had good reasons: Google Video was redundant with Google owning youtube. Google notebook seems redundant with Google Docs imo. I don't know enough about the others, but they are not in the same league as gmail, which probably is almost as important to google as is its search in some ways.

    3. Re:Highlights one of the problems.. by Aladrin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This isn't unique to 'services on the net'. Services -anywhere- are subject to this. Nothing has changed.

      What you really mean is 'software running on computers you don't control.'

      As as someone already pointed out, this is less of a problem for people who are paying for their service, rather than getting them for free.

      So what you really mean is 'software that you don't pay for, running on computers you don't control.'

      Why is it such a big surprise that it could go away?

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    4. Re:Highlights one of the problems.. by twilson94070 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I just exported the contents of my google notebook to google docs. That oughta do it! :P

      --
      f u cn rd ths u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgmng
    5. Re:Highlights one of the problems.. by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Informative

      "I would definitely recommend using Google to host school email (not all business for other reasons) as it can save a lot of money and provide much better end user experience."

      I would recommend against it, and I would be adamant about it. GMail's service is terrible; every few days, I get IMAP errors, usually along the lines of, "Cannot open mailbox," and occasionally a login failure (despite the fact that my username and password are stored and reused by my email client). School email can require the same level of reliability and availability as business email, at least at the college level: financial aid notices, graduate school applications, job applications, etc. Being unable to access your email can be a serious problem, and frankly, Google's service has not shown itself to be reliable enough for anything beyond irrelevant personal emails.

      There are free-as-in-beer email servers, even for very high volumes of mail, that any competent IT staff could maintain with minimal effort and better reliability than GMail. How much money do you think GMail would save? Is that amount of money actually worth the hassle of dealing with GMail?

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    6. Re:Highlights one of the problems.. by yashachan · · Score: 3, Informative

      So far as I can tell, gmail is more reliable than my university's email.

      Then again, these are the same guys who destroyed one of my professor's laptops when trying to install Visual Studio Pro.

    7. Re:Highlights one of the problems.. by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 3, Funny

      To be fair, my university's IT staff is incompetent. They thought that it was a good idea to set up a firewall to block SSL access to POP3, leave open unencrypted POP3 access, and then actually ADVISE people who had problems with the VPN (which is another disaster born from their incompetence) to just use the unencrypted port. I reported this problem, then reported it again with an explanation of why it is a problem, and they have refused to fix it.

      In my original post, I should have emphasized that any competent IT staff could keep a mail server up and running.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    8. Re:Highlights one of the problems.. by lukas84 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But our Exchange system now is creaking under its own weight, fails to backup shockingly often, and is down more than 99.9% monthly SLA [google.com] that Google Apps offers. Scaling up the Exchange server would require a significant cash outlay, and I'm not convinced it would be any cheaper over the lifetime of the system.

      Let me guess, you're still running Exchange 2003?

    9. Re:Highlights one of the problems.. by stickyc · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Google notebook seems redundant with Google Docs imo.

      I disagree. As a Google Notebook user, I found it very fast and easy to access. The cost (in clicks) of getting into a Google doc and organizing said doc after is much higher than with Notebook, plus there was an integrated FF plugin that made it very useful for clipping pages.

      While Google's statement is "no new development", I think odds are that it will be shuttered completely within 24 months as other notebook services' (Evernote, Zoho) feature sets become compelling enough for existing GNotebook users to migrate, thus lessening the outcry when Google does pull the plug.

      I'm sad that they're closing it down, but if you've got to end a service, this is a good course of action.

    10. Re:Highlights one of the problems.. by yashachan · · Score: 2

      Competence in IT staff would be nice. Then they might also realize that a mail system running on the Linux servers they already have is cheaper than running Exchange.

      My school's IT staff also has problems with secure email access. When we were on Lotus, we had to use the Lotus Notes client or the web-based deal to get a secure connection (if we used something like Thunderbird, our password was sent in a plain text file). They haven't fixed that with Exchange, either; the only secure email access is through Outlook or Outlook Web Access. At least the web-based Lotus Notes wasn't crippled in Firefox/non-IE browser. :\

    11. Re:Highlights one of the problems.. by RudeIota · · Score: 3, Informative

      It always works for me (free gmail service) with IMAP. I've had a couple of issues where I had to "unlock" my account with their captcha verification.

      Of course, when you PAY for the Google Apps service, 99.9% uptime is guaranteed and Gmail isn't 'beta' anymore...

      --
      Fact: Everything I say is fiction.
    12. Re:Highlights one of the problems.. by The+Second+Horseman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      We're doing it for a fraction of that. Probably closer to $30 a year per person. That includes SAN storage, servers (with VMware ESX licenses), some share of our Novell licensing (it's GroupWise on SuSE Linux) a share of the backup cost and the minimal amount of staff time needed to keep it running. $25/month per user would be a massive chunk of our operating budget. Heck, I'd like to have $8.47 per user per month. Even adding things like anti-virus and spam filtering doesn't push us up to $8.47 per person per month.

      Our unplanned outage time approaches 0%, and planned is hours per year (this year, there was a little more - we moved all the mail from a Netware 6.5 cluster setup to virtualized SuSE Linux running on VMware).

      I'm not including the cost of Blackberry support. Partially because individual departments pay for them, rather than central IT.

      I see numbers like this, and it makes me wonder if 1) companies are just doing dumb, wasteful things or 2) Forrester, Gartner, whoever figure out how to come to a pre-determined conclusion.

    13. Re:Highlights one of the problems.. by Nurgled · · Score: 3, Informative

      I gather from Google engineers that this issue is caused by the abuse throttling features of GMail. If there's a botnet hitting Google on your subnet, or if your access patterns seem suspicious (which for me seems to include accessing my account from home, work and phone all by IMAP, but as usual the Googler's couldn't be specific about what triggers it) then they'll block you out until you pass a CAPTCHA.

      It's pretty annoying since you can't exactly send spam over IMAP. I guess the underlying service is what does the checking, and it can't tell the difference between SMTP, IMAP, and calls from the Web UI.

    14. Re:Highlights one of the problems.. by hendridm · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I tested hosting one of my domains e-mail on Google Apps for awhile, and I got similar errors as the parent. It got so frustrating I just transferred the mail to another IMAP host.

      It seems only to happen with accounts hosted by the free Google Apps (@mydomain.com). My Gmail account (@gmail.com) never experienced this problem. Still, it was a pretty lousy demonstration of their Apps services...

  4. Obscure services by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Much of the reason why Google became popular was because of its clean front page. Other search engines like Altavista made you load a pile of superfluous stuff when you just wanted to search. But this has come back to bite Google because unless you hunt them out, you'll never know most of Google's services even exist.

    1. Re:Obscure services by CarpetShark · · Score: 3, Funny

      unless you hunt them out, you'll never know most of Google's services even exist.

      Indeed. And that's a big issue with some of their better services.

      For example, initially, I was really panicking as I read this headline, as I tend to rely on some google services a lot. Thankfully, re-reading showed that they're only cancelling "six" services, not their sex services.

    2. Re:Obscure services by Dionysus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Google services are obscure but the people who want them can and probably will find them, especially if theyre useful.

      How do you look for something you don't even know exists?

      --
      Je ne parle pas francais.
    3. Re:Obscure services by AndreR · · Score: 5, Funny

      How do you look for something you don't even know exists?

      You google it?

    4. Re:Obscure services by wik · · Score: 2, Funny

      Clearly this is a problem that can be fixed with appropriate AdWords

      --
      / \
      \ / ASCII ribbon campaign for peace
      x
      / \
  5. Re:Uploads longer than 10:59? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe nobody cares about your gaming videos? And maybe it is because of junk like that they are closing it down?

  6. Alternatives for Google Notebook? by GraphiteCube · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have quite a number of bookmarks and notes stored in Google Notebook, I wonder if there are similar web-based services available on the net? Actually Google Notebook is very handy, especially when you are not using your computer and want to jot down some notes.

    1. Re:Alternatives for Google Notebook? by darrylo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually Google Notebook is very handy, especially when you are not using your computer and want to jot down some notes.

      If you have an iPhone, Evernote has an app that accesses your online Evernote database.

      I used to use Google notebook, which is still nice, but I've since switched to Evernote. I like Evernote because:

      • Searching is much faster.
      • Works offline.
      • Can sync offline databases between multiple PCs (and Macs!).
      • I can access the same database from any web browser (the data is mirrored on Evernote's servers, as well as your PCs and Macs).
      • Works on the iPhone (but data is stored on Evernote's servers, and not on the iPhone, unless you individually marks notes on the iPhone).
      • It's free for light to moderate usage (you get roughly 40MB of notes per month, free).
      • Because searching is fast, I'm now using it for bookmarks. I've migrated all of my del.icio.us bookmarks into it (along with descriptive web page fragments).
    2. Re:Alternatives for Google Notebook? by Lunatrik · · Score: 2, Informative
  7. Re:Dear asshats @ google: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Shouldn't you be mad at your school district for blocking youtube instead of google for shutting down a redundant video service?

    I just don't see the logic in your rant.

  8. Re:Uploads longer than 10:59? by Stuart+Gibson · · Score: 2, Insightful
    --
    It's all fun and games until a 200' robot dinosaur shows up and trashes Neo-Tokyo... Again
  9. Re:Its first recession. by ionix5891 · · Score: 4, Informative

    some more interesting reading today Why Google Employees Quit

  10. Re:Lame by flooey · · Score: 3, Informative

    Google doesn't promote some of its other services as much as it should. For instance what's the point of buying Orkut and then not promoting it? Unless the whole point was to kill it off for Blogger.

    Are you thinking of some other product? Orkut has been a Google service since the beginning, and is one of the top social networks in the world (though not in the United States).

  11. Re:Uploads longer than 10:59? by grumbel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't know how the web has gotten so centralized.

    Its pretty obvious why it got centralized. End users never had the necessary upstream bandwidth, often weren't even allowed to run their own servers, didn't have machines up 24/7, didn't have the knowledge to build their own webpages, didn't want to spend money to rent their own servers, etc. Add to that, that centralized content specific servers provide much better search and user interface then a random collection of pages on the web and it becomes pretty obvious why the web is the way it is today.

  12. SaaS by kimvette · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is why Software as a Service is never a good idea. You can have a ton of data stored on that service and it can be discontinued at any time. This is why when I do use Google Docs, I have the data backed up on our own site, and this is also why I won't use Microsoft Live! alternatives to Office.

    It is designed to create vendor lock-in. I do not trust the likes of Microsoft to provide a data export option should they decide the service is not working. Thankfully Google has at least up to now been honorable in providing the means to retrieve data even when products have ceased, and provided PLENTY of notice (we knew what, two years ago that Google Video was going to die?) when discontinuation of hosted services were planned.

    In light of this. F/OSS and "shared source" solutions you host yourself (or at least have FULL access to not only the data but also the code) is the best solution, and even proprietary/closed-source shrinkwrap software where you have both the software and the data in-house are the best solutions. Even closed-source software with craptivation, er, activation and per-use license verification schemes are vastly superior because should the vendor die, cracking the checks to continue your right of first sale to use the product can still be exercised in the very worst cases.

    In this case users are fortunate it's Google services because as stated above Google provides plenty of notice and the means to retrieve data - and in the case of some tools have even have open source so you can continue use of the service in your own hosted environment. Don't expect that to be the case with other SaaS solutions when they are terminated.

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  13. Re:Hmm by htnmmo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was recently looking over Google's AdSense revenues and noticed that they were quite low.

    While their own site's earnings have been growing, the earnings of their AdSense publishers has leveled off.

    The cut they take from AdSense revenues has also gotten smaller and smaller. I was wondering if Google might abandon AdSense all together because of it.

    What's probably keeping AdSense alive is the $500 million they keep in the bank because of their net 60 payment terms and because people don't get paid until they reach $100.

    Half a billion dollar hit wouldn't look nice.

    Seems like they're working on improving the results in that area, but these other services just couldn't be monetized properly.

    It's nice though. If Google were to give every service online away for free, it would leave little room for other developers to grab a piece off the (shrinking?) pie.

  14. Right to work by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I teach at a school district where YouTube is blocked.

    If you need YouTube to do your job, and your administrators decline to provide YouTube to instructors, are the private schools hiring? That's the beauty of America: you can choose to work for a different organization that provides the appropriate tools.

  15. Re:Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm not running MS-Windows, you insensitive clod!

  16. Grand Central info by SpammersAreScum · · Score: 2, Informative

    As a GC user, let me take a stab at it.

    Calls to my GC number get forwarded to whatever combination of work, home, and cell numbers I want, based on the calling number (or group I've placed it in). You can designate up to 6 numbers to ring, but each has to have one of those 3 labels, or Gizmo. You can have specific calling numbers ring directly to voicemail or get a "not in service" message.

    I can also temporarily add another number to have calls forwarded to. There's no charge for long-distance forwarding.

    Voicemail can be listened to on the GC website, downloaded, or forwarded via email (as an MP3).

    I can place a call to any number in my GC contacts by clicking its Call button, which rings it as well as the designated phone at my end.

    Invites are apparently still turned off. Sorry.

  17. Re:Hmm by Lord+Flipper · · Score: 2

    How about avoiding all nonsense words, and not only "monetize"?

    Nonsense? Oh, I get it. People should just dumb down, everywhere, like a new lowest common denominator applied to learning or reading? I have a constructive idea: Why don't you buy a fucking dictionary, and read it, rather than brag about your ignorance in public?